OBD1 motronic tuning thread?

[TIGninja]

Anybody see this? Looks pretty bad ass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi_cQ...layer_embedded

[B4S]

I was doing that the other day, the Moates Ostrich is wicked .

Making good progress on my XDF, I've managed to compact all the ignition maps into one large one, so it's easier to tune. Gotta sort out which fuel maps to use to do the same thing on the fuel side, it'll make it waaaaaay easier to tune for boost.

[TIGninja]

I was doing that the other day, the Moates Ostrich is wicked .

Making good progress on my XDF, I've managed to compact all the ignition maps into one large one, so it's easier to tune. Gotta sort out which fuel maps to use to do the same thing on the fuel side, it'll make it waaaaaay easier to tune for boost.

Have you been watching the switch point for the throttle position on the part to full throttle maps? I like the stock style maps because you can create flat spots in your maps.

Its about time people start using this now wonderful piece of equipment. I predict that very soon people will be putting the OBD1 harnesses back in the cars they just took them out of for the same reasons the honda guys do the OBD1 conversions.

[TIGninja]

Also I am going to be going through how to scale oll the maps so it matches what you see on your vag com so all your logs make sense.

[radoman57]

I'm really interested in learning how this setup works out, I just don't have an application for it at the moment. Tuning vems stand alone now and learning alot along the way. So yes, I'm following this thread

[TIGninja]

Ok then I will keep adding how to add things to the defenition file if someone is paying attention. I will try to get some more up soon.

[B4S]

Have you been watching the switch point for the throttle position on the part to full throttle maps? I like the stock style maps because you can create flat spots in your maps.

Its about time people start using this now wonderful piece of equipment. I predict that very soon people will be putting the OBD1 harnesses back in the cars they just took them out of for the same reasons the honda guys do the OBD1 conversions.

Most of my work so far is theoretical, lol. Basically playing around with the hex at work, when I'm supposed to be working. I don't want to touch the fuel maps until I'm sure how they're used. For the ignition maps, all I've done so far is blend the 4 identical ones into a single map, and have left the idle and WOT maps alone. I don't work with WinOLS, so I've got to change all the parallel maps on my own and it's irritating. There's a MkIII cabby turbo in my garage currently, and once it's up and running, it'll be the test vehicle. I've had a little chance to play around, and have found which maps are the ISV control, coil dwell, MAF-linearization, air-temp transfer, and of course all the fuel/ignition ones...but no actual 'driving' yet .

[B4S]

Seems to me that folks are scared of tuning their own OBD1 ecus...
As a teaser, the Neuspeed P-chip for the ABA costs $110 from NS, and all they do is alter the part-throttle ignition maps. That's a $20 mod on a $0.50 chip...

A chip burner is $85, and the software is free..

[Dave926]

Probably why the nospeed chips suck. I have a autotech q-chip in mine, and I can tell you for sure they messed with the fuel. Runs pig rich on cold starts in the winter, and with a few quick stabs of the gas it will pump black smoke.

Any chance you will ever mess with obd2? I wish I knew more about dissecting the actual code, we could do some interesting things like anti lag like the dsm people or some form of launch control.

John finally put his chip in ecu, now he has to start it.

Procedure for tuner pro is
Load file to buffer
Program buffer to chip

Is this correct?

[B4S]

Yep, although I usually use a program called Emutility from Moates (free) to upload/download to the emulator. The latest version of TunerproRTv5 is a bit buggy, although it 'seems' to be ok when doing 32kb files. I had some issues doing OBD1 64kb files, and had to play with the settings for a while before it worked out.

[vergessen wir es]

I would like to tune OBD1 by emulation or whatever means.
What is a good place to start learning about the data structures and which addresses represent which info, or is that all parsed by tunerpro/other?
I am starting from nowhere here.

Also anybody know what the extra chip tucked under the C2 chip carrier is on OBD1 chip tunes?
I forgot to record that chip's part number. If no one knows I guess I'll have to go back in.

[TIGninja]

I would like to tune OBD1 by emulation or whatever means.
What is a good place to start learning about the data structures and which addresses represent which info, or is that all parsed by tunerpro/other?
I am starting from nowhere here.

Also anybody know what the extra chip tucked under the C2 chip carrier is on OBD1 chip tunes?
I forgot to record that chip's part number. If no one knows I guess I'll have to go back in.

As far as the C2 stuff goes they change some of the layout to suit their needs. Im not really sure why they did what they did but hey who cares I guess. I would be more inclined to tune off the stock format.

That said there is enough info in the link above to tune your car. All you need to do is play around with the free software untill your comfortable with it and learn the layout from the links I posted. Its not that hard. If someone is actually interested in this then they can ask me specific questions here. I will also archive it elsewhere to make sure this stays public information.

[scarboroughdub]

In order to modify map resolution you need to change other bits in the code so the processor know to look there. Send me your latest xdf and I will pointout what you are missing.

[TIGninja]

And why do you need to change map resolution?

[ade007]

i rescale the rpm axis and the load axis to give more resolution example stock vr6 maps rpm is around
6500 ..i rev to 7500rpm ....so with a stock maps when im 7500rpm the ecu would calculate from the last
used bin at 6500rpm ...you can still get a good tune with stock axis

[B4S]

I've got an OBD1 M2.9 XDF...it's got all 186 maps on it .

Now...I haven't identified them all, but it's getting there! www.ecuconnections.com is a great place to learn about Motronic tuning, as is www.motronic.ws/

[B4S]

Just bought this:

http://www.theprodmeeditor.com/

Seems to be a great Motronic tuning software package, can't wait to try it out .

[TIGninja]

Be interesting what maps they give you to work with. Other then that it will still have to be transposed to tunerpro to run the emulator. Let me know when you get this and I will help you set it up.

[B4S]

The previous version of the software required the user to insert the hex addresses, it did the rest of the calcs. It apparently gives you what you put in, which saves a lot of farting around with tunerpro to set up the axis' (although I've already done that). I've identified most of the 'main' maps, and traced them on a buddy's car, just don't have steady MkIII access right now to experiment .

I'll post up when I get the software, for sure. The owner is out of town right now, so on sunday he's going to send me the download package. Can't wait to play with it .

Tunerpro is still going to be used with my Ostrich, obviously, since the tracing works great. The DME Editor will probably end up being a secondary tool to help sort out the mapping.

[TIGninja]

The previous version of the software required the user to insert the hex addresses, it did the rest of the calcs. It apparently gives you what you put in, which saves a lot of farting around with tunerpro to set up the axis' (although I've already done that). I've identified most of the 'main' maps, and traced them on a buddy's car, just don't have steady MkIII access right now to experiment .

I'll post up when I get the software, for sure. The owner is out of town right now, so on sunday he's going to send me the download package. Can't wait to play with it .

Tunerpro is still going to be used with my Ostrich, obviously, since the tracing works great. The DME Editor will probably end up being a secondary tool to help sort out the mapping.

Well I was going to show everyone how to set up the main low,high,and full throttle fuel and timing maps in tunerpro. There are some other things that we can add in as well like cold start and injector size.

[BARELY LEGAL]

Watching. Hope I can figure out just enough of what you guys know to tune my setup without messing anything up. Thanks!

[B4S]

Well I was going to show everyone how to set up the main low,high,and full throttle fuel and timing maps in tunerpro. There are some other things that we can add in as well like cold start and injector size.

I'm down with that .
I have a 'raw' XDF of all 186 M2.9 maps, if you'd like to see it. I think I sent it over before, but there might have been some errors in that version.

I'd love to know exactly which maps are the main, low, mid, WOT maps. Ignition is fairly easy to sort, since there is only one descriptor used, but the fueling confuses me with multiple maps using different descriptors .

[Jefnes3]

If you guys want some help just ask.

Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport

[TIGninja]

If you guys want some help just ask.

Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport

Are you going to help me convince people that they can actually do this?

[B4S]

If you guys want some help just ask.

Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport

LOL! Love the hex string on your page .

[VDUBIN]

watching... I am currently tuning ms MS system and loving it, but would love to try tuning the OE computer.

[B4S]

Got the software, so far it seems quite interesting. It's necessary to input the addresses of each map, but the program deciphers the header on it's own, making axis population a breeze (if you don't have WinOLS). You have to populate the descriptor lookup table, with the characters and the offsets/conversions, as well as sort out the checksum calculation, but it's fairly simple with the early motronics. There is no need to program in the size of the x-y axis', since it interprets the header automatically, which I like . Tell it to look for a 3D table at XXXX, and it does the rest.

[TIGninja]

Got the software, so far it seems quite interesting. It's necessary to input the addresses of each map, but the program deciphers the header on it's own, making axis population a breeze (if you don't have WinOLS). You have to populate the descriptor lookup table, with the characters and the offsets/conversions, as well as sort out the checksum calculation, but it's fairly simple with the early motronics. There is no need to program in the size of the x-y axis', since it interprets the header automatically, which I like . Tell it to look for a 3D table at XXXX, and it does the rest.

Its so simple once you read the links I have posted. Once you know the RPM and MAF descriptor number the maps pop out at you right away. If you use an emulator its just like tuning a standalone. People think this takes some kind of computer nerd to do it but its really pretty simple.

[ade007]

If you guys want some help just ask.

Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport

do you no if there is a 8bit or 16bit single value injector constant in the obd1 m2.9 vr6 ecus

[B4S]

Its so simple once you read the links I have posted. Once you know the RPM and MAF descriptor number the maps pop out at you right away. If you use an emulator its just like tuning a standalone. People think this takes some kind of computer nerd to do it but its really pretty simple.

Dude, maybe I missed something, but the only link you've posted in this thread is the Youtube one. I'm going to use this software to complement my XDF, since I've put a ton of work into it already, and Tunerpro is needed for the tracing anyway. I just like having a selection of tools to accomplish a single task, options rule .

[TIGninja]

Dude, maybe I missed something, but the only link you've posted in this thread is the Youtube one. I'm going to use this software to complement my XDF, since I've put a ton of work into it already, and Tunerpro is needed for the tracing anyway. I just like having a selection of tools to accomplish a single task, options rule .

Surprise the link went missing.

http://www.vwforum.com/forums/f11/ob...-thread-43655/

[B4S]

Ah ha, the good stuff .

I just registered, I'm following that thread, DEFINITELY!

[TIGninja]

If I get bored today I will show everyone how to set up the main fuel and timing tables in tunerpro.

[magner]

this looks intresting but a lil expensive programable digital maf with usb plug
whats your thoughts http://www.abacoperformance.com/

[Ex-ricer01]

all very intresting, definatley watching. dont quite understand all of it yet but it is something i would like to learn.

one question though... does this have the potential to convert tunes to blow thru maf tunes?