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    Thread: i'm over it already.

    1. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      07-30-2010 12:09 PM #26
      I'm not a real estate agent, but I have to wear a biz dev hat occasionally. From the sellers end, it's the same in any industry -- i'll call it "stop being a c0ck tease buyer".

      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t
      i'm only being sorta friendly to you because i maaaay have an interest in the house and i simply don't like to be rude. other than that i don't like you and don't want to be buddy buddy with you
      It's phenomenally frustrating when someone is nice and friendly to you, but is really feigning interest because they don't want to be rude. I've had this happen so many times. It's even more frustrating that they feign so much interest that you push them higher on your biz dev list b/c they've given you all the signals. You showed up at an open house, or you called them and said "i'm interested in this house". Then they call you and you're nice and friendly and then you don't want them to follow-up with you again?!?!

      Just "be rude" and say "listen, we're only interested that one house. We have a lot of thinking to do. We'll follow-up with you when we're ready, but please don't call me before you hear from me".

      Basically, you're being the girl at the bar who keeps letting the guy buy her drinks, but then doesn't even give out her a phone number. Or worse, lets you come back to her room but "only wants to cuddle". She didn't want to be rude, but you would have much preferred she told you to eff off at 9pm so you could have moved on - or at least said, "I enjoy talking to you and appreciate the beer, but if you're expecting me to go home with you tonight -- well, there's 0 chance of that happening".

      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      and don't worry about what we're pre-approved for, that's for us to know. we don't like to waste our time driving around looking at open houses. if we're here it's in our range.
      It's always fun to have someone tell you they know how much things cost and they don't want to waste anyone's time, only to send over a small proposal and find out it's 10x over the amount that they were thinking was a "stretch". If they could have given a ballpark guesstimate of a hard figure, everyone could have saved time.

      Why not just say something like, "We're not interested in sharing the exact figure, but we're pre-approved for at least the cost of this house. The financials are not an issue if decide to move forward, b/c this is well within our pre-approval range".

      The "way overpriced" selling down the river thing is unacceptable though. It's one thing to say "Is price an issue? Would you like me to follow-up with you if it turns out they'd be interested in lowering the price" is a nice way to say the exact same thing and remain professional.

      But what I don't get is (maybe I missed it in the thread), why don't you just higher a seller's agent? They do all that leg work for you, it doesn't cost you anymore (they split the commission; if not there, the buyer's agent gets it all, right?), and you don't have to put up with all the seedy people you don't want to deal with.
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 07-30-2010 at 12:12 PM.

    2. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      07-30-2010 12:34 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by ImRollin View Post
      John, my advice to you is do what I did, spend the thousand or so dollars to get your own R/E license. All teh pre-work stuff is open book and than you have a fairly easy state exam.

      Being a finance guy it should be fairly simple for you. If you figure the average home costs $500k (well one that you would want to live in) the 2-3% commission back is well worth the entry fee. Plus you have access to all the listings and can avoid dealing with other realtors for the most part.

      I've always said everyone should get the R/E license to avoid the nonsense.
      This is great advice. My father-in-law did this when we were house shopping. He was nearing retirement and got irritated at the idea that someone would be taking commission on us. So he got his license. Saved us $ and made the house finding situation much easier. He did the same thing for my brother-in-law as well as my little brother.

      It was really cool.

    3. 08-08-2010 08:33 PM #28
      Within my current position as an insurance agent, I work with mortgage brokers and realtors on a fairly frequent basis. Like any profession, there are both good and bad individuals. Unfortunately, due to the fairly low barriers to entry, there tend to be more bad than good and turn-over is rampant. Some realtors provide excellent service, and others are merely looking for a transactional sale. It sounds as though you've been working with the latter of the two types, which is unfortunate.

      To address your comment about automating these types of transactions through technology, that's certainly a possibility. In fact, the insurance industry is increasingly moving in that direction -- to reduce variable costs. Nonetheless, there are a LOT of downsides to this [and I'm not just saying that to justify my existence as a living/breathing salesperson]. Insurance can be a somewhat complex product, and although most insurance companies offer similar coverages there are distinct differences. Without having a live person to explain these differences, many people would be lost and end up with inappropriate coverages. Case in point: Progressive offers a discount to individuals who purchase their policy online. By purchasing online, the customer saves Progressive the cost of paying a new-business commission on the policy. Win-win, right? The customer saves money, and so does Progressive. On the flip side, many independent insurance brokers sell Progressive policies through their agencies. They do NOT like the fact that a person will frequently call them, get a quote, ask questions, and then purchase the exact policy online -- effectively cutting the broker out of the equation. Then, when the customer has a problem, or a question, they are shocked to find out that the independent broker cannot help them out due to rules of engagement. Thus, the person saved a few bucks by purchasing online, and now they have no local support and they have to sit on the phone waiting for a call-center employee in a different state to take their call [and probably provide sub-par service]. All of these issues are further compounded when you consider that mortgages and the home buying process are far more complex than car or home insurance. For this reason, the average person -- who doesn't have the time/desire to become an expert on the subject -- is far better off finding a reputable broker/realtor to help them walk through the process.

      That being said, as a salesperson myself, there are certain types of people I really cannot stand working with. Although the most obvious type would be the flat-out rude individuals, I dislike the 'passive-aggressive patronizers' even more. While I certainly don't want to call out the OP, and suggest that he's a jerk in real life, it sounds as though he's done very little to set expectations for the agents who are hounding him.

      Let me paint a picture here -- I once worked with a gentleman who was moving to my area and had a fairly complex need for insurance (ie, vintage bikes, rare personal-property, rental homes, etc...). He put together a document with all the major pieces of information, sent it to 5 different insurance agents (myself included), and told us to call him if we needed personal information. He let everyone know that he would evaluate the quotes, the features each company would provide, make a decision, and let everyone know what his decision was. In the end, I wasn't selected -- so I sent him a brief email thanking him for the opportunity. I will not contact him in the future unless he requests it, and I would wager that the other competing insurance agents [who weren't selected] won't either. Why? he set clear expectations, and followed through on what he said he would do. I can respect that.

      Now, let me paint the opposite picture. I was at lunch with an old acquaintance who had recently been researching options for for grad school. While we were eating her phone started ringing, and after checking the caller ID, she sighed in frustration and explained that this representative from one of the schools she had been inquiring about would not stop calling/emailing her. After listening to her rant for a solid 45 seconds, I looked at her and asked her why she hadn't simply explained to him that she was merely looking for information and did not want to communicate further. For some strange reason, this idea had not even crossed her mind.

      The moral of the story here is that the best way to deal with salespeople is to set clear expectations, follow through on them, and be assertively polite. When someone acts that way towards me, I demonstrate mutual respect by not trying to badger them into a sale they're not committed to. However, as long as someone indicates any interest in the product I'm selling, I'll continue to contact them. A polite NO is far better than a MAYBE.

      If you do not want to work with a certain mortgage-broker or realtor, tell them so. You don't have to yell or call them names; simply tell them that you've selected a different realtor and you thank them for their efforts. If they continue to bother you after that, then a more stern rebuke is in order.

    4. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 10:22 AM #29
      turns out the wifes very close friend, her fiancee has his real estate license. she didn't see why he wouldn't help us out. need to talk to him and see if he is willing to do it for a small piece of it... that or i'll start the process for my own license next weekend.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    5. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 10:22 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      This is great advice. My father-in-law did this when we were house shopping. He was nearing retirement and got irritated at the idea that someone would be taking commission on us. So he got his license. Saved us $ and made the house finding situation much easier. He did the same thing for my brother-in-law as well as my little brother.

      It was really cool.
      turns out the wifes very close friend, her fiancee has his real estate license. she didn't see why he wouldn't help us out. need to talk to him and see if he is willing to do it for a small piece of it... that or i'll start the process for my own license next weekend.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    6. 08-09-2010 10:39 AM #31
      Get him a case of beer and see how far that takes it first.

    7. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 11:36 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      turns out the wifes very close friend, her fiancee has his real estate license. she didn't see why he wouldn't help us out. need to talk to him and see if he is willing to do it for a small piece of it... that or i'll start the process for my own license next weekend.
      Gotta be careful in situations like this. It's always frustrating when everyone wants a friends and family discount when you could be making more money on non-friends. My friends who are lawyers, contractors, and computer techs are always getting the "hey, could you just help me out with this...."

    8. Senior Member ChrisMD's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 01:55 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Gotta be careful in situations like this. It's always frustrating when everyone wants a friends and family discount when you could be making more money on non-friends. My friends who are lawyers, contractors, and computer techs are always getting the "hey, could you just help me out with this...."
      I agree. It's one thing to ask a Realtor friend for recommendations of communities to consider or to ask a contractor friend for a general opinion and ballpark cost figure for a remodel you're thinking of doing. It's quite another to ask a friend to be your Realtor or your contractor and expect them to work for beer. Also there's the issue that friends are not neutral parties. Sometimes it's nice to know a friend has your back but sometimes you need a non-friend to be able to smack the stupid out of you.

    9. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 04:12 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by ChrisMD View Post
      I agree. It's one thing to ask a Realtor friend for recommendations of communities to consider or to ask a contractor friend for a general opinion and ballpark cost figure for a remodel you're thinking of doing. It's quite another to ask a friend to be your Realtor or your contractor and expect them to work for beer. Also there's the issue that friends are not neutral parties. Sometimes it's nice to know a friend has your back but sometimes you need a non-friend to be able to smack the stupid out of you.
      Exactly.

      Anytime I have friends do work for me, I expect to pay full price but have the assurance that the job will be done quickly, fairly, and of the highest quality. It's really about paying full price for extra piece of mind for me.

    10. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 06:25 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by ChrisMD View Post
      Also there's the issue that friends are not neutral parties. Sometimes it's nice to know a friend has your back but sometimes you need a non-friend to be able to smack the stupid out of you.
      Meh, in this case- I agree with jnm. I say hire the extended family. At least get a piece of the pie for someone you know. Let him do any paperwork for you, and help with the search. If you find something you like, chances are he can get you in for a look quickly. Win-Win.

      I got a good friend of mine in on the split for our current home due to a ****-bag of a sales agent who didn't even need to be involved. It is nice to help friends and family out. Hell, at the very least he can field all of the phone calls and nonsense.

    11. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 07:04 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      Meh, in this case- I agree with jnm. I say hire the extended family. At least get a piece of the pie for someone you know. Let him do any paperwork for you, and help with the search. If you find something you like, chances are he can get you in for a look quickly. Win-Win.
      The problem is, he said "need to talk to him and see if he is willing to do it for a small piece of it".

      It's when you start assuming friends owe you big discounts that things start to get dicey.

    12. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 11:42 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Gotta be careful in situations like this. It's always frustrating when everyone wants a friends and family discount when you could be making more money on non-friends. My friends who are lawyers, contractors, and computer techs are always getting the "hey, could you just help me out with this...."
      i appreciate the concern but he's not a realtor. he's just finished his 2nd or 3rd tour in iraq and graduated from grad school and looking for work. same with his fiancee (minus military). they'd readily welcome the money. it'd probably work out to 1.5-2 months of rent for them, which would be a real help.

      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      Meh, in this case- I agree with jnm. I say hire the extended family. At least get a piece of the pie for someone you know. Let him do any paperwork for you, and help with the search. If you find something you like, chances are he can get you in for a look quickly. Win-Win.

      I got a good friend of mine in on the split for our current home due to a ****-bag of a sales agent who didn't even need to be involved. It is nice to help friends and family out. Hell, at the very least he can field all of the phone calls and nonsense.
      thats the other side of it... the money would be a big help to them. that and we probably wouldnt even ask him to do any work or advising, just use his license.
      Last edited by jnm2.0t; 08-09-2010 at 11:45 PM.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    13. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 11:49 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Gotta be careful in situations like this. It's always frustrating when everyone wants a friends and family discount when you could be making more money on non-friends. My friends who are lawyers, contractors, and computer techs are always getting the "hey, could you just help me out with this...."
      i appreciate the concern but he's not a realtor. he's just finished his 2nd or 3rd tour in iraq and graduated from grad school and looking for work. same with his fiancee (minus military). they'd readily welcome the money. it'd probably work out to 1.5-2 months of rent for them, which would be a real help.

      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      Meh, in this case- I agree with jnm. I say hire the extended family. At least get a piece of the pie for someone you know. Let him do any paperwork for you, and help with the search. If you find something you like, chances are he can get you in for a look quickly. Win-Win.

      I got a good friend of mine in on the split for our current home due to a ****-bag of a sales agent who didn't even need to be involved. It is nice to help friends and family out. Hell, at the very least he can field all of the phone calls and nonsense.
      thats the other side of it... the money would be a big help to them. that and we wouldnt even ask him to do any work or advising, just use his license.

      in the end i could easily get my own license... if he agrees to it he'd be saving me time and effort and i'd have no issues paying him for it.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    14. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-10-2010 10:09 AM #39
      makes sense

    15. 08-10-2010 11:41 AM #40
      Just make sure he is aware of the approximate 70-30 split, insurance costs, taxes etc involved.

      Let' say you buy a $500k house with a 3% commission. $15k gross commission less $4500 to the broker, less say another $2k in start-up costs and than add-on around 30% in self employment taxes. He'll pocket close to $6k.

      Also keep in mind if he doesn't have some of the prereq classes its going to take him awhile to do those and than schedule for the exam.

    16. Senior Member ChrisMD's Avatar
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      08-10-2010 01:06 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      i appreciate the concern but he's not a realtor. he's just finished his 2nd or 3rd tour in iraq and graduated from grad school and looking for work. same with his fiancee (minus military). they'd readily welcome the money. it'd probably work out to 1.5-2 months of rent for them, which would be a real help.
      So you're already bitching about experienced agents and you think the reasonable solution is to hire someone who has absolutely no experience at all? Good luck with that.

    17. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      08-10-2010 01:51 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by ImRollin
      Also keep in mind if he doesn't have some of the prereq classes its going to take him awhile to do those and than schedule for the exam.
      he already has the license.

      Quote Originally Posted by chrismd
      So you're already bitching about experienced agents and you think the reasonable solution is to hire someone who has absolutely no experience at all? Good luck with that.
      re-read the thread. if you still can't figure out the difference let me know.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

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      08-10-2010 04:43 PM #43
      as has been pointed, sales people ask about your budget/pre-approval as qualifying questions to gauge how serious you are about buying whatever they're selling. whether it's a house, or a car, or something else - they sort of need to know before dedicating their time to answering your questions & it's merely common courtesy to let them know if what you can afford to spend is in the range of whatever they're marketing. if you don't think it's any of their business whatsoever (even just a range, not exact numbers) then don't be surprised if you get chitty service from them - if any at all.. especially if you're trying to book that sales persons time to come and demonstrate their product knowledge. why should they spend their time educating you about their product or service without them knowing whether they even have an opportunity to earn your business?

      as for realtors, the two main problems i see are:

      1) basic level of customer service has all but disappeared - even from highly lucrative service roles such as realtors. WTF is with this? IMO realtors should be providing good old fashioned 1950's style service with a smile, at a bare minimum.

      2) not only has the service level decreased, but the commissions have ballooned to astronomical figures without even having great customer service to accompany them!! never mind the fact that, IMO, realtors can & should be providing additional services of value to their clients in order to better earn the sums they're paid.

    19. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-10-2010 05:03 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by John Lee Pettimore View Post
      2) not only has the service level decreased, but the commissions have ballooned to astronomical figures without even having great customer service to accompany them!! never mind the fact that, IMO, realtors can & should be providing additional services of value to their clients in order to better earn the sums they're paid.
      you had me until this part.

      if a house is $300,000, then there's a 6% commission. that's 18,000. split between the agents, that's 9000. what does the broker get -- 60 or 70 percent? so then the agent walks away with $2700 or so, which after taxes and what not is maybe $1600? If you're closing a house every other week (good luck with that), you're taking home $35K a year. Not exactly rolling in the dough.

      The problem is, it's a field with a low barrier to entry --- take a course, pass a test, sign up, anyone will give you a job b/c it doesn't cost them to hire you. So there are a lot of people in the field who suck. But the people who are good are good for a reason. And the people who suck won't last. You just have to take some time to find someone who doesn't suck instead of just going to open houses and chatting with the person who happens to be the listing agent.

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      08-10-2010 05:26 PM #45
      managing brokers don't take anywhere near that amount from commissions here, so the agent does get the lions share of the commission - plus the fact that the average detached home price for the region is over $600k = they're getting paid a lot of money & providing crap service. and they should have been providing great service even back when houses were only $300k - now they should be going way above & beyond, IMO.

    21. Senior Member ChrisMD's Avatar
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      08-10-2010 05:48 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      re-read the thread. if you still can't figure out the difference let me know.
      Quite frankly, I don't have the attention span to wait for you to respond in another 10 days.

    22. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-10-2010 11:21 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by John Lee Pettimore View Post
      managing brokers don't take anywhere near that amount from commissions here, so the agent does get the lions share of the commission - plus the fact that the average detached home price for the region is over $600k = they're getting paid a lot of money & providing crap service. and they should have been providing great service even back when houses were only $300k - now they should be going way above & beyond, IMO.
      just out of curiosity, but how much experience do you have with first hand customer experience offered by brokers of $600k houses?

      and if the people doing now are so bad at it and it's so easy to make so much money, than why not do it? i'm not trying to be a wise-ass. seriously. if it's that easy and the competition is so terrible and its that much money, should be a solid employment opportunity, no?

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      08-11-2010 03:05 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      just out of curiosity, but how much experience do you have with first hand customer experience offered by brokers of $600k houses?

      and if the people doing now are so bad at it and it's so easy to make so much money, than why not do it? i'm not trying to be a wise-ass. seriously. if it's that easy and the competition is so terrible and its that much money, should be a solid employment opportunity, no?
      only house/home shopping with friends & family, not for my own purchase.

      and i know a handful of realtors & have met many others, both while performing their job as well as in social settings. their jobs aren't rocket surgery, but many still manage to mess them up.

      why not indeed.. especially since i've already studied for my licence in the past. we'll see what the future holds.

    24. 08-11-2010 11:12 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      you had me until this part.

      if a house is $300,000, then there's a 6% commission. that's 18,000. split between the agents, that's 9000. what does the broker get -- 60 or 70 percent? so then the agent walks away with $2700 or so, which after taxes and what not is maybe $1600? If you're closing a house every other week (good luck with that), you're taking home $35K a year. Not exactly rolling in the dough.
      Agent usually gets the 60 or 70%. Like any other sales job 10% of the people make 90% of the cash.

    25. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      10-12-2012 05:54 PM #50
      So after taking a break from the market for a while we were back to the point of keeping an eye on it. Were doing preliminary work with a realtor, someone highly recommended to us. As it turns out the woman my in-laws used 20 years ago and are still casual friends with is ranked as the best in Silicon Valley and a top 10 in the country by WSJ. Of course she is far far out of the range that could help us but she was happy enough to provide a (seemingly) great referral to someone that could help better in the $600-700k range.

      Well, started off fine but as we started to actually look at houses there was zero value this guy was able to offer. All the observations, market research, house research, etc. was done by me. He basically just agreed with us on any thought we had. We saw a possibly okay house and he told us how great the area is. So we go to the open house and it sucks. More research and all the nearby houses in this small area sold for the same or less in the past 12 months, nothing higher which really limits any upward price movement we could see. We don't want to be the best house on the block, which he knew ahead of time. We bring this up to him and suddenly he agrees its an area we shouldn't bother considering. Thanks.

      Anyhow he also highly recommended a mortgage broker, thought we would work great with her. Ok, so we e-mail her to get the ball rolling. Well after 2 weeks and asking our realtor what is going on the lady finally gets back to us. I read through her response (keep in mind she hasn't asked us a single question about what we want) and a few things become clear quickly. First she presented two options, one fixed and one adjustable. Well we aren't really interested in adjustable but the numbers looked odd to me. Some quick math the and adjustable she is quoting is interest only versus an amortizing fixed loan. Huh, odd but maybe an oversight.

      Keep reading more and she is trying to justify the adjustable by saying most bay area folks earn a bonus or have stock options they could pay the adjustable down quickly with. Hmm, odd again since she clearly doesn't know we both work for non-profits and have neither. Read a little more and she is stating that Bernanke hasn't raised rates recently so we will be okay. More reading and she is telling us to take a loan against our retirement accounts as our down-payment.

      Okay that's enough of this lady, she is spouting off all this without knowing a single thing about our situation. I bring this up to our realtor and now haven't heard back from him for weeks. The real kicker... we ask a friend who bought a house recently in the area which broker they as another direct referral and it was the same scumbag. Why the **** is it so god damn hard to find one reasonable non-scumbag in this industry?

      ----

      cliffs... got a referral from a highly respected professional, turns out to be nothing more than a yes man with no insights of his own, proceeds to highly recommend a broker who turns out to be the standard industry scumbag. Disgust with the industry continues...
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

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