ban religion from everyday life...

[DUTCHMANia]

I would love to live in a world... or even just a country where religion was banned from everyday life.

No religion in politics, no religion on TV, no religious expressions in public offices...

wouldn't the world just be a wonderfull place?

keep your religion to yourself and enjoy it in your church/temple/mosque with other believers..

[Silly_me]

I don't think it could happen, it is just too much a part of who that person is. Of course we could always introduce people to the teachings of Dr Walter Freeman

tap tap tap tap tap

[DUTCHMANia]

i bet it could be done upto a point.. France doesn't allow any form of religion in their public offices or schools... no cross-signs, no headscarfs nothing.. and it seems to work.

I bet if i was allowed to start my own country on some island somewhere and i wanted it to be completely religion free i would have millions of inhabitants within days.. and be bombed by some other country the day after...

[Time for a GTI]

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

I would love to live in a world... or even just a country where religion was banned from everyday life. No religion in politics, no religion on TV, no religious expressions in public offices... wouldn't the world just be a wonderfull place? keep your religion to yourself and enjoy it in your church/temple/mosque with other believers..

Is that you John Lennon? I thought you were dead?

Kidding aside, I agree 100%. How many people have died in the name of someone's god?

[DUTCHMANia]

Quote, originally posted by Time for a GTI »

I thought you were dead?

i am.. almost... i bet JIMP i tracking my IP as i type this..

[petesell]

i'd be satisfied if we could just return this country to a secular government, as the establishment clause dictates. while ridding the world of religious dogma is a worthwhile long term goal, for now we can only hope to take baby steps

[thepirate]

^^Didn't the founders come to America to have freedom of religion? Meaning we as Americans can practice religion and be able to wear our faith on our sleeve?

I'm not trying to start a big argument here but people should be aloud to pray when they want and proclaim whatever religion they want.

America is a free country. If you don't want religion so be it, why be a cry baby? Move to France if its so awesome...

[Time for a GTI]

Quote, originally posted by thepirate »

^^Didn't the founders come to America to have freedom of religion? Meaning we as Americans can practice religion and be able to wear our faith on our sleeve? I'm not trying to start a big argument here but people should be aloud to pray when they want and proclaim whatever religion they want. America is a free country. If you don't want religion so be it, why be a cry baby? Move to France if its so awesome...

While everyone should have the right to practice their own particular brand of religion it should be in private (home, church, mosque,etc.). It has no place in public life as it relates to education or government.

One of the major law systems in the world is based on the Koran which I feel is absolutely absurd.

Also, basing how we run our society based on something that happened 500 years ago is also a little absurd. We have to evolve as a society, not look back and cling to antiquated systems of governing.

[abawp]

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

I would love to live in a world... or even just a country where religion was banned from everyday life.

I wouldn't. Don't think this has much merit over in Europe, but we are all equally free or we're not. Not trying to play the paranoid Republican here, but history has taught us that once you start restricting some freedoms here and there you start to open avenues to restrict and control further, leading to persecution or worse!

I say we let the religion stay so long as we get the "PC" crap removed from everyday life. Common decency is one thing, but being "PC" is just stupid.

[DUTCHMANia]

Quote, originally posted by thepirate »

I'm not trying to start a big argument here

i am

I said nothing about practice or believe in general...

Hell the catloic faith was banned for 300 years in Holland, yet every city had a church.

i'm not advocating wearing yellow stars or pink triangles, But i simply feel i don't need to be exposed to something i dislike everytime i leave my house. I can't go to a hotel without finding a bible, i can't watch the news without some ****head trying to pass a bill against riding bicycles on sunday.

If living free means living the way you want to live.. why impose stuff on others?

And i don't want to move to France.. i live only 300KM away anyways plus there's french people living there....

[thepirate]

haha Okay well I guess things are different over there, the only time you hear about religious stuff in the news over here is when a catholic priest touches some kid.

Those bibles in hotels are in the dresser drawers not out in the open if you find one you must be looking for it

[BarryV]

Quote, originally posted by thepirate »

America is a free country.

Freedom is only an interepation of what used to be....

I do not like the direction this country is heading, and at the same time, I feel like "Who am I, one little pissant citizen on the pole to stand up and say ENOUGH!"


Modified by GotMyDub at 8:43 AM 4-30-2010

[Jesus is my pilot]

Rather than pointing and laughing at the profound ignorance of Dutchmania I'm going to try and offer some constructive dialogue... I have little hope that anything good can come of this but God is able to work all things for His glory...

Let's start here... what is religion?

Also, just so you know, I'm going to commit to praying for everyone here that has apparent anger towards people of faith... this anger is very apparent and telling.

Many blessings,
JIMP

[petesell]

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

Let's start here... what is religion?

very profound question my son.

to really answer this you have to go back long, long ago - to the time of jesus and the dinosaurs

[Jesus is my pilot]

O I C, you aren't interested in discussion... you just want to whine about how mommy and step-daddy forced you to go to church and now you're all angsty about it.

It's ok, I promise to pray for you too Pete.

Blessings,
JIMP

[jettafan[atic]]

I think everyone should have the freedom to practice whatever belief system they choose. What I don't support is imposing your beliefs on others. I don't think there should be any laws based on religious pretext. Such as how the fight against gay marriage uses the bible as part of their argument.

[abawp]

In the interest of discussion...

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

Let's start here... what is religion?

Religion is nothing more than a school of thought if you think about it. It can be a theistic, polytheistic, or nontheistic belief. If Dutch wants to remove religion from everyday life, then he and everyone else must remove atheism and Darwinism as well.

[DUTCHMANia]

wait.. so Darwinism is a school of thought now? nice...

And yes, getting JIMP into this thread was the main reason for me starting it.

I really don't get you. What do you get EXTRA out of your faith by proclaiming it in every single post you make?
If you found your lord i'm very happy for you. Just don't tell me about it 24/7 unless the discussion leads that way. (so yes, this discussion is about exactly that)

Faith to me is something really personal. If you follow a certain believe i understand that influences your decisionmaking. But why does it also have to influence the decisionmaking of others?

I don't need your blessings. I think alot of people you respond to don't need them.
If you respond to some atheist post with "I will pray for you" you KNOW the OP won't appreciate it. Do you do it just to spite them?? and if so, wouldn't that go against your believes in the first place?
If you actually pray for those disbelievers at night, for god to save them, you have every right to do so.
But the moment you tell me you're praying for me i get angry. Is that what you want to achieve? Is that what the all forgiving god is telling you to tell me?

To me personally, i really don't care what you believe in, or what you do in private, But the moment you're telling me you're praying for me is the same as me telling you that i hope you burn in hell.
You might feel that way, you can even actually do it, and aslong as i don't know about it i would never tell you not to it...

the whole "live and let live" saying was certainly never thought of by a religious person. eventhough they sure like to quote it.

[abawp]

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

wait.. so Darwinism is a school of thought now? nice...

The point is that if you don't want theistic religions shoved down your throat, then we should do away evolutionary theory in the spirit of equality. Either we are all equal in our rights to freedom and happiness or we're not, selective freedoms don't work.

[DUTCHMANia]

i think teaching facts in schools is no more then fair.
To most teaching Darwin is like teaching 1+1=2

how-ever by having religious freedom i think you should be able to have schools that follow the views from that religion, so i'll compromise on that untill i have my own country.

So instead of saying "i don't believe in that, you can't teach that anywhere" you could simply say "i don't believe in that, i'll start a school that teaches my own believes"

see how that works differently.

[abawp]

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

i think teaching facts in schools is no more then fair. To most teaching Darwin is like teaching 1+1=2

It's a pretty stout theory, and one that I personally choose to follow. However, I don't believe that Darwinian theory is any more "provable" and factual than following a theistical approach. One just has more supporting evidence over the other.

Quote »

how-ever by having religious freedom i think you should be able to have schools that follow the views from that religion...

I completely agree with this. At least give people the choice to teach children one religion over another, and make it so they can easily choose (financially). I do feel that the other side of the camp should be touched on in as unbiased of a manner as possible. No opinions from the teacher, just straight from the literature as one can get. Dismissing one particular view for another doesn't make that view any better than what they're trying to put down IMO.

[T.D.B.]

I'm ALL for it, but sadly it won't happen in this century

for you

[DUTCHMANia]

Quote, originally posted by abawp »

I completely agree with this. At least give people the choice to teach children one religion over another, and make it so they can easily choose (financially).

we've had this for over 60 years now in this country... Basicly, if you teach to a standard that is high enough to prepare kids for the follow-up education and you can find enough people to join your school, you can start one and the government pays for it.
This is our current "freedom of religion" strategy as we live in a country that has so many different views. If you take into account what education per kid would cost, and simply supply the school this amount for every student it's one of the most equal systems possible.

[jettafan[atic]]

There's a lot of anger towards theists from atheists and I think it's counterproductive if not downright hypocritical. I know I'm guilty of it from time to time but if we're asking for religion to not be shoved down our throats then theists deserve to not have us push our beliefs so aggressively.

Live and let live If you don't push your views on me I won't push mine on you.

[-Khaos-]

hmmm... I agree, though I'm surprised the whole "communist" and "look at all the evils that atheism has brought us!" hasn't been pushed more in this thread.

[Jesus is my pilot]

First, sorry for the delay in responding... I've been busy forcing my religion on other by building houses for poor people and stuff... shame on me!

Second, thanks Abawp for your take on religion. It hits the issue spot on and highlights the absurdity of banning religion. Dutch, I hope for your sake you understand that your progressive-secular-humanism is as much a religion as my Christianity.

Now to some of your questions...

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

And yes, getting JIMP into this thread was the main reason for me starting it.

I'm glad you care.

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

I really don't get you. What do you get EXTRA out of your faith by proclaiming it in every single post you make?

Yes

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

If you found your lord i'm very happy for you. Just don't tell me about it 24/7 unless the discussion leads that way. (so yes, this discussion is about exactly that)

But it's ok for you to push your views?

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

Faith to me is something really personal. If you follow a certain believe i understand that influences your decisionmaking. But why does it also have to influence the decisionmaking of others?

If one did not believe their view was superior why hold that view?

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

I don't need your blessings.

It's not me who blesses... but I wasn't aware you were a masochist. I'll keep this in mind when I pray for you.

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

I think alot of people you respond to don't need them.

And there are a lot of people that do. I've received many IM's over the years thanking me and asking me to pray for specific issues. I've even received requests from people that claim they are atheists but are hurting and need something... I'll certainly pray for the persons salvation but I'm more than happy to pray that people just have something positive happen to them. God answers all prayers and I'm blessed to see Him work in all people's lives... even if they don't appreciate it.

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

If you respond to some atheist post with "I will pray for you" you KNOW the OP won't appreciate it. Do you do it just to spite them?? and if so, wouldn't that go against your believes in the first place?

I don't pray to spite. I don't always like the person I pray for but I truly want them blessed.

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

If you actually pray for those disbelievers at night, for god to save them, you have every right to do so. But the moment you tell me you're praying for me i get angry. Is that what you want to achieve? Is that what the all forgiving god is telling you to tell me?

Your anger is on you and is reflective of the issues you have. If you get angry when a person hopes you have a nice day than you should take some time and think about what's wrong with you that makes you feel that way.

Quote, originally posted by DUTCHMANia »

To me personally, i really don't care what you believe in, or what you do in private, But the moment you're telling me you're praying for me is the same as me telling you that i hope you burn in hell. You might feel that way, you can even actually do it, and aslong as i don't know about it i would never tell you not to it...

Fortunately your distorted view of what I'm saying does not impact the fact that I hope and pray that God blesses you with good things. I don't want you to burn in Hell, I want you to love God and enjoy Him forever. Wanting me to burn in Hell is negative and is, again, reflective of some issues you seem to have. Perhaps you should evaluate the base of these apparent emotional issues.

It is my ernest hope and prayer that you have a blessed day,
JIMP

[DUTCHMANia]

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

Yes

that's not an answer to that question

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

But it's ok for you to push your views?

do i push my views in every topic i enter?

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

If one did not believe their view was superior why hold that view?

Again, not an answer to my question... i understand you believe your faith is superior, the question is, why try to push it on others?

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

It's not me who blesses... but I wasn't aware you were a masochist. I'll keep this in mind when I pray for you.

please don't, as spiting me wasn't your objective

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

And there are a lot of people that do. I've received many IM's over the years thanking me and asking me to pray for specific issues. I've even received requests from people that claim they are atheists but are hurting and need something... I'll certainly pray for the persons salvation but I'm more than happy to pray that people just have something positive happen to them. God answers all prayers and I'm blessed to see Him work in all people's lives... even if they don't appreciate it.

please reserve your prayers for the appreciating people then.
god must be really busy helping people that don't need help

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

I don't pray to spite. I don't always like the person I pray for but I truly want them blessed.

so praying for people that don't appreciate it is not spiting them?

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

Your anger is on you and is reflective of the issues you have. If you get angry when a person hopes you have a nice day than you should take some time and think about what's wrong with you that makes you feel that way.

I have never in my life gotten angry wih a person that wished me a good day. a person however that claims that god or TFSM will influence me during that day after his prayers is not being taken serious by me.

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

Fortunately your distorted view of what I'm saying does not impact the fact that I hope and pray that God blesses you with good things. I don't want you to burn in Hell, I want you to love God and enjoy Him forever. Wanting me to burn in Hell is negative and is, again, reflective of some issues you seem to have. Perhaps you should evaluate the base of these apparent emotional issues.

I will call my shrink... maybe it's underlying issues from a priest touching me in the no no area..

Quote, originally posted by Jesus is my pilot »

It is my ernest hope and prayer that you have a blessed day, JIMP

enjoy your day would have been earnest and much appreciated..

have a good day.


Modified by DUTCHMANia at 11:09 PM 5-4-2010

[petesell]

Dutch, I hope for your sake you understand that your progressive-secular-humanism is as much a religion as my Christianity.

hopefully no one understands that because it's plain wrong.
i guess no real surprise that those who 'promote' religion so vigorously are the same ones unable to grasp even a fundamental definition.

[Jesus is my pilot]

i understand you believe your faith is superior, the question is, why try to push it on others?

Why not? If you knew of a way to save people from certain destruction wouldn't you want to help them?

Beyond that, you'll need to be more specific in what "pushing" you object to.

Pete, perhaps you could explain what the material differences are...

Blessings,
JIMP

[-Khaos-]

did atheism thread died?

[DUTCHMANia]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...t-Hit-By-a-Car

[Jesus is my pilot]

I'm sorry to say this Dutch, but the only thing this thread proves is that you are an intolerant bigot You should allow it to slip off the first page.

When you're ready to man up and have a conversation please let me know.

Blessings,
JIMP

[patrikman]

Blessings,

[IHateSpeedBumps]

Why not? If you knew of a way to save people from certain destruction wouldn't you want to help them?

What destruction are you speaking of?

If you are talking about eternal damnation, its all part of YOUR fantasy and not the real world. So you are PUSHING your religion on people

[Jesus is my pilot]

Why not? If you knew of a way to save people from certain destruction wouldn't you want to help them?

What destruction are you speaking of?

If you are talking about eternal damnation, its all part of YOUR fantasy and not the real world. So you are PUSHING your religion on people

Delusional or not, I, and billions of people that have lived and died, believe in Heaven and Hell. We believe in God, we believe in salvation, we believe that God wants us to tell people about the salvation only He can offer... in light of this, it may be somewhat reasonable to claim that we are all delusional but it is unreasonable to ask us not to tell anyone about it.

Besides, last time I checked you were still free to believe what you wanted to... so I'm not sure what "pushing" you're whining about. Perhaps you can write a nasty letter to kotex for "pushing" their tampon adds on you as well. I pray you are healed of whatever angst possesses you.

Blessings,
JIMP