Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    The Car Lounge
    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 46

    Thread: Why is it that every other 996 for sale has a remanufactured engine?

    1. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 7th, 2006
      Posts
      9,229
      Vehicles
      ///M Roadster
      07-13-2010 04:23 PM #1
      I mean people say that the IMS issue affects maybe 10 percent of 996s, but from my anecdotal evidence, it seems like it's maybe 50 percent.

      I think this is the one major issue that really takes a crap on the 996's resale value. As a potential buyer, I don't know whether I should be happy or angry.

      The only water cooled Porsches that are legitimately reliable are the GT3s, GT2s, 09+ cars, and the turbos. And coincidentally (probably not), those cars are particularly expensive.
      Last edited by 20aeman; 07-13-2010 at 04:28 PM.

    2. Geriatric Member ATL_Av8r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 17th, 2002
      Location
      Gapiana
      Posts
      42,700
      07-13-2010 04:29 PM #2
      It's the Greek god Lelanto's way of saying "**** you Porsche! switch to water cooling, will you?"
      MemeGate 2012 - First Responder, post #2

      Quote Originally Posted by .skully.
      Mike, quote me in your signature

    3. Member freedomgli's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 25th, 2002
      Location
      USA
      Posts
      9,420
      07-13-2010 04:35 PM #3
      My friend regularly tracks his 986 Boxster and he tells me the motors are good for 100 hours of track use. IIRC he's on his third motor. Not too bad at $15k a pop. That's only like $300 / HPDE you have to put aside in a rainy day account for your eventual motor replacement.

    4. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 25th, 2008
      Location
      TX
      Posts
      753
      Vehicles
      2002 Z28, 2013 Prius C
      07-13-2010 04:44 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by freedomgli View Post
      My friend regularly tracks his 986 Boxster and he tells me the motors are good for 100 hours of track use. IIRC he's on his third motor. Not too bad at $15k a pop. That's only like $300 / HPDE you have to put aside in a rainy day account for your eventual motor replacement.
      You can't be serious, not too bad? That's $30k (I don't count the original engine) dumped into a Boxster. Don't get me wrong, the Boxster is a great car but that is simply outrageous.

      Edit: I hope my sarcasm meter is broken.
      Last edited by nix6speed; 07-13-2010 at 04:47 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by cretinx View Post
      If you're into big, heavy, stupid American cars you'd do much better with an F-body.

    5. Senior Member JustinCSVT's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 3rd, 2004
      Location
      Atlanta, GA
      Posts
      20,724
      Vehicles
      2013 Mustang Boss 302
      07-13-2010 04:45 PM #5
      Not too bad? $15K? I hope that's sarcasm.

    6. Member White_Turbo's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 25th, 2002
      Posts
      2,057
      Vehicles
      2009 Nissan GTR, 1995 Nissan 240sx
      07-13-2010 04:54 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      I mean people say that the IMS issue affects maybe 10 percent of 996s, but from my anecdotal evidence, it seems like it's maybe 50 percent.
      If you ever studied probability in college, you will know why this % thing doesn't work out the way you thought it would.

    7. Member Dan92SLC's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 27th, 1999
      Location
      SK RI
      Posts
      6,333
      Vehicles
      08 Mazda 3 hatch, 71 911T, 94 Ranger XLT
      07-13-2010 04:57 PM #7
      Though best known for his work with the Type IV engine, Jake Raby has another company that specializes in updating, modifying, and repairing watercooled flat sixes.

      http://flat6innovations.com/

      Strongly recommend for 996/986 owners and possible owners-to-be.

    8. 07-13-2010 04:57 PM #8
      Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous. I briefly considered a 996 as a (slightly) more practical replacement for my Boxster, but I decided that it wasn't worth the gamble... this time around anyway. That said, you might get lucky and stumble on to one of those 100k+ mile trouble free cars.

      More info:
      http://flat6innovations.com/

    9. Member sandiegan's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 25th, 2005
      Location
      LA Section 8 Housing
      Posts
      4,587
      Vehicles
      A bicycle.
      07-13-2010 05:04 PM #9
      I'd only get a Boxster with the newly redesigned engines sans RMS.

    10. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 29th, 2004
      Location
      Annapolis, MD
      Posts
      38,302
      Vehicles
      '15 5.0, '13 Focus, '97 Wrangler, '90 Miata
      07-13-2010 05:16 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
      Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous. I briefly considered a 996 as a (slightly) more practical replacement for my Boxster, but I decided that it wasn't worth the gamble... this time around anyway. That said, you might get lucky and stumble on to one of those 100k+ mile trouble free cars.

      More info:
      http://flat6innovations.com/
      Just read the entire IMS retrofit series. Very cool stuff.
      www.leftlanenews.com
      @SSLByron, @leftlanenews
      Domestic Muscle Owners Not-So-Anonymous
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      Can we just have more boob pics, please?

    11. 07-13-2010 05:50 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by PassSedanGLX View Post
      Just read the entire IMS retrofit series. Very cool stuff.
      It is pretty cool. My issue is how do we know that his 'fix' is any better than the original Porsche design? He has a much, much smaller sample with an itty bitty fraction of the mileage. Not saying that it isn't a higher quality product, just that there isn't all that much to back it up in the real world.

    12. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 7th, 2006
      Posts
      9,229
      Vehicles
      ///M Roadster
      07-13-2010 05:55 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Samson View Post
      It is pretty cool. My issue is how do we know that his 'fix' is any better than the original Porsche design? He has a much, much smaller sample with an itty bitty fraction of the mileage. Not saying that it isn't a higher quality product, just that there isn't all that much to back it up in the real world.
      That's what I took away from it as well. It's a better bearing but is it the bearing truly at fault here? Or is there some other deep rooted issue? And even if the bearing is better, it just means a longer fatigue life, so you're just delaying the engine's inevitable destruction.

      Either way, it's probably a good idea to consider the IMS bearing a wear and tear item, and replace it like you would a timing belt at scheduled intervals....but who's willing to drop a transmission every 30k and replace a stupid (600 dollar) bearing just so your engine doesn't eat itself.
      Last edited by 20aeman; 07-13-2010 at 05:59 PM.

    13. 07-13-2010 06:35 PM #13
      All IMS engines have the potential for failer (even 06'-08'). The gradual improvements to the design over the years has helped but not totally eliminated the potential failers. Most privateer race teams and shop techs agree, frequent oil changes (3k miles, and after DE's) go a LONG way toward ensuring IMS longevity. The Porsche recommended 10k oil change intervals are a joke.

    14. Member XwalkerX's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 7th, 2002
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      4,310
      Vehicles
      1955 Panhead l 1990 Blockhead l 1970 C-10 SWB l 1989 BMW 325i
      07-13-2010 06:41 PM #14
      so buy a turbo?


      1989 325i
      1970 C10 swb
      1955 Panhead
      1990 Blockhead

    15. 07-13-2010 06:45 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      That's what I took away from it as well. It's a better bearing but is it the bearing truly at fault here? Or is there some other deep rooted issue? And even if the bearing is better, it just means a longer fatigue life, so you're just delaying the engine's inevitable destruction.

      Either way, it's probably a good idea to consider the IMS bearing a wear and tear item, and replace it like you would a timing belt at scheduled intervals....but who's willing to drop a transmission every 30k and replace a stupid (600 dollar) bearing just so your engine doesn't eat itself.
      The stock bearing is a "sealed" unit that comes packed with grease from the factory. The problem is that the "seal" is poor and lightweight motor oils (e.g. 0W40) can seep in and actually wash away the grease inside the bearing. Then you're left with lightweight motor oil attempting to do the job of lubricating components that were meant to be lubricated with heavy weight grease. Failure is only a matter of time.

      The Raby/LN Engineering ceramic IMS bearing upgrade replaces the sealed bearing with ceramic ball bearings that can withstand much higher temperatures and are intended to be lubricated with engine oil.

      I have an appointment with Flat6Innovations a week from Friday to have the IMS upgrade done on my 2002 986S (along with a few other modifications while he has everything apart). The car only has 50k miles, with no IMS issues so far, but the upgrade seems like cheap insurance to me. I'm not claiming that the Raby IMS bearing is a magic bullet or anything, but I know I'll sleep better at night.

    16. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 7th, 2006
      Posts
      9,229
      Vehicles
      ///M Roadster
      07-13-2010 06:46 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by XwalkerX View Post
      so buy a turbo?

      Yeah, that looks like the only option right now. Gonna have to save up some more. Or maybe a mint 930.

    17. Banned
      Join Date
      Jul 30th, 2004
      Location
      Fancy in the Not fancy, CT
      Posts
      17,869
      07-13-2010 06:47 PM #17
      Racing is NEVER cheap, especially with a Porsche.

      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      Yeah, that looks like the only option right now. Gonna have to save up some more. Or maybe a mint 930.
      If replacing an engine "here and there" is not one of your financial options I suggest you stay away from Porsche all together.

    18. Member XwalkerX's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 7th, 2002
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      4,310
      Vehicles
      1955 Panhead l 1990 Blockhead l 1970 C-10 SWB l 1989 BMW 325i
      07-13-2010 06:49 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      Yeah, that looks like the only option right now. Gonna have to save up some more. Or maybe a mint 930.
      keep saving.

      you wont be dissapointed...


      1989 325i
      1970 C10 swb
      1955 Panhead
      1990 Blockhead

    19. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 7th, 2006
      Posts
      9,229
      Vehicles
      ///M Roadster
      07-13-2010 06:52 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Go4Broke View Post
      The stock bearing is a "sealed" unit that comes packed with grease from the factory. The problem is that the "seal" is poor and lightweight motor oils (e.g. 0W40) can seep in and actually wash away the grease inside the bearing. Then you're left with lightweight motor oil attempting to do the job of lubricating components that were meant to be lubricated with heavy weight grease. Failure is only a matter of time.

      The Raby/LN Engineering ceramic IMS bearing upgrade replaces the sealed bearing with ceramic ball bearings that can withstand much higher temperatures and are intended to be lubricated with engine oil.

      I have an appointment with Flat6Innovations a week from Friday to have the IMS upgrade done on my 2002 986S (along with a few other modifications while he has everything apart). The car only has 50k miles, with no IMS issues so far, but the upgrade seems like cheap insurance to me. I'm not claiming that the Raby IMS bearing is a magic bullet or anything, but I know I'll sleep better at night.
      Even that's a mixed bag though, because some people take the inside seal off the stock bearing and run it that way. Their logic is that without the seal, the engine oil does a better job of lubricating the bearing.

      Either the heat burns away the sealed bearing's grease and you need motor oil to lubricate it or the motor oil washes away the bearing grease and you need a better bearing. But as you can see here, there are a lot of theories and schools of thought on the subject.

    20. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 7th, 2006
      Posts
      9,229
      Vehicles
      ///M Roadster
      07-13-2010 06:58 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by VdubChaos View Post
      Racing is NEVER cheap, especially with a Porsche.



      If replacing an engine "here and there" is not one of your financial options I suggest you stay away from Porsche all together.
      Racing isn't cheap, hence why I'm not racing. Replacing an engine "here and there" isn't one of my financial options because it's just plain stupid. I'm not gonna buy a C4S @ 30k, wait for it to blow an engine up, then spend another 15k to get it running when I could have just saved that 15K and gotten a turbo. I don't get anything for my money here, there is no benefit for me in replacing engines here and there. That's the problem.

    21. Member 10Ten's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 29th, 2007
      Location
      Dave's not here.
      Posts
      6,579
      Vehicles
      heavy understeer and snap oversteer. PQ35 perfect.
      07-13-2010 07:45 PM #21
      where can i read more about this stuff? the different engine versions, their problems vs. robustness?

    22. Member XwalkerX's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 7th, 2002
      Location
      SoCal
      Posts
      4,310
      Vehicles
      1955 Panhead l 1990 Blockhead l 1970 C-10 SWB l 1989 BMW 325i
      07-13-2010 08:20 PM #22
      6speedonline.com

      1989 325i
      1970 C10 swb
      1955 Panhead
      1990 Blockhead

    23. Member 10Ten's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 29th, 2007
      Location
      Dave's not here.
      Posts
      6,579
      Vehicles
      heavy understeer and snap oversteer. PQ35 perfect.
      07-13-2010 08:21 PM #23
      thx

    24. 07-13-2010 08:26 PM #24
      LOTS of information on 986forum.com as well. Jake Raby is a regular on that site.

    25. Member Avus's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 20th, 2000
      Location
      Toronto
      Posts
      9,172
      Vehicles
      2008 Hyundai Accent, 2007 S2000
      07-13-2010 08:33 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      I mean people say that the IMS issue affects maybe 10 percent of 996s, but from my anecdotal evidence, it seems like it's maybe 50 percent.

      I think this is the one major issue that really takes a crap on the 996's resale value. As a potential buyer, I don't know whether I should be happy or angry.

      The only water cooled Porsches that are legitimately reliable are the GT3s, GT2s, 09+ cars, and the turbos. And coincidentally (probably not), those cars are particularly expensive.
      from the sound of it, they are like xbox360.

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •