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    Thread: 8v Build~84 Rabbit Wolfsburg Drop top

    1. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-23-2010 03:10 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      Or to figure out how to jumper the relay, you can look at the relay, which BTW, has it's input/output circuitry printed on it, and jumper the corresponding pins at the socket. To take even more heat out of the fuse panel, you can put remote fuses on the heater fan, rear defroster and I run the radiator fan directly from the battery with an in-line fuse. I have had those on my car for at least 15years, if not more.
      So, do you still have a thermostat switch for the radiator fan, or is it a constant cooling off scenario?
      (Some people do that, you know...)
      I was thinking of getting a second waterproof fusebox for the engine compartment, just from a wrecker in good shape. That way, I could put some things in I would like, such as stereo components or lighting and things like that.

      I have been waiting and WAITING for the Bentley manual so I could get the proper order of the Cylinder head bolt removal, I do not want to damage (warp) that GTI head.
      It may still be over 2 weeks for it to show up... Anyone have the sequence? I just want to get the block in the hot bath!
      I searched Vortex yesterday, the only result that had the order was for a V20.
      Google didn't help much.
      I will be filming the removal of the GTI engine, and posting the Video, and/or pics.
      Should be fun! It is in a hard to access place surrounded by aging vehicles, (one of which holds the original legendary bombproof Yamaha SHO V6). This engine is one of 15,000 ever made, and was a $10,000 OPTION on a ford Taurus.

      Beautiful. Yes, the SHO is for sale, will be on Ebay in the next couple of weeks.
      There will be a towing scenario, followed by a forklift operation and ripping apart of the GTI.
      WARNING! This may get ugly....
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 08-31-2010 at 03:23 AM.

    2. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-23-2010 09:57 AM #52
      The bolt removal should be the same as the 20V. And yes, I have still have the thermoswitch in the rad to control the fan.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    3. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 05:11 AM #53
      Okay here comes the GTI from donor headquarters... Gonna be a rough ride, but no problem for a modified dodge to do the pulling ~ 700 horses 850 ft/lb or something crazy like that!
      Here is a video of this crazy truck and the treasure from below...

      Here is the other side

      So I started the teardown, bolt by bolt. Here is the proper sequence to install your cylinder head bolts.
      The cylinder head bolt removal sequence goes in reverse, to keep your head from warping.

      Here is the fuel system taken out, it is in pretty rough shape, but is repairable! The fuel lines can RIP.
      There are lots of banjo bolts and the box is a candidate for some modification.

      Here is a weird thing I didn't know was at the back of the air sensor/fuel distributor. I wonder what it is? I may need a new one.
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 12-12-2010 at 02:32 AM.

    4. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 06:02 AM #54
      Okay, just to show everyone what a big difference the throttle body secondary valve size is, here are some comparison photos. The shiny one looks like the path of least resistance, does it not?
      It looks like the primary valve is the same for both, so it only provides more air when your foot is heavy.

      Then the boot side, notice how much less metal there is to interfere with a big inhale.
      Not to mention it is way more aerodynamic.

      Bolt on HP.
      I am going right back in the morning to finish the job, strip the block bare, and get it into the hot bath.
      Yeah.
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 08-30-2010 at 02:48 AM.

    5. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 09:48 AM #55
      That valve is the frequency valve that is used by the Lambda controller to control the AFR.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    6. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-26-2010 12:20 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      That valve is the frequency valve that is used by the Lambda controller to control the AFR.
      I was wondering where the Frequency valve was hiding.
      This part is considered unobtainium, as far as I know.
      I haven't come across a single one (new) in all my searching.
      Would someone please show me the way?
      Where do you get this part?

    7. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-27-2010 04:44 AM #57
      The sun beat down on this black GTI for the teardown. Lots of wind. HOT.
      Perfect day to investigate the inner beauty of a 1983 GTI.
      248,000 Kilometers is 154,000 Miles, in case you were wondering.
      After paying close attention and taking LOTS of pictures.
      I unplugged the wiring harness.
      I will be using it to recreate new wiring to some of the major components.
      Lots of grounds on this engine go to a bolt that holds on a coolant flange on the right side of the cylinder head.
      The timing cover had to be removed, and tension released.
      The valve cover had to be unbolted to remove the timing cover.
      The cylinder head opened up to reveal a glistening marvel of engineering.
      Craftsmanship is a word that comes to mind.
      Here is a shot after vacuum, coolant, fuel and electrical were removed.

      Ahhhhh.....
      Here is a better view of what is inside.


      Now the head is about to come off.
      I remove two spring clamps that hold the exhaust manifold to the downpipe.
      I want to remove the intake and exhaust when the head is off, the bolts are pretty crusty.
      I remove the head bolts in the opposite order of installing them. They were torqued on well.
      I only get them to move slightly at first, in order.
      Then a little bit more of a turn, in order for all 10.
      Once more, in sequence for all bolts, and they come out.
      The head is off!
      Oh wait there is still one in there ... wait a sec... The head is off!
      No warp whatsoever. Nice and flat. Beautiful.
      Not only is the head off and safe, the bore is at 81, original to the day it was made.
      I don't think anyone has ever been in here since day 1.


      There is no wear, on any of them. The original crosshatch can be seen, and there are no ridges.
      You can see how high the piston travels, but it has not carved away the walls at all. That is just oil.
      It is in remarkably good shape.
      Oh I know it looks ugly, but wait till you see it come out of the hot bath!
      This is the block and transmission without the head.

      Now that I have the head out I can be more careful about removing the manifolds.
      As you can see here the exhaust is REALLY encrusted in decay.
      On the plus side, those valves measure 40 and 33, respectively. Nice.
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 08-30-2010 at 02:57 AM.

    8. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-27-2010 05:39 AM #58
      For the intake manifold, which was less severe, I gently tapped the allan key into the bolt with a hammer, to re-establish its geometry. Once I had it seating to the bottom, I could apply the pressure it required to unbolt it without stripping something.

      The rusted out exhaust manifold bolts are a completely different story.
      They are going to have to be dealt with.

    9. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-27-2010 03:00 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by WaterWheels View Post
      I can get you a part number or two for a 90amp but the sticker has to be still on the alternator and readable too.
      Do you have a part number for the biggest alternator that will bolt on the GTI?
      It would be appreciated. I would like to find one new.
      Bosch has a notice about charging problems in wet weather for all alternators that fit the car.
      VW sells a shroud for the belt that prevents water splashing on it, which was the problem.
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 08-28-2010 at 04:25 AM.

    10. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-28-2010 04:33 AM #60
      The intake manifold came off without incident, even though one bolt was close to being stripped.
      Imagine if I had tried to take off these bolts with the head still mounted.
      Not in this state of decay. No way.

      The exhaust manifold bolts are seriously rotten, and the metal is rusted right over the end.
      This is surgery, the goal is to get the head, block and tranny out safe.
      I will have to cut the ends off clean and vise-grip the bolts in order to remove them.
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 08-28-2010 at 04:36 AM.

    11. 08-28-2010 05:18 PM #61
      Seems you have two primary options for your over all project you need to choose.
      1) get the 1.8 swapped, and keep it mostly stock except for things that are worn out and need replacing. Leave everything else stock. Get everything in good working order, then start making upgrade changes and learn what works and whats needed. This takes more time, but less money up front, and you get the point of knowing what your doing and less wasted time and money.

      2) Build the engine they way you want it now then install, work out the issues in the engine and the rest of the car. This option requires you know now what your doing or someone working every step of the way with you that does know. And costs a lot of time and $ now. Some of these never finish, and are a great source for parts for you to buy.

      Tips: It always takes longer to finish, you need more parts than expected and it costs way more than you think. Expect it and plan for it. Be realistic with your power goals, and expect that you'll always want more power than you have.

      Cheers
      ny_fam

    12. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 01:16 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by ny_fam View Post
      Build the engine they way you want it now then install, work out the issues in the engine and the rest of the car. This option requires you know now what your doing or someone working every step of the way with you that does know.
      Cheers
      ny_fam
      Cheers!
      This is honestly the only car I have ever touched, mechanically speaking. I have never even changed oil on a car.
      A few years ago I didn't even know you had to put oil in a car. Yeah. That's right.

      A car roaring to life is a magic I stood in awe of. I often contemplate just how did the first one get invented? Who could have figured out how to harness an explosion? Amazing!

      I have finally caught an interest in the dirty grimy clickety clack that powers a car. No longer will I drive a car, unsure as to exactly what is going on down there in the engine bay.
      I have been reading. A lot!
      Armed with a Bentley manual, there is no telling what I might do.
      I have a pretty good understanding of the fuel system, and I am more than capable with electricity.
      Volkswagen must mean addictive, because I need more.
      I have driven many amazing cars, but this is the only one I ever wanted to work on.
      Maybe it is because it is so accessible.
      Thanks to a community interested enough to post a how to on transmission rebuilding, or how to get more out of a little car, I have been able to understand the big picture.
      Thanks to the people who look at an old beat up car and say, "It's still good."
      I have done my research, and as I pull the GTI apart, I know what almost everything does.
      When the instructions arrive, I will be unstoppable.
      It sure does help to have good people in my corner to show up with a special flywheel device and impact wrench when I am stumped about how to remove the crankshaft pulley.
      Good people who just want to hear the tires squeal! HOOO HA!
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 09-04-2010 at 02:30 AM.

    13. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 01:24 AM #63
      So the engine mounts came out without incident, and the only real trouble was the driver side drive axle. There was one bolt underneath (8mm 12 point) that was barely accessible. I had to get the bit in as far as I could, then use a small wrench to remove it. The block, transmission and differential are free at last.


      I wasn't sure if I would have to get a new flywheel or not, but the teeth on this one are in great shape.
      I will only know as it comes apart, but I have a good feeling about this. If it is in good shape, I will balance it and use it again.


      So far the only issues have been a stripped flywheel bolt, not a problem because I have brand new German bolts.
      I even bought a few extra just in case.
      Also, the bottom cover plate had one bolt still holding on due to it having been stripped before.
      It is a circle, not a hexagon. Not a problem, an extraction bit will pull it out.
      I have been able to use the tools I use to fix my woodworking machinery, it is all metric.

      I just realized this is post #69 for me. Giggity!
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 08-29-2010 at 04:32 PM.

    14. Member TheMajic86GTI's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 12:27 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbitissimo View Post
      Yoooooo....Do urself a favor and invest in some jack stands(since ur working on the dirt put plywood under them too while ur at it so they dont sink). Or atleast put cement blocks under the car or something to prevent the car from falling on ur face!!!! Ive seen those hydraulic jacks fail many of times. Had one fall on a friends head in front of me, dont worry he's ok he has a hard head but he got extremely lucky...

    15. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-29-2010 04:22 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by TheMajic86GTI View Post
      Yoooooo....Do urself a favor and invest in some jack stands(since ur working on the dirt put plywood under them too while ur at it so they dont sink). Or atleast put cement blocks under the car or something to prevent the car from falling on ur face!!!! Ive seen those hydraulic jacks fail many of times. Had one fall on a friends head in front of me, dont worry he's ok he has a hard head but he got extremely lucky...
      Not to worry; I may have been a bit careless about removing this powertrain, but when ALL the parts arrive, I will be going indoors where there are jack stands, and just about anything you can imagine.
      Those lifts ARE dangerous! A little twist releases the pressure.
      So easy to accidentally drop everything, just by touching it the wrong way.
      I wasn't worried about the oil pan, a new one is coming.

      There is a big machine that flattens blocks here! An old distributor tester!
      When my Rabbit goes in, it will be done safely, and carefully.
      I am also going to strip all motor mounts, micro switch mount, and belt covers and anything else attached to the block and put them in the hot bath, then repaint them.
      I want to get any aluminum anodized, but I will see about that. Maybe, maybe not.
      There are a couple of guys that have an anodizing setup somewhere around here.
      Apparently, the color is derived from frequency!
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 08-30-2010 at 03:17 AM.

    16. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      08-31-2010 02:58 AM #66
      A very crucial NOS part has arrived today, and what a relief! I was cheap with the shipping and it took a long time. I thought maybe it wasn't coming, it almost seemed like it was too good to be true.
      But here it is!


      The engine will be stripped on the outside, and the crankshaft is coming out. More photos very soon. Hot dip coming up!
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 09-03-2010 at 05:52 AM.

    17. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      09-03-2010 03:41 AM #67
      So everything has to be removed from the block in order to clean it properly.
      Here are the likely suspects.

      A few more in the lineup...


      I am not sure if a flywheel can be resurfaced, it has a bit of light rust on the inside.
      The clutch had been replaced at some point, but the PO used a cheesy aftermarket jobby, not Sachs as Jah had intended. The pressure plate was in terrible shape, but newish.
      The flywheel is German.

      Now, with the oil pan removed, we can see the heart of the engine.

      It is recommended to use a new oil pump when rebuilding an engine, but I think I will reuse this one.
      The gears are mint, and there is a way to remove the pickup tube, and clean the filter.
      I think that would be the only issue, and as this is mechanically driven, nothing is wrong with it.
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 09-03-2010 at 03:45 AM.

    18. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      09-03-2010 04:12 AM #68
      So with the oil pump removed, the pistons and connecting rods must be marked per cylinder.
      If they are to be re-used, they must go back from whence they came.
      If the block must be bored, only the connecting rods could be re-used.


      So the connecting rod nuts are removed, the rod caps carefully removed, bit by bit.
      Place them in a plastic tub with a lid to keep them together, but separate them from each other.
      It just helps to avoid damage to parts which may be re used.
      The protruding bolt is covered in order to protect the journal on the crankshaft.
      Wouldn't want to scratch that up!
      Then simply push the piston & rod away from the crank and out. Same for the other 3.

      The connecting rods were numbered, suggesting they have been balanced.
      This is yet to be confirmed.

      So with all of the connecting rods and pistons removed, the main caps must be removed.
      They were numbered by the factory, no need to worry there.
      The thrust washers were a little tricky, there were 4, VERY tight fit... Wiggle them out.


      The crankshaft is free!
      Its journals will be carefully measured, and as you can see by the drilled weights, it has already been balanced. Probably not the best way to balance a crankshaft.
      Seems like it would cause some drag, maybe I'm wrong.


      So now the tricky part, the last of the bearings are for the intermediate shaft.
      Problem is, they are not two pieces that come apart, but one solid ring.
      Cannot leave them in for the bath...
      This tool will push them out. The pink dot indicates the bearing being removed.


      So now the block is bare naked, and will have to be scrubbed clean before the bath.
      Contaminants (oil, sand, grease) must be removed as much as possible for best results.
      Here is a better look at the numbers embossed on the block.


      The GTI block, stripped naked, is getting ready for a bath.
      When it comes out, it will be ready for paint, then a fresh rebuild.

      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 01-24-2011 at 02:45 AM.

    19. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      09-03-2010 04:37 AM #69
      The exhaust manifold was holding on with a vengeance.
      It did not want to let go, so one of the bolts had to be cut off.
      Part of the manifold had to be cut out with it.
      The head is now free, and is dead flat.
      Here is a peek inside Ze German cylinder head.


      The gunk is just carbon buildup, or grease, but the inner shape is visible.
      This head will hopefully turn into a gleaming, polished beauty filled with titanium and silicon-bronze.
      New valves.... Mmmmmmm....

      Stay tuned; More to come!.....
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 09-08-2010 at 03:07 AM.

    20. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      09-08-2010 02:42 AM #70
      So today I pulled apart the dash on the GTI.
      The interior is burgundy, with red trim.
      The trim pieces all came out safely, and are in great shape!
      The wiring harness is formidable, and there are many differences between the GTI and the Rabbit Convertible.
      Many of the plugs are different.
      The VDO gauge main panel has far fewer resistors than the Convertible.

      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 03-05-2011 at 05:31 AM.

    21. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      09-08-2010 02:55 AM #71
      I just had to check the progress of the engine block, see if some of the grime has come off.
      Wow! The results are truly phenomenal!
      A bit of a light wire brush on the outside to remove any last trace of rust, and this block will be going back into the bath, where it will sit for just a little longer.
      Then, a degreasing formula, then on to primer!

      The oil pan was put in as well, it was very solid, but crusty.
      It did not look at all salvageable, in very rough shape, but the bath revealed a very pristine workable component!
      Baked-in oil contaminants were loosened to the point they could be lightly wiped away!


      Parts list is being compiled, micrometer measurements will tell the tale.
      Looks good so far....
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 09-08-2010 at 03:00 AM.

    22. Member
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      09-08-2010 11:28 AM #72
      For more parts leads, your 1984 Rabbit looks to be identical under the hood to my 1987 Scirocco. Same intake manifold and solid lifter head exactly. You could just order an alternator for a Scirocco with air conditioning -90A. Idle speed is controlled by that solenoid bolted to the strut tower and relay #1, which I have had to replace. Have you looked inside the fuel tank? Certainly the strainer inside must be replaced. My tank even had rust from the half full point up.

      On your transmission can you wobble either drive flange? The driver side one is under heavy side loading. Bad motor mountings will do evil stuff to the axles and drive flanges. I have had to replace the output seals and drive flanges. Does either one have 100mm CV joints?

      I too was wondering about checking the oil pump since mine has even more miles on it than your Rabbit. Adjusting the valves, after far too many miles, reduced oil burning.

      1984 Audi 4000 1.8L is same setup as a 1989 Fox. The intake manifolds do look different than what have. Audi one is closer to a cylinder. Aux air regulator is on other end below throttle. CSV sticks out at odd angle , fine for a Fox, but on Rabbit or Scirocco is pointed at firewall. Here is a link about modifying the manifold to put the CSV at the far end: http://www.scirocco.org/tech/mk2/5000tb/5000tb.html

      I just happen to have a manifold for a 1984 Audi 4000S 1.8L (049133223AA 1H WWO) sitting in my garage from a used head I bought. On the CSV end is a 29mm boss with a 17mm plugged hole in it. Interested in it? Have to ship from U.S.

    23. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      09-08-2010 01:05 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
      Have you looked inside the fuel tank? Certainly the strainer inside must be replaced. My tank even had rust from the half full point up.
      I have not looked inside yet, I have had weird fuel issues since I started the car.
      Probably some water in there somewhere.
      I did, however, purchase a new in tank pump with screen, and a new main pump.
      Depending on some financial factors, I may purchase new fuel lines all the way back.
      Depends on how extensive the engine parts become.
      The tank will be pulled out and cleaned, then re installed.
      Not sure how to do it other than pulling it out of the car.
      Anyone think that is excessive? Have you seen my gray fuel?

      Quote Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
      On your transmission can you wobble either drive flange? The driver side one is under heavy side loading. Bad motor mountings will do evil stuff to the axles and drive flanges. I have had to replace the output seals and drive flanges. Does either one have 100mm CV joints?
      Do you mean the differential that is mounted to the transmission, where the drive axles mount?
      I could not believe the driver side axle was as short as it is. The GTI diff seems to be solid.
      The diff in the convertible will be inspected when it comes out, I suspect the GTI is in better shape.
      (Based on mileage).
      I will be installing a Wavetrac Differential a couple of months later, when the funding is there.
      Not sure if it will come with the output seals and drive flanges.

      Quote Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
      I just happen to have a manifold for a 1984 Audi 4000S 1.8L (049133223AA 1H WWO) sitting in my garage from a used head I bought. On the CSV end is a 29mm boss with a 17mm plugged hole in it. Interested in it? Have to ship from U.S.
      After careful inspection of the intake manifold from the GTI, I have decided to port the runners and plenum myself. I kept trying to figure out how people would port the runners after they curve.
      It turns out only about 5 or 6 inches need be ported on the runners, then it opens up inside, where it enters the plenum. I am going to try to do it, and if I screw it up then I will buy one.
      I would love to see some pics of the one you have.
      It is just like the Fox manifold from the link you posted? Is it shiny? Is it cracked? More info!
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 09-08-2010 at 01:24 PM.

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      09-08-2010 05:50 PM #74
      Here is what Audi 4000S manifold looks installed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/2827182764/
      Mine is a bit corroded on outside and usual carbon on inside. It just needs cleaning. Where would a stock intake manifold crack?
      I would first have to replace the entire exhaust from the head to the muffler before it makes sense to install it on my car. Thanks for the pictures by the way.

    25. Member Rabbitissimo's Avatar
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      09-09-2010 02:57 AM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
      Where would a stock intake manifold crack?
      Usually on the underside above the exhaust manifold, where heat and stress take their toll.
      Quite often near a bolt, allowing unmetered air into the system, causing CIS problems.
      There are a few people on this site this has happened to.
      Header manufacturers discourage header wrap, it makes it too hot.
      The heat of the exhaust manifold radiates in the engine bay, and the intake manifold ( made of aluminum) is directly above it.
      I might take an old amplifier carcass to make a heatsink, in between.
      They are made of aluminum, and have cooling sinks on them, and would still allow air movement.
      I wonder if it would help or hinder...

      Quote Originally Posted by MacGruber View Post
      Thanks for the pictures by the way.
      I know I'm having fun!
      I wish this info was here to see when I was looking around for how to build my car up.
      I hope what I am doing will help the next VW freak!
      Last edited by Rabbitissimo; 09-09-2010 at 03:03 AM.

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