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    Thread: Mk1 1Z/AHU M-TDI

    1. Member 8v-of-fury's Avatar
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      08-04-2010 09:11 PM #1
      I have just picked up a 1998 AHU complete donor, and my plans are to swap the engine and trans in to my 1981 Jetta. I understand that the newer motor will accept all the same motor mounts from the 1.6D, but the trans mount may need to be fabbed up, which isn't a big deal really. Also I understand the new motor is a drive by wire and a cable shifted transmission.. I have the entire car, so I will have practically any part necessary from the mk3 side of things.

      A thought was brought to my mind.. converting the car to CE2, or using the entire harness from the 98 and put it in the 81.. both of these were brought to the front of my brain, but i know nothing of either, care to explain it to me?

      I will have (hopefully if I can get it going) another car to drive while this one takes the garage spot for a while.. so I will have to rip the interior apart to make the shifter happen as I have to cut out the old one.. and this one will need to be fit in there somehow (anyone got a link as to how they have seen the cable shift adapted to an mk1?).

      Also on the pedal cluster, how does this work out? (anyone cross over any good threads on this part either?) I am still on the learning curve of a lot of this stuff as to how to get the engine operating properly in the mk1. The car is in my possession so I will begin to tinker around on it and figure out the TDI diesel side of things. I mean I am not a complete invalid I have researched a bit on how the TDI's function so I am good on that part.

      Also this engine has an A/c compressor and my car once had A/c.. could this be made to work out or what? I mean I guess there really is no reason why it couldn't work right? A couple fittings should hook things up nicely eh? Could I actually use the lines from the AHU engine? and run them in to the condenser in the car?

      The turbo spools up niiicely its starting its spool at like 1400 and is screaming by 23-2500, I'm very excited!

      I would appreciate every piece of information you have to provide! I have been doing lots of reading, but the same info twice is never a bad thing.. just makes understanding it easier Eh?

      Thanks so much guys, wish me luck on this project!!

    2. 08-04-2010 11:31 PM #2
      Sounds like a cool project.
      I hope you document it here even though I think this forum is the last place to ask for most of this info.

    3. Member ronnie_v's Avatar
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      08-05-2010 08:15 AM #3
      Around here, people make the engine an M-TDI. They lose all the electronics, and just mount an mechanical pump. Of an old volkswagen LT, i believe.

    4. Member 8v-of-fury's Avatar
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      08-05-2010 11:24 AM #4
      A1 thanks man! just what I was looking for perfect. I was unaware that it was a combination of those swaps (1.8T, ABA, VR) that makes it easy to find some build threads as they are frequent swaps, and pick out all the information I need! Thank-you very much! I may very well just do a good compilation of all the info I find and make up an AHU->Mk1 thread. Yes the mk3 TDI (only came in 96 Passats and 97-98 Jetta's for mk3) were drive by wire, and ECU controlled. Which is actually a very good for the pump timing as it adjusts itself to a wide variety of timing numbers to have the best fueling and injection timing all the time. I was totally thinking of your piggy backing idea A1 but I don't think it will work quite the same way, as I think I may also need the mk3 cluster Which is awesome because it has a tach! SCORE lol I will read through a couple really in depth swap threads and combine all the information I need, thanks a bunch. Also the condenser is all that is left of my current A/C it has had the compressor taken away some time ago. The old systems are upgradable to the new stuff no? this should be totally doable really, if you could just get the fittings right to hook the new compressor up to the old condenser no? Why are you against A/C? lol I think it would be a crazy luxury on a car with crank windows and manual locks

      Mr. Shanahan, it appears a good place to ask for the info as it seems to be just a bunch of Gasser stuff all in one. I asked here mainly for the volume of people that pass through the MK1 forum, easy to get someone who knows TDI stuff as well who is just passing through eh? It worked to pull A1 in with his infinite knowledge on swaps and other assorted tomfoolery

      Ronnie, Yeah I have read a bit on the M-TDI side of stuff, and I don't think it is a route I wish to go just yet. Maybe in the future I'd like to experiment with it. For now however a straight TDI swap seems easiest/cheapest for me, present time.

      Few more questions regarding what I should keep off the donor, as the shell has to be gone A.S.A.P!


      I will need;


      • Engine and Trans
      • All Engine Wiring (should I just keep the entire car wiring harness for the hell of it???)
      • Fuse-box
      • Cluster
      • Engine Harness
      • ECU
      • Axles (I think I will need inner flanges to adapt to my axles?? if I am not mistaken??)
      • Shifter cables as well as the shifter box



      Anyone see anything crucial I might be missing?

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      08-05-2010 01:28 PM #5
      It looks like you're on the right path thus far with this build.
      Last edited by Rhetoric; 08-05-2010 at 01:38 PM.

    6. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      08-05-2010 01:32 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by A1steaksauce View Post
      late model cabriolets are not CE2 and will not plug and play into a MK3 fuse block
      Glad someone caught that.

      They are CE1
      Quote Originally Posted by ein View Post
      * IMPORTANT* The English language is completely inadequate for describing how spectacularly stupid this thread is.

    7. Member
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      08-05-2010 01:37 PM #7
      Huh, I learn something new everyday. I redact my original statement.

    8. Member syracusegli's Avatar
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      08-05-2010 02:25 PM #8
      depends on how much of the donor car comforts you would like to keep..

      i would prolly swap everything.. simplify the wiring, swap all that.. i would swap the shift box to keep it hydraulic and mount the master cylinder somewheres..

      vr did the hydro master swap cuz he put the vr in .. check his thread for an idea/example of what you could do..
      Quote Originally Posted by 2mAn View Post
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      08-05-2010 02:47 PM #9
      i started a thread asking about about mk3 a/c in a mk1 about 6-8 months ago..


      edit:
      here
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ight=mk3+a%2Fc

    10. Member ronnie_v's Avatar
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      08-05-2010 04:30 PM #10
      i build an 1.9 afn tdi in a mk1 golf last year. And i fitted an corrado gearbox to it, with cables.
      Took all the hydraulic stuff from the clutch-system off, and replaced the cilynder on the transmission with an mechanical part of an vw transporter ( t3). This way you can use the old clutch cable.

    11. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      08-05-2010 08:57 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by A1steaksauce View Post
      the clutch cable setup in this instance is crappy when you compare it to the hydro setup....very few people are rocking a cable setup for just that reason...i mean if you are going thru all the trouble to fab everything in what's a bracket and a couple of hydro lines?

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...etup-into-Blue.
      especially when eurospeed sells a kit
      Quote Originally Posted by ein View Post
      * IMPORTANT* The English language is completely inadequate for describing how spectacularly stupid this thread is.

    12. Member ultravw's Avatar
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      08-06-2010 02:09 AM #12
      I have swaped a 96 Passat TDI into a 81 rabbit truck but I did not use the o2A trans but the original o2o five speed and flywheel. The 81 AC brackets, alternator and motor mounts all bolt on with minor triming to the inner timing cover shield and modification to the engine cover support bracket. The Passat's throttle potentiometer was installed by modifing its plate to fit the A1 pedal cluster. I combined the Passat's schematic to the 81 truck's schematic. Not to many of the wires are needed to get it running properly, but this is not currently using the Passat's instrument cluster.

      I have another 96 Passat TDI setup I am planning to install in my 82 Rabbit truck and plan to use the 96 accessories and o2A trans so I would also like to know the best way to install the hydrolic cylinder and cable shifter as well as the transaxle mount.

    13. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      08-06-2010 02:14 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by ultravw View Post
      I have another 96 Passat TDI setup I am planning to install in my 82 Rabbit truck and plan to use the 96 accessories and o2A trans so I would also like to know the best way to install the hydrolic cylinder and cable shifter as well as the transaxle mount.
      Build or buy mounts, modify your pedal/ bracket or buy the eurospeed one.
      Quote Originally Posted by ein View Post
      * IMPORTANT* The English language is completely inadequate for describing how spectacularly stupid this thread is.

    14. Senior Member vdubspeed's Avatar
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      08-06-2010 08:29 AM #14
      eurospeed's 02a hydro clutch sucks.

      Buy a welder, learn to fab your own shiz.

      Some people like the clutch 02a but I HATED it. I used a eurovan and honda cable and never got it to feel good. I have a hydro clutch with an 02j and it feels great.

      Your a/c might be an issue if the compressor hits the crossmember like an ABA. I know I had to do some extensive work to keep the a/c in my 1.8t rabbit but damns it's nice to have 263whp and a/c.

      Diesel swap is cake especically if the car is already a diesel. DO NOT swap the entire harness just for the engine on a diesel. If all the car stuff works(lights, wipers, cluster, etc) then just splice in the engine.

      I've never done a 1.9 swap but I've done a lot of other swaps and like someone mentioned already...a 1.9 is will be like mixing some other swaps so generally searching will help.

      HTH,

      Jason
      Built > Bought
      58 Beetle | 79 Rabbit 20vT | 84 GTI TDI |84 GTI 16vT |12 Golf TDI ----89 325i | 99 QCSB Ram Cummins | 02 Burb 4x4 2500

    15. Member TheBurninator's Avatar
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      08-06-2010 11:50 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by A1steaksauce View Post
      apparently some have missed the link i was posting

      here's, in my opinion, the best way to go about doing so:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...etup-into-Blue
      reading is for dummies
      Quote Originally Posted by ein View Post
      * IMPORTANT* The English language is completely inadequate for describing how spectacularly stupid this thread is.

    16. Member hillgiant's Avatar
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      08-06-2010 05:15 PM #16
      A zero-rewire* solution is to find an AAZ fuel pump and get it converted to M-TDI. There are at least two companies that will handle the conversion if you send them a core. Then it is a matter of attaching a gear and getting a belt to it. M-TDI is not likely to be as efficient as the drive by wire setup. But overall, I think the installation would be easier if the car is already diesel.

      *almost zero: fan switch, glow plugs, and whatever instrumentation you want need to be sorted.

    17. Member glx2.8's Avatar
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      08-09-2010 03:12 PM #17
      thought about doing this swap myself over the winter into my cabby, but my OG motor gave out before then so i just said to hell with it ill toss in a 20vt

      since you are in ontario, you may want to talk to cliff at ESS, he is just finishing up my 1.8t swap into my mk1...

      yes the O2A needs a modified mount, i know where you can get one.

      i didn't think ahu tdis were drive by wire but thats just me, i can take some pictures but like i said before talk to cliff at ESS because he changed my car to drive by cable as opposed to drive by wire.

    18. Member 8v-of-fury's Avatar
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      08-10-2010 01:15 AM #18
      Hey guys thanks for all the replies,

      I know the engine can be modified to drive by cable by fitting a mechanical TDI pump to it, but i dont think its something I want to do.. as it will be just as much work as fitting the drive by wire pedal I'm sure. LOL

      I have decided to keep the car for the time being, and do some off the road work on my 81 before I take this engine

    19. Member 8v-of-fury's Avatar
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      08-20-2010 10:48 PM #19
      ok so i have a few more questions on just how deep i should go with this swap!!

      A friend of mine who is pretty fluent on MK3's said that if I don't keep the antitheft part of the harness the ECU will go in to a sort of lock-down mode when the system is not disarmed when the doors are unlocked.. SO! i was thinking..

      If I'm gonna do this.. I think I should really do this

      Maybe I should swap the FULL CE2 harness.. Right down to the cluster & power locks.. Ehh ehh?? Maybe I should even keep the dash.. for further possibilities??? That would be pretty cool to do as well down the line...

      I mean it would essentially make the electrical part of the swap a ton easier.. more work, but easier work really I think. Label every thing and then run it through the 81, then meter out what does what.. one at a time eh? The only one I seeing giving trouble is the cabin fan motor and the brake lights .. How will the mk1 pedal cluster and brake switch trigger the mk3 wiring? What would be involved at swapping the whole pedal cluster over??

      glx2.8 I will be pm'ng you following this post on that tranny mount. Also I don't think there is anyway to go about modifying the TDI drive by wire to cable other than making it an M-TDI.

      The axle ends will come off the mk3 axles and go on the mk1 axles in the car correct? to get that all in order as well.. just trying to cover my bases before i get to deep on this.

      thanks people!

    20. Member 4000stq's Avatar
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      08-21-2010 05:00 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by 8v-of-fury View Post
      ok so i have a few more questions on just how deep i should go with this swap!!

      A friend of mine who is pretty fluent on MK3's said that if I don't keep the antitheft part of the harness the ECU will go in to a sort of lock-down mode when the system is not disarmed when the doors are unlocked.. SO! i was thinking..

      If I'm gonna do this.. I think I should really do this

      Maybe I should swap the FULL CE2 harness.. Right down to the cluster & power locks.. Ehh ehh?? Maybe I should even keep the dash.. for further possibilities??? That would be pretty cool to do as well down the line...

      I mean it would essentially make the electrical part of the swap a ton easier.. more work, but easier work really I think. Label every thing and then run it through the 81, then meter out what does what.. one at a time eh? The only one I seeing giving trouble is the cabin fan motor and the brake lights .. How will the mk1 pedal cluster and brake switch trigger the mk3 wiring? What would be involved at swapping the whole pedal cluster over??

      glx2.8 I will be pm'ng you following this post on that tranny mount. Also I don't think there is anyway to go about modifying the TDI drive by wire to cable other than making it an M-TDI.

      The axle ends will come off the mk3 axles and go on the mk1 axles in the car correct? to get that all in order as well.. just trying to cover my bases before i get to deep on this.

      thanks people!
      looks like this project will be way over your head, good luck anyway.
      loud `n low, rollin' coal

    21. Member 8v-of-fury's Avatar
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      08-21-2010 08:48 PM #21
      aww really? come on be supportive not negative.

      How am I supposed to learn anything if I never ask any questions? Yes this thread has been useful in that it has answered a lot of questions of mine, especially you A1. Thank-you for your knowledge.

      Sure those things may be stupid but it would be fun to do it, have an alarm system / Central Locking in a sh!tty 81 Jetta!?!? Can't you see the awesome behind this?

      I was unaware that the mk3 still used just a plain switch to send power to the brake lights.. seems to me a relay should have been used for the three brake lights it has. I may not be as knowledgeable on wiring as yourself there A1, but I'm still only a year-half young at doing wiring. So forgive my incompetence. I argued the point to him that it should be an easy solution to get the anti theft system out of the equation.. only reason i thought he was correct is because i thought the anti-theft was part of the ECU.

      This simplifies a few things really well then. Thank you

      Now I need your insight on which route to start with.. I mean swapping in the full shebam to begin with is a lot at once, and I don't have a welder just yet (on my wish list) so metal fab is tricky to accomplish.. so what i was thinking would be to mate the 1.9 to the 020 to start with.. maintain the stock speedo, stock cluster really. Upon thinking however, the wiring swap will not leave anything for the cluster to plug in too.. JEsus..

      New Game Plan. gonna have to do it all at once. Engine, Trans, CE2, Cluster, Shifter, Clutch.

      I've seen and read good methods on how to do the clutch so that shouldn't be too much trouble.. gonna have to borrow a welder. The Shifter looks interesting, Funksoulkitty did an excellent job of mounting hers. to me from her pics it looks like she mounted it up through the bottom then used that cross brace to hold it up and in? Interesting. Mind you she is using a 02J, which may or may not be different then the 02A shifter..



      Is this really enough to hold that whole assembly in there without any rear bracing??

      Engine mounts, the front and passenger one from the original 1.6 diesel will fit yes? trimmed to just bolt to the block i think i have seen. what about the tranny mount on the back of the engine? How will this bolt up?

      @4000 you never tackle a big project you never tried before? or did you just know how to do everything from the start? myself, I gotta start somewhere. Might as well be a challenge no?

    22. 08-21-2010 09:05 PM #22
      I have a 1.9TDI engnie to swap a volkswagen T3, any information about what gearbox can be running????

    23. Member 4000stq's Avatar
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      08-21-2010 11:48 PM #23
      not using the TDI trans from the mk3 would be dumb. the 02a trans is stronger and has taller gears. running the 020 (assuming, an FN or FH)you would be limited (by RPM) to about 90mph depending on tire size . the only reason not to run the 02a would be if you couldn't find/afford one. but you have the whole car so.....
      Last edited by 4000stq; 08-22-2010 at 01:17 AM.
      loud `n low, rollin' coal

    24. Member Shawn B's Avatar
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      08-22-2010 02:08 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by vdubspeed View Post
      Buy a welder, learn to fab your own shiz.

      Some people like the clutch 02a but I HATED it. I used a eurovan and honda cable and never got it to feel good. I have a hydro clutch with an 02j and it feels great.
      I run a custom built tranny mount and no rear mount with my O2J set up. Also using the the hydro to cable adapter with the Honda clutch cable. My clutch feels fine.

    25. Member 8v-of-fury's Avatar
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      08-22-2010 10:43 PM #25
      no rear mount eh? Only run the two sides and the front? Isn't that kind of sketchy? I mean i'm not saying it is as I have no idea.. but what holds all the torquing from the engine?

      Cable Clutch seems to be an alright option as well really. what is all required here? haven't come across any definitive answers on it really.

      @4000 I agree with you %100, it would be dumb to run the old outdated 020 that will detonate under the %280 increase in torque..

      Engine, Trans, Shifter, Clutch, CE2, Cluster. Hefty.

      EDIT: Upon further looking upon the cable clutch... holy expensive! Seems for the price its worth tackling a hydro setup.. Doesn't seem too hard. Just gotta get me a welder!
      Last edited by 8v-of-fury; 08-22-2010 at 10:46 PM.

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