DSG or Manual? Vote!

[mookieblaylock]

That's not bad at all when you consider the clutch can last well over 100,000 miles.

they go way earlier,apparently, with added horsepower but ez to replace with a sachs. Mods with dsg you are running on faith cuz you cant just replace the clutches cheaply, that said dsg and stage 1 or 2 might be in my future

[Pathfinder2041]

Do some searching on the APR web sight. The have an early A3 running a Stage III on the 2.0T with DSG, and are currently driving the crap out of it to get it to fail, and haven't made it go yet. VW may have learned the lessons with mad mechatronic units and recalls, and built the DSGs a little more robustly with the MK VI evolution of the transmission.

[mookieblaylock]

Do some searching on the APR web sight.

yea on the APR website, i'm not sure that's the best place to get unbiased info, no offense to apr. But you might be right as i havent read about anything evil beyond the mechatronich stuff. I certainly would not do too many hard take offs with 350 hp because 10k is a bunch to spend on a new tranny

[1337cshacker]

yea on the APR website, i'm not sure that's the best place to get unbiased info, no offense to apr. But you might be right as i havent read about anything evil beyond the mechatronich stuff. I certainly would not do too many hard take offs with 350 hp because 10k is a bunch to spend on a new tranny

Unless you shift like an ape your only going to wear the clutch, plus if you start easy then nail it with easy shifts your all good. The original clutch on my 77 zed holds great.

Manual appears to be winning and I concur.

An m3 driver I know has software for his trans that will always keep him in the higest rev's possible/autodownshift perfectly, is there an option for this or mod for dsg? It destroys the track.

[Tr0p1c_6er]

Three pedals please...

[Cleaf41]

I think you really have to drive the car and see how it feels with both transmissions. It is more tricky to drive a turbo car with a manual than a NA car, the engine is just not as responsive. I enjoy the DSG it is great and I had an 04 .:R. If we do end up seeing the new .:R, than I will make my decision.

[cnimativ]

Three pedals please...

++++++++++

[R20]

I love manuals and that's what i've driven all my life. However, I voted DSG cause it seems its what suits the R better. However I would test drive both and decide.

[CSlowR32]

If i'm not mistaken...Manual transmission would still be expensive...when your clutch goes out.

I heard $600 for clutch replacement service??

Worse yet, miss a gearshift - get hung up in neutral and over rev the engine = damaging the engine and possibly a transmission rebuild.

Guys - the DSG has gears, clutches, throttle blips on the downshift, and record setting nano-second upshifts. Unless you are more accurate with the gear shift placement, clutch awareness, launch control, and heal/toe throttle management, and nano-second gear changes = the DSG wins. This may be hard for the traditionalists out there but DSG does gear changing faster and better than we do.

[S4mig]

This may be hard for the traditionalists out there but DSG does gear changing faster and better than we do.

Guess you've never driven a DSG car in traffic I take it? Or even at all for that manner. DSG only does one thing well, upshifting. Launch control, downshifts, reverse, and slow speeds DSG ain't what it's cracked up to be.

[B5Speedo]

Manual. If I want to push buttons I'll play a video game.

[brekdown29]

DSG because it's faster and more convenient.

[cnimativ]

Manual. If I want to push buttons I'll play a video game.

+++++++

DSG? Just mod the steering wheel to a PS3 controller.

[pensive.d]

This may be hard for the traditionalists out there but DSG does gear changing faster and better than we do.

Don't roll your eyes at me mister. Faster and better isn't even the point. The point is this: DSG JUST ISN'T AS MUCH FUN.

If I'm going to spend $35K or whatever on a performance car, I damn sure want to enjoy driving it.

No doubt there will someday be an android programmed with the ability to satisfy a woman better than humanly possible. Would I want to delegate all of my lovemaking to that android? I think not.

[quailallstar]

Don't roll your eyes at me mister. Faster and better isn't even the point. The point is this: DSG JUST ISN'T AS MUCH FUN.

If I'm going to spend $35K or whatever on a performance car, I damn sure want to enjoy driving it.

No doubt there will someday be an android programmed with the ability to satisfy a woman better than humanly possible. Would I want to delegate all of my lovemaking to that android? I think not.

I vote this as reply of the year! Well said sir

[pensive.d]

heh, thanks

[Ian_VR6]

Both transmissions will be awesome. I vote for both.

[Motohip]

DSG is losing, how do I vote twice?

[VWRedux]

I vote this as reply of the year! Well said sir

Originally Posted by pensive.d
Don't roll your eyes at me mister. Faster and better isn't even the point. The point is this: DSG JUST ISN'T AS MUCH FUN.

If I'm going to spend $35K or whatever on a performance car, I damn sure want to enjoy driving it.

No doubt there will someday be an android programmed with the ability to satisfy a woman better than humanly possible. Would I want to delegate all of my lovemaking to that android? I think not.

X1 Best Anti-DSG Post Ever!

[slidemx5]

agreed, just because a DSG is "faster" doesn't mean thats the choice for many. Manual transmission is fun, and engaging. I wouldn't drive a car that wasn't, and none of the 10 cars i've owned have been anything BUT manual.

Performance car or not, manual transmission is just the way to go for drive engagement.

[vagmobile]

All the anti-DSG folk better just step away from their computers and rely on carrier pigeons for communication. I mean, it's more fun to see the birds fly away with your message than just sending an email with one click -- who cares about efficiency!
Amazing how these people will allow electronics to rule in ALL other aspects of their lives, but ohh noes... keep that bad DSG away from me 'cause I like to show what a man I am by vigorously groping a knob.

[pensive.d]

All the anti-DSG folk better just step away from their computers and rely on carrier pigeons for communication. I mean, it's more fun to see the birds fly away with your message than just sending an email with one click -- who cares about efficiency!
Amazing how these people will allow electronics to rule in ALL other aspects of their lives, but ohh noes... keep that bad DSG away from me 'cause I like to show what a man I am by vigorously groping a knob.

LOL. But I LIKE groping my knob!

[Ian_VR6]

I am prone to text while driving so I guess I will be safer with the DSG.

[cnimativ]

All the anti-DSG folk better just step away from their computers and rely on carrier pigeons for communication. I mean, it's more fun to see the birds fly away with your message than just sending an email with one click -- who cares about efficiency!
Amazing how these people will allow electronics to rule in ALL other aspects of their lives, but ohh noes... keep that bad DSG away from me 'cause I like to show what a man I am by vigorously groping a knob.

DSG might be faster, but it is not more efficient and it definitely has less control of the car compare to MT.

[S4mig]

I am prone to text while driving so I guess I will be safer with the DSG.

Not so, as DSG will encourage you to text more since you'll constantly have a free hand and can be less attentive to what the car is doing. With a manual you'll have to actually drive the car instead. Best get a manual for your own safety.

[Therhcp]

Manual for sure, I love the stick shift. I fall asleep driving automatics

[TurboPaul@MillenniumVW]

Don't roll your eyes at me mister. Faster and better isn't even the point. The point is this: DSG JUST ISN'T AS MUCH FUN.

If I'm going to spend $35K or whatever on a performance car, I damn sure want to enjoy driving it.

No doubt there will someday be an android programmed with the ability to satisfy a woman better than humanly possible. Would I want to delegate all of my lovemaking to that android? I think not.

Damn straight, what a classic this is!

All the anti-DSG folk better just step away from their computers and rely on carrier pigeons for communication. I mean, it's more fun to see the birds fly away with your message than just sending an email with one click -- who cares about efficiency!
Amazing how these people will allow electronics to rule in ALL other aspects of their lives, but ohh noes... keep that bad DSG away from me 'cause I like to show what a man I am by vigorously groping a knob.

Not the point. I am planning on getting a Golf R for enjoyment. I enjoy driving a car, and a manual trans increases that enjoyment and involvement. If I wanted high tech efficiency in my car I'd buy a Chevy Volt. You may think it's super duper that the DSG is faster or efficient, or what ever, but I just love the involvement of the three pedals and the shifter. I find it therapeutic to go for a drive and unwind. I am not looking to get a Golf R for efficiency. That is just not the point of a car like the Golf R, at least in my opinion. A DSG may fit your needs better, and that's fine by me, but don't try to poke fun at the reason I would buy the car, and what I would want in that car that I buy.

As pensive.d says, some things are still better when done for yourself........

[vagmobile]

Not the point. I am planning on getting a Golf R for enjoyment. I enjoy driving a car, and a manual trans increases that enjoyment and involvement. If I wanted high tech efficiency in my car I'd buy a Chevy Volt. You may think it's super duper that the DSG is faster or efficient, or what ever, but I just love the involvement of the three pedals and the shifter. I find it therapeutic to go for a drive and unwind. I am not looking to get a Golf R for efficiency. That is just not the point of a car like the Golf R, at least in my opinion. A DSG may fit your needs better, and that's fine by me, but don't try to poke fun at the reason I would buy the car, and what I would want in that car that I buy.

What you are saying makes sense, but ONLY if you live in (a) podunk Iowa with no traffic jams or (b) you would use the R exclusively as a track car. Since you live in jerz, point (a) doesn't apply. I've owned manuals and I've owned automatics. Manuals are fun as long as you're not driving around in city traffic, as they then become a chore -- how is that increasing enjoyment? I'll acknowledge that a manual is fun, as long as you acknowledge that a manual in a daily driver in commuting traffic is the suck in relation to DSG.

[TurboPaul@MillenniumVW]

What you are saying makes sense, but ONLY if you live in (a) podunk Iowa with no traffic jams or (b) you would use the R exclusively as a track car. Since you live in jerz, point (a) doesn't apply. I've owned manuals and I've owned automatics. Manuals are fun as long as you're not driving around in city traffic, as they then become a chore -- how is that increasing enjoyment? I'll acknowledge that a manual is fun, as long as you acknowledge that a manual in a daily driver in commuting traffic is the suck in relation to DSG.

I can't do that. Not only do I drive in traffic everyday, I also go into Manhattan a couple times a month. And I WAY prefer to be driving a manual. I think traffic sucks less when I at least get the enjoyment of rowing up and down through the gears.

I have a company demo that is a DSG, and my personal car is a manual. Whenever they allow, I take a manual demo, but sadly they don't often allow it. And I often take my personal car instead of my company car just to drive the manual, traffic or not. And I am old too, so it's not like I want a manual because I am a kid.

I just never buy autos unless I have need of a car that doesn't offer one. I always choose a manual. And I definitely will not buy the Golf R if I can't get a manual, it just defeats the purpose of buying this car to me, no matter how much I want one. We all have our needs in a car.

[pensive.d]

I can't do that. Not only do I drive in traffic everyday, I also go into Manhattan a couple times a month. And I WAY prefer to be driving a manual. I think traffic sucks less when I at least get the enjoyment of rowing up and down through the gears.

I have a company demo that is a DSG, and my personal car is a manual. Whenever they allow, I take a manual demo, but sadly they don't often allow it. And I often take my personal car instead of my company car just to drive the manual, traffic or not. And I am old too, so it's not like I want a manual because I am a kid.

I just never buy autos unless I have need of a car that doesn't offer one. I always choose a manual. And I definitely will not buy the Golf R if I can't get a manual, it just defeats the purpose of buying this car to me, no matter how much I want one. We all have our needs in a car.

I'm with you. I'm 50 now, and up until last year every vehicle I ever owned had a manual transmission. Last year I bought a GTI with DSG, mostly because I was curious. I knew DSG was faster/better/more efficient, etc., but I also knew it would not be as involving and I was concerned that it would therefore not be as much fun. Now, after a year and a half, I can say that the ONLY time I really like having DSG is in stop-and-go traffic on the freeway. All the rest of the time I wish I had a full manual.

I've spent 35 years working on my gear-shifting technique, and I've gotten pretty good at it. Doing anything really well can be very satisfying, but some of that satisfaction is missing when I drive my GTI. I want it back, so I won’t be keeping the GTI much longer.

Like you, if I can’t get a Golf R with a fully manual transmission, I won’t buy one at all. I’ll probably have to get some sort of BMW or a WRX instead, which is sad, because I really like VWs.

All these people with their smug “you’re an idiot because you don’t agree with my point of view” attitudes just make me sad. There’s room for more than one preference. The Golf R is offered with a choice of transmissions in Europe. I just hope we are given the same choice if VWoA ever gets off its collective ass and offers the R for sale here.

[vagmobile]

I'm with you. I'm 50 now,

All these people with their smug “you’re an idiot because you don’t agree with my point of view” attitudes just make me sad. There’s room for more than one preference. The Golf R is offered with a choice of transmissions in Europe. I just hope we are given the same choice if VWoA ever gets off its collective ass and offers the R for sale here.

You shouldn't be driving an R at that age. Too much driving excitement results in hypertension results in cardiac infarction for men in your age group. Is this what you mean by smug?

I still stand by my position that knob gropers (I used to be one!) need to turn off their Internet access right now -- Ted Kazynski would have been proud to call you anti-technology traditionalists his friend. Anyway, I'll have fun blasting off the line in my DSG R while you miss second gear completely in your quest for excitement!

[pensive.d]

You shouldn't be driving an R at that age. Too much driving excitement results in hypertension results in cardiac infarction for men in your age group. Is this what you mean by smug?

I still stand by my position that knob gropers (I used to be one!) need to turn off their Internet access right now -- Ted Kazynski would have been proud to call you anti-technology traditionalists his friend. Anyway, I'll have fun blasting off the line in my DSG R while you miss second gear completely in your quest for excitement!

Yep, that's fine with me, considering we won't ever be drag racing our Rs. However, I wouldn't be surprised if I could get a better lap time around a road course in my manual R than you could in your DSG R. And I'm pretty sure my lap would be infarction-free, although I might occasionally yell "whee" or some such.

Now, get off my lawn you kids!

[rickerbr]

Yep, that's fine with me, considering we won't ever be drag racing our Rs. However, I wouldn't be surprised if I could get a better lap time around a road course in my manual R than you could in your DSG R. And I'm pretty sure my lap would be infarction-free, although I might occasionally yell "whee" or some such.

Can you heel-toe 100% of the time with no errors? I guarantee you I can beat you on the track with a DSG car vs a manual, simply because the shifts are 100% accurate every time (and I can heel-toe) not to mention much faster with no power loss (very important with a turbo car). I've tracked my DSG GTI for years now and it is faster than the equivalent manual. DSG is simply the best way to fly for tracking the car, but that is only 2% or less of the equation I admit.

Now for all of the manual is more fun blah blah. A mechanic who worked for my dad years ago (more than I want to admit) when I turned 16 said "You'll get over than manual only thing once you get into girls and have something better to do with that free hand....". But to each his own.

[pensive.d]

Can you heel-toe 100% of the time with no errors? I guarantee you I can beat you on the track with a DSG car vs a manual, simply because the shifts are 100% accurate every time (and I can heel-toe) not to mention much faster with no power loss (very important with a turbo car). I've tracked my DSG GTI for years now and it is faster than the equivalent manual. DSG is simply the best way to fly for tracking the car, but that is only 2% or less of the equation I admit.

Now for all of the manual is more fun blah blah. A mechanic who worked for my dad years ago (more than I want to admit) when I turned 16 said "You'll get over than manual only thing once you get into girls and have something better to do with that free hand....". But to each his own.

Again with the manhood questioning. Yeah, I know that a DSG car would be faster around a track than an otherwise identical manual car. I only said that I might be faster around a track in my manual car than Vagmobile in his DSG car. And I'd definitely be having more fun than I would if I were driving with DSG, which is really the only thing that matters to me in this whole silly debate.

[vagmobile]

I agree; it is a silly debate. The better debate would be 2dr vs. 4dr. The two door proponents just aren't getting it. Two doors are for rear drive, rear engine sports cars and the usefulness of 4 doors over 2 is significant. What a 4 dr R would be is a souped up, elegant, grocery-getter that can hang with the Porsche crowd at track day. The moment you take it down to 2 doors you are deluding yourself into thinking you have a sports car and, more importantly, the grocery-getter concept goes by the wayside. Wouldn't you just love to see the look of the Porsche weekend warrior douche driver as he gets passed by a grocery-getter (well, Stage III grocery-getter ).