Holset user thread

[Daskoupe]

changes coming

[Quintin@USRT]

mine should be going on soon .... HX35

[ade007]

holset hx35 12cm hotside
12v vr6 8.5.1 compression
megasquirt

1psi around 2500 on data logs
22psi at 3900 rpm

hp calculated with injector duty cyle @ 420whp

[Kaos26003]

Just getting ready to do this also. will give dyno numbers in a few wks.
99 passat
motor
99 AEB 1.8t block
JE 82mm slugs
IE rods
034 Bearings
034 Crank Girdle
AEB head P&P 3angle Valve job
Cat Cams 3658's
SPA top mount manifold
Tial 38mm WG
Holset HX-35
custom 034 3" DP(waiting for this)
Me-7 conversion
Custom Unitronics BT software

Talked to the boys from Unitronics over the weekend at SOWO, Looking like a Me-7 was the only easy way to get a good tune. gonna start out with a 830cc file and go from there. i'll keep updating as i install and start to get numbers and spool rpms.
KAOS

[Daskoupe]

mine should be going on soon .... HX35

Q man what are the specs on it?I wanna get an HX35 for mine...

[Quintin@USRT]

Q man what are the specs on it?I wanna get an HX35 for mine...

Compressor Wheel:

Inducer: 56mm
Exducer: 78mm


Turbine wheel:

Inducer: 70mm
Exducer: 60mm


comes with a twin scroll 12cm^2 t3 turbine housing...i just knife edged the divider since my manifold is for an open scroll...you can get a BEP .70a/r t3 open scroll housing for it however....

[acee_dub]

Are any of you using the oil filter housing for turbo oil feed?
What psi does the oil run at from the top of oil filter housing?

Holset oiling (HX30/HX32/HX35/HX40) (from holset site):

12. Oil pressure of 150 kPa (20 lbf/in2) must show at the oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to turbocharger bearing system. A flexible supply pipe is recommended.

13. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).

min 10psi @ idle, min 30psi @ load / max 72psi @ load

[Boost112]

anyone running or can give the spool characteristic of a hx40 on a 12valve.... om been keeping an eye out for onw locally and wanted some feed back....tia.....

[Nasty Vr6]

Ya I have been looking into doing a holset hx35 on my 12v. They sell brand new off of eBay for 300 bucks, not bad at all

[Quintin@USRT]

they aren't real holsets on ebay.

[Daskoupe]

i'm looking hard!!!!


keep this thread alive!

[Nasty Vr6]

they aren't real holsets on ebay.

Where can I get a 'real' holset from then?

[wabbitGTl]

i picked on up from craigslist for less than $400 for a turbo with less than 10 hours of use. they're out there, you just have to be patient if you want a good deal.

[Nasty Vr6]

Ya, and they bolt right up to a t3 flange. I heard from someone that you have to weild the waste gate shut in them? Or something like that?

[acee_dub]

If you have an HX35W (hx35 with internal wastegate) you have to weld the wastegate shut and run external (the stock internal wastegate is 25 psi i believe)

[Boost112]

Anyone running or can give the spool characteristic of a hx40 on a 12valve? please?

[Quintin@USRT]

If you have an HX35W (hx35 with internal wastegate) you have to weld the wastegate shut and run external (the stock internal wastegate is 25 psi i believe)

low boost....


the main problem is the port is only on one side of the divided housing and is too small to prevent boost creep.

[wabbitGTl]

low boost....


the main problem is the port is only on one side of the divided housing and is too small to prevent boost creep.

i'm glad someone chimed in on that. i was hoping the internal would work. guess i'll add a wastegate to my list

[D3hd3nd]

for anyone looking for a hx35 i have one that i was going to go BT with but tickets are keeping me from finishing it... no shaft play, 12cm housing, 8 blades, 300 + paypal fees shipped

made for external wastegate

[Quintin@USRT]

for anyone looking for a hx35 i have one that i was going to go BT with but tickets are keeping me from finishing it... no shaft play, 12cm housing, 8 blades, 300 + paypal fees shipped

made for external wastegate

pm Daskoupe!!

[Daskoupe]

Thread is getting cleaned up.New chit chat thread being made

[Quintin@USRT]

What u talking bout Das?? Why?

[TBT-Syncro]

Why?

thats what i was thinking.

no idea why we need brand specific 'chit chat' threads on here.

[Dave926]

We need an info thread only type of deal, with setups etc to prevent excess questions like "Where do i buy one?" or "What is the spool?"

Straight info here thats all please

[Dave926]

Summary provided by wiseman, DSM-onster

HX35:

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

HY35:

The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

H1C/WH1C:

In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

HX35-40 hybrid:

Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

HX40:

The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

H1E/WH1E:

The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

HX52:

This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

Misc.:

* Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.

* The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.

* Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.

* They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.

* There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.

* The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.

wiseman, DSM-onster via dsmtuners.com

Straight from the holset hx repair manual .pdf:

8. Normal oil temperature is 95+/-5°C (203+/-9° F). It should not exceed 120°C (248°F) under any operating condition.

9. Any pre-lube oil must be clean and meet the minimum CD classification.

10. The orientation of turbine housing, bearing housing and compressor cover is fixed according to application. During installation, do not attempt to rotate these components. Inclined turbocharger installation is not recommended. If an installed angle is necessary, oil inlet centreline must be +/- 10 degrees from vertical and rotor centreline +/- 5 degrees from horizontal.

11. Holset permits oil return pipes to decline at an overall angle of not less than 30 degrees below horizontal.All turbocharger applications require a pipe of internal diameter greater than 19 mm which has integrated connectors. To ensure oil returns into the engine under all operating conditions, the return connection into the engine sump must not be submerged and the outlet flange of the turbocharger must be 50 mm above the maximum oil level of the engine sump pan. Crankcase pressure should be limited ideally to 0.8 kPa (0.12 lbf/in2) but 1.4 kPa (0.20 lbf/in2) can be accepted by reference to Holset.

12. Oil pressure of 150 kPa (20 lbf/in2) must show at the oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to turbocharger bearing system. A flexible supply pipe is recommended.

13. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2).

14. Recommended oil flows for the turbochargers are 2 litre/min at idle and 3 litre/min above maximum torque speed.


Oil feed for Holsets are m12 x 1.5. I would suggest the use of either a copper washer or an o-ring like the stock feed

Places to purchase the oil feed adapter:
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/cust...at=1007&page=2
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-9919BFGERL/
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=5054 ------ for a -3an line/adapter
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pro...asp?RecID=5055

Oil drain flange for the holsets is a t3 style flange, though bigger turbos may differ

[Dave926]

Places to purchase Holsets, besides ebay and cummins website. Info provided by dsmtuners.com

High Tech Turbo
(801)304-0700
http://www.htturbo.com/

Turbotrader
http://www.theturbotrader.com/...49_22 (link needs updated)

Goldfarb & Assoc. (Ebay:Saulg)
(301)770-4514
http://www.goldfarbinc.com/

Tim's Turbos
(866)388-7267)
www.timsturbos.com

Bullseye Power Turbos
(231)571-8424
http://www.bullseyepower.com/u_eclipse.asp

[Dave926]

Maps:
1. HX-35/HY35-HE341/HE351 map: provided by myself per Cummins contact
2. HX-40 map: provided by our friends at Honda-Tech per Holset
3. HX-40 map: provided by our friends at Honda-Tech per Holset
4. HX-40 map: provided by our friends at Honda-Tech per Holset
5. HX40/Super40/HX-52 map: provided by dsm-onster per Holset
6. H1E map: provided by dsm-onster per Holset
7. H1E map: provided by (edit in process)
8. H2C map: provided by dsm-onster per (edit in process)
9. H2E map: provided by (edit in process)
10. H2E map provided by dsm-onster per (edit in process)

[Dave926]

1. HX30 map: provided by ( ??? ) per Holset
2. HE351VGT map: provided by Aero Sallee & friends at Turboford.com per Holset




As you can see the flow axis (X- axis) is disguised as mass X SQRT( T/p). It needs to be converted. We see the same mass flow perameter on the hx30e-7765AX compressor map AND see a conversion on top to lb/min.

So to convert to 58lb/min from the mass perameter 76.5: 76.5 X 58/76.5 = 58 or 76.5 X .758 = 58lb/min. Also we see the same suffix 7765AX for this hx30e map. Also this map looks nearly the same shape as the map plotted by Morphius but with less rpm lines. Thus both maps are the HY35 map and the hy35 compressor flows 58lb/min at 60% efficiency. The 7blade hx35 compressor is identical to the hy35 compressor. Therefore the 7blade hx35 flows 58lb/min at 60% efficiency.

So. . .

8blade hx35 = 52-54lb/min.
7blade hx35 = 58-60lb/min
8blade hx40 = 60-62lb/min
Super40 or hx40 pro = 68-71lb/min.

[Dave926]

from biglady112 on dsm tuners. Remember this is a 4g63, so its probably gonna spool a bit slower on a VW of similar displacement.

Dsmlink
HX-52
Eagle/Wiesco 2.0L
Crower 414's
Stock intake manifold
7" tall air/air intercooler
Revhard exhuast manifold

This doesnt show hp, but the car made a max of 530whp. This is just to illustrate manifold pressure vs rpm

[Dave926]

if you are curious about the physical size of the holsets

[Dave926]

taken from http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/for...p?topic=1780.0

hx52 dyno


9:1 CR
ACL bearings
84mm cp pistons/rings
GE HG
2.0L Bensen sleeved GSR block
Purple EG ect. ect.
skunk2 pro1 cams
HOPEFULLY ported head with ferrea valves supertech springs/retainers

i know its a honda, yet again 2.0l of displacement. Spool on a 4 cyl vw should be close, if not a bit more. That is unless you have a hogged out big port 20v head


some rough measurements of the turbo as well



EDIT: After going through this thread im not sure if the dyno is from a the hx52 or 55

EDIT: HERE IS THE VID TO THIS CAR


Im not much of a vr6 person but the hx52 sounds like its splitting the air apart

[Dave926]

and here is a thread i found on http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turb...too-small.html that may interest all of you that are concerned about restrictors, or not running one for that matter. The drain may be the bigger issue here, not the feed.

Here is the thread for quick reference:

Garrett & Holset Turbo Users - Your Oil Drain May Be Too Small!

Yet another possible lead on why some Garrett and Holset turbos just don't hold up on certain cars. I'm hoping to one day get to the bottom of this mystery once and for all.

I've been noticing a strange trend among commonly-used oil drains for our cars. Read through the thread and give me your opinion at the end.

First up, the 1G oil drain. This drain is intended to be used on 1G DSM's using a TD05H turbo, which is fed from the head with a restrictor built into the banjo fitting at the turbo. It measures somewhere around 5/8" O.D. (.572" I.D.), and works great for the turbo in which it's designed.




Next, the 2G oil drain. This drain is all aluminum, VERY lightweight, and designed for use on the 2G DSM's using a T25, which is fed from the filter housing unrestricted with a piece of 1/4" tubing. Obviously it will be bigger to support the additional oil flow of the T25....it measures somewhere around 3/4" O.D. (.663" I.D.), and also works great for the turbo in which it's designed.



Now on to the puzzling part.

Most Garrett T3 / Holset oil drain adapters are set up to allow a piece of 5/8" hose to slide over a barbed end of the fitting and be clamped, or they use a threaded adapter to allow push-lock or Army Navy fittings to connect the drain flange to the oil pan.

It's no secret the Garrett and Holset CHRA's require more oil- hell the oil drain hole in the bottom of the Holset center housing is almost 7/8" I.D., and the Garrett center housing has a very large drain hole as well....so why are the holes in all of the T3 / Holset oil drain adapters TINY?



from turbodsm18
10an drain flange bought from extreme psi......Restriction???



something interesting posted from bluegs3
Since hearing about this ive been doing some research, ive talked to a few people who have had there holsets running for a while and been pushing 400+ hp. There is one common thread between all of em that i have found. They have all made there own oil drain's. Each of them has been equal or greater in size that 19mm inside diameter drains. ive only talked to 2 holset users but both of them have been running 4000+ miles no problem on their custom drains.

Now here is a conversion chart stolen shameless from Summit racing
http://www.summitracing.com/streetandstrip/tech_content.asp?ID={56AF17E7-5FE2-4977-8013-42508F100FFF}

Hose and Fitting Tips
1. You've probably heard this one before, but AN stands for Army-Navy. Established many years ago by the U.S. military as a common measurement for hose and fittings, it designates the outside diameter (o.d.) of the rigid metal tube that is compatible with each size fitting. These dash sizes are expressed as the numerator of the fraction, with the denominator always being 16. For example, a –04 port is 4/16, or 1/4 inch.

Here a list of common AN to fractional equivalents:
-02 AN = 1/8 inch
-03 AN = 3/16 inch
-04 AN = 1/4 inch
-05 AN = 5/16 inch
-06 AN = 3/8 inch
-08 AN = 1/2 inch
-10 AN = 5/8 inch
-12 AN = 3/4 inch
-14 AN = 7/8 inch
-16 AN = 1 inch
-20 AN = 1 1/4 inches
-24 AN = 1 1/2 inches
-32 AN = 2 inches


jusmx141 pointed out that the diameter for the holset center cartage is 7/8th diameter. He also pointed out from the holset manual that the oil drain has a minimum of 19mm.

So looking at this chart the 14an fitting has a diameter of 7/8ths (equal to the holset center cartage hole) which is equal to 22.2250mm.
Now i bet your asking why not 12AN it has a diameter of 3/4ths inch which is equal to 19mm?? What are you smoking?? Well looking at the paragraph above you can see that this is the OUTSIDE diameter of the hose not the inside diameter, which makes 14an have the necessary inside diameter that we need in order to run 19mm inside diameter hose.

Obviously no one sells a 14an kit for the dsm... bummer, so that means for my holset oil drain setup im gonna have to make it! I plan on getting some 1/4th inch aluminum and making my own flanges buying 3/4th inch id fittings along with 3/4 id silicon hoses. Then im gonna tap the aluminum with threads for the fittings and put some worm clamps on it and hope it holds!

This leaves only one problem the stock oil return is way to small so what im hoping to do is enlarge it to 19mm and try and make it work. if not then i can create a block off flange and drill my own hole.


Cliff notes 14an is the way to go, but you have to create your own kit...

[Boost112]

...amazing amount of info here.... thank you very much...

[Dave926]

i will be running an hx 30w on my car. I used a saab internal wastegate actuator with an extended eyelet rod that will let me use it the internal wastegate

Holsets are something many people underestimate. They cost less that a garrett, and when you can have a turbo like an hx40 on full boil by 4k rpms and make 500 whp creates an awesome powerband.

[Dave926]

I know there are more people on here that have holset setups....post them up !!!!!!!!!