Routan Brake Issues - Again!?

[itisroutan]

Van is in again for brake issues. New front rotors at 4,000 miles and new rear rotors at 12,000. Now at 15,000 miles we need new both front and rear rotors. Right now call in with VWOA to see if they will cover it and stand by their product. Dealer said it's wear and tear and they will not cover it - cause could be that I drive with my foot on the brake. VWOA rep let me know that it is a heavy vehicle. Hard to believe that I could be on my 3rd set of rotors - all I want is to stop the van without the steering column shaking. Is that too much to ask!?

[thedrowningman]

You know.... I thought I was immune to the brake issue on the Routan until about 3 hours ago.

Was on the freeway and had to brake somewhat hard for traffic. And there it was.... very noticeable shake of warped front rotors.

9300 miles on it.

I am super light on my brakes. Almost all of my driving is freeway driving. These rotors are clearly crap.

Looks like I get to play the new rotor game with VWOA now too.

[Whataguy]

My machine goes in the garage for a few problems next week. The rear right signal bulb blew and the signal indicator goes nuts when on - annoying. BUT the brakes are wobbling again, so they'll be rechecked too.

I had the rotors resurfaced TWICE without replacement - at 2 and 3,000KM. Guess they are literally wearing down now - "they can only be resurfaced so much" I was told by the service manager, hinting at the next step, 6 months ago. For me as well, here comes the two strike pitch to replace them without cost... we'll see where that goes. I will certainly be adamant on getting free ones with only 16 KM (10,000 or so miles). Notwithstanding the brake pads having to suffer through it all.

Just thought I'd add it to the pile.

[itisroutan]

Nothing to update yet - VWOA called late afternoon yesterday and said they will be doing some fact finding on the case and get back to me. I am not a mechanic - maybe someone can post some ideas on what could be the mechanical cause. That would be greatly appreciated. Service manager's only thought is that I drive with my foot on the brake and that is the cause of it.

From reading other forums I have found some possibilities: stuck caliper or slide pins, bad strut or ball joint, wheels out of balance, or ABS not working correctly. Not sure of quality of rotors they are using either.

I know a lot have posted about brake problems. Has anyone had a tech find a mechanical cause other than blaming it on driver error? Thanks for the help.

[redzone98]

Nothing to update yet - VWOA called late afternoon yesterday and said they will be doing some fact finding on the case and get back to me. I am not a mechanic - maybe someone can post some ideas on what could be the mechanical cause. That would be greatly appreciated. Service manager's only thought is that I drive with my foot on the brake and that is the cause of it.

From reading other forums I have found some possibilities: stuck caliper or slide pins, bad strut or ball joint, wheels out of balance, or ABS not working correctly. Not sure of quality of rotors they are using either.

I know a lot have posted about brake problems. Has anyone had a tech find a mechanical cause other than blaming it on driver error? Thanks for the help.

No need to search around of the cause. The cause is Sub-Standard, Cheap "Made in China" Rotors.

[luckeydoug1]

Unfortunately, this is nothing new for Chrysler. The problem of warped rotors goes back to at least the 70s. Their big cars (yeah, all cars were big back then, but I am talking about the huge cars like the New Yorkers, etc), were notorious for this problem. The rotors just weren't manufactured to take the amount of heat that was generated. My full size (B250) vans from the 80s suffered from this as well, but at least I usually got 25-30000 miles on a set before trouble set it. The best solution was to buy a good set of replacements when the originals went. I tried the resurfacing route a couple of times, but that was usually only good for another 5-10000 miles at best and they usually took out the new set of pads when the rotors warped again. None of the Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth mini vans have ever done well with rotors, either, but the problems seem to be even worse on the Routans (and I would guess their Chrysler sisters as well). Nearly every one of the Routans I test drove had this problem, even with near zero miles on them. The dealer thought the problem was from rust setting in from the vans sitting on the lot for extended periods of time. This is when VW was replacing the rotors without even trying to resurface them.

To put this in perspective, I got just under 40000 miles on my first set of pads and rotors on my 2003 Eurovan (and the mechanic said the rotors were still good for another 10000 but I had them replaced anyway). My current set has gone over 40000 as well. The Routan may be a heavy vehicle, but the Eurovan is a heavy vehicle as well and most of the miles on our Eurovan have been with a heavy load of either passengers, cargo or both.

[itisroutan]

Just got the van back this afternoon. VWOA covered the third set of rotors. Dealer's "service" not good at all, so I would insist on giving VWOA a call directly if you are experiencing problems. Brakes actually feel like they are working correctly. First time in...15,000 miles

[Zipp_n]

My dealer covered the warped brakes and said it was either recalled or that VWOA knows it's a problem and it'll be covered. (I'm not sure if it'll ever get to recall levels.) My dealer called VWOA directly and got the low down on the issue.

It took twice fo them to "catch it in the act" and I did a happy dance in the service bay when they said they got it to shake!

[redzone98]

i was talking with a woman in my Neighborhood that has a 2009 T&C Limited. She told me that she got a letter from the Chrysler Group stating that they will replace the rotors and pad on all 2009+ Town and Country's. She also said that if you did it yourself, they will reimburse you to 100% less a 50 dollar fee.

Sounds like a recall to me, and the Routan should not be far behind

[haunted reality]

My dealer covered the warped brakes and said it was either recalled or that VWOA knows it's a problem and it'll be covered. (I'm not sure if it'll ever get to recall levels.) My dealer called VWOA directly and got the low down on the issue.

It took twice fo them to "catch it in the act" and I did a happy dance in the service bay when they said they got it to shake!

Mine's doing it again too, got an appointment for the 12k oil change this weekend and I already mentioned this to the dealer. We'll see how it goes.

[Tax Consel]

Because of the close relation of my Routan to the Mopar world I also watch the chrysler minivan fourms--another very good resource for our shared platform vehicles. There's a post over there that describes the brake campaign. If you're one of the brake afflicted you may want to share news of this campaign with the good folks over at VWOA.

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sho...d-Chrysler-TC?

TC

[haunted reality]

Mine's doing it again too, got an appointment for the 12k oil change this weekend and I already mentioned this to the dealer. We'll see how it goes.

Dealer replaced all four rotors, VW paid for it. I get the van back tomorrow, hopefully this fixes that issue.

[jaar1006]

My 2010 Routan, with litterally 2000 miles had to have the front rotors and pads replaced!!!!!
The problem started about 500 miles ago, with a periodoc squeak upon apply

[jaar1006]

My 2010 Routan, with litterally 2000 miles had to have the front rotors and pads replaced!!!!!
The problem started about 500 miles ago, with a periodoc squeaking. It has only gotten worse. I took it into the VW dealer. I was told there was a residue on the rotors that should not be there. The dealer contacted VW tech support, they were advised to replace the rotors and pads.

Is this common with VW/Chyrsler vans? Is there or will there be any kind of recall? Will I be back in the next 2000 miles, to have the same issue.

If anyone is reading this, please offer your insight.

[haunted reality]

I wondered that too, they told me they replaced all four rotors, but if it's the same bad designed rotors, I'll have the same issue. It is a known issue with Chrysler's as well.

[N2OIL]

You might look on Facebook under VW Routan. The one that has a few thousand memebers. They have an interesting list of issues to look at.

[MRP2001GTi]

We are not alone. My friends that have Asian minivans ALL have the same brake shimmy issue. The problem is the manufacturers install brakes from a CAR on this 6000lb van and expect it to work. If I purchase my Routan at the end of the lease I will order aftermarket rotors and hope like heck they are made from better material or look into doing an SRT8 brake swap with one of the Dodge products.

[TCM GLX]

Totally with these comments... my sister in law has a Toyota Sienna that goes through brakes every 10K miles.

As for a brake upgrade, I wonder if stuff from some of the Dodge SRT stuff would bolt up? I would be interested in that as well.

[redzone98]

Totally with these comments... my sister in law has a Toyota Sienna that goes through brakes every 10K miles.

As for a brake upgrade, I wonder if stuff from some of the Dodge SRT stuff would bolt up? I would be interested in that as well.

im putting on Power slot rotors next week, that and some acebono pads should help the brake feel

Just a thought out there tho... it seems that 100% of the Routans out there are experiencing brake issues, besides **** quality brake pads / rotors, has anyone thought about the brake calipers themselves being the culprits ? possibly not retracing enough and super heating the rotors ?

[Cool Dub]

The new Odyssey next door has gone through brakes twice.
Dealer replace our scored 09 rotors (4) free. No problems.

[redzone98]

Brakes just arrived from The Tire Rack, ill be installing them tomorrow!

[TCM GLX]

So not much to add yet, our routan barely has 2500 miles.

Took it in for the 1500 mile pre service check, and talked to the Service Manager,...... he says, we have had problems, and are working testing better pads and rotors, for now, looks at it like this, you get new brakes every time they go bad for free.... I laughed, he had a good attitude about it.

As for Minivans, my brother had an 08 Odyssey, and my sister in law has an 07 SIenna, and BOTH eat brakes like a 10 year old kills a Happy Meal, QUICKLY! My brothers ODyssey was about every 10K miles, and the Sienna is about every 15-20, so it seems Minivan builders need to figure out a btter overall solution. BREMBOS?

[redzone98]

Simple, They need to understand that these people movers, always have some sort of additional cargo in-stow. Usually 4 or 5 passengers. so an additional 500 lbs minimum to the vehicle weight !

[gsgrace]

Just got off the phone with VW of America. Unwilling to do anything for us on the brakes and Rotors which need replacement at 26,000 miles, about 10,000 of which are highway miles. I am not hard on brakes. Had a Honda Odyssey with 140,000 and only replaced brakes about every 40,000 miles. VW claims they know nothing of any brake problems. HA! I've been complaining about excessive brake dust and vibration in the brakes since the first month I owned the car. Now I see that there are so many complaints that there HAS to be a problem. Chysler recalled the Town and Country brakes. This is the same van so VW should stand behind this product and do the same!

[Steveaut]

I thought I would mention that I have 8k miles on a 2010 SEL and no brake problems as of yet. I am wondering if VW found a solution with better pads and/or rotors and have upgraded everyone who have had replacements. My Journey first went out around 18k and then a continuous 10-15k after that. The idea that it could be a caliper sounds logical to me. If they don't properly retract it would cause excessive heat and wear, causing warping.

[TCM GLX]

I thought I would mention that I have 8k miles on a 2010 SEL and no brake problems as of yet. I am wondering if VW found a solution with better pads and/or rotors and have upgraded everyone who have had replacements. My Journey first went out around 18k and then a continuous 10-15k after that. The idea that it could be a caliper sounds logical to me. If they don't properly retract it would cause excessive heat and wear, causing warping.

I do not want to jinx myself, but I have 7500K on my 2010 Routan SE, and so far brakes seem good. Low brake dust, and not any vibes or anything!

[kyle01]

Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge brakes suck. Period.

And NOT all minivans eat brakes like that- my 2003 Eurovan has 115k on the original rotors (on our 3rd set of pads) No shimmy. Ever. Never been resurfaced even.

Good, thick, oversized rotors and huge calipers vs. undersized chinese Chrysler junk...

I had a Grand Cherokee back in 03' that had a similar issue. Dealer replaced the first time, I paid the second time, then the third time- I did some research. There was a class action lawsuit pending on the brake issues!

I ended up being reimbursed for the replacement I paid for out of pocket and FINALLY got the rotors replaced with an improved part. I got rid of it shortly after that.


Sorry to chime in here, I was only curious because a friend just bought a Routan and I was sniffing around...

Cheers
Kyle

[Optical TDI]

If VW won't cover the costs, then don't buy the VW rotors again. Tire Rack sells Centric brand rotors for our vans. These are the same rotors that Powerslot rotors use, just without the slots. They are about $50 each are a much better quality than the stockers.

Yeah it's $200, but I would bet these will not warp like the stock rotors. This is what I will do if we end up having the same issues. 3k miles so far and they are okay.

[58kafer]

Here are some rotor upgrades. All rotors are not created equally. Some big box autoparts stores sell lower cost parts because we all watch our money. But those lower prices usually come with a sacfrifce and the manufacturers cut material from the parts to keep the costs down. You want to find a rotor with the thickest rotor surface before it gets to the cooling veins of the rotor. Manufacturers will make the veins longer and take the surface thickness away thus resulting in a thinner rotor while still maintaining the proper surface to surface thickness. For example if a rotor is supposed to be 1-1/4 thick surface to surface that distance needs to be maintained but everything inbetween is fair game for material removal. So if you were to look at a rotor from looking at the veins the rotor surface might measure 3/8" on either side of the veins, but by removing a 1/16" or more form either inside surface would result in more rotors out the door for the manufacturer. A 1/16 might not seem like much but it could be the difference between warp or no warp possibly. Also look for a rotor that is either slotted or cross drilled, that will help in the cooling process allowing the hot gasses and surface temp to escape. I personally prefer cross-drilled rotors. I have been thru countless rotors and pads on my GMC Yukon (horrible brakes). When I switched to cross drilled rotor my warpage problems were gone for good. I could warp a set of OEM rotors in a months time. Only draw back to the crossdrilled rotors is some places will tell you they can't cut them because of the holes in them. You'll need to go to an oldtime repair shop to have it done because they're the only ones who understand how a brake lathe works. I heard a guy tell a customer that when the holes pass past the cutter, the cutter will move into the hole and break the cutting tool. I tried to explain to him that the feed of the tool is only moving a few thousandths of an inch over the whole cutting surface and he may only remove 10 thousandths of an inch to true a rotor (business card thickness) and the tool will not move in any farther than the feed rate tells the tool to move I'm hoping more businesses get into the game for these rotors but here are a few links to rotors. Either site has pads to choose from. Just a little food for thought, though not the answer for everyone. We're at 3,700 miles and all is smooth so far.

http://www.frozenrotors.com/search/index.php
Just enter the vans info and you'll need to choose 2009 as the year.

http://ebcbrakes.iwebcat.com/_Member...57176&hdnSts=0
Same as above choose the van either 2009 or 2010. The GD series are the ones.

They claim that the cross drilled rotors crack, Ive got over 100K on crossdrilled rotors with no cracks.

[blizno]

Looks like mine will be back in for a brake job. About 14K miles on the clock and brakes/rtors replaced at about 4500.

[nater]

Unfortunately the problem is inherent in the design of the rotors. Not in where they were produced.
You can put the best rotors in the world on that car and they will still warp. Vw/Chrysler would need to spec a larger and thicker rotor to help dissipate heat properly. All aftermarkets will make the rotor to fit, based on the crappy oem specs.

So, get used to having new rotors put on...because recall or not, Chrysler still needs to redesign that rotor.
FYI, I'm in the same boat as you guys! These rotors suck!


iPhone

[VWroutanvanman]

I know this is going to sound odd, but some brake rotors are very sensative to lug nut torque. I didn't have problems with my brakes until I had the tires rotated at the first oil change. I then later had a flat on the RR, and darn if the lug nuts were on so tight it took a long breaker-bar to remove them. So.......make sure your wheels aren't over-torqued. I'm not sure of the value (reading on torque wrench), but it isn't much. After checking all 4 wheels, they were all over-tightened. VW dealer should have the value. By the way, it was the VW dealer that did that first oil change and rotated the tires.

PS..... I'm not saying that there isn't the possibility of poor quality parts, but the torque of the lugs should be correct so that can be ruled out as a problem. Also, the dealer replaced the rear rotors and pads under warrantee at 12,000 miles, and were very good about it.

[nater]

I agree, over-trq can EASILY warp rotors.


iPhone

[58kafer]

I agree, over-trq can EASILY warp rotors.


iPhone

+ 1 here

I can't stand getting my cars back from inspection only to rotate the tires in 5K to have to hang from the breaker bar!

BTW :The correct wheel nut tightness is 95 ft lbs (130 N·m).

[Whataguy]

09 with 16,000 miles 1.5 years old went into garage today (towed-in via road side assistance, unrelated 'bad key' error - wouldn't start). Coincidentally had an appointment scheduled for next week; tapping noise underneath rear, constant, stops when brakes applied. Diagnosis: "brakes gone". Dealer said nothing can be done for warranty, acknowledging all the brake issues. $374 for rear disc and pads.

Guess I will make a call to VWCanada, but not optimistic. Any Canadians have theirs replaced post 12 months?

No history of 'rear' brake issues on this unit, yet 'front' brakes had issues - rotors repaired once, and then rotors replaced at about 5,000 miles.

Thanks.