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    Thread: i'm over it already.

    1. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:10 AM #1
      open letter to real estate agents and mortgage brokers.

      i've had enough with house shopping, and we've been at it exactly one day. 3 houses and 3 agents that won't shut up or stop calling. i'm only being sorta friendly to you because i maaaay have an interest in the house and i simply don't like to be rude. other than that i don't like you and don't want to be buddy buddy with you. oh, and that thing you do, when we show no interest in the house and you say something like 'o i can get it for you for less, it's overpriced'... wtf?! already selling your clients down the river at the first hint of a lost sale? maybe you think we would believe you know of other overpriced houses at the hopes of working with us as a buying agent on other houses? no ****ing WAY would i work with you. ever. and don't worry about what we're pre-approved for, that's for us to know. we don't like to waste our time driving around looking at open houses. if we're here it's in our range.

      and of course you all work with the best mortgage brokers, so you'll go ahead and pass our information along to them. you *******s are even worse. to be honest im pretty shocked the profession still even exists. you provide an unnecessary service and don't do anything a good web application shouldn't be able to do. get over yourselves. all that's really needed is someone to verify that what we say is factual. that's summer intern work.

      so that's it. im ****ing over it already.

      /rant

      so ya... what do you all do? suck it up? avoid agents unless absolutely necessary?

      i won't be able to check this thread much so have at it.
      Last edited by jnm2.0t; 07-29-2010 at 12:26 AM.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    2. Member The A1 and A2 German's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:47 AM #2
      [QUOTE]and don't worry about what we're pre-approved for, that's for us to know[QUOTE]

      People are dreamers, hear what they want to hear and tell you what they want you to hear, if I where an agent in this market I sure as hell would want to know what your pre-approved for.....you know how many times they've been ran through the ringer. It's one thing to waste someones time who makes salary, but some one who's commission is just wrong (THEY CAN'T READ YOUR MIND AND TELL YOU HAVE 20% DOWN WITH A 800 CREDIT SCORE). You also can't blame them, you could be the deal that saves their own house.....at least for a couple months and they too are on the edge.

      If also pisses me off for people who take cars for test drives who have no intention of buying, do you freakin understand they ONLY get paid if they sell a car, there is no hourly, there is no weekly, there is nothing at all unless they sell. Phuck, let me come to your house and test drive your black sports bike, ask 30 questions, then when you ask if we have a deal I respond, "I don't even like black, I'd never buy black, and only did it for fun and wanted to post in The Car Lounge I drove one today."

      People are pathetic.

      And for the Craigslist People:

      My add clearly states: NO TRADES!
      I do not want to trade for your 1956 Sears Washer and Dryer (but works great) or your paintball gun. The price of my item is stated $450, not $50! NO! I WILL NOT TAKE $50! IT'S $450!
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    3. Member RIPkevsGTI's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 07:13 AM #3
      Yeah, it's a really crappy industry with a lot of shady people. However someone who knows the game can be a lot of help. Ask around friends/family/coworkers for an agent who is good. Get a professional on your side who knows how things work and can be trusted, and try again. I have to think your area might be worse than average (lots of pressure, hugely inflated market), but there's got to be some good eggs out there.

      Good luck.
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    4. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 08:09 AM #4
      The only way to deal with it is to get somebody well-connected in the region to recommend you a buyers agent. Most realtors are lazy and as dishonest as they can be without risking getting sued. If you find a good one and have a good idea what you're looking for, they add some value.

    5. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 08:28 AM #5
      Why are you dealing with three agents? That seems to be your first mistake. Find one good agent and have him show you houses. Buying through the seller's agent doesn't make much sense, because it creates a huge conflict of interest for the agent as he/she has to look out for the best interest of both sides. This means he/she isn't much help when it comes to negotiating.

      And yes, the agent should definitely know how much you are pre-approved for. For all he knows, you could be wasting his time looking at houses that are way outside of what you can afford.

    6. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 10:26 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by The A1 and A2 German View Post
      People are dreamers, hear what they want to hear and tell you what they want you to hear, if I where an agent in this market I sure as hell would want to know what your pre-approved for.....you know how many times they've been ran through the ringer. It's one thing to waste someones time who makes salary, but some one who's commission is just wrong (THEY CAN'T READ YOUR MIND AND TELL YOU HAVE 20% DOWN WITH A 800 CREDIT SCORE). You also can't blame them, you could be the deal that saves their own house.....at least for a couple months and they too are on the edge.
      o boo hoo. spare me the 'wont someone PLEASE think about the realtors?!' if you dont like that pay cycle, then they shouldn't be a realtor, or shouldn't be driving the new benz/bmw they all have. its their choice. you wont convince me that there is any reason the selling agent standing in the living room of an open house needs to know our pre approval status. they spend no more or less time at the open house because of it.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    7. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 10:37 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      Why are you dealing with three agents? That seems to be your first mistake. Find one good agent and have him show you houses. Buying through the seller's agent doesn't make much sense, because it creates a huge conflict of interest for the agent as he/she has to look out for the best interest of both sides. This means he/she isn't much help when it comes to negotiating.

      And yes, the agent should definitely know how much you are pre-approved for. For all he knows, you could be wasting his time looking at houses that are way outside of what you can afford.
      so for us in terms of a buying agent, our area is very specific and targeted. there aren't an overwhelming number of houses in the area we want. it'd be one thing if there were 200 houses and didn't want to or couldn't sort them all out. if we decided to make an offer on one... ehhh maybe but i wouldnt be willing to spend their fees in order to help the negotiations and closing process. i have enough attorneys (and real estate ones too) in the family circle to look over contracts.

      as for the selling agents at the open houses. this is another reason im averse to any agent involvement. to me 'agent' means just that, you're supposed to be working for your clients best interest. i looked a little while ago and went to a bunch of open houses then too. between all the selling agents i have spoken with i cannot remember one that was at all interested in selling the house. they were, however, all interested in selling themselves as being our buying agent. i dont think its expecting too much to treat the time you are supposed to dedicate to your clients as theirs... not your own rolodex building time. even one house we were very interested in, the agents email followup was more about how she can help us look at other ones too. i have a very thin sliver of trust with any of them at this point, including believing they could or would get us a better price that makes up for what they charge. too many vultures out there to trust anyone. in the future i'll just ignore the selling agents to the extent possible.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    8. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 11:42 AM #8
      Desperate times, buddy. I figured the economy would have flushed out most of the crap, like the tech bubble burst did to the financial industry (50% attrition over two years) and the guys left either have time in and don't want to change or are really decent at what they do.

      So, are you still looking for a mortgage broker? Or are you using a web application?

    9. Senior Member SAPJetta's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 11:54 AM #9
      Buy a house out here in Nevada near me and I'll give you a referral. It puts $5k in both our pockets.

      And I'm not even an agent..... They are just hurting trying to move new homes.
      Last edited by SAPJetta; 07-29-2010 at 12:57 PM. Reason: 'Cause I can't speel wurth shizit
      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

    10. Global Moderator iThread's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:03 PM #10
      This is why I'm glad I bought my house from the landlord and didn't have to deal with agents at all.

    11. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:11 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by SAPJetta View Post
      BUy a house out here in Nevada near me and I'll give you a referral. It puts $5k in both our pockets.
      Sleepless nights getting to you?

    12. Member maskedSONY's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:12 PM #12
      jnm - Getting involved with real estate is the biggest pain in the ass move ever. I can't imagine the type of tools that you getting involved with over there.

      Quote Originally Posted by iThread View Post
      This is why I'm glad I bought my house from the landlord and didn't have
      to deal with agents at all.
      You mean you bought your house from the previous owner correct? Or have you directly leased it from him? These type of deals aren't that bad provided you know how to fill out the paperwork. (That's where I get lost.)
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel!
      It really is the perfect, no excuses all-rounder for the rich guy who's accustomed to having it all - the Hybrid version especially. It's like an F-150 Raptor banged an M5 in the men's room of a biker bar. Nobody really wanted the results, but damn - what a set of genes.

    13. Global Moderator iThread's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:16 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by maskedSONY View Post
      You mean you bought your house from the previous owner correct? Or have you directly leased it from him? These type of deals aren't that bad provided you know how to fill out the paperwork. (That's where I get lost.)
      Yes, I was leasing the house from the owner and then offered to buy it from him after a couple of years. We agreed on a price and did the deal ourselves with a firm handshake. It went very smoothly and we were both happy with the outcome.

    14. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:38 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      so for us in terms of a buying agent, our area is very specific and targeted. there aren't an overwhelming number of houses in the area we want. it'd be one thing if there were 200 houses and didn't want to or couldn't sort them all out. if we decided to make an offer on one... ehhh maybe but i wouldnt be willing to spend their fees in order to help the negotiations and closing process. i have enough attorneys (and real estate ones too) in the family circle to look over contracts.
      Is your area completely backwards? I thought that in most places, the buyer's agent simply gets a cut of the seller's agent commission. So if the agent agreement specifies a commission of 5%, it is split between the two agents brokering the deal. That means that as a buyer, you don't pay your agent - the seller of the home does.

      as for the selling agents at the open houses. this is another reason im averse to any agent involvement. to me 'agent' means just that, you're supposed to be working for your clients best interest. i looked a little while ago and went to a bunch of open houses then too. between all the selling agents i have spoken with i cannot remember one that was at all interested in selling the house. they were, however, all interested in selling themselves as being our buying agent. i dont think its expecting too much to treat the time you are supposed to dedicate to your clients as theirs... not your own rolodex building time. even one house we were very interested in, the agents email followup was more about how she can help us look at other ones too. i have a very thin sliver of trust with any of them at this point, including believing they could or would get us a better price that makes up for what they charge. too many vultures out there to trust anyone. in the future i'll just ignore the selling agents to the extent possible.
      Open houses are definitely more for the realtor's benefit than for the seller of the home. Most people will tell you that open houses don't "work". My own experience differs, as I bought my house because we fell in love with it at the open house. My parents also just bought a house that they first viewed as an open house, albeit a year before buying. But really, the open houses promotes the agent AND the house so it is a win-win situation.

      There must be SOME good agents in your area. I was lucky, I had a great agent with whom I had a prior business relationship. He treated me well, and in turn my parents used him to sell their old house and buy their new one.

    15. Senior Member Hostile's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:49 PM #15
      If you're talking to the seller's agents you're doing it wrong.

      Get a reputable buying agent and they do (most of) the leg work AND deal with the seller's agents so you don't have to.

    16. Senior Member SAPJetta's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 12:57 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      Sleepless nights getting to you?
      Goodness
      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

    17. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 01:38 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      Is your area completely backwards? I thought that in most places, the buyer's agent simply gets a cut of the seller's agent commission. So if the agent agreement specifies a commission of 5%, it is split between the two agents brokering the deal. That means that as a buyer, you don't pay your agent - the seller does
      I've never bought the seller pays line. The seller would agree to accept a lower sales price if there was no agents involved. That means a lower buying price. Higher price means you end up paying more.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    18. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 02:20 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      I've never bought the seller pays line. The seller would agree to accept a lower sales price if there was no agents involved. That means a lower buying price. Higher price means you end up paying more.
      Huh? If you are looking at houses that have been listed by an agent already (as implied by your OP), your line of thinking doesn't compute. Either way, someone is getting X% commission. That means the seller gets asking price minus X%. It doesn't matter if there is one agent or two. Ergo, you don't pay for the services of the buyer's agent that is working for you.

      Now obviously, if you're looking at private sales then you are correct.

    19. Senior Member ChrisMD's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 02:20 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      and of course you all work with the best mortgage brokers, so you'll go ahead and pass our information along to them. you *******s are even worse. to be honest im pretty shocked the profession still even exists. you provide an unnecessary service and don't do anything a good web application shouldn't be able to do.
      Yep. I have said in this forum for years now that I do not like mortgage brokers. I was saying that even when everyone was raving about how great mortgage brokers were at making dreams come true. Bull****.

      As for the web application, that is true; however, GOOD web applications are hard to find. If you think LendingTree is the answer.. HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I have direct, professional experience with LendingTree and most of their competitors from the POV of a mortgage lender (you know, the people who actually loan the money) and every single one of those companies that I dealt with is a disaster. That doesn't mean I think mortgage brokers are useful... far from it... but the multi-lender comparison web applications aren't there yet either. It's still up to the borrower to do their own homework and apply with different lenders.

      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      And yes, the agent should definitely know how much you are pre-approved for. For all he knows, you could be wasting his time looking at houses that are way outside of what you can afford.
      Your buyer's agent should definitely know your range because they have to know what houses to show you but a seller's agent does not need to know.

      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      I've never bought the seller pays line. The seller would agree to accept a lower sales price if there was no agents involved. That means a lower buying price. Higher price means you end up paying more.
      Sure, if there are NO agents involved. That means both the buyer and seller are unrepresented. But how often does that happen? Most homeowners have absolutely no interest in trying to sell their own home because they just don't have the time, patience, knowledge, or market access to do it. The only somewhat-common situation in which this would happen is, like mentioned above, when a renter wants to buy the house directly from the landlord but that is only realistic because the buyer is already identified. Marketing a house is quite a different beast than selling to the person who already lives there.

      The vast majority of homes for sale are listed with an agent and the standard commission is 6%. If the buyer has an agent, the agents split it. If the buyer doesn't have an agent, the seller's agent keeps the whole thing. Either way, the seller pockets the same amount and the buyer isn't going to have any negotiation leverage based on their lack of representation. Asking the seller's agent to give up some of the commission based on not needing to split it is like asking the sun not to rise in the morning.

    20. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 02:29 PM #20
      Our agent sucked, she existed primarily as a walking keyring to let us into the houses.

      It worked like this:
      All week, wife and I scour the internet sites looking for houses we like.
      Couple times a week, we'd hop in a car, and drive around looking at the houses we found (and neighborhood, etc.)
      If it passed muster, we emailed agent, and we went and looked at the house over the weekend.

      Did that for about 6 months. Finally found our house that we loved, bought it, and the idiot realtor has taken a second job (this was in May '08 when the market was in the process of cratering) and couldn't make our closing.

      Fortunately, my BIL is a lawyer and did our closing, so it didn't matter, but it pissed me off that she made any money at all on the deal. What can you do, you need the turds for access to the MLS and to get into the houses.

    21. 07-29-2010 04:10 PM #21
      John, my advice to you is do what I did, spend the thousand or so dollars to get your own R/E license. All teh pre-work stuff is open book and than you have a fairly easy state exam.

      Being a finance guy it should be fairly simple for you. If you figure the average home costs $500k (well one that you would want to live in) the 2-3% commission back is well worth the entry fee. Plus you have access to all the listings and can avoid dealing with other realtors for the most part.

      I've always said everyone should get the R/E license to avoid the nonsense.

    22. 07-29-2010 04:54 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by ImRollin View Post
      John, my advice to you is do what I did, spend the thousand or so dollars to get your own R/E license. All teh pre-work stuff is open book and than you have a fairly easy state exam.

      Being a finance guy it should be fairly simple for you. If you figure the average home costs $500k (well one that you would want to live in) the 2-3% commission back is well worth the entry fee. Plus you have access to all the listings and can avoid dealing with other realtors for the most part.

      I've always said everyone should get the R/E license to avoid the nonsense.
      That's crazy enough it just might work!
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    23. Senior Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      07-29-2010 07:53 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by ImRollin View Post
      John, my advice to you is do what I did, spend the thousand or so dollars to get your own R/E license. All teh pre-work stuff is open book and than you have a fairly easy state exam.

      Being a finance guy it should be fairly simple for you. If you figure the average home costs $500k (well one that you would want to live in) the 2-3% commission back is well worth the entry fee. Plus you have access to all the listings and can avoid dealing with other realtors for the most part.

      I've always said everyone should get the R/E license to avoid the nonsense.
      damn, really not a bad idea. i bet i could even just study on my own for a few hours and pass it.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    24. 07-29-2010 08:25 PM #24
      If you want I can send you the info for the study at home classes. With a finance degree you get to bypass several classes.

      I believe the website is dre.ca.gov for a list of requirements. Only tricky thing about the exam is some verbiage. Thats just a matter of memorization.

    25. 07-30-2010 10:28 AM #25
      If you're in one of their service areas, check out Redfin. It's basically a do-it-yourself buyers agent -- you pick out the houses you want to see, you set up an appointment with them on their web page to see the houses, they unlock the doors and stand around. If you want to buy the house, you go through their web page to start the offer process. It's very hands off, and they give you back 50% of their commission.

      They also have one of the best web pages for searching for houses, as well as a really good iPhone app for searching. You don't actually need to be working with them to use their tools, either.

      We tried it for awhile, and their process works OK but wasn't for us. We're pretty new to this area, and we just ended up needing a little more hands-on then Redfin was going to provide. However, I think if you already know which specific areas you're looking for and know the market pretty well then it really is the way to go.

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