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    Thread: Build Thread: The Greenland Polo

    1. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-21-2010 05:33 PM #51
      Thanks for all the comments everyone. I'm glad someone else finds it interesting!

      Quote Originally Posted by Grobo1082 View Post
      Question: Once it's done, how are you going to go about registering it? You're in the US? right? Just curious.
      Yes, the car and I are in the USA. I have already done all the paperwork before starting any work. The vehicle had a military registration previously, so it had USA paperwork already.

      Quote Originally Posted by Burnitwithfire View Post
      Good choice on the AEB. It's definitely the simpler 1.8t out there. Make sure you get a big bore transversal intake manifold to match the AEB head.
      I happened to have it sitting around without a home. I actually would have preferred a DBW model, as this car has the correct pedal cluster already, but it's a known good engine and I'm sourcing the conversion parts as cheaply as possible for now, as it's just a fun project that I can work on in some spare time without breaking the bank and spending too much time on it. I'm going to be using a small port AWP manifold for now, as I also have that sitting on a shelf ready to go.
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    2. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-21-2010 06:05 PM #52
      Got some more work done in preparation towards getting the car ready for the engine and transmission to be installed.

      I'm doing the work on my driveway currently, before moving it to my warehouse to get it up on the lift to finish everything off. With it being at home it's easier to spend 1/2 hour here or there working on it, and quickly double checking part numbers etc, so for right now it makes up for having to work with jack stands.

      This is the underside of the car as it was earlier today. Whoever removed the engine decided to just bend one of the pieces of aluminium heatshield to death, and of course everything's caked in mud:



      The mud flakes off easily (which sucks when working under it), but it also comes off easily with the pressure washer. I didn't do this today though, as I wanted to get to work underneath the car without soaking everything first.



      Here's what I removed; two heatshields, two exhaust brackets to gain enough room, and the linkage style shifter:



      The shifter was the main target. It had been cut off when the engine was removed:



      PN to cross reference.. but hold on:



      I don't need to bother. I had a junk mk3 Golf GTI cable style shifter sitting around so I compared them:



      Identical at the back two bolt mounts:



      The mk3 cable shifter is slightly shorter at the front, and does not have the two bolt holes. It is retained by the single threaded captive bolt at the top, which goes through the body.



      The Polo body of course doesn't have this hole. This is the two stock holes, with the solid metal behind it:



      So I have two options, neither of which are very difficult. I can:

      1. Drill a hole for the bolt to go through, and use the stock mk3 way of securing it.

      2. Make two notches on the mk3 shifter, and bolt it on using the stock Polo bolts in their normal location, with bigger washers to make sure it catches the mk3 shifter.

      [2.1. Weld a piece of metal onto the mk3 shifter, drill two holes, use the stock polo bolts and location.]

      This is very similar to a fairly common issue when swapping a mk3 cable shifter into a mk2 Golf/Jetta. There's a few solutions, with possibly the most common being to just use overlapping bolts to secure it. I haven't quite decided which way I'll chose. Whatever's easiest in the end, as they're all more than satisfactory. I have to bring home a good condition mk3 shifter box and cables before I can finish installing them, so i've got until Monday to decide which way I want to do it.



      So, I also had some time to work on the wiring a little bit. I've seperated off the headlight/turn signal/horn/ground etc wiring from the ECU wiring, just to make it a little less of a mess.

      In preparation for the engine bay wiring work, I sat down a few days ago with the mk3 Golf/Jetta USA spec wiring diagrams for the same year 1.9l TDI engine and wrote out all of the ECU Pin wiring:



      The reason I had to use a Golf/Jetta wiring diagram is that from what I can tell, no-one makes a workshop manual for the Seat Cordoba/VW Polo Classic/Variant. The common advice from europe is to use either a earlier Polo or a Skoda manual for the body, and the Golf/Jetta for the wiring. Well, I don't have a wiring diagram for a european 1.9l SDI engine so I used the closest I had.

      Well, it turns out that was a complete waste of time. Almost nothing matches at the ECU at all. Basically the main ground is the same (as is every other one ever), and one or two other wires which may be a coincidence. At least there's a lot less wires on my ECU connector than on the more complicated TDI engine. Here's my notes made while standing in the engine bay with a open ECU connector:



      So, to save my sanity I really need to find a engine/ECU wiring diagram for a 1999 Golf/Jetta mk3 1.9l SDI. I can then match up the wiring, delete what is not applicable to the new engine, and splice into things that I do want to use (gauge cluster, switched power etc).

      If anyone can find one as a PDF or image file please let me know!
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    3. Moderator vanaman's Avatar
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      08-21-2010 08:34 PM #53
      does Elsa have any of that info you need?

    4. Member reddfoxx's Avatar
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      08-21-2010 09:23 PM #54
      So the secret project surfaces. Very cool, almost unique. Nice write-up!
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      08-21-2010 09:52 PM #55
      Awesome!! I wanna see this progress! Keep it as stock as possible, match your other Polo

      So are you going 1.8T or keeping it diesel? I'm confused by you pinning out the ECU. Maybe TDI?

    6. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-22-2010 05:22 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by vanaman View Post
      does Elsa have any of that info you need?
      I never checked any european cars when I had access.. Would love to find out though. It is a 1999 VW Polo 6k2 (Polo Classic/Playa/Estate/Variant) with a 1.9 SDI diesel engine, if you or anyone has access.

      Quote Originally Posted by VDub2625 View Post
      So are you going 1.8T or keeping it diesel? I'm confused by you pinning out the ECU. Maybe TDI?
      Going 1.8T, a AEB engine from a 1999 VW Passat automatic. I have the manuals and wiring for every other car that relates to this, except the car itself (A2 Golf/Jetta, A3 Golf/Jetta, B5 Passat). If I ever do a motor swap in anything, it's a good excuse to buy the Bentley Publishers manuals
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    7. Member MikkiJayne's Avatar
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      08-22-2010 06:11 AM #57
      My Elsa says the Polo Variant is a 6V5, and I had to guess at the engine code, but I have plenty of data on it



      The PDF of the 'from 1998' engine wiring is here: http://www.corradov8.com/pics/wiring...ssic%20SDI.pdf

      If it still has the data sticker in the back then you'll be able to confirm the engine code. Email me if you need any more diagrams from that list ^ and I'll PDF them and send them over - mikkijayne (at) corradov8 (dot) com
      Last edited by MikkiJayne; 08-22-2010 at 06:14 AM.
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

    8. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-23-2010 11:39 AM #58
      Awesome, thank you! [I haven't had real ELSA access for years, but I should think about 'another' way soon.]

      You're right that it's a 6kV chassis - the part number for the actual body itself starts 6k2 which I think threw me off for a moment. I have a copy of the internal factory build sheet in my hands right now, and it did indeed come with a AEY engine. It was made on the 22nd of April, 1999 from what I can tell. I've also got about 40 pages of service history, and all the stickers that should have been under the trunk carpet etc that were removed and stored. Nicely I've got the SKD code card etc, all in the same pack.

      One rainy day in the future I'll google the names of the people that worked on it, included the person ('Miko') who stripped the car - maybe I can send them a email calling them a ******* for cutting the wiring harness like that The same person completed a checklist for things such as removing the license plate, draining all motor oil (ha!), and making sure that everything was removed from inside the car - they failed at this, as I found maps etc forgotten in the service manual storage slot.
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      08-23-2010 12:22 PM #59
      cool build, I think it has awesome potential...but wouldn't a torquey, smokey, diesel be more cooler?

    10. 08-23-2010 03:11 PM #60
      excited to finally be around to help out
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    11. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 01:23 AM #61
      Quick update, nothing too amazing.

      Got the cable shifter modified and installed, went in with no issues.



      The door with the missing door card also has a shredded vapor barrier:



      So I've got correct plastic for it, but need to decide on which glue/tape to use. In the meantime I stripped the old junk off to prep it:



      I also noticed that the old cabin filter was incredibly dirty (told you this wasn't exciting!):



      So instead of cross-referencing part numbers, I just held it up to various filters I had sitting around for similar year cars.

      Too long:



      Just right [mk4 Golf/Jetta I believe]:



      And, if anyone's reading this still.. here's a TCL challenge! I would like to use the original wiring to have a two way radio in the car, hopefully a CB radio setup. Can anyone identify the two connections for the antenna?

      Here's the interior connection:



      And the exterior:



      That's about all today. Tomorrow I hope to get the donor suspension parts, and test fit the motor mounts, weather and time permitting.



      Quote Originally Posted by msrothwell View Post
      cool build, I think it has awesome potential...but wouldn't a torquey, smokey, diesel be more cooler?
      I thought about it, but the wiring and swap to a TDI would be just as much work as the 1.8T and I've been wanting to do something with the AEB i've had sitting around for a while.
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    12. Moderator vanaman's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 08:08 AM #62
      thats a bnc connectoron the wireing. i believe you would need a bnc-pl259 for the normal cb style antenna connector. that bas is part of the antenna mount. not sure if you can find a cb to fit it. go to a large truck stop they usually have a good supply and variety of antennas and mounts.

      steve

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      08-26-2010 08:36 AM #63
      That exterior "connection" is the old antenna base with the piece that holds the antenna element snapped off. You might be able to find that piece by itself but it'd be easier to just replace the antenna base.
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    14. Moderator the brit's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 08:38 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by vanaman View Post
      thats a bnc connectoron the wireing. i believe you would need a bnc-pl259 for the normal cb style antenna connector. that bas is part of the antenna mount. not sure if you can find a cb to fit it. go to a large truck stop they usually have a good supply and variety of antennas and mounts.

      steve
      Nice, thanks..! Should have recognised that it was a BNC from my days of having fun with computer networking as a child Looks like radioshack has the adapters and that they're cheap: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103319

      I wish I was able to find a photo of the cars on Greenland to see what the antennas looked like, but assuming that I don't want to run a 102" antenna, I think a 51" or whatever the 1/8th wave size would be sounds like a reasonable use for the antenna hole.
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    15. Moderator vanaman's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 06:25 PM #65
      http://www.dxengineering.com/Products.asp?ID={39F55488-F985-4A3A-A58B-67A6EDA81F4F}&SecID=74&DeptID=25

      and

      http://www.rightchannelradios.com/cb...s-by-type-133/


      steve

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      08-26-2010 06:57 PM #66
      Got coilovers and engine mounts today, and worked on figuring out other things that I need to locate.

      I checked out the brake setup that the Polo came with, and they are the 9.4" vented rotors that mk2 Golf GTIs came with. These aren't really upgradable, and with the bad wheel bearings needing replacing I'm going to take the opportunity to upgrade the brakes. Mk3 Golf/Jetta 4 cylinders would be a mild upgrade to 10.1" brakes, or if I can locate them quickly then 11" brakes with a single piston caliper from a Corrado G60/early 90's Passat, or dual piston caliper from various early 90's Audis would be ideal too. Both 11" setups require the same bearing hub swap that the 10.1"s do, so I've got some phone calls to make or else a junk yard trip tomorrow morning.

      I also got the radiator and fan setup that I hoped would fit, but it doesn't. I suspect that it interchanges with some Polos, but not the setup that came with the non-turbo diesel as the mounts don't line up (or come anywhere close). I have a european market narrow width mk2 radiator sitting around that I suspect might line up, or else I'll fabricate a mount for the new radiator I got today.

      I had hoped to have a 10.1" setup sitting around so that I could get the front brakes and suspension sorted before the engine work this weekend, but I guess this is the fun of this project!
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      08-26-2010 07:29 PM #67
      This is one of those occasional parts-bin specials isn't it? Almost everything except the body is recycled from another model - its just working out which ones thats the key

      If it helps Etka shows two rads for the AEY - one 628x377mm for models with AC and PAS, and one 430x322 for manual steering and no AC. They are 6K0 part numbers and unique to the Polo Classic / Variant, but you find the same sizes in the mk3 (630x380). The diagram shows a peg at the bottom and a bolt with a rubber buffer at the top, which is the same style as the mk3 Polo, so you might need to get a little creative with the mounting
      Throw an Audi engineer down a hole with a ladder and he will fashion a shovel from it and tunnel his way out

      Quote Originally Posted by shwak23 View Post
      You could always call your insurance and say that some vandals tried to swap your car to rwd while you weren't looking.

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      08-26-2010 07:36 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by MikkiJayne View Post
      This is one of those occasional parts-bin specials isn't it? Almost everything except the body is recycled from another model - its just working out which ones thats the key

      If it helps Etka shows two rads for the AEY - one 628x377mm for models with AC and PAS, and one 430x322 for manual steering and no AC. They are 6K0 part numbers and unique to the Polo Classic / Variant, but you find the same sizes in the mk3 (630x380). The diagram shows a peg at the bottom and a bolt with a rubber buffer at the top, which is the same style as the mk3 Polo, so you might need to get a little creative with the mounting

      Yup, it's seriously like Lego. I do love the 'thrill of the hunt' bit about it though. I got a late model 630mm today, but it's not close to the brackets and those few MM in the height difference seem to be making a difference too - it's very tight, probably too much so.

      I suspect my support is for the narrow 430mm radiator, which we did not get at all in the USA. I have a very similarly sized one sitting in my warehouse IIRC, which should be from a European mk2 16v non-A/C no PS. It has the mk2 style fan housing, and I would rather run the bigger size if possible.
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    19. Geriatric Member VDub2625's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 07:48 PM #69
      I would consider a little spray cleaner and water into those doors also, get as much of that grit out as possible. Down into the frame rails front and rear too if you can.

      It'ws not just a parts bin special- ok, maybe a little more then others, but VW was really into the part-sharing for all models... The mk2 Golf/jetta shares a lot of parts with the mk1/B2 passat/Scirocco until 89, and then in 90 it shares a lot of parts with the Corrado/B3 passat/Mk3 These parts are all generic!

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      08-26-2010 10:11 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by the brit View Post
      I checked out the brake setup that the Polo came with, and they are the 9.4" vented rotors that mk2 Golf GTIs came with. These aren't really upgradable, and with the bad wheel bearings needing replacing I'm going to take the opportunity to upgrade the brakes. Mk3 Golf/Jetta 4 cylinders would be a mild upgrade to 10.1" brakes, or if I can locate them quickly then 11" brakes with a single piston caliper from a Corrado G60/early 90's Passat, or dual piston caliper from various early 90's Audis would be ideal too. Both 11" setups require the same bearing hub swap that the 10.1"s do, so I've got some phone calls to make or else a junk yard trip tomorrow morning.
      All 4x100 Passats are 10.1" except the Canadian syncro which got the G60 brakes (and engine). 5x100 passats are VR6 only and 11".

      Oh and butil strips for the vapor barrier are the best. You can pull off the vapor barrier and stick it back easily.
      Quote Originally Posted by SAV912 View Post
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      08-26-2010 10:30 PM #71
      Go for the 11" brake upgrade! Even in a car that small and light I would want more brakes with a 1.8T under the hood.

      Excellent project!
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    22. 08-26-2010 11:36 PM #72
      Interesting project, I'm looking forward to following along



      But more importantly;

      Quote Originally Posted by the brit View Post

      (stuff)

      Enjoy, Jamie.
      and

      Quote Originally Posted by the brit View Post
      I just brought in a 1982 Breadvan for my wife as well
      wait, huh?
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      This has to be my jam right now. If I had a few more subcontractors intothis type of **** the old lady would be done by now. Give me the kayak you know somebody is being a poseureur about.
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    23. 08-29-2010 01:31 AM #73
      following this now.

    24. Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 03:30 AM #74
      I think it would be fun to contact Greenland Contractors and see if they have any information on the car. I love the project and can't wait to see how it turns out!

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      08-29-2010 04:36 AM #75
      I know nothing about military logistics, but does anybody know why they would ship a non-US car with no engine to the a base in VA in the first place?

      P.S. this is way more interesting than I would have thought possible.

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