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    Thread: Automotive Industry Etymology: "Shooting Brake"

    1. 04-20-2010 10:26 AM #1
      For some reason, this term gets under my skin and I think it is just because I don't understand what these vehicles are exactly, and what they are supposed to represent.

      Various vehicles dubbed as "shooting brakes" seem to vary wildly in side, from compact to mid-side, some have four doors and others two, all are wagons (which isn't reflected by the name at all!)

      So what is it exactly that makes a Shooting Brake? Who coined the term, and why?

      #1


      edit: massive pic


      Modified by Pueblorrado v4.0 at 7:29 AM 4-20-2010


    2. Member username's Avatar
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      04-20-2010 10:28 AM #2
      i always understood it to mean a two door wagon, or two door with long roof. i believe the actual term "shooting brake" goes back to the one off coachbuilding days


      Modified by username at 10:29 AM 4-20-2010

    3. 04-20-2010 10:28 AM #3
      A proper Shooting Brake is a two-door wagon. Term was coined by the british. something about fox hunting.
      "This couldn't possibly break, I'll put it way the **** down there." -every German car engineer.

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      04-20-2010 10:29 AM #4

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      04-20-2010 10:37 AM #5
      Posted this before...

      Basically, it was a Station Wagon/Brake/Estate, usually designed to go out hunting (shooting) in. Originally built from high end cars like Rolls Royce and the like.

      Here's a rare open shooting brake:

      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    6. 04-20-2010 10:43 AM #6
      I tossed "fox and hound" on my google search and found this article:

      Quote, originally posted by NYTimes.com »
      Now there is another niche that seems ready to be tapped: a sleek wagon with two doors and sports-car panache, its image entangled with European aristocracy, fox hunts and baying hounds.

      The car is a shooting brake, which was conceived to take gentlemen on the hunt with their firearms and dogs. While the name has been loosely applied to station wagons in general, the most famous shooting brakes had custom two-door bodies fitted to the chassis of pedigreed cars from the likes of Aston Martin, Bentley, Jaguar and Rolls-Royce.

      Although the shooting brake’s glory days came before World War II, and it has faded from the scene in recent decades, the body style is showing signs of a renaissance as automakers seek to invent (or reinvent) new kinds of vehicles for consumers constantly on the hunt for the next new thing.

      The 2007 Volvo C30, ... the Audi Shooting Brake concept car shown in Tokyo a year ago

      The beat went on at the Geneva auto show in March, where Renault showed its Altica concept car, which it called a “break de chasse,” or station wagon for the hunt.

      In an automotive world of barrier-bending crossover vehicles and imprecise labels, definitions can be fuzzy. But in general, a station wagon (known as an “estate” in England, a “break” in France and a “touring” or “variant” in Germany) is a four-door sedan with a cargo compartment under a squared-off back end. The shooting brake, however, is a luxury coupe with a squared-off back.

      It is not your basic two-door hatchback, a body style with different proportions: the hatchback tends to be squatty, while a shooting brake is sleek and has “a very interesting profile,” in the words of Peter Horbury, executive director of design for North America for the Ford Motor Company.

      “It makes use of the road space it covers a little better than a normal coupe, and also helps the rear person with headroom,” Mr. Horbury added. “Especially in America, every member of the family has their own car. The occasional use of the rear seat means you can do one of these cars,” even if such a wagon lacks the everyday practicality of four doors.

      One famous shooting brake was based on the 1965 Aston Martin DB5. The company’s longtime owner, David Brown, had the factory make the special car for him so he would have a place for his shotguns and dogs. He then had an English coachbuilder, Radford & Company, build a dozen more for customers.

      Over the years, other Aston Martin shooting brakes followed, and in 2004 the Italian designer Nuccio Bertone took a page from the past and made a shooting brake from Aston’s Vanquish supercar for the Geneva auto show [Bertone Jet 2]. Still, there is no sign that Aston Martin is contemplating a revival. [sad day...]

      But other European manufacturers clearly are. The Volvo C30, first glimpsed in concept-car form at the Detroit auto show last January, has four individual seats and a small glass tailgate. The limited luggage space is designed for briefcases, but the rear seats can be folded flat to make more room. More important for the target audience is a powerful audio system.

      “We focused on delivering European utility, but it will go well in Boston, New York or Montreal,” said Simon Lamarre, the studio chief designer for Volvo. “It is an urban shooting brake, not a hatchback. It’s a new car that will give us growth, new customers we didn’t have before: active city people with no kids.”

      There is a precedent at Volvo for the C30: the P1800ES of 1971-73. While the Swedish automaker never called that car a shooting brake when it was new, it neatly fits the description.

      Audi’s Shooting Brake concept has about the same luggage space as a Ferrari F430, and similar ambitions. It’s a sports car with a 250-horsepower engine and interior touches like a short shifter for speedy gear changes...

      There are even precedents from Detroit. General Motors’ sporty two-door Chevrolet Nomad and Pontiac Safari wagons of 1955-57, now prized by collectors, neatly follow the shooting brake formula. G.M. has twice presented latter-day concept versions of the Nomad, in 1999 and 2004, but neither was a serious contender for production.

      The Shooting Brake Makes a Comeback

      Aforementioned Bertone Jet 2 concept developed for Aston Martin:

      Aforementioned Volvo P1800ES (apparently this one belonged to a Playmate):

      And the 2004 Nomad Concept:


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      04-20-2010 11:03 AM #7
      It's a car for driveby shootings.
      Haunted Car Stories MEGA THREAD!!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by JuniperMonkeys
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    8. 04-20-2010 11:06 AM #8
      Quote, originally posted by jeff1234 »
      It's a car for driveby shootings.

      Wrong.


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      04-20-2010 11:10 AM #9
      What I would like to know is why the majority of premium car companies likes to make " shooting brake" concepts if they will not put em into production.

      shooting brake fetish?


    10. 04-20-2010 11:22 AM #10
      Right? It is as if every design team has a raging hard-on for this body style, but the brass thinks there is no market for them so they let their designers have a little fun, then slap them back to reality and tell them to go make something mushy.

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      04-20-2010 11:25 AM #11
      Quote »
      The car is a shooting brake, which was conceived to take gentlemen on the hunt with their firearms and dogs. While the name has been loosely applied to station wagons in general, the most famous shooting brakes had custom two-door bodies fitted to the chassis of pedigreed cars from the likes of Aston Martin, Bentley, Jaguar and Rolls-Royce.

      NYT didn't research it well. Right from the start, shooting brakes had 2 or 4 doors, as a few of the early Rolls Shooting Brakes I posted show. Some of them were even open cars, as the horse drawn "Breaks" they were originally built from were either open or closed: they simply had room for hunters, rifles, and dogs in the back.

      Quote »
      Shooting Break was the original (or more correct) term, but is often changed to Brake. In France these vehicles were referred to as "Break de Chasse," literally, break in the hunt. Brake has become a common term in England for any station wagon or sport ute.

      Shooting Breaks and Estate Wagons were originally different vehicles, horse drawn for specific purposes, but sometimes their uses would be combined into one, often on smaller holdings.

      Most country houses had separate facilities for horses (stables) and vehicles (carriage house). Often you would enter in a circular drive or courtyard, and the carriages were usually on the left and the stables on the right. The carriage house was usually larger and often contained the servant quarters, being less pungent.

      A well equipped country estate had a large number of carriages for work and play, sometimes different vehicles used in different seasons. Thus with high maintenance horses being used for different purposes and vehicles at different times, there were usually many more vehicles than horses.

      Carriages were open and closed, with driver and driven by passenger, seating from two to eight. As these houses were often some miles from a rail or coach depot, the appropriate sized vehicle was sent to fetch them. With entertaining in the country being a big thing, people would bring large trunks for their fine items; note that most carriages did not have baggage areas.

      Baggage would be collected via a hired wagon, one of the utility vehicles, or in finer houses, a special vehicle would be dedicated to that purpose, i.e. an estate wagon. Usually they had fine woodwork but not the lacquered and polished finish of carriages (think 18th-20th century woodie). Houses often had preferred colors for their rolling stock and servant uniforms. For smaller parties or smaller houses, the estate wagon might be used to collect people AND baggage, thus have seats fitted as well. In the US we often called these Depot Hacks (also Station Wagon, Traveler and Wagonette), in Germany Kombi is common, while the more poetic Italians refer to these people wagons as Giardiniera.

      Someone previously dealt with the Shooting Break being a service vehicle used to transport guns, supplies, dogs and refreshments (though I suspect dogs and hor's douvres were not carried together) into the fields . . . thus the Break part of the name. I quote Steve: " Shooting break is a description derived from an old British tradition.

      In the first half of the 20th century shooting parties were a popular pastime on privately owned estates across the UK. Moving these parties around the estate was done in a 'shooting break'. This was normally a large British or American car which had a coachbuilt back half to carry the 'shooters' and their weapons etc. The term break was originally a type of horse drawn carriage."

      Most shooting was for birds (or sometimes hare and varmits), and the shooters would position themselves while waiting for drovers to herd the game to them. It was smaller than the estate wagon, probably because it didn't need to be bigger, and likely to help it navigate off road terrain.

      The uses of these vehicles were intermingled based on size of house and varying needs. I noted a few service vehicles with the crests being attached with screws as opposed to painted on, which suggested to me that they would be hired or borrowed when needed in some instances.

      When motorcars became available, it is obvious that the better houses would carry on this activity, and coachbuilders were kept busy adapting their talents to the differently powered vehicles. Obviously the Rolls, Daimlers and Lagondas were the epitome of the breed, but Rovers, Humbers, even Fords and Austins were adapted.

      My impression is that the difference today between an estate and a brake is usually size and sportiness. Remember that even large cars like the Rolls were well known for heir off road capability, being high torque and with good ground clearance. As two seat sporting cars became popular with the young blades, adding a shooting compartment provided utility and a lifestyle statement. These are sometimes referred to as Sporting Estates.

      Obviously, this has continued to cars like the specially outfitted Astons, Ferraris, Jags, and even coach built Mini Coopers, usually favored by flash young men. I recall a Brit magazine suggesting that the Espada was well adapted to this purpose. I don't think anyone intended shooting brakes to ever go off prepared roads, just carry the sportsmen to and from the shooting areas."

      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    12. Swallow Doretti
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      04-20-2010 11:40 AM #12
      Quote, originally posted by Merc63 »
      NYT didn't research it well. Right from the start, shooting brakes had 2 or 4 doors, as a few of the early Rolls Shooting Brakes I posted show. Some of them were even open cars, as the horse drawn "Breaks" they were originally built from were either open or closed: they simply had room for hunters, rifles, and dogs in the back.

      The article doesn't say that shooting brakes need to be two-doors, just that the most famous ones are, which is true.

      Regardless, the CLS Concept in the OP is most definitely not a shooting brake (or a shooting break), but is merely a traditional station wagon.


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      04-20-2010 11:47 AM #13
      I do not see how the wagons used for fields etc. with dogs and several hunters has anything to do with a two door wagon / sports car; especially the two-seater versions. No wonder there is confusion about this term.

      None-the-less I do love me some Shooting Brakes Maybe even more than the Phaeton.



    14. Swallow Doretti
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      04-20-2010 11:56 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by Grinder »
      I do not see how the wagons used for fields etc. with dogs and several hunters has anything to do with a two door wagon / sports car; especially the two-seater versions. No wonder there is confusion about this term.

      Because the idea of "Shooting Brakes" being a hybrid of a two-door wagon cum sportscar is directly descended from the original shooting brakes, which were wagons used for hunting.

      It's important to remember that shooting brakes predated sportscars by years, since they started as horse-drawn carriages before becoming motorized. Sportscars didn't come into being until around 1912, when Mercer and Stutz began building the Raceabout and the Bearcat, respectively.

      Eventually, these shooting brakes used for hunting evolved into sportier cars more oriented towards marrying performance with versatility, leading us to what we now think of as shooting brakes.


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      04-20-2010 12:24 PM #15
      Quote »
      Brake has become a common term in England for any station wagon or sport ute.

      FALSE.

      The common term for such a vehicle here is an estate car. Only pretentious designers and marketing types would refer to them as shooting breaks today.

      If you were to ask anyone who wasn't either a toff or a petrolhead with a fondness for the more unusual what a shooting break is, they'd be as confused as the OP.


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      04-20-2010 12:28 PM #16
      uber rare 928 SB

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      04-20-2010 12:50 PM #17
      Interesting thread. I guess shooting "break" would help clear things up a little. I'll have an interesting story to tell next time I go fox hunting.

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      04-20-2010 12:54 PM #18



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      04-20-2010 12:59 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by Pueblorrado v4.0 »
      Aforementioned Volvo P1800ES (apparently this one belonged to a Playmate):

      Not just a playmate, she was playmate of the year. The car was one of her prizes. What she had to do to earn that only she and Hef know for sure.

      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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      04-20-2010 01:04 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by fatbaldbloke »
      FALSE.

      The common term for such a vehicle here is an estate car. Only pretentious designers and marketing types would refer to them as shooting breaks today.

      If you were to ask anyone who wasn't either a toff or a petrolhead with a fondness for the more unusual what a shooting break is, they'd be as confused as the OP.

      He said "petrolhead". Now that's British!

      Thank you. The term Shooting Brake has fallen into such disuse on both sides of the pond as to almost be meaningless. That doesn't make me like them any less, though. I have a friend with a P1800ES and I absolutely love it. If I didn't have so many other projects and so little time, I'd pick it up off of him.

      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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      04-20-2010 02:46 PM #21
      On my drive home from work this evening (in a ratty old diesel Mondeo estate) I was discussing this with my colleague (being a petrolhead is a requiremnet of employment where I am) and we think we've cracked it.

      A mass produced 'station wagon' like mine is an estate. Something that started life as a saloon (sorry, sedan) or coupe and is converted by a coachbuilder is a shooting break/brake. Pre-war the only things that we had that were like station wagons were coachbuilt and usually woodies, like the Rolls Royce someone posted.

      Anyway, a couple of modern shooting brakes

      I'm not really a Jag man, but I've always liked these...

      I would very much like to meet whoever's responsible for this and shake them firmly by the throat.


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      04-20-2010 02:54 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by fatbaldbloke »

      FALSE.

      The common term for such a vehicle here is an estate car. Only pretentious designers and marketing types would refer to them as shooting breaks today.

      If you were to ask anyone who wasn't either a toff or a petrolhead with a fondness for the more unusual what a shooting break is, they'd be as confused as the OP.

      The quote I posted came from England.

      And I really like the Lynx version of the XJS. I like it better than the stock version, in fact.


      Modified by Merc63 at 11:57 AM 4-20-2010

      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

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      04-20-2010 03:11 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by Air and water do mix »

      Not just a playmate, she was playmate of the year. The car was one of her prizes. What she had to do to earn that only she and Hef know for sure.


      Month and Year please so I can do further research.

      The W123 Mercedes, most notably the 240D, is an excellent model of automotive perfection!

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      04-20-2010 03:11 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by Merc63 »
      The quote I posted came from England.

      Reading the language used, I'd have said it was more likely to be Australian. 'Sport ute' is very Australian and the last paragraph refers to a 'Brit magazine'.

      I know you guys sometimes have trouble telling a British accent from an Australian one, but come on.


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      04-20-2010 03:24 PM #25
      Well, the website was British. But, it also referenced a writer from another source who was giving a background on the Lamborghini Espada, so while the site is British, the person internally quoted may have been Aussie. No info on that is available.

      Most of the quote is discussing British history, not Aussie or US.

      Quote »
      I quote Steve: " Shooting break is a description derived from an old British tradition.

      In the first half of the 20th century shooting parties were a popular pastime on privately owned estates across the UK. Moving these parties around the estate was done in a 'shooting break'. This was normally a large British or American car which had a coachbuilt back half to carry the 'shooters' and their weapons etc. The term break was originally a type of horse drawn carriage."

      I can't get to the site here at work. I had copied this at home and sent it in text form a number of months ago when this first came up.

      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    26. 04-20-2010 03:34 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by Air and water do mix »

      . What she had to do to earn that only she and Hef know for sure.

      Hairy ATM?


    27. 04-21-2010 02:16 AM #27
      Quote, originally posted by winstonsmith84 »

      Hairy ATM?


      undoubtedly.

    28. 04-21-2010 03:26 AM #28
      dont forget the M coupe!!!

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      04-21-2010 08:54 AM #29
      Quote, originally posted by fatbaldbloke »

      A mass produced 'station wagon' like mine is an estate. Something that started life as a saloon (sorry, sedan) or coupe and is converted by a coach builder is a shooting break/brake.

      ^^^ YES ^^^^


      More proper shooting brakes:



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      04-21-2010 11:31 AM #30
      Quote, originally posted by Pueblorrado v4.0 »

      Aforementioned Volvo P1800ES (apparently this one belonged to a Playmate):

      Marilyn Cole '73. Her classic line upon receiving the car:

      Quote, originally posted by Hemmings »
      The Volvo 1800 ES above, however, was given to a Playmate of the Year, Marilyn Cole, in 1973.

      “Now that I’ve been given this lovely Volvo sports car, I guess I’ll have to learn to drive,” the London-based playmate said when she received the car. “In London, I’ve never had the need to, but it will be fun to have my own car and motor out into the countryside.”


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      04-21-2010 11:44 AM #31

      Wish that audi made this.

      XBL: Skip Fourplay

      GO SHARKS!!!

    32. 04-21-2010 12:08 PM #32
      Almost everything in this thread is catastrophically ugly.

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      04-21-2010 12:11 PM #33
      Quote, originally posted by VR6GTI72 »

      Wish that audi made this.

      Didn't need to. Vw already did



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      04-21-2010 01:47 PM #34
      It is damn near the same car, but I like the wheel arches better on the audi and the AWD thing isnt bad either. So they dont consider the scirocco a shooting brake but that audi concept is?
      XBL: Skip Fourplay

      GO SHARKS!!!

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      04-21-2010 02:26 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by mitch hedberg
      My manager was concerned, he said "Mitch, don't use liquor as a crutch." I can't use liquor as a crutch... because a crutch helps me walk. Liquor severely screws up the way I walk.

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