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    Thread: new intake manifold project:16v itbs turbo intake manifold

    1. Member
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      09-09-2010 07:24 AM #1
      so,
      I've been kicking this idea around for a year or so, lurking, looking for a deal; got the 42mm plate itbs for $43 shipped, the manifold for $40 shipped.
      I have access to a full machine shop,
      a buddy to design the itb to head flange adapter,
      another who is an increadable machinist with a full cnc shop in his garage I'm gunna get to machine the adapters.

      the manifold is a toyota corolla piece

      the head to itb flange and the itb to manifold flange will be made out of the oe casting.

      the air shroud rial will be made into the vacuum source. it will also have an idle stabilizer. the second injector bank will be used for water injection.


      Last edited by weeblebiker; 10-18-2010 at 07:53 PM.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    2. Member Amsterdam087's Avatar
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      09-09-2010 11:37 AM #2
      another awesome project of yours!
      good stuff man,

    3. Member nick526's Avatar
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      78 Rabbit ABF, 96 GTI VR6, 89 BMW 325i, 91 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
      09-09-2010 01:50 PM #3
      Woah, looks pretty complex.

      What are the characteristics of a turbo charged ITB engine? I'd imagine the turbo would spool rather quickly

    4. Member v-dubin@120's Avatar
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      09-09-2010 02:46 PM #4
      guess im not the only one who thought of using a corrola manifold. My design is a bit different though.


    5. Senior Member MFZERO's Avatar
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      09-09-2010 03:57 PM #5
      that's pretty neat

    6. Member
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      09-09-2010 04:17 PM #6
      my premis is that with a traditional runner plenum throttle, the whole manifold is under vacuum at idle/part throttle which must fill before the pressure at the intake valves can increase. the plan is to put the throttle plates as close to the intake valves as possible which will keep the rest of the intake system at atmophere/boost. also the need for the plenum is reduced with the corolla intake design.

      should spool quicker.
      should be able to keep up with a na v8 performance wise.
      should be able to slaughter in the autocross performance band of things.
      I plan on a before and after dyno with the manifold being the only change
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    7. Member
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      09-09-2010 09:09 PM #7
      so a few things I need to take care of


      I have an alu water neck I can chop and angle. I'll figure out the rad hose once in place.

      The dipstick looks like I may be able to angle to clear between the runners.

      I'll have to work out the crank breather after I get things in place.

      I think I can locate the radiator forward into the ac evaporator position for a bit more room.
      Last edited by weeblebiker; 01-16-2011 at 11:36 AM.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    8. Member Dave926's Avatar
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      09-09-2010 09:17 PM #8
      didnt i say a little while ago that you were going to do this?

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      09-11-2010 10:06 PM #9
      so after talking with my buddy that does the cad stuff at work, We 've come to the conclusion the itb to intake flange shape will be too difficult to machine without alot of steps.

      so

      time to look into a casting run. might go ahead and do 15-20 sets if pricing is relativley reasonable to recoupe the project costs.

      or

      I may look at machining a blank of the space and do something like making plaster molds of it to make wax copies and laying up carbon around it.

      I'll have to epoxy them to the flange though.
      or
      put 8 or so 4-40 thread brass insert in the head side of the adapter and run 4/40 screws threw the flange into the adapter. that might be cool, I think 32 to 40 4-40 screws will be strong enough to keep things in place with an additional support bracket holding the corolla manifold plenum to the block

      I still need that accessory bracket though, my 8v alt took a dump. I pinched a wire inside and blew the diode bridge.
      Last edited by weeblebiker; 09-12-2010 at 07:55 AM.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    10. Member EL DRIFTO's Avatar
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      09-24-2010 08:29 AM #10
      very interesting, i wonder the net pulse tuning effects

      any calculations on that like TB venturi to intake valve seat, or 4into1 to valve seat ?

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      09-25-2010 12:34 AM #11
      I've been thinking about that a bit. but fuguring out the logistics of making the adapters has been more of an issue. I really like where the stock manifold runner length puts the pulse harmonic right above cruise rpm i.e. mpg highway is better. I have not gotten an accurate runner length yet, but I know it will be longer than stock by a few inches.

      btw the alt bracket isssue is taken care of.
      Last edited by weeblebiker; 09-25-2010 at 12:39 AM.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    12. Member
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      10-18-2010 10:30 PM #12
      hope to have my oval to round transitions done this week.
      making em out of 1.75" ID 1/8" wall.
      attempting to keep the transition to 1.25" long using a round .20" deep flanged plug and .20" of the other end in a mill vice using the mill head as a press to keep things held down while I'm squeezing.

      should have plenum to valve length of just over 25"

      I predict I'll catch the second harmonic @ 5700ish range if the runner to plenum calcs still apply to a throttlebody manifold setup like this. since the 4 runners join at the plenum and there is no tb, I should have a harmonic off the intercooler, so I'm going to try and measure that out correctly and catch the first harmonic around 6000 rpm.


      I'm machining taper transitions on the engine side of the itbs to bring the opening ID to 1.75" dia round. will be easier to mate up to than trying the match the 1.50"ish dia with the .75" dia ish upper cut-out where the injector tapers in and still achieve the venturi effect around the injection area and not cause a bunch of turbulance. will also cut a 2" dia inset to locate the round to oval tapers in the itbs.

      thinking of squirting the fuel in @ the itb injector port and water in at the stock injector port.
      the fuel should get a better mix if it goes in first,,, I think, instead of trying to mix fuel in air with a bunch of water droplets in it.

      it's better than watching tv i guess.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    13. Member Stussy NJ's Avatar
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      10-20-2010 12:44 PM #13
      Hmm id like to see the flow numbers of that Toyota manifold vs our stock 16v manifold. Wonder how it would pair up against say a SRI for a turbo application.

      Also where did you get that manifold, like what motor/year/car?

      Love the creativity of this build tho cant wait to see more progress

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      10-20-2010 07:08 PM #14
      i like your build. when i decided to turbo my car a few years back i ran into some problems with the intake manifold i wanted to run and had a race to get to in 3 days...so i had my old jenvy itb's sitting collecting dust. a few calls later a friend made me a plenum to fit onto the itb's. put them on the car and i have loved it ever since. spools much better in the midrange compared to my old intake. power up top is still the same. heres a lil vid of a low boost dyno pass i did last year.

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      10-21-2010 07:31 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Stussy NJ View Post
      Hmm id like to see the flow numbers of that Toyota manifold vs our stock 16v manifold. Wonder how it would pair up against say a SRI for a turbo application.

      Also where did you get that manifold, like what motor/year/car?

      Love the creativity of this build tho cant wait to see more progress
      98-02 corolla 1zzfe engine

      the oe rocco plenum puts the opening 90* and right next to #4 cylinder, no way it is getting equel flow compared to #1 cylinder. the other oe manifolds will be better getting air into #4. but that would not clear my tower brace and would be too easy.

      honestly I'm still haven't commited to the toyota runners over a plenum on the itbs. I want to make the runners removable. maybe I will build a big plenum and compare both, hmmm
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    16. Member Stussy NJ's Avatar
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      10-21-2010 11:56 AM #16
      Im going to be picking one up shortly ( if i can find one somewhere) and have it port matched and see how it is, the look of the damn thing is just amazing in its self. From your pics i can really tell how #4 gets uneven flow compared to #1 but ill take your word for it haha.

      Reason i believe those will beat out a SIR at lest on your set up is the amount of torque your going to make vs a short runner with a large plenum. Just my .02 either way keep us updated

    17. Member speed51133!'s Avatar
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      10-21-2010 01:15 PM #17
      silly rabbit, exhaust manifolds are for exhausts, not intakes!!!

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      10-23-2010 03:09 PM #18
      current setup


      didn't get the transitions made yet. I had mid terms and saturday class final to get ready (getting a piece of paper with the word "engineer" on it) and had to take my boy over to Purdue for a perspective student visit. dang life getting in the way of car time again
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    19. Member Breadfan5968's Avatar
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      10-25-2010 08:11 PM #19
      Turboed ITB 16v eh... this goes in the watched-list.

      Good luck on the build. Something I've been thinking of for a long time now. Turbo or SC on ITB's. Think the SC would give more low and mid range torque though.

    20. Banned ellocolindo's Avatar
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      10-25-2010 11:53 PM #20
      now if this thread pulls through; we can mate this to the audi v8 head set-up and make a real abomination of mother nature out of a 16v engine....

    21. Member Stussy NJ's Avatar
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      10-26-2010 01:54 PM #21
      ^ i like your style

    22. Member Breadfan5968's Avatar
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      10-26-2010 04:24 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by ellocolindo View Post
      now if this thread pulls through; we can mate this to the audi v8 head set-up and make a real abomination of mother nature out of a 16v engine....
      That's what I was thinking.

      VW MK2, Audi 4-cilinder bottom, V8 head, Corolla manifold, big ass turbo, TWM itb's and a nice SC for low end torque.

    23. Member Stussy NJ's Avatar
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      10-26-2010 06:14 PM #23
      only if it was so simple... we can all dream

    24. Member Breadfan5968's Avatar
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      10-27-2010 03:04 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Stussy NJ View Post
      only if it was so simple... we can all dream
      Everybody can do simple.
      Simple is boring!

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      10-27-2010 09:10 PM #25
      got the transitions part way done.
      able to get em in 1.14" of tubing. have to mill the taco shape off the ends to get em flat so I can weld em up.

      so I have about 12"+ of tubing left. anyone want transitions made let me know. I just want to cover my tubing purchase $35 shipped for anything made out of the rest.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    26. Banned ellocolindo's Avatar
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      10-28-2010 09:09 AM #26
      interested in this. any pictures?

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      10-28-2010 09:29 PM #27
      I'm thinking of putting a flange on the engine and runner side of the itb's and sandiwching the itb's between the flanges with through bolts. this way I can get the itb's apart to maintain/swap if necessary.
      the flange will be set all the way down around the transitions to not lengthen things. it will justtake some mill time.

      also I'm going to mimic the cis fuel nozzles for the water injection, minus the o-rings on the end of the air shrouds. this should put the nozzle where the vw engineers decided to inject in the manifold. not including the lower o-ring will open the the air shroud rail to the manifold to use for the brake booster while still shielding the nozzles from radiant heat soak and vaporizing the water out.


      Last edited by weeblebiker; 10-28-2010 at 09:57 PM.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    28. Member
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      10-28-2010 10:33 PM #28
      also so everyone knows.
      the toyota manifold runners apears to be spaced about 87mm. our haeds are spaced 88mm.
      not quite a direct mate up but workable with a bit of muscle.
      that said I did take the plunge and cut the manifold flange and the round to oval transitions off.
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    29. Banned ellocolindo's Avatar
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      10-29-2010 11:47 AM #29
      i am a bit lost here.
      on the last picture it would be like this?

      flange that connects the head to the ITBs; the missing ITBs; the flange from the corolla manifold?

      can you pm me a number to reach you at for a exahust cam mod purchase?
      paypal ready

    30. Member Dave926's Avatar
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      10-29-2010 05:51 PM #30
      What about the coolant flange off the head....im curious to see what your solution is for that. The stock one looks rather tight

    31. Member Breadfan5968's Avatar
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      10-29-2010 06:05 PM #31
      TWM sells one that should work like a charm. It's not on their site, but you get it as a packagedeal along with the ITB's. If you want just the flange, just shoot them an email and they'll sell you one.

    32. Member
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      10-29-2010 07:06 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by ellocolindo View Post
      i am a bit lost here.
      on the last picture it would be like this?

      flange that connects the head to the ITBs; the missing ITBs; the flange from the corolla manifold?

      can you pm me a number to reach you at for a exahust cam mod purchase?
      paypal ready
      pictured is the motor to itb side of the project. overall length will be about 1/4" lower than the top of the transitions, the flange will be flush with the transition tops.

      my plan is to have this done this winter and running by spring. it is a slow process. alot of things need to be considered for the full assembly. being able to get to all the damn screws for isntallation and dissasembly, adjusting the plate linkage to balance the idle, reach the idle bypass screws, fuel and water plumbing, over all length and dissassmbly for maintainance, clearance for the water neck, distance between the motor and radiator, and supporting the whole assembly on the motor (with the length of things there is a good possiblilty of hitting a harmonic and shaking the damn thing apart @ 5k or so rpms)

      If I just slapped it together, I very well may have something that cannot be installed or adjusted or maintained.

      WOOT!

      halloween smilies
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

    33. Banned ellocolindo's Avatar
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      10-29-2010 09:43 PM #33
      okay i will follow the progress on this.
      i am boosting my 16v maybe with a audi v8 head as described in the other thread.
      i am not shooting water into the engine to cool it down. i am only looking for like 220 hp at the most.
      so i am looking for the exahsut cam mod right now.
      can you calculate shipping with usps to l8h 6p1?
      paypal ready.

    34. Member Dave926's Avatar
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      11-01-2010 07:28 PM #34
      Breadfan can you post a pic of the twm waterneck?

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      11-01-2010 09:30 PM #35
      Thanks Dave926 for reminding me to add a water neck to the aluminum scrap pile I have under my desk at work right now
      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      engine build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ntake-manifold

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