Routan Brake Issues - Again!?

[VWroutanvanman]

Thanks for that torque value. I'll go back and check my wheels.

[paf]

So my Routan came down with this very symptom 4000K into ownership. When traveling > 40 mph and stepping on the brake, the van starts to shudder as if had improperly balanced wheels. Obviously this shudder comes from warped rotors. I brought this up to my dealer on a routine 6K service and they did mention 2 things:

1) This is a know issue
2) It has to be reported before 12K otherwise you are approaching end of warranty for these parts and they are up for a regular service.

... and they will address it! Just like that - no hassles, no bickering.

I was also floored how helpful they were and friendly -- a big to my dealer. I get to drop off the van for service this fri and get a loaner to serve me throughout the service time. I do feel lucky that to find a good dealership with a great service rep.

[jh1867]

Well my 09 Routan SE with 19000 miles also had horrible brakes. They were so bad it felt like the wheel would come out of your hands. So I put a set of cross drilled and slotted rotors on there to help with the heat. I bought the set on E-Bay and I figured I had nothing to lose. Here is the
Item number: 280646211102 and the seller id atlautosports [/B]they are nice looking rotors amd are zink plated for rust. The pads they sent are good ones also. I must say it is night and day with the difference. It is a much firmer pedal. We have only had the van about a month and noticed the proble. I beleive that with only 19000 miles the front rotors and pads must have been changed before. They didnt look to bad but they sure were.

[Sawdust]

Here is my History so far.

Demo purchased with 13,000km = 8000m

front brakes resurfaced at 20,000km = 12,500m

Rear brakes squeal, new pads + rotors at 30,000km = 18,500m

Front new pads + rotors at 42,000km = 26,000m

All done under VWOC warranty with very little effort on my part.

[pmilian01]

I purchased a used 2009 Routan last year with 36,000 miles and immediately I had that problem with the brakes.

This was my solution to this problem (I have now 44,500 miles) and so far is working great. I installed cross drilled & slotted rotors with metallic pads. There is the option of using ceramic pads but they are very noisy with this kind of rotors, but they do brake the with very little effort on the brake pedal. Is my opinion that the regular rotors get too hot causing them to warp, cross drilled & slotted rotors cools down a lot faster. All high performance cars have this kind of rotors to cool it down while braking at high speeds. So far in my Routan is working great, like a charm.

If interested I got it from this guy on EBAY

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FRONT...item3f08db1a01

[71sbeetle]

our history is easy:
each 6k miles visits:
new front brake rotors
new front brake pads
new rear brake rotors
new rear brake pads
.......

[Tr0p1c_6er]

Has anyone had problems with the pedal assembly? I put new cross drilled slotted rotors and ceramic pads front and rear, now when you push the pedal you get this weird squishing sound like mashing the air out of an airbag or something. Can't imagine changing the parts would have caused that (we bled the brakes well when we finished, no air bubbles, and I did the bed in process that was recommended.)

Anyone have any suggestions on what may have happened?

[VWroutanvanman]

It would be interesting to get all the manufacturing dates of our vans with brake problems. At some point Chrysler must have either run out of bad inventory, or realized that there was a brake rotor problem, and changed inventory (Chinese rotors?).......my date of manufacture on my '10 Routan SE is 11-09.

[58kafer]

Has anyone had problems with the pedal assembly? I put new cross drilled slotted rotors and ceramic pads front and rear, now when you push the pedal you get this weird squishing sound like mashing the air out of an airbag or something. Can't imagine changing the parts would have caused that (we bled the brakes well when we finished, no air bubbles, and I did the bed in process that was recommended.)

Anyone have any suggestions on what may have happened?

If it sounds like air when pressing the brake pedal down more it's possible the power brake booster has gone bad. Do the brakes feel mushy or poor too and is it runnning rough? If it's running rough then you are leaking vacuum, but you would also hear it hissing(indside) while running. What you did should not have caused anything to happen with the booster, but if when you bled the brakes you somehow over extended the pin that pushes on the diaphram inside the booster and tore the rubber that would be about the only way I could see it happening but I highly doubt it. That does not look like a fun job, about all you can see is the master cylinder when you open the hood. Any chance your still under warranty? So they can't get too picky, put your old stuff back on

[plrhlco]

Is this issue happening on all trim level Routans? What year Routans is this happening on? Is this just a total problem for everyone who purchased a Routan?

[NCrsx]

Yes, all trim levels 2009-2010. No one has any issues yet for 2011 model's that I know of.

[Badge56]

Well I also figured I was not getting the brake problems until about 3 months ago.... Big time shaking in the steering when braking hard... Warped rotora... Just changed them using drilled rotors from Ebay... 4 rotors + 4 sets of pads $220.00 shipped and taxes included. Had the installed at a local garage for under $200.... $400.00 for new brakes all around is a good deal in my book.
The rotors should be a lot better than the cheapos Chrysler uses.... Hoping to get at least 50k km with them.

[Tr0p1c_6er]

If it sounds like air when pressing the brake pedal down more it's possible the power brake booster has gone bad. Do the brakes feel mushy or poor too and is it runnning rough? If it's running rough then you are leaking vacuum, but you would also hear it hissing(indside) while running. What you did should not have caused anything to happen with the booster, but if when you bled the brakes you somehow over extended the pin that pushes on the diaphram inside the booster and tore the rubber that would be about the only way I could see it happening but I highly doubt it. That does not look like a fun job, about all you can see is the master cylinder when you open the hood. Any chance your still under warranty? So they can't get too picky, put your old stuff back on

Yeah, the brakes don't feel right either but the van isn't running rough as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be a constant noticeable hissing either. I did put ceramic pads on though, could that account for the brakes feeling like they grab less?

[Steveaut]

Yeah, the brakes don't feel right either but the van isn't running rough as far as I can tell. There doesn't seem to be a constant noticeable hissing either. I did put ceramic pads on though, could that account for the brakes feeling like they grab less?

I don't think the ceramic pads will make the vehicle feel like it grabs less. If anything, it should feel like it brakes much better and grabs more. I switched all of my prior vehicles to ceramics and they always stopped better and were quiet. I will eventually on the Routan, but as long as VW replaces them for free, which they recently did, I won't worry about it. I suspect that was a one time benefit and the next time, at or near 40K miles, I will need to buy some ceramics and new rotors and do it myself.

[Tr0p1c_6er]

Does anyone else get a whooshing sound when you mash the pedal? I also can't get the ABS to engage on pavement.

[58kafer]

I don't think the ceramic pads will make the vehicle feel like it grabs less. If anything, it should feel like it brakes much better and grabs more. I switched all of my prior vehicles to ceramics and they always stopped better and were quiet. I will eventually on the Routan, but as long as VW replaces them for free, which they recently did, I won't worry about it. I suspect that was a one time benefit and the next time, at or near 40K miles, I will need to buy some ceramics and new rotors and do it myself.

Ever car I have used ceramic pads on have always grabbed less for the first few stops until the heat builds up into the pads.

Does anyone else get a whooshing sound when you mash the pedal? I also can't get the ABS to engage on pavement.

We have a wurring noise when braking, going back in and taking a tech for a ride to have them hear it.

[rdsmt]

Needs a brake booster.

[rdsmt]

All the brake rotors I have seen are made in the US. They blaim it in the pads overheating the rotors. There is a service bullentin for the 2009 routans only stating to replace the front pads with updated ones and to replace the rotors.

[linus96]

Just had my 09 SE at the dealer for the rear brake rotors, the metal surface of the rotors is pitting like the surface of the moon. The front rotors appear to be normal but the rears need replacement. I have to wait since the service manager told me there are 1400 sets of rear rotors on nationwide back order.
He claimed there is so TSB`s about brakes, I find that amazing, I guess it`s like the passenger headlight housing. Mine started raining inside after 2yrs, totally full of moisture, they replaced it and admitted they had changed quite a few due to faulty seals, but no TSB about that either.
Basically like the old saying," if you don`t ask, you don`t get"

[71sbeetle]

You want to laugh ? You know how at every 6000 miles I got new brake rotors and pads all around, and each time they were supposed to be "a newer version" and those are better and blah blah blah ....

Well, I traded in my 2009 Routan SEL Premium last month with 37202 miles, I had the brakes replaced last at 35918 so just under 1300 miles on the brakes, 635 of those miles were highway driving up to Georgia to trade the van in, no hard stops, nothing excessive, no long downhill runs with the brakes on. My friend that works at the dealer said the brakes were COMPLETELY TOAST all the way around ! They needed all new brakes on the van AGAIN after 1300 miles !!! And people laughed at me when I had my accident and I said the brakes didn't work for crap (4 day old van). I should have sued VW/Chrysler back then

[vrsantana]

Recently got a 2009 Routan SEL with 36,000 miles. I feel an ever so slight pulse occasionally when we come to a stop. Hope this is not a sign of things to come. But, if so, couldn't I just save myself the aggravation at the dealer and the trips back and forth and just buy a really GOOD set of rotors and pads for the van and have them replaced.

Would that solve the issue? Because if me forking out $500-$800 to upgrade what has already been determined to be crappy rotors, I would do that in a heartbeat.

Any thoughts?

[58kafer]

Recently got a 2009 Routan SEL with 36,000 miles. I feel an ever so slight pulse occasionally when we come to a stop. Hope this is not a sign of things to come. But, if so, couldn't I just save myself the aggravation at the dealer and the trips back and forth and just buy a really GOOD set of rotors and pads for the van and have them replaced.

Would that solve the issue? Because if me forking out $500-$800 to upgrade what has already been determined to be crappy rotors, I would do that in a heartbeat.

Any thoughts?

The factory rotors simply put, garbage. Turn the radio off and while driving along slightly press the brake pedal. If it goes from quite to a slight rumbling sound in the back and you can duplicate it everytime you press and release the brake pedal, it's time for rear rotors and pads. The OEM pads for the rear only is $175 OEM. Yes you read that correctly, $175 FOR THE REAR PADS ONLY. There is a company online that offers a lifetime warranty on their rotors, even warpage. But the kicker is they'll only replace them one time. That being said, if you can get 30K out of one set and 30K out of the second free set, even with the increased cost of the rotors you'll still be on top. Our 2010 has 24K and we went thru the originals(all 4), a second set (all 4), and we're on our 3 set (all 4). Roughly 8-9K everytime they were replaced. My wife drives the van and she doesn't hammer on it either. Some guys have gone longer, but I think it all revolves around your terrain.

If you just bought the van at the dealer and it was a CPO, take it back at tell them they missed the brake check and see if they'll set you up with new ones. Chrysler and Dodge vans have extended brake warranties for 3 years or 36K. VW never issued the same, but at the end of the day, it is a Chrysler, so why shouldn't we get the same. At 24K I did not get denied, they(dealer) wanted us to pay for the rear pads and that's when I mentioned the Chryco extended brake warranty and they said they'll call VWOA to see if they'd cover it. Never got a call back, wife picked up the van and all was new and no charge. The dealer took good care of it for us. Not sure if I'll push it just before 36K for a new set, or just bite the bullet and go aftermarket. A friends 08' Caravan had smoked rotors in 12 months (bought new), they went aftermarket and as far as I know they may still have the same rotors on it. They were just ones the local independent shop got for them, I'm sure nothing fancy.When our brakes are out of warranty I'll be going the aftermarket route.

[Volvos Rock]

Hey 58, you talking about BrakePerformance.com?, just got a set for the rear of my Volvo, they sure are pretty, they go on on Friday.

Back to the topic at hand, our fronts were replaced recently at 18k (we bought it at 16k), Ill let VW keep replacing them for free for as long as they will, then it will be either the ones mentioned above ore ATE premium ones, with Akebono pads.

[58kafer]

Hey 58, you talking about BrakePerformance.com?, just got a set for the rear of my Volvo, they sure are pretty, they go on on Friday.

Back to the topic at hand, our fronts were replaced recently at 18k (we bought it at 16k), Ill let VW keep replacing them for free for as long as they will, then it will be either the ones mentioned above ore ATE premium ones, with Akebono pads.

Yep, that's it. I posted it on the first page of this thread some months ago. Glad to hear they are nice quality. I have Brembo cross drilled and Akebono pads on the front of my 97 GMC Yukon. I used to warp stock rotors in a month to a month and a half. Since switching to the cross drilleds I never warped another rotor. I made the mistake of not checking the pads and had a caliper that got stuck and ate the inside of the rotor away, so now I'm on my second set of Brembo's. I have easily been running the Brembo's for over 100K with no warpage. I'll be going the cross drilled once I no longer am getting the stockers under warranty.

[05jettatdi]

I know everyone here has issues with the brakes (as did I)
2009 Routan SEL
Factory replaced front rotors and pads at ~20k miles
At ~ 38k miles the rear pads wore out and were metal on metal
At this time the fronts were warped again so I decided to replace all 4
I bought rotors and pads from advanced auto parts
Plain rotors and wagner Thermoquiet pads
Replaced everything, lubed the slides and bled the fluid.
This next part is the critical part I think the dealer does not do (proper pad bed in)
I personally do the following break in procedure and have been doing so for years of
racing and with great results

~6 progressively harder stops from higher speeds (need a nice quiet road)
40-0 @ 50%
40-0 @ 70%
40-0 @ 95% (ABS will maybe kick in)
60-20 @ 50%
60-20 @ 70%
60-20 @ 90% (ABS will maybe kick in)

Brakes should be very hot and smelly/smokey

drive home with out touching the brakes if possible and let completely cool (overnight)
DO NOT SET THE PARKING BRAKE!!!! (it will cause the pads to stick to the rotors)

This procedure will properly bed in the pads to the rotors and will also anneal the metal to remove any stress

So far ~15k miles and no warping, even with a few panic stops since. I also never had warping on any of the track cars using this process either.

Total cost ~$340 in parts and a couple hours labor
Pads are lifetime warranty and rotors are 2 years

[paf]

Here we go with the brakes again...

15,000 K -- mind you I had rotors replaced (at least that's what the paperwork claims) at 6K.

Brakes are grinding, squeaking and the steering wheel shudder is back again (light but present).

Contacted the dealer to schedule a quick look and got the spiel on "oh, at this the brakes are out of warranty blah blah blah".... we'll see about that.....

Pads are at 1/2 inch in the front and slightly more than 1/4 in the back (not bad for 15K assuming that they were not replaced along with the rotors). Rotors show slight surface groves and "little pits" - I wonder if they were surfaced not replaced the first time around... hmmm...

Let's see how this pans out tomorrow -- for sure when the car hits 36,000K I need to brace myself for a 1st class brake job with complete rotor replacement. May this be a note to prospective buyers of this line of cars or those who are planning on keeping the car more than 36K....

[Zambee500]

Sorry, I may have missed this reading this thread and other similar threads on the brake problems, and apologies if I did. But has anyone had after-market pads/rotors get chewed up fast? I see that a few folks have put after-market pads/rotors on their Routan (from brakeperformance.com and advanced auto, etc.), but unless I missed it, I haven't seen any postings about the after-market stuff getting getting warped and chewed up. I know it's anecdotal, but everything seems to involve just the OEM stuff that the dealership keeps putting on. So has anyone put on after-market pads & rotors and have them wear out in <20k miles?

We put some Napa "premium" rotors and Napa AdaptiveOne (hybrid ceramic/semi-metallic) pads on the fronts about 3k miles ago, and I'll post how they're wearing at the next check. Oddly, Napa doesn't offer the "ultra premium" rotors for the fronts, but they do for the rears. The rears have developed a loud squeak, and they're about gone now, so time to do the rears really soon.

This whole brake issue reminded me of an issue we had with a Jeep Liberty that I inherited in our marriage. The OEMs wore out quickly, especially the fronts. Like 12 or 15k miles. My wife (pre-nuptials) went to one of those brake depots that sells $99 pads w/ lifetime warranty, and we drove it 40-50k miles without a problem and when we sold it there was plenty of life left on the pads. Which led me to the conclusion that it might just be Chrysler sources POS Chinesium brake components, and switching to non-OEM components might solve the problem.

[taxman100]

For what it is worth, I just had our Routan into the dealership for a hard shift from 1st to 2nd gear when cold and the Eco button is on. They checked all four brakes, and said I have about 10% wear.

This is at 11,700 miles, and the dealer estimates I should get 50-70 thousand miles on these brakes, based upon current wear. So maybe the fix was made for 2011.

I heard Chrysler they upgraded the rotors again for 2012's with 17 inch wheels, so maybe the Routan got that as well.

[paf]

Well, just came back from the dealer and as suspected the rotors are starting to warp. Since it was within the 1 year / 12,000 guarantee on parts, the are being very cool about it and replacing the rotors.

Moral of today's story -

- On 12/11/2011 there was another TSB that outlined the brake issue and supposedly new and improved parts are used to correct the issue.

- VWoA keeps absorbing the cost of crappy parts and/or design. Let's hope (from the perspective that it takes time to get it into the service) that this is the fix.

- My dealer rocks the house once again. That's like +4 now (they stand behind their product)

Honestly, the entire experience has made more of a VW service fan than ever -- yeah, the product is crap, the service knows it, VW so far tried to address the issue and don't try to "stick it to the customer". Fair in my opinion. Let's see how long this lasts though....

Well, can't wait to hear a feedback from those who upgraded to aftermarket premium stuff and how its holding out. I will let you know how the latest OEM upgrade does as time passes by.

[wrxin]

My 2 cents. We purchased a 2010 SE about a month ago. 11k miles, CPO, etc.

The brakes had a small shudder right from the get go. It was worse if you braked harder but you could feel it with pretty much any brake effort.

Dealer checked the rotors and all 4 were a bit warped. They told me there was a new design for the pads that is supposed to stop this from happening but interestingly enough they ended up only resurfacing the rotors. They left the old pads in place . They said the pads were in very good shape.

They did all the work under warranty, no charge.

Guess we'll see how it goes but I can say the brakes are very smooth feeling and work well right now, no vibration. Time will tell.

Since they didn't replace the pads, I'm pretty sure I'll have a good case with them if this happens again and they'll have to replace/resurface the rotors again and replace the pads.

[Zambee500]

I'm going to do the rears next weekend. Just ordered Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors and pads for the rears. These were in the "high performance/heavy duty" category and are marketed toward light-duty trucks & SUVs specifically for "hard working fleets, towing/hauling, muscle cars, tuner vehicles, luxury automobiles". Supposed to guarantee an increase in braking performance compared to OEM, and the Routan braking seems to be designed for under-performance. Could just be marketing mumbo-jumbo.

I was going to order from brakeperformance.com, but it takes 5 business days for them to custom make them after ordered, and they're in California so another 5 business days to ship them to the East coast. I wanted to get this done by next weekend, and it was cost prohibitive to expedite shipping given the weights.

I had the fronts done about 4k or 5k miles ago and, as I think I mentioned previously, I went with Napa premium rotors and Napa's Adaptive One ceramic hybrid pads. I'll take a look next weekend to see how they're doing. I was going to put the same set-up on the rear, because I've been happy so far, but I just saw that the friction rating on the Adaptive One outer-pads are rated FE (inner are FF) which is on the low end. I wanted to find something to increase braking ability, and found these Raybestos. Good reviews from what I've read online, but they seem to have moved manufacturing to China (from the U.S. first, to Canada 2nd, and now China). I was a little reluctant to order Raybestos b/c I've always thought of them as run-of-the-mill brand for brake components sold at the big-box auto parts stores, sort of like what Fram is to filters. And now this made-in-China thing. So we'll see.

I'm hopeful that this whole brake problem is because of Chrysler's pi$$-poor sourcing of OEM parts, and going after-market (with just about anything) will solve the problem. But I will keep everyone posted about the Raybestos, and the Napa parts on the front.

[blizno]

Here we go again...

Our 09 has had issues since day 1 with the "shudder". They have replaced brake pads, resurfaced rotors and even replaced the rotors. I am at the dealer now and they tell me they can't replace the warped rotors with approval. I was like YOU JUST REPLACED THEM AT 18K!. They said they see the history and know the issues with the brakes but need approval. They are keeping my work order open and will call me with a resolution. WTF!

[Zambee500]

Ask them to put you in a courtesy vehicle on their dime until they get the necessary approvals and figure out how they are going to solve their (not your) problem, and I'll bet they'll figure it all out quick enough. If they refuse to replace your rotors, tell them you want it in writing from the Service Dept. Mgr. that 18k miles on a set of rotors is "normal" and acceptable. And if they're willing to do that, I'd go raise holy hell with VWoA.

[58kafer]

Remind the dealer that Chyrsler extended the brake warranty for 3yrs/36K. Mind you the Chryco customers have a deductible, I have not paid anything for my 3 brake jobs, so don't ruin it But seriously there is an extension for all 08 to 11 Chrysler vans, mind you since your is an 09 you MIGHT by purchase date be S.O.L., even though your under by 1/2 on mileage. That is the downer on keeping the mileages low. I reminded my dealer the last time I was in and they covered it. I don't think I'm going to push for a 4th set. I'd rather just put better quality aftermarket rotors and pads on and see how they do.

Below is from watersketch on chryslerminivan.net
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sho...nd-Chrysler-TC


Chrysler Group LlC

FRONT BRAKE LIMITED WARRANTY EXTENSION FOR 2009 DODGE GRAND CARAVAN AND CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY VEHICLES

Dear _________:
The Basic Limited Warranty applicable to your vehicle covers the cost of parts and labor necessary to repair braking components that fail due to a defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation within the 12 months period following your vehicle's in service date or until there are 12,000 miles on the odometer, whichever conies first. Chrysler is offering an extension to the terms of your
Basic Limited Warranty for the purpose of enhancing your overall experience as a Chrysler customer.

The problem is...

The front brakes on your vehicle (VIN: ______________ ) may need pads and rotors
replaced earlier than expected. The brake performance is not affected in any way by
this issue.

What your dealer will do...
Should the front brake components on your vehicle need to be replaced due to a
defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation after the expiration of 12
months or 12,000 miles but before 24 months or 24,000 miles on the odometer,
whichever comes first, Chrysler will pay for the cost of parts and labor necessary to
replace them less a $50 deductible.

Furthermore should the front brake components on your vehicle need to be replaced
due to a defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation after the expiration
of 24 months or 24,000 miles on the odometer but before 36 months or 36,000 miles
on the. odometer, whichever comes first, Chrysler will pay for the cost of parts and
labor necessary to replace them less a $100 deductible.

What you must do...

Simply contact your dealer to schedule a service appointment, if you feel that your
front brakes are in need of replacement. Remember to bring this letter with you to your
dealer. Please make sure to store this letter with your vehicle's other warranty information
for future reference.

If you need help...
If you have questions or concerns which your dealer is unable to resolve, please contact
1-800 Chrysler (247-9753) or 1-800-4-A-I?odge (2-36343)

If you have already experienced Hils condition and have paid to have it repaired, please send your original receipts and/or other adequate proof ofpayment to the following address for reimbursement less the applicable deductible: ..

Chrysler Customer Assistance
P.O. Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004
Attention: Reimbursement

Chrysler places great value on your loyalty andsatisfaction with YO\lr vehicle, and as such we apologize in the event that this issue may have caused you any inconvenience.
Thank you again for your loyalty,

Chrysler Group LLC

0072480/#43823 X24




Here is another link to another guys paperwork:

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sho...brake+warranty

[Zambee500]

Fronts only? Interesting.