Just had my 09 SE at the dealer for the rear brake rotors, the metal surface of the rotors is pitting like the surface of the moon. The front rotors appear to be normal but the rears need replacement. I have to wait since the service manager told me there are 1400 sets of rear rotors on nationwide back order.
He claimed there is so TSB`s about brakes, I find that amazing, I guess it`s like the passenger headlight housing. Mine started raining inside after 2yrs, totally full of moisture, they replaced it and admitted they had changed quite a few due to faulty seals, but no TSB about that either.
Basically like the old saying," if you don`t ask, you don`t get"
You want to laugh ? You know how at every 6000 miles I got new brake rotors and pads all around, and each time they were supposed to be "a newer version" and those are better and blah blah blah ....
Well, I traded in my 2009 Routan SEL Premium last month with 37202 miles, I had the brakes replaced last at 35918 so just under 1300 miles on the brakes, 635 of those miles were highway driving up to Georgia to trade the van in, no hard stops, nothing excessive, no long downhill runs with the brakes on. My friend that works at the dealer said the brakes were COMPLETELY TOAST all the way around ! They needed all new brakes on the van AGAIN after 1300 miles !!! And people laughed at me when I had my accident and I said the brakes didn't work for crap (4 day old van). I should have sued VW/Chrysler back then
Recently got a 2009 Routan SEL with 36,000 miles. I feel an ever so slight pulse occasionally when we come to a stop. Hope this is not a sign of things to come. But, if so, couldn't I just save myself the aggravation at the dealer and the trips back and forth and just buy a really GOOD set of rotors and pads for the van and have them replaced.
Would that solve the issue? Because if me forking out $500-$800 to upgrade what has already been determined to be crappy rotors, I would do that in a heartbeat.
If you just bought the van at the dealer and it was a CPO, take it back at tell them they missed the brake check and see if they'll set you up with new ones. Chrysler and Dodge vans have extended brake warranties for 3 years or 36K. VW never issued the same, but at the end of the day, it is a Chrysler, so why shouldn't we get the same. At 24K I did not get denied, they(dealer) wanted us to pay for the rear pads and that's when I mentioned the Chryco extended brake warranty and they said they'll call VWOA to see if they'd cover it. Never got a call back, wife picked up the van and all was new and no charge. The dealer took good care of it for us. Not sure if I'll push it just before 36K for a new set, or just bite the bullet and go aftermarket. A friends 08' Caravan had smoked rotors in 12 months (bought new), they went aftermarket and as far as I know they may still have the same rotors on it. They were just ones the local independent shop got for them, I'm sure nothing fancy.When our brakes are out of warranty I'll be going the aftermarket route.
Hey 58, you talking about BrakePerformance.com?, just got a set for the rear of my Volvo, they sure are pretty, they go on on Friday.
Back to the topic at hand, our fronts were replaced recently at 18k (we bought it at 16k), Ill let VW keep replacing them for free for as long as they will, then it will be either the ones mentioned above ore ATE premium ones, with Akebono pads.
10' Routan SE, 28k
09' Volvo S80
98' Chevy K1500
13' Ford Interceptor Utility
Yep, that's it. I posted it on the first page of this thread some months ago. Glad to hear they are nice quality. I have Brembo cross drilled and Akebono pads on the front of my 97 GMC Yukon. I used to warp stock rotors in a month to a month and a half. Since switching to the cross drilleds I never warped another rotor. I made the mistake of not checking the pads and had a caliper that got stuck and ate the inside of the rotor away, so now I'm on my second set of Brembo's. I have easily been running the Brembo's for over 100K with no warpage. I'll be going the cross drilled once I no longer am getting the stockers under warranty.
I know everyone here has issues with the brakes (as did I)
2009 Routan SEL
Factory replaced front rotors and pads at ~20k miles
At ~ 38k miles the rear pads wore out and were metal on metal
At this time the fronts were warped again so I decided to replace all 4
I bought rotors and pads from advanced auto parts
Plain rotors and wagner Thermoquiet pads
Replaced everything, lubed the slides and bled the fluid.
This next part is the critical part I think the dealer does not do (proper pad bed in)
I personally do the following break in procedure and have been doing so for years of
racing and with great results
~6 progressively harder stops from higher speeds (need a nice quiet road)
40-0 @ 50%
40-0 @ 70%
40-0 @ 95% (ABS will maybe kick in)
60-20 @ 50%
60-20 @ 70%
60-20 @ 90% (ABS will maybe kick in)
Brakes should be very hot and smelly/smokey
drive home with out touching the brakes if possible and let completely cool (overnight)
DO NOT SET THE PARKING BRAKE!!!! (it will cause the pads to stick to the rotors)
This procedure will properly bed in the pads to the rotors and will also anneal the metal to remove any stress
So far ~15k miles and no warping, even with a few panic stops since. I also never had warping on any of the track cars using this process either.
Total cost ~$340 in parts and a couple hours labor
Pads are lifetime warranty and rotors are 2 years
Here we go with the brakes again...
15,000 K -- mind you I had rotors replaced (at least that's what the paperwork claims) at 6K.
Brakes are grinding, squeaking and the steering wheel shudder is back again (light but present).
Contacted the dealer to schedule a quick look and got the spiel on "oh, at this the brakes are out of warranty blah blah blah".... we'll see about that.....
Pads are at 1/2 inch in the front and slightly more than 1/4 in the back (not bad for 15K assuming that they were not replaced along with the rotors). Rotors show slight surface groves and "little pits" - I wonder if they were surfaced not replaced the first time around... hmmm...
Let's see how this pans out tomorrow -- for sure when the car hits 36,000K I need to brace myself for a 1st class brake job with complete rotor replacement. May this be a note to prospective buyers of this line of cars or those who are planning on keeping the car more than 36K....
Sorry, I may have missed this reading this thread and other similar threads on the brake problems, and apologies if I did. But has anyone had after-market pads/rotors get chewed up fast? I see that a few folks have put after-market pads/rotors on their Routan (from brakeperformance.com and advanced auto, etc.), but unless I missed it, I haven't seen any postings about the after-market stuff getting getting warped and chewed up. I know it's anecdotal, but everything seems to involve just the OEM stuff that the dealership keeps putting on. So has anyone put on after-market pads & rotors and have them wear out in
For what it is worth, I just had our Routan into the dealership for a hard shift from 1st to 2nd gear when cold and the Eco button is on. They checked all four brakes, and said I have about 10% wear.
This is at 11,700 miles, and the dealer estimates I should get 50-70 thousand miles on these brakes, based upon current wear. So maybe the fix was made for 2011.
I heard Chrysler they upgraded the rotors again for 2012's with 17 inch wheels, so maybe the Routan got that as well.
2011 Volkswagen Routan SE w/RSE -totaled 8/8/14 with 43,700 miles
2002 Mercury Grand Marquis LSE - 133k
2000 Toyota Corolla CE - 183k
1967 Ford Galaxie 500XL convertible
Well, just came back from the dealer and as suspected the rotors are starting to warp. Since it was within the 1 year / 12,000 guarantee on parts, the are being very cool about it and replacing the rotors.
Moral of today's story -
- On 12/11/2011 there was another TSB that outlined the brake issue and supposedly new and improved parts are used to correct the issue.
- VWoA keeps absorbing the cost of crappy parts and/or design. Let's hope (from the perspective that it takes time to get it into the service) that this is the fix.
- My dealer rocks the house once again. That's like +4 now (they stand behind their product)
Honestly, the entire experience has made more of a VW service fan than ever -- yeah, the product is crap, the service knows it, VW so far tried to address the issue and don't try to "stick it to the customer". Fair in my opinion. Let's see how long this lasts though....
Well, can't wait to hear a feedback from those who upgraded to aftermarket premium stuff and how its holding out. I will let you know how the latest OEM upgrade does as time passes by.
Last edited by paf; 02-07-2012 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Content change!
My 2 cents. We purchased a 2010 SE about a month ago. 11k miles, CPO, etc.
The brakes had a small shudder right from the get go. It was worse if you braked harder but you could feel it with pretty much any brake effort.
Dealer checked the rotors and all 4 were a bit warped. They told me there was a new design for the pads that is supposed to stop this from happening but interestingly enough they ended up only resurfacing the rotors. They left the old pads in place . They said the pads were in very good shape.
They did all the work under warranty, no charge.
Guess we'll see how it goes but I can say the brakes are very smooth feeling and work well right now, no vibration. Time will tell.
Since they didn't replace the pads, I'm pretty sure I'll have a good case with them if this happens again and they'll have to replace/resurface the rotors again and replace the pads.
I'm going to do the rears next weekend. Just ordered Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors and pads for the rears. These were in the "high performance/heavy duty" category and are marketed toward light-duty trucks & SUVs specifically for "hard working fleets, towing/hauling, muscle cars, tuner vehicles, luxury automobiles". Supposed to guarantee an increase in braking performance compared to OEM, and the Routan braking seems to be designed for under-performance. Could just be marketing mumbo-jumbo.
I was going to order from brakeperformance.com, but it takes 5 business days for them to custom make them after ordered, and they're in California so another 5 business days to ship them to the East coast. I wanted to get this done by next weekend, and it was cost prohibitive to expedite shipping given the weights.
I had the fronts done about 4k or 5k miles ago and, as I think I mentioned previously, I went with Napa premium rotors and Napa's Adaptive One ceramic hybrid pads. I'll take a look next weekend to see how they're doing. I was going to put the same set-up on the rear, because I've been happy so far, but I just saw that the friction rating on the Adaptive One outer-pads are rated FE (inner are FF) which is on the low end. I wanted to find something to increase braking ability, and found these Raybestos. Good reviews from what I've read online, but they seem to have moved manufacturing to China (from the U.S. first, to Canada 2nd, and now China). I was a little reluctant to order Raybestos b/c I've always thought of them as run-of-the-mill brand for brake components sold at the big-box auto parts stores, sort of like what Fram is to filters. And now this made-in-China thing. So we'll see.
I'm hopeful that this whole brake problem is because of Chrysler's pi$$-poor sourcing of OEM parts, and going after-market (with just about anything) will solve the problem. But I will keep everyone posted about the Raybestos, and the Napa parts on the front.
Here we go again...
Our 09 has had issues since day 1 with the "shudder". They have replaced brake pads, resurfaced rotors and even replaced the rotors. I am at the dealer now and they tell me they can't replace the warped rotors with approval. I was like YOU JUST REPLACED THEM AT 18K!. They said they see the history and know the issues with the brakes but need approval. They are keeping my work order open and will call me with a resolution. WTF!
Last edited by blizno; 03-07-2012 at 03:17 PM.
Ask them to put you in a courtesy vehicle on their dime until they get the necessary approvals and figure out how they are going to solve their (not your) problem, and I'll bet they'll figure it all out quick enough. If they refuse to replace your rotors, tell them you want it in writing from the Service Dept. Mgr. that 18k miles on a set of rotors is "normal" and acceptable. And if they're willing to do that, I'd go raise holy hell with VWoA.
Remind the dealer that Chyrsler extended the brake warranty for 3yrs/36K. Mind you the Chryco customers have a deductible, I have not paid anything for my 3 brake jobs, so don't ruin it But seriously there is an extension for all 08 to 11 Chrysler vans, mind you since your is an 09 you MIGHT by purchase date be S.O.L., even though your under by 1/2 on mileage. That is the downer on keeping the mileages low. I reminded my dealer the last time I was in and they covered it. I don't think I'm going to push for a 4th set. I'd rather just put better quality aftermarket rotors and pads on and see how they do.
Below is from watersketch on chryslerminivan.net
Chrysler Group LlC
FRONT BRAKE LIMITED WARRANTY EXTENSION FOR 2009 DODGE GRAND CARAVAN AND CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY VEHICLES
The Basic Limited Warranty applicable to your vehicle covers the cost of parts and labor necessary to repair braking components that fail due to a defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation within the 12 months period following your vehicle's in service date or until there are 12,000 miles on the odometer, whichever conies first. Chrysler is offering an extension to the terms of your
Basic Limited Warranty for the purpose of enhancing your overall experience as a Chrysler customer.
The problem is...
The front brakes on your vehicle (VIN: ______________ ) may need pads and rotors
replaced earlier than expected. The brake performance is not affected in any way by
What your dealer will do...
Should the front brake components on your vehicle need to be replaced due to a
defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation after the expiration of 12
months or 12,000 miles but before 24 months or 24,000 miles on the odometer,
whichever comes first, Chrysler will pay for the cost of parts and labor necessary to
replace them less a $50 deductible.
Furthermore should the front brake components on your vehicle need to be replaced
due to a defect in materials, workmanship or factory preparation after the expiration
of 24 months or 24,000 miles on the odometer but before 36 months or 36,000 miles
on the. odometer, whichever comes first, Chrysler will pay for the cost of parts and
labor necessary to replace them less a $100 deductible.
What you must do...
Simply contact your dealer to schedule a service appointment, if you feel that your
front brakes are in need of replacement. Remember to bring this letter with you to your
dealer. Please make sure to store this letter with your vehicle's other warranty information
for future reference.
If you need help...
If you have questions or concerns which your dealer is unable to resolve, please contact
1-800 Chrysler (247-9753) or 1-800-4-A-I?odge (2-36343)
If you have already experienced Hils condition and have paid to have it repaired, please send your original receipts and/or other adequate proof ofpayment to the following address for reimbursement less the applicable deductible: ..
Chrysler Customer Assistance
P.O. Box 21-8004
Auburn Hills, MI 48321-8004
Chrysler places great value on your loyalty andsatisfaction with YO\lr vehicle, and as such we apologize in the event that this issue may have caused you any inconvenience.
Thank you again for your loyalty,
Chrysler Group LLC
Here is another link to another guys paperwork:
I received a call from the service adviser in the afternoon (same day as I posted). He advised that his Manager would replace the rear rotors as "one time courtesy". I am not happy with the one time courtesy replacement since this is an ongoing issue with the vehicle. I made an appointment and rotors were replaced. My issue is still with VW. I can't blame the dealer at this point. I have been thinking of getting aftermarket brakes and rotors as some of you have. I guess it's the principal of VW knowing they have inferior brake parts and continue to use them. They should not be left off the hook that easy IMO.
Now for the bad part on your end, you drive and 09', it's currently 2012, by checking you in service date will probably put you past 3 years. Technically, they are doing you a favor----IF you are past the 3 years. While I don't agree with it (read, I'm on your side) they have made the concessions, it's just unfortunate the you don't rack up that many miles, and you can't blame VW/Chrysler for that. We currently have about 8K on our last set of rotors, and much to my surprise there have been no signs of warpage as of yet. So for me the next set will be on me and I'll be going aftermarket for sure. This has been our only major problem with our van and I knew about this going into it, doesn't make it better, but i was prepared for it at some point.
Don't stress over 10 ft lbs on wheel lug nuts. There's really no notable difference between 95 and 105, especially with the regular old factory wheels. The accuracy of the torque setting usually gets destroyed by the person using the torque wrench (or worse yet torque stick on an impact gun) because they continue to push on the wrench after its "clicked" or the car is rocking as they tighten or they dropped their wrench a bunch of times or it hasn't been calibrated in years or its a $15 torque wrench from Harbor Freight, you get the idea.
Generally speaking, every bolt on a car has a torque range as opposed to a specific number. So 95 vs 105 is really not that big a deal.