Building a Street Prepared Mk1 TT

[madmax199]

Nice job on the Delrin front control arm bushings, I have been wanting to do that for some time now, but was worried about how the bushing would wear when the rear bushing can still flex and squish into other directions and thus cause an extra side load to the Delrin front bushing and cause premature wear. Prolly not as much an issue on a dedicated autox car, but since I daily drive mine, I don't change that rear bushing as often as I should haha. Keep us posted on how the Delrin front bushing works out, looks promising!

From my previous experiences with delrin in similar situations(potential loading in an axis different than the rotational one), the only wear I have seen is from normal rotational contact friction. The compression side loads didn't affect the delrins, in both my Evo and my Saturn, after 50k street/track. The bores in the delrins however were getting loose from friction and that's what made me refresh them at around 50k.Delrin is hard and can withstand a lot of compression(think delrin motor mounts that see lots of compression but no rotational contact friction, they last a long time).


The one MCPI just build for the MK4 TT/R32 adressed my concerns with friction wear by integrating greasable groves in the design. I packed the grooves with high temp synthetic grease and I also coated the contact surfaces with permanent dry film lubricant. These extra steps should considerably increase their life on the streets, however only time will tell by how much.


You can see the inner grooves, if look inside of the bushing laying down.
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Dry film lubricant coating of the metal pin(dries for a permanent lubricating coat)



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[madmax199]

Any thoughts to offsetting that bushing to gain more caster?

I didn't really think about caster since it's the one thing that I have plenty of.
The chassis itself comes with decent caster and on top of that I had added more than 3 degrees with my ball joint relocating plates. They are offset for caster, on top of the static camber compensation they offer. I have enough caster now, that I only need -2.8 to-2.9 degrees of static camber, to get the same temp spread on the front tires as I was getting before at -4.5 degrees of camber and stock caster



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[Ko4TiTy]

I didn't really think about caster since it's the one thing that I have plenty of.
The chassis itself comes with decent caster and on top of that I had added more than 3 degrees with my ball joint relocating plates. They are offset for caster, on top of the static camber compensation they offer. I have enough caster now, that I only need -2.8 to-2.9 degrees of static camber, to get the same temp spread on the front tires as I was getting before at -4.5 degrees of camber and stock caster



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where did you get those,and do you know a good brand for camber plates/also have some questions for you about your meth inj system, thanks

[madmax199]

where did you get those,and do you know a good brand for camber plates/also have some questions for you about your meth inj system, thanks

Those I fabricated myself, back then I needed to run upward of -4 degrees of camber to keep the temp spread even on across the front tires (now I only need -2.8 to get the same spread because I have found the optimal spring rates and have loads of caster). Since there was no camber plates available for the platform gives that much adjustment, I had to come up with my own camber/caster compensation.

Ground Control makes a nice set of camber plates that, I'm sure, will fit your needs, but there are others also available. .

What's your question about my Water injection system?

[Ko4TiTy]

water meth inj

-what can i expect from water meth in terms of power gains
-what size meth injector should i use
-how does the sizing that work^
- what meth system are you using
- i know i need to change my ignition timing but, want to know more about that
- what should i look out for
- when on meth, can i safely run more boost, im at 22psi stage 2 unitronic now.
- and i just want ur imput on the subject. thanks

[madmax199]

-what can i expect from water meth in terms of power gains
There is no exact answer for this, it will depend on how effective your system is and how much you push the tune to take advantage of it.

-what size meth injector should i use
Again it will depend on a few things. How many nozzles do you plan on running and also what kind of mix(water, water/meth, meth) you want to run.

-how does the sizing that work^
For each engine/turbo size there are recommended nozzle sizes for each mixture ran. I have charts and that will help me guide you to pick the right ones, just PM when you are ready.

- what meth system are you using
I am using a Labonte maf based kit because the boost controlled ones aren't exactly suited for autocross with all the on/off throttle involved.

- i know i need to change my ignition timing but, want to know more about that
A road/dyno tune will determine that answer. The way it works is after you have your final boost and fueling set, you keep adding timing, in small increments, until the torque stop increasing. Then back it up a degree or two, to have a safety net.

- what should i look out for
Bad tuning, improper W/I setup, lack of a good failsafe etc.
Proper nozzle placement/size, as well as solenoid placement with multiple nozzles can make or brake the benefits.

- when on meth, can i safely run more boost, im at 22psi stage 2 unitronic now.
A single nozzle of straight distilled water allowed me to run 30 psi safely on the stock K04 (IAT droping significantly under boost and low EGTs).

- and i just want ur imput on the subject. thanks
That's it without crowding the thread too much!

[madmax199]

Did a 3" downpipe from 42 Draft Designs (thanks John@42 Draft Designs for the sponsorship!) over the 4th of July weekend. The quality and fitment on the DP is top notch! I haven't autocrossed on it yet but I can feel a big improvement in spool and the top end is now alive. While I had the car on the lift I also put fresh rotors and pads(EBC red) on the front end. Car is feeling great and I'm heading out to Waterfest in two weeks to test everything out!






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Nut and bolt to replace two broken studs at the turbo!



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Plenty of clearance everywhere, perfect fit with no modifications!



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[tedgram]

Nice! Thats what I need to increase my top end power. Thinking of having a custom one made.

[madmax199]

Nice! Thats what I need to increase my top end power. Thinking of having a custom one made.

I would strongly suggest going with 42 DD on this! I personally entertained the idea of going the custom but for the craftmanship, fit and price of the 42 Draft Designs DP it would have been a pointless project. You could do it right but it wouldn't be cheaper or better built than what 42DD is offering. Trust me, give John @ 42DD a call and tell him Madmax sent you (you won't regret it) !

[honda93]

I just wanted to say that Max has done a stellar job of setting the car up thus far, especially with respect to the chassis. I had the pleasure to drive this car at Waterfest 17 (I was one of the instructors during the weekend) and I can honestly say that once he gets some detail work sorted out, this car is going to be a beast!

Thanks again Max!!!

[DougLoBue]

I just wanted to say that Max has done a stellar job of setting the car up thus far, especially with respect to the chassis. I had the pleasure to drive this car at Waterfest 17 (I was one of the instructors during the weekend) and I can honestly say that once he gets some detail work sorted out, this car is going to be a beast!

Thanks again Max!!!

That was one hell of a ride- Thanks for all the instruction Tony!

[Audi Boy TT]

Hey max how does that Delrin setup work for a 100% street driven car? i have an 02 TT coupe that is scary soft in corners with bump steer issues( the ones where when your cornering and you hit a bumb and then the car briefly goes straight). The engine/tranny mounts are shot as are the stock bushings.

The suspension setup is 100% stock. i was looking at the defcon 2 setup. also any other handling tips would be appreciated. also any advice on engine/tranny mounts for day to day use would be awesome.

oh and im an LI'er too and am looking for a nice car meet near the coliseum, know of any?

[honda93]

That was one hell of a ride- Thanks for all the instruction Tony!

It was my pleasure. You did great, btw! Stick with this, I think you'll do very well in this hobby.

[madmax199]

I just wanted to say that Max has done a stellar job of setting the car up thus far, especially with respect to the chassis. I had the pleasure to drive this car at Waterfest 17 (I was one of the instructors during the weekend) and I can honestly say that once he gets some detail work sorted out, this car is going to be a beast!

Thanks again Max!!!

Glad you liked it Tony! I have worked very hard to make this 3000 lbs pig as neutral as can be, and I'm still working on it. In CSP, you better come correct if you want to dance with the miatas! they have ideal suspension and dynamic camber curve, better tire/weight ratio, near identical power/ weight ratio with the TT and 50/50 weight distribution on a much smaller wheel base .

However, I think that when I'm done with the car (haven't done anything with the differentials) AWD
is going to be the game changer/decider, just like it was in ESP then BSP with the Evo (someone mark my words!).

Here is a video of your run Tony!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBt0oO2J6q4

[madmax199]

Hey max how does that Delrin setup work for a 100% street driven car? i have an 02 TT coupe that is scary soft in corners with bump steer issues( the ones where when your cornering and you hit a bumb and then the car briefly goes straight). The engine/tranny mounts are shot as are the stock bushings.

The suspension setup is 100% stock. i was looking at the defcon 2 setup. also any other handling tips would be appreciated. also any advice on engine/tranny mounts for day to day use would be awesome.

oh and im an LI'er too and am looking for a nice car meet near the coliseum, know of any?

That delrin setup is designed to outperform the Defcons and be street driven. Mike added grease grooves that can be packed with with temp synthetic grease to make them noise and friction free through their expected life. Give Mike at mcpi a call and tell Max sent you .

I don't think what you are experiencing is bump steer, the Audi engineers did a good job at not setting any bump steer through the geometry at stock height. Control arms and tie rods stay true and parallel to each other in dynamic state(I know because I did the camber curving on the car).
What I think you are feeling is tire skipping over bumps, a good set of coilovers (pss, pss9, H&R etc) will cure that problem.

The best and only meet I can recommend is a local autocross, check autox4u.com for local
events.

[madmax199]

It was my pleasure. You did great, btw! Stick with this, I think you'll do very well in this hobby.

I told him, he is a natural! He was consistently dropping seconds in a matter of runs. Some seat time and the right instruction and I can see him becoming a hot shoe if he sticks with it!

[madmax199]

For everyone subscribed, waterfest was a great season kick off, showed us lots of little things that needed to be worked out! I won the race tire pro class (indexed) with some pretty good company (Jason Sipman, Sam Krauss etc.) and also got FTD for the event !

The car was breaking up all day with what we thought was a misfire. It ended up being the larger winter meth nozzles that I forgot to switch for the much smaller ones needed to run the SCCA legal straight distiller water. There was no power and the inability to go WOT without quenching the spark with water was frustrating at times. However, the suspension, as expected, carried us all day for the win! No understeer, gobs of grip and plenty of rotation if needed

We also blew a few intercooler hoses, it's really time now for some welded pipes to eliminate most of the offending joints. Overall it was a great event and I' m looking forward to doing it again next year (maybe a three-peat )

Thanks again to my sponsors 42 draft designs and MCPi!



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[honda93]

Here is a video of your run Tony!
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=EBt0oO2J6q4

Link not working.

[madmax199]

Link not working.

Fixed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBt0oO2J6q4

[honda93]

Thanks again Max! If you ever need a co-driver, I'd be honored to oblige, although I'm sure you hear that a lot!

[madmax199]

Thanks again Max! If you ever need a co-driver, I'd be honored to oblige, although I'm sure you hear that a lot!

The door is always open for you to jump in! I usually have a co-driver but whenever the spot is open, it's yours to take !

[madmax199]

Some action shots of the car with the new 700/1300 springs combo and 295 front tires instead of the 315s. Suspension is still working, with some limited body roll considering the amount of grip the car is generating. There is also no wheel lift and that makes me happy!



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[carsluTT]

cars looking good. did u find an way around the brake cutting fuel issue?

[madmax199]

cars looking good. did u find an way around the brake cutting fuel issue?

Thanks, I was never able to get rid of the throttle cut with brake overlap
I tried disconnecting the brake light switch but that did not help, I've learned to drive around it overtime as it only does it with a certain % of overlap. Next season I will be running Eurodyne Maestro and the software allows you to tune or delete the feature.

[carsluTT]

ill have to dig into my Maestro-7 a bit more, i must of over looked that feature.

[madmax199]

ill have to dig into my Maestro-7 a bit more, i must of over looked that feature.

lucky bastard, I envy you !
Beside the full tuning capability, I can't wait to have tunable launch control, brake/throttle overlap control and emission subroutines delete.

[stripethree]

Long time thread reader, first time thread poster.

I am currently building/running a DSP R32 and have been keeping an eye on this thread as it has proven to be a great source of information for the things that overlap between the R and TT. It's unfortunate that there are so few Rs being built and run competitively in STX and DSP.

I am curious if you have ever had any issues with the power steering not keeping up with steering inputs in transitional elements? It literally feels like the power steering just gives up - the car turns in very well for the first part of, say, a lane change type maneuver, but then when trying to bring it back, good luck. I have had a couple other drivers take runs in the car and confirm it appears to be power steering and not suspension or wheel/tire/grip related. Fluid level is okay, there appear to be no system leaks, and the pump seems to be function. I'm wondering if it is being worked more than it can keep up.

Second item of interest. The MCPi control arm setup looks fantastic and as soon as I have enough time to have the car down, I will be upgrading (it's currently my only running car). Have you approached MCPi about Delrin inserts for the motor mounts or even had reason to? My car seems to love to eat up mounts, especially the pendulum, when driving hard on race rubber. I went to VF mounts, and the poly and bolts failed on both the engine and trans mounts - never again - and now am back to stock. The pendulum, I have been through my original mount from the factory, the same mount with ECS bushings, poly bushings, and am about to go back to trying stage 1 or 2 of BFI's inserts (I have both sitting on my work bench but am undecided which I want to give a go first). It just doesn't seem there is a good solution that meets the restrictions of the class and can stand up to the abuse.

[madmax199]

Long time thread reader, first time thread poster.

I am currently building/running a DSP R32 and have been keeping an eye on this thread as it has proven to be a great source of information for the things that overlap between the R and TT. It's unfortunate that there are so few Rs being built and run competitively in STX and DSP.

I am curious if you have ever had any issues with the power steering not keeping up with steering inputs in transitional elements? It literally feels like the power steering just gives up - the car turns in very well for the first part of, say, a lane change type maneuver, but then when trying to bring it back, good luck. I have had a couple other drivers take runs in the car and confirm it appears to be power steering and not suspension or wheel/tire/grip related. Fluid level is okay, there appear to be no system leaks, and the pump seems to be function. I'm wondering if it is being worked more than it can keep up.

Second item of interest. The MCPi control arm setup looks fantastic and as soon as I have enough time to have the car down, I will be upgrading (it's currently my only running car). Have you approached MCPi about Delrin inserts for the motor mounts or even had reason to? My car seems to love to eat up mounts, especially the pendulum, when driving hard on race rubber. I went to VF mounts, and the poly and bolts failed on both the engine and trans mounts - never again - and now am back to stock. The pendulum, I have been through my original mount from the factory, the same mount with ECS bushings, poly bushings, and am about to go back to trying stage 1 or 2 of BFI's inserts (I have both sitting on my work bench but am undecided which I want to give a go first). It just doesn't seem there is a good solution that meets the restrictions of the class and can stand up to the abuse.

Good to see others building this great platform for auto-x

I know exactly the passive feeling you're getting from the steering in quick left/right transitions and slaloms, especially with big heavy rubber. I don't think there is anything wrong with it (the system) besides the fact that it's slower than the inputs you are feeding it. The rack ratio is 15.6:1 so it's not the fastest around. Another thing to consider is the speed variable steering assist, it takes a lot more muscle effort to operate at solo speed since there is less assist. When you couple the heavy low-speed steering with a rack ratio that's not sharp (15.6:1 VS 13-14:1 on comparable sport cars like the miatas, S2k etc.) you get a steering that requires that you anticipate the needed inputs. You need to drive these cars like you'd drive a car on slow response bias-ply cantilevers (stay ahead of the steering and anticipate).

I have not upgraded my mounts to anything stiffer than stock, when they're in need of replacement, I will probably go with medium poly inserts. Solid bushings inserts (delrin) or full solid mounts, like the one ED at ForceFed Engineering makes, have the potential to echo chassis vibration back to the block that get picked up by the sensitive VW knock sensor (phantom knock).
With that said, I have not personally tested the theory in my TT so it may be worth it for you to explore solid mounts ( give my buddy ED at FFE a call ).

Here is a real life example of the said potential issue with hard mounts:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post73474001

[madmax199]

9/12/11I got an intake from 42 Draft Design a while back and needed to update the thread with te great result the velocity stacked system provided.
http://www.42draftdesigns.com/catego...k1tt_hfis.html

The enginnering behind this intake is amazing and the craftmanship behind it, is not what you typically see on simple intake systems. Like most parts that are well thought off, designed and tested, it delivers!

I bolted the intake and was seriously shocked that there was that much power to be made from midrange- up over my open cone filter bolted on the maf housing ( I had the big mama foot long filter that all the racers swear by). The velocity stacked design works and for me it opened things up especially from 4000 rpm to redline, probably where the increasing airflow had trouble making their way in, without increased turbulence and pressure loss. I recorded a peak mass airflow increase of 20 g/s in the upper RPM but also an increase over the entire rev range.

I had to use longer bolts because I run a larger s4 maf housing


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[DIAF]

I'm going to be driving a CSP car @ the meadowlands this Saturday (9/17) - come play.

[madmax199]

I'm going to be driving a CSP car @ the meadowlands this Saturday (9/17) - come play.

I'm going to try my best to make it ! Believe it or not I haven't autocrossed since WF and that was my season opener. Let me guess, another miata? Is the car somewhat nationally competitive (it's always nice to baseline against competitive cars)?.

[DIAF]

I'm going to try my best to make it ! Believe it or not I haven't autocrossed since WF and that was my season opener. Let me guess, another miata? Is the car somewhat nationally competitive (it's always nice to baseline against competitive cars)?.

It's an NC, and while not full tilt is still pretty quick. I PAX about the same in it as I do in the RX-8.

I'm pretty excited about driving it. Also, we should have a 60+ second course this week

[stripethree]

Thanks for the feedback on the steering. I'll continue to pay more attention to it and see how it pans out.

I checked out ForceFed's site and it looks like they sell the BFI inserts for all three mounts. That's what I am planning to use in the pendulum. If the engine & trans mounts weren't so new, I'd consider it.I have a spare, worn set that I can have ready to go when the time comes. I did not know about the 'phantom knock' but that is a very useful link, thanks for that.

I've been re-reading some of the thread because some pictures were snapped this weekend that show the car tripoding (or at least, coming way way to close to tripoding). Looks like there might be some adjustments to make...

Currently:
KW CS shocks on OEM valving
750 lb front, 1100 lb rear springs
H&R 25 mm front sway, softest setting
H&R 21 mm rear sway, stiffest setting <-- may be part of the problem!

Next local event is weekend after next so I have some time to play beforehand.

[madmax199]

I've been re-reading some of the thread because some pictures were snapped this weekend that show the car tripoding (or at least, coming way way to close to tripoding). Looks like there might be some adjustments to make...

Currently:
KW CS shocks on OEM valving
750 lb front, 1100 lb rear springs
H&R 25 mm front sway, softest setting
H&R 21 mm rear sway, stiffest setting <-- may be part of the problem!

Next local event is weekend after next so I have some time to play beforehand.

Looks like a decent setup you have there with the KW CS and close to the right spring rates.
The only thing I'm not a fan of is the big bars. The front one will promote corner exit push and loss of traction, while the rear bar is definitely the cause of the tendency to tripod. I'd suggest that you run both bars at full soft or ideally switch back to OEM ones (with enough springs to keep the roll in check, big bars are only going to hurt you)

You also need some more rear rate (1300Lbs rear springs will get you close) with the 0.63 motion that we have in the back. I think 700/1300 is the hot ticket for the platform, providing that you're going to run with swaybars. I got those ideal spring rate number by modeling the suspension and also real life R&D/trial and error... the following link has more on the platform's suspension.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-TT-suspension

I tried running sans swaybar at some point but the loss in transitional response canceled the increase in overall grip. What wheel tire combo are you running? Any differential and haldex controller mods? Also, if you don't mind, post some pictures of your car on course so I can see the behavior with your spring rate/swaybar combo. BTW, I am happy that you posted, we can share data and help each other improve .

[stripethree]

After reading your front sway bar modification, I have been considering doing something similar to the front at least, since swapping that bar requires dropping the subframe. If I do that, I might as well be ready to swap the control arms right? I think I need to make adjustments at both ends of the car as you suggest - reason I upped the rear bar was that I was getting no rotation out of the car. That seems to have been the incorrect adjustment.

Regarding spring rates, you'll get no argument from me there. I'll try upping the rear rate and see what it gains me - reading your linked thread you are way ahead of me in terms of figuring out this platform. I'll likely need more shock also, as I'm still on the OEM valving for the KWs. The springs that came with them, and that I assume the shocks are valved for, are much, much softer. I am curious about the front rate, since I would think the R32 may require a little bit more than the turbo TT in order to be able to handle the extra weight. That is, of course, assuming the weight difference is significant. If I recall correctly my car currently puts about 1050# over the driver wheel and 980# or so over the passenger wheel.

Since you asked, I'll certainly throw out more details on my setup, I did not want to assume and clog up your build thread unsolicited.

For wheels & tires I run et23 17x9 TD Pro Race 1.2 with Hankook Z214 275/40s. I also run 8mm spacers up front to clear the spring perch. The car does have a Peloquin up front but the OEM diff out back. Was there ever any definitive ruling on the Haldex controllers, I seem to recall folks writing letters and such but that so far, it was not kosher for *SP? Front camber is at -2.4 and rear is at -3.3. I thought I'd be able to get more front camber out of the KW's with the top mount, but apparently not.

The pictures below will get you an idea of ride height, and I can post accurate numbers when they are in front of me at home. This platform does not like to be lowered all that much, and I am also cautious of fender to tire contact, even through the fenders have been pulled.

Pictures from this past Sunday follow. The front rebound as cranked down quite a bit since the surface in Phoenix is really bumpy. Hopefully someone will be taking pictures at the next Tucson event as our surface is much, much smoother.

Lifting the rear leg...


Not me driving, and a different part of the course, but similar result...


Decent shot of the front outside tire loaded up


There's more here from various events this year if you want to check them out but I think those 3 might be the best illustrations of the behaviors we're discussing.