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    Thread: Build Thread: The Greenland Polo

    1. Member BattleRabbit's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 11:30 PM #71
      Go for the 11" brake upgrade! Even in a car that small and light I would want more brakes with a 1.8T under the hood.

      Excellent project!
      1998 VW Golf Mk.III 5dr/1989 Saab 900 Sedan/1960 Porsche 356B T5/1980 Honda CM400E

    2. 08-27-2010 12:36 AM #72
      Interesting project, I'm looking forward to following along



      But more importantly;

      Quote Originally Posted by the brit View Post

      (stuff)

      Enjoy, Jamie.
      and

      Quote Originally Posted by the brit View Post
      I just brought in a 1982 Breadvan for my wife as well
      wait, huh?
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      This has to be my jam right now. If I had a few more subcontractors intothis type of **** the old lady would be done by now. Give me the kayak you know somebody is being a poseureur about.
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    3. 08-29-2010 02:31 AM #73
      following this now.

    4. Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 04:30 AM #74
      I think it would be fun to contact Greenland Contractors and see if they have any information on the car. I love the project and can't wait to see how it turns out!

    5. Member vivalahatch's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 05:36 AM #75
      I know nothing about military logistics, but does anybody know why they would ship a non-US car with no engine to the a base in VA in the first place?

      P.S. this is way more interesting than I would have thought possible.

    6. Member MikkiJayne's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 07:09 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by peoples_car View Post


      wait, huh?
      'Breadvan' is a uniquely British nickname for the mk2 and 3 Polo Hatchbacks. There were three body styles - coupe, sedan (known as 'Classic'), and this odd station-wagon-esque hatch:

      Hatchback, aka 'Breadvan':



      Coupe:



      Sedan:



      These are mk2s. All three were available in the facelift mk3 version too. When the mk4 was introduced the breadvan styling stayed, but the coupe was dropped:

      Hatchback:



      Sedan (Classic):



      Wagon (Variant):



      Overhaulin' style model rundown yeah
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

    7. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 12:22 PM #77
      I'm still exhausted after yesterday's solid day of work, with two good friends helping out. I didn't take the photos yesterday, so they'll be emailed to me later so I'll update fully later on. Here's the To-Do list though:




      [and yes, somehow I scribbled Blead Brakes, instead of Bleed Brakes.. I have no idea what I was thinking!]


      Quote Originally Posted by peoples_car View Post

      'Jamie'

      and

      'I have a wife'

      wait, huh?
      Jamie@vwvortex is a girl, jamie (me) is a boy. It's that simple

      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      I think it would be fun to contact Greenland Contractors and see if they have any information on the car. I love the project and can't wait to see how it turns out!
      I agree. I've been searching Google Images for photos of the cars, in the background of other shots etc, but haven't found anything yet.

      Quote Originally Posted by vivalahatch View Post
      I know nothing about military logistics, but does anybody know why they would ship a non-US car with no engine to the a base in VA in the first place?
      It's a complete mystery, and I agree that it makes NO sense. Thule is the only USA AFB with a deepwater port, so perhaps they had a ship taking other junk out and the Polos got thrown in with them? I asked the base personnel when I collected the car, but they did not know. They did give me a LOT of paperwork which was cool, and they genuinely seemed surprised that I was going to rebuild the car and not use it for scrap metal. The other three Polos that were brought at the same time were in worse body shape, but did have engines - but they have not resurfaced that I have seen. I got a chance to look at them very quickly, and they were pretty tired - oil filler caps left off engines, smashed quarter panels etc.

      Quote Originally Posted by MikkiJayne View Post
      'Breadvan' is a uniquely British nickname for the mk2 and 3 Polo Hatchbacks. There were three body styles - coupe, sedan (known as 'Classic'), and this odd station-wagon-esque hatch:
      Nice explanation (although I think he was making fun of the fact that Jamie@Vwvortex' gender is almost a meme around here) The 6KV model breakdown is pretty interesting too - that it has little to do with the matching Polo models, and is simply a direct rebadge of the Seat models. The taillights fascinate me - the Cordoba has shorter looking taillights, but it's actually the exact same height assembly but with a body color filler panel built in. Neat stuff.
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    8. Member MikkiJayne's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 01:19 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by the brit View Post
      Nice explanation (although I think he was making fun of the fact that Jamie@Vwvortex' gender is almost a meme around here)
      Damn I missed that completely.
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

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      08-29-2010 02:23 PM #79
      watching this
      Quote Originally Posted by Zhine
      Power sliding is not worth it, I realized I was addicted and have taken up a much healthier safer hobby called high school girls

    10. 08-30-2010 01:16 PM #80
      Here's a teaser from Saturday:

      Shop Truck - Round 3: Back With a Vengeance?!

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      08-30-2010 01:21 PM #81
      I really wish there was some way i could see it, touch it, look it over for it's uniqueness on this continent looks like you're having fun, no one better could have picked it up who knows what they're doing!
      A2Resource
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    12. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-30-2010 11:21 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by VDub2625 View Post
      I really wish there was some way i could see it, touch it, look it over for it's uniqueness on this continent looks like you're having fun, no one better could have picked it up who knows what they're doing!
      Aww, thanks

      I guess on that note, I'll go ahead and make it public that I intend to be driving this car to the H2O VW show in Ocean City, MD on the final weekend on September (yes, 2010). That leaves me three weekends to get the engine finished, installed and wired, and then all the other stuff bolted up and sorted, and finally to get it inspected. Anyone want to make odds on the chances of that all happening?



      And now, some photos and updates from Saturdays' work:

      This is how the old suspension along with the vented (good), but 9.4" (bad) rotors looked at the beginning. This style bearing hub and caliper setup is the same as mk2 Golf GTIs had, which suffer from the upgrade restriction of not having a seperate caliper carrier. Due to the car being stood and rolled around with no axles installed, it's a safe bet that the bearings are dead, so it was a two-birds-with-one-stone deal that a brake upgrade was in order. To go up in size I needed to switch out to a mk3 Golf/Jetta hub, which allowed working bearings to go in at the same time, and either 10.1" or 11" brakes depending on the caliper and matching carrier. With a quick trip to the junkyard, a nice low mileage set of 10.1" hubs etc were sourced and mated with some new rotors etc (Brembo factory rotors are $14 each new, so it's not even worse considering running used ones). If I choose to go up to 11" front discs in the future, it's now a simple task of bolting on the rotors and caliper etc, no removal of the hubs, axles, tie-rods etc.




      Draining the remainder of the old fluid. Not pictured is the cleaning of the control arms, nor the installation of the coilovers. Between rusted bolts and fading light, I think all three of us were too busy to remember the camera, sorry. :



      The Bentley manual confirmed that this style of ABS unit can be bled in the usual fashion, but the slave for the clutch pedal needed to be replaced. The person who removed the engine had unceremoniously cut the old one off, leaving the stump of the old hose attached. I had a spare one laying around, which was re-angled to match the Polo and then bolted up by Ben.




      New fluid in, bled no problems, and a extra free shot of the wiring fun to come:




      Remember that I said the bottom of the car has a amazing layer of really fine almost volcanic mud all over it? Here's some of it that's crumbled off and is coating my driveway:




      Speaking of my driveway, this was how it looked on Saturday. The dark red car is my 1982 Polo (breadvan), and behind the two Polos is Eric (the other friend that helped on Saturday)'s BMW 2002. He's only had one really crappy 3 series front seat installed since he bought the car..




      Said crappy seat, tilted all the way back because it sat so high that he couldn't drive it without crushing his head against the roof (so he says.. it might be because he lives in downtown Philly, and wants to fit it more.)




      So, in between installing Coilovers, hubs, brakes, door vapor barriers, a door card, unloading engine hoist and engine and whatever else we did to the Polo, we also welded up some new seat brackets for his 2002. We decided that in the interests of time we would drag my welding setup away from the table in the basement and tack weld them in the car, which lead to just fully welding the things on the driveway. [NB: Protective Livestrong band.]:




      And now his passengers don't all have sit in the backseat ala a old Beetle taxi in Mexico City, and his drivers seat doesn't have the gangster lean going on either. Nice period correct grey Recaros with Gold edging trim too.



      Huge thanks to Ben and Eric for hanging out and helping get so much work done, and yeah, to everyone following the thread
      Last edited by the brit; 08-30-2010 at 11:24 PM.
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    13. Member MikkiJayne's Avatar
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      08-31-2010 07:30 AM #83
      Wait, did that have a rod-shifter but hydraulic clutch I'm going to have to look that up to see what trans was in it originally...

      Nice ink in that top pic btw! Who's arm is that?

      I wish I could come to H2O this year. So many great projects to see
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

    14. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-31-2010 09:49 AM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by MikkiJayne View Post
      Wait, did that have a rod-shifter but hydraulic clutch I'm going to have to look that up to see what trans was in it originally...

      Nice ink in that top pic btw! Who's arm is that?
      Yes, exactly - very strange setup, and I wish I'd been able to see it! A five speed rod shifter mechanical linkage setup but with a hydraulic clutch. I have a very small amount of the shift rod as seen in some of the photos, and a little bit from where it attached to the steering rack, otherwise it's a mystery and I have never seen a transmission that uses that setup, only the reverse (cable shifter with clutch cable ala some Eurovans etc).

      The only mention of the transmission on the build sheet is that the 'kupplungstyp' (clutch) is a Mechanical, Dry Single Disc and that the getrienetyp (transmission) is Manual, and the gear ratios were as following:

      1. 3.455
      2. 1.944
      3. 1.286
      4. 0.909
      5. 0.745
      F. 3.667

      From looking in ETKA, the 1999/2000 Polos used just about every transmission made at the time, O2O, O2J, O2K etc, but I can't spot one with that style setup.

      The car also has a drive by wire setup, which surprised me.

      Oh, and it's my arm
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    15. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-31-2010 09:48 PM #85
      Today was unexciting, but steps forwards.

      • Drilled out 3 broken exhaust studs on the AEB 1.8T. Extracted a fourth one. Waiting for the new ones to show up before I can get the exhaust manifold and turbo on.

        Bolted on the intake manifold (thanks to Mike @ Euro Werks for that, and a surplus turbo with oil lines)

        That's it.


      More work tomorrow I guess.
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      09-01-2010 10:59 PM #86
      Finished drilling out the studs, tapped to repair the threads and got the new studs in.




      Got the transverse turbo manifold bolted on with new gasket etc.




      Ben (thanks again for coming out to help) replaced the crank seal (shiny new part) and bolted on the metal gasket thing that goes between the block and the trans (dirty old part):




      While I was walking past the radiator (short style from a european market mk2 16v GTI - thank goodness I had it sitting around), I swapped over the old '80s style temperature sensor to the '90s style with the square connector:




      Ben also bolted in the engine mounts to the subframe and put the drive-by-cable throttle body on, while I finished bolting up the exhaust manifold.

      The AEB cylinder head fouls the turbo on two small spots, so I will remove (i.e. grind to death) those spots tomorrow.

      And speaking of tomorrow here's the list of the next steps of work, as much for my mental wellbeing as for your entertainment:

      • BUY
      • Turbo->Manifold Bolts ($6 each, blah).
      • Oil return->Oil Pan gasket
      • Fuel Pump Setup including fittings - YIKES - car still has diesel parts, needs to be converted to gasoline.
      • Exhaust manifold - 3 nuts, 2 washers.

        Research
      • Intercooler Options - how do mk3/mk2 Golf/Jettas run one? Front mount? Side mount?
      • Turbo lines - 2 x threaded outlets at top. 1 x banjo outlet facing block, 1 x house @ inlet
      • Engine mount->subframe mount bolt sizes.
      • Crank Pulley options - needs to line up with alt (ABF style) + waterpump (VR6) pulleys.
      • Fuel lines in car, which is feed and return? 1 x black line, 1 x thinner blue line.
      • Fueling options. Mk3 Golf/Jetta direct swap?



      I've been thinking that instead of running a stock sidemount, it might be more fun and easier to run a front mount setup. In fitting with the 'only spending fun fund money' I've made a classifieds thread for lots of the leftover B5 Passat parts.. It's here, if you or anyone you know might need a spare tiptronic transmission or turbo etc.
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    17. Social Media Iron Man(and Administrator) jebglx's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 11:52 AM #87
      can't wait to see this at the end of the month.

      very cool

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      09-02-2010 12:26 PM #88
      I would double check those fuel lines are capable of withstanding system pressure for the gas engine (I want to to say they are usually 3.5bar?) not sure what kind of pressure the diesel supply pump put out but you may end up needing to change them.

      Easiest way to tell would be to find out if gas and diesel cars got the same lines.
      Dave

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      09-02-2010 12:58 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by rs4-380 View Post

      Easiest way to tell would be to find out if gas and diesel cars got the same lines.
      Exactly what I'm planning on doing. I know that the fuel sender retaining ring is the same as mk3 G/J etc, so hopefully a lot more of it crosses over too, both between the Polo Diesel->Gas and Polo->Golf/Jetta.

      I also need to work out which crank pulley I need to run. Ahh, the thrill of the hunt.
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    20. Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 01:12 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by the brit View Post

      Just wondering, if you cleaned off all the mud in this shot would it be mostly rust free? It's hard to tell what's mud and what's rust in some pictures.

    21. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 01:18 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      Just wondering, if you cleaned off all the mud in this shot would it be mostly rust free? It's hard to tell what's mud and what's rust in some pictures.
      It's amazing how clean it is under all the dirt and dust. Pressure washing does a great job of shifting the mud, but still leaves it a looking dirty.

      The control arm in the photo is now basically spotless after being wiped down in the middle of the suspension and brake swap. The same is true with the underside of the car - it's coated in mud, but has no rot at all. It's not magical though - the body has small spots of rust where scratches have gone through the paint. I'm going to ignore / maintain them for now as they're isolated and those sections will require more extensive repairs than just touching up (pulling dents etc).
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    22. Geriatric Member VDub2625's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 01:41 PM #92
      Mk2 G60s and Turbo Diesels had two options for intercoolers- without AC, the cooler sat in front of the radiator. With AC, the cooler sat to the left of the battery (above the trans) with all kinds of fancy specific ductwork.

      Gas and diesel Mk2s got different fuel lines but only becuase the ends were different- no pumps on a Mk2 diesel, it was fully mechanical suction. Also the engine end of the lines went to different places. But all the materials themselves are the same. it's a feedback fuel ssytem anyway so any extra fuel will be pumped back to the tank- high volume, low pressure.
      Last edited by VDub2625; 09-02-2010 at 01:44 PM.
      A2Resource
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      09-02-2010 01:44 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by jebglx View Post
      can't wait to see this at the end of the month.

      very cool
      this puppy is making it to h20i??
      unaffiliated

    24. 09-02-2010 02:18 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by greyvdub View Post
      this puppy is making it to h20i??

      yep

    25. 09-02-2010 02:31 PM #95
      hopefully with some kind of radio/music set up for the drive
      Shop Truck - Round 3: Back With a Vengeance?!

    26. 09-02-2010 02:49 PM #96
      what a tape player is no good?

      wasnt it in german or something odd?

    27. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 03:08 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by audi666 View Post
      what a tape player is no good?

      wasnt it in german or something odd?
      Yes, it only plays music from Greenland and Denmark. When you tune into HOT 100 FM, the lyrics to California Girls are in Danish.
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    28. Member MikkiJayne's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 03:45 PM #99
      All the direct-injecion diesels are fly-by-wire, even the non-turbo ones

      There was a TDI version in that body, so there will be a side mount intercooler setup for it which ought to bolt up. Its probably easier to fab a front mount setup than to acquire an OE side mount from Europe though

      The black fuel line is the feed, the blue is the return. All the injected gas VWs I've seen have equal size feed and return. Its only the carb and diesel models that have the smaller return. I think the gas ones probably need the larger return because of the high volume pump, which of course the carb and diesels don't have. The plastic lines are all the same though, from draw-through carbs and diesels to 7.5 bar CIS.

      A mk3 in-tank pump won't fit the diesel tank because it doesn't have the securing ring on the bottom that the pump clips to. Two options on that:
      Get a lift pump from a late model Euro Corrado 16V, which will fit in the hole and just hang there, and run a pump under the car from an early Corrado or mk2...
      Or, cut the ring out of the bottom a mk3 tank and plastic-weld / epoxy it in to the Polo tank so the mk3 pump fits (assuming the tank is the same height as the mk3 one)



      Oh, and the crank pulley will depend on what accessories you run. If you use the ABA / ABF setup then a shaved ABA pulley or factory ABF pulley will work, as the ABF timing gear is the same width as the AEB.
      Last edited by MikkiJayne; 09-02-2010 at 03:47 PM.
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

    29. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      09-02-2010 04:26 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by MikkiJayne View Post
      All the direct-injecion diesels are fly-by-wire, even the non-turbo ones

      There was a TDI version in that body, so there will be a side mount intercooler setup for it which ought to bolt up. Its probably easier to fab a front mount setup than to acquire an OE side mount from Europe though

      The black fuel line is the feed, the blue is the return. All the injected gas VWs I've seen have equal size feed and return. Its only the carb and diesel models that have the smaller return. I think the gas ones probably need the larger return because of the high volume pump, which of course the carb and diesels don't have. The plastic lines are all the same though, from draw-through carbs and diesels to 7.5 bar CIS.

      A mk3 in-tank pump won't fit the diesel tank because it doesn't have the securing ring on the bottom that the pump clips to. Two options on that:
      Get a lift pump from a late model Euro Corrado 16V, which will fit in the hole and just hang there, and run a pump under the car from an early Corrado or mk2...
      Or, cut the ring out of the bottom a mk3 tank and plastic-weld / epoxy it in to the Polo tank so the mk3 pump fits (assuming the tank is the same height as the mk3 one)



      Oh, and the crank pulley will depend on what accessories you run. If you use the ABA / ABF setup then a shaved ABA pulley or factory ABF pulley will work, as the ABF timing gear is the same width as the AEB.
      Awesome stuff as ususal, thank you. Talking this stuff out really helps me keep track of all the 'little' jobs that need to be done, along with all of the research, cross referencing and sourcing of parts that goes with it.

      From cross referencing, I saw that the pump securing ring is the same (I think I might have mentioned that before), as is the gasket, for all mk2/3/4 and a lot of other stuff too (some Porsche cars for example). IIRC the mk4 doesn't require the retaining points on the bottom of the tank, but then causes issues with the fuel level sender.

      I would like to find a bolt up solution, in fitting with the rest of the Lego stuff, and I think that both of your suggestions are great one. The mk2 external pump is a very easy option, but I hate that setup with a passion. Which leaves me with either a mk3 setup or a different option. I'm going to open up the current setup to see what's going on in there (might get lucky with the securing points..?) and then plan something from there. I do like the idea of the mk3 setup though.

      For the throttle cable, we just swapped over the drivebycable TB and the pedal does have a cable retaining post as well as the DBW wiring. There's also a hole in the firewall for the cable, although I have to remove some of the DBW mech to be able to have a clear shot at it. It seems like a shame not to use the DBW when I have the pedal and the TB, but neither the ECU nor the wiring match up, so i'm going to K.I.S.S. [keep it simple stupid] and use a cable.

      I've already got the european mk3 spring-adjusted alternator bracket bolted up, along with the VR6 waterpump pulley. I don't want to steal the crank pulley from the ABF engine that I have sitting here, which leaves me with shaving 5.x mm from the ABA pulley IIRC, or sourcing something different. If I run a aftermarket lightweight mk4 1.8T pulley like this gruvenparts one, I think it gives the wrong offset for the crank pulley too, so i'd be back to shaving one down (i think).

      Quote Originally Posted by greyvdub View Post
      this puppy is making it to h20i??
      That's the plan at least! Feel free to spread the word, as it's going to be either a joyous celebration or a shameful failure
      | œ Orchid Euro Importation œ |

      Currently driving or working on too many cars...
      | '93 Fox 16v - PVW | '99 Greenland Polo Diesel | '89 Rallye Golf | '83 Golf GTi RHD | '75 Swallowtail |
      | '82 Caddy 1.9D | '85 VW LT Car Transporter | Mk2 Jetta Limo | '90 Jetta 8V | '96 VW LT35D | '03 SpintLT35 | '02 GTI 337 | '03 GTI 20v |
      | '09 Aprilia RS125 | '81 Kawasaki AR80 | '59 NSU Quickly | '64 Honda Cub C65 + '65 C105 | Trek Madone 7.9 | Trek Crockett 9 |

    30. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      09-03-2010 10:20 PM #101
      | œ Orchid Euro Importation œ |

      Currently driving or working on too many cars...
      | '93 Fox 16v - PVW | '99 Greenland Polo Diesel | '89 Rallye Golf | '83 Golf GTi RHD | '75 Swallowtail |
      | '82 Caddy 1.9D | '85 VW LT Car Transporter | Mk2 Jetta Limo | '90 Jetta 8V | '96 VW LT35D | '03 SpintLT35 | '02 GTI 337 | '03 GTI 20v |
      | '09 Aprilia RS125 | '81 Kawasaki AR80 | '59 NSU Quickly | '64 Honda Cub C65 + '65 C105 | Trek Madone 7.9 | Trek Crockett 9 |

    31. Member Bias_Ply's Avatar
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      09-03-2010 10:56 PM #102
      hahahaha you need to get that car to an auto wash...
      The good news: I gave up on being one of the cool kids!

    32. Member ChiefWilNel's Avatar
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      09-03-2010 11:34 PM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by Bias_Ply View Post
      hahahaha you need to get that car to an auto wash...
      auto wash?

    33. Member Churras's Avatar
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      09-04-2010 12:15 AM #104
      What wheels are you planning to use ?


    34. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      09-04-2010 12:42 AM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by Churras View Post
      What wheels are you planning to use ?

      I have a set of Orbitals on my other Polo. I imported quite a lot of parts from Brazil and Argentina for my Fox (Voyage/Senda), and Orbitals were high on the list of bits that I wanted!


      (photo taken and linked from flatfourvw).


      I have several other sets of wheels sitting around that I could run, Borbet T (14x8), BBS RA (15x6), Passat G60 BBS (15x6), BBS RS (16x9 / 16x9.5) and whatever else I'm forgetting. I think i'll probably throw on the BBS RAs unless a friend [who is reading this thread, and has helped out wrenching on the the car] wants to come through with a very special set of wheels that I think would be perfect for the car, but i'll keep them a secret for now
      | œ Orchid Euro Importation œ |

      Currently driving or working on too many cars...
      | '93 Fox 16v - PVW | '99 Greenland Polo Diesel | '89 Rallye Golf | '83 Golf GTi RHD | '75 Swallowtail |
      | '82 Caddy 1.9D | '85 VW LT Car Transporter | Mk2 Jetta Limo | '90 Jetta 8V | '96 VW LT35D | '03 SpintLT35 | '02 GTI 337 | '03 GTI 20v |
      | '09 Aprilia RS125 | '81 Kawasaki AR80 | '59 NSU Quickly | '64 Honda Cub C65 + '65 C105 | Trek Madone 7.9 | Trek Crockett 9 |

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