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    Thread: The Greatest Cheats in NASCAR History

    1. Member SVT2888's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 08:42 AM #1
      Quote Originally Posted by Popular Mechanics
      Cheating? In NASCAR? Really? Next you're going to tell us professional wrestling isn't real, or that Al Gore really didn't invent the Inter-web.
      This is a VERY good read. You don't need to be a Nascar fan to enjoy it.



      *fully expects thread to plummet due to too much reading*

    2. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 08:53 AM #2
      Everyone just remember that the best tricks of the trade are the ones we might never read about.

    3. Forum Sponsor TyrolSport's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 08:54 AM #3
      What about Yunick's 7/8 scale Chevy?

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      09-01-2010 08:54 AM #4
      Good read. Rules were made to be broken.
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      09-01-2010 08:54 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike@TyrolSport View Post
      What about Yunick's 7/8 scale Chevy?

    6. Get Off My Lawn!!! vwlarry's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 08:56 AM #6
      Yunick has his rivals, but I'd never discount "Mr. Unfair Advantage" hisself, Roger Penske, for excellence in chicanery.


    7. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 09:08 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by deucestudios View Post
      Good read. Rules were made to be broken.
      And burned, buried, forgotten, stretched, fit into, skirted, denied, argued, and ignored.

      The templates Nascar uses to check the cars have probably encouraged the stretching of the interpretation or rules- they keep having to add body templates to use on each aspect of the car to thwart builders who will make the car match the template- where the template is placed and nowhere else.

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      09-01-2010 09:10 AM #8
      Came here expecting Smokey. Did not disappoint "If it ain't in the rule book, it ain't cheating"

    9. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 09:11 AM #9
      sillyness. if they want to keep it level, they should provide identical cars.
      or, here's a novel idea, let teams do whatever they want and PUT THEM ON A ROADCOURSE WHERE IT WON'T MATTER. maybe mandate proper safety stuff.
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    10. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 09:12 AM #10
      In 1952, Tim Flock, who used to race with his pet monkey, Jocko Flocko, in the cockpit, was disqualified from a NASCAR modified race because his roll bars were made from painted wood.
      This sounds like a joke. I'd watch NASCAR if it were still that interesting!
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    11. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 09:14 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      sillyness. if they want to keep it level, they should provide identical cars.
      or, here's a novel idea, let teams do whatever they want and PUT THEM ON A ROADCOURSE WHERE IT WON'T MATTER. maybe mandate proper safety stuff.
      Everything matters- that's why there isn't anything close to a professional "run whacha brung" race series.

      Every series has rules and regulations.

    12. Member trb02jtta's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 09:17 AM #12
      wooden rollbars.

    13. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 09:27 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      sillyness. if they want to keep it level, they should provide identical cars.
      or, here's a novel idea, let teams do whatever they want and PUT THEM ON A ROADCOURSE WHERE IT WON'T MATTER. maybe mandate proper safety stuff.
      You can still cheat with identical cars (which they pretty much have now). And if you think adding right turns levels the playing field, you're bonkers. Road racing is full of cheating. Rallying is SO full of cheating.

      NASCAR has the cheating reputation because it has its roots in southern good ol' boys and moonshiners and it's always been a "wink and a nod" sort of thing that's central to the mystique of the sport. Most other forms of racing take a straight-laced approach, treating it like doping in athletics (when Toyota bypassed their turbo inlet restrictor in their '95 WRC car they didn't get a fine or a demerit, they got banned for an entire year).
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      09-01-2010 09:27 AM #14
      I personally like the melting restrictor plates made from wax, another Smokey trick I believe.

    15. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 09:30 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by AdrockMK2 View Post
      I personally like the melting restrictor plates made from wax, another Smokey trick I believe.
      I know that tale, not sure who it was. The car had to be equipped with a certain sized restrictor plate- they didn't say what it had to be made out of.

      I believe that is when nascar began issuing and mounting the plates themselves just prior to the car's lockdown before the race.

    16. Member Tokyosmash's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 10:00 AM #16
      Good read

      And folks, there are teams using loop holes every day, it is what makes racing great, like the roof over roof on the 935

    17. Member Voodoo.T's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 10:05 AM #17
      Need to find a similar article for all of Ferrari's F1 cheats over the last 15 years...
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    18. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 10:10 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by TheGreenspanator View Post
      Came here expecting Smokey. Did not disappoint "If it ain't in the rule book, it ain't cheating"
      ditto. the man was a read-between-the-lines king! i used to refer to my 944 as a "7/8 scale car" as an homage to Smokey Yunick.

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    19. 09-01-2010 10:11 AM #19
      Apparently, in his motel room, Robbins had knocked the NASCAR-mandated restrictors out of his carburetor. After the race, NASCAR tried to give him the Rookie of the Race award, but Robbins wouldn't accept it, admitting he was illegal because he "just wanted to see what it was like to run up front for once."
      Awesome!

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      09-01-2010 10:11 AM #20
      They all look for little advantages where they can. To me, the only thing between a competitor and cheater is that cheaters get caught.

      Something tells me the Woods Bros. have some tricks of the trade. They've been around for such a long time.

    21. Member Strictly Gravy's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 10:17 AM #21
      Awesome read. Forwarded onto a few friends.

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      09-01-2010 10:19 AM #22
      I always thought that getting kicked out of NASCAR for cheating would be publicity that money couldn't buy.
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      09-01-2010 10:19 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by AKADriver View Post
      You can still cheat with identical cars (which they pretty much have now).
      i mean like the tdi cup where they don't even get to touch their own cars except on the track.
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      09-01-2010 10:22 AM #24
      Smokey Yunick, owner of Daytona's Best Damn Garage in Town, was a perpetual thorn in the side of NASCAR in general, and Bill France in particular. The self-taught engineer was a genius at aerodynamics, and his tricks to make a car's body slip through the air were far ahead of his time. But Yunick was perhaps best known for interpreting what the rule book said—or, perhaps, didn't say. For example: In 1968, he said NASCAR specified how big a fuel tank could be, but he noticed no one said how big the fuel line could be. Instead of a half-inch fuel line, Yunick created a two-inch fuel line that was 11 feet long, and held five gallons of gas.

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      09-01-2010 10:40 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Tokyosmash View Post
      Good read

      And folks, there are teams using loop holes every day, it is what makes racing great, like the roof over roof on the 935
      I was just going to mention the 935. I know it isn't NASCAR, but there is a great read about it in the book Porsche Legends. The 935 was the product of some very creative interpretation of racing rules.
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    26. Member konigwheels's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 10:45 AM #26
      I'm surprised there was no mention of the Banana car, though that may be the 7/8th car everyone here is talking about...





      The whole decklid was a spoiler!

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      09-01-2010 10:53 AM #27
      This makes me think of the "spec miata" class. My brother used to work for a local engine builder that would get quite a few engines for that class. They did all sorts of illegal stuff to them. I guess if you lack talent that's your only option though.

      Danica's dad used to put in "special fuel" when she go karted right before the start of the race, the marshalls would have to stop and check it and then disqualify her. A lot of cheating goes on in racing....
      Last edited by dmonday; 09-01-2010 at 10:57 AM.

    28. Member Frostybunny's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 11:00 AM #28
      Here are some more cheating stories

      http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=162615

    29. Member Tornado2dr's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 11:11 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by dmonday View Post
      They did all sorts of illegal stuff to them. I guess if you lack talent that's your only option though.
      That is such a silly observation. Plenty of people with and without driving skills do something here and there to gain an edge.

      A while ago the late model class I ran with only measured height and weight before the race. So, what did we do? Everyone pushing the car under the roller wheel gave a little tug upwards on their side to make sure it bumped to legal or greater height. Same thing with the weight- they would only allow a certain percentage of left-side weight and occasionally it was a bitch to acheive- so maybe I would put a foot and some pressure on the right side scale...

      It's just part of participating, in many ways. If you want to be competetive with people that have a lot of backing when you don't- you do what you need to do!

    30. 09-01-2010 11:12 AM #30
      I find cheating to be one of the most interesting parts of racing... takes some of the seriousness out of it all especially with some of these awkward solutions
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    31. Member Amsterdam087's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 11:20 AM #31
      this thread and the link in the original post just made my day, thanks for posting this up OP. good stuff.

    32. 09-01-2010 11:22 AM #32
      Aside from racing, Yunick's innovations include variable ratio power steering, the extended tip spark plug, reverse flow cooling systems, a high efficiency vapor carburetor, a high-efficiency adiabatic engine, various engine testing devices, and a safety wall for racetracks, made of discarded tires, which NASCAR's France had refused to consider. He was granted twelve patents. He also experimented with synthetic oil and alternative energy sources such as hydrogen, natural gas, windmills, solar panels.

      Yunick also built a 1968 Camaro for Trans-Am racing. Although Yunick set several speed and endurance records with the car at Bonneville Speedway, with both a 302 cubic inch (~4942 cubic centimeter) and a 396 cubic inch (~6489 cubic centimeter) engine, it never won a race while Yunick owned it. It was later sold to Don Yenko, who did win several races. In typical Yunick fashion, the car, although superficially a stock Camaro, had acid-dipped body panels and thinner window glass to reduce weight, the front end of the body tilted downwards and the windshield laid back for aerodynamics, all four fenders widened, the front subframe Z'ed and the floorpan moved up to lower the car, and many other detailed modifications. The drip rails were even brought closer to the body for a tiny aerodynamic improvement. A connector to the engine oil system was extended into the car's interior, to allow the driver to add oil from a pressurized hose during pit stops. In order to allow the driver enough freedom of movement, the shoulder harness was modified to include a cable-ratchet mechanism from a military helicopter. In 1993, Vic Edelbrock, Jr. purchased and restored the car
      Here's a short biography of Smokey Yunick, including pictures of his radical yet innovative Indy cars.
      http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/h...ute/index.html

    33. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 11:30 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by konigwheels View Post
      I'm surprised there was no mention of the Banana car, though that may be the 7/8th car everyone here is talking about...
      I love it. But no, the 7/8th scale car was a Chevelle...and not actually 7/8th scale, it just appears so because of the altered proportions, especially how big the wheels look in the altered wheelwells.

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    34. Banned TheGreenspanator's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 11:41 AM #34
      Re: "7/8 scale" '66

      "Perhaps his most famous exploit was his #13 1966 Chevrolet Chevelle, driven by Curtis Turner. The car was so much faster than the competition during testing that they were certain that cheating was involved; some sort of aerodynamic enhancement was strongly suspected, but the car's profile seemed to be entirely stock, as the rules required. It was eventually discovered that Yunick had lowered and modified the roof and windows and raised the floor (to lower the body) of the production car. Since then, NASCAR required each race car's roof, hood, and trunk to fit templates representing the production car's exact profile."



      Also that is misinformation about the Camaro that Edelbrock bought; his is a re-body, not a resto.
      Last edited by TheGreenspanator; 09-01-2010 at 11:44 AM. Reason: fell asleep while posting

    35. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      09-01-2010 11:51 AM #35
      It did have aero enhancements, just not ones that radically changed the profile. The bumper was extended vertically downward, the dropped floor acted as a belly pan, and the roof edge over the rear window was slightly extended to act as a vortex interruptor.
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