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    Thread: The tdi hpfp problem. Overstated? Understated?

    1. Member
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      09-17-2010 11:19 PM #1
      I was really considering also looking at a tdi, but really..there seem to be enough cases of catastrophic failure to the tune of an uncovered $7k repair bill. Clearly these people aren't all guilty of putting gas in their car...and assuming they filled up with commercial diesel, this shouldn't be happening.

      That said it's really put me off even considering a tdi tbh. It's a shame because from what I gather they have been historically quite reliable...my neighbor even has a mk iv jetta which iirc has over 200k miles.

      So all that said, do you think vag will eventually own up to a defective part, batch, etc and sort things for those affected? At least if they did that it would inspire some confidence that the issue is resolved. Denying the issue certainly doesn't imply to me it's been remedied. While it may affect a very low number of cars, it's an awfully expensive repair to gamble on. How many people have had this issue and it isn't reported (not enthusiasts, tech peole, etc). Seems like a big deal to me.
      Last edited by rockstar; 09-17-2010 at 11:21 PM.

    2. Member Code3VW's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 01:39 AM #2
      There are different 'grades' of diesel. As it says on the dash, you must fill up with ultra low sulfur diesel (ulsd) so not all diesel stations apply.

      That being said, keep records and you should be fine. There are a relatively low number of these issues versus the thousands of common rail diesels they've sold.

    3. Member MaxHedrm's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 03:20 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Code3VW View Post
      There are different 'grades' of diesel. As it says on the dash, you must fill up with ultra low sulfur diesel (ulsd) so not all diesel stations apply.

      That being said, keep records and you should be fine. There are a relatively low number of these issues versus the thousands of common rail diesels they've sold.
      ULSD is for emissions reasons, not the fuel pump. Not only that, but it has been required by law for on road vehicles for some time now, so I doubt you would find LSD anywhere in the US anymore.
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      09-18-2010 09:20 AM #4
      So the answer is to save every gas receipt.. yikes!

    5. 09-18-2010 10:55 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by rockstar View Post
      So the answer is to save every gas receipt.. yikes!
      The answer is to not take any BS from the dealership when you bring it in. Don't let them tell you that somebody put petrol in your car when you know damn well that you're the only one who puts fuel in it.

      "You cover this under the warranty like you should, or you even trade this one for a new one and never see me again."

    6. Junior Member CheesyRider's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 11:13 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by rockstar View Post
      So the answer is to save every gas receipt.. yikes!
      No, whatever you do, don't save any gas receipts.

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      09-18-2010 01:18 PM #7
      ultra low sulfur has less lubricity than low sulfar diesel so it does have some to do with the pump. its easily cured though by fueling up with B2-B5 diesel and you can also just add a quart of B100 to each fuel up to get to B2 mixture. B2 is plenty enough to increase lubricity. Also you're going to hear about the failures because thats what people do when they find forums. The failure rate isnt a true representation of whats out there. there have been posts saying that the actual failure rate is somewhere around less than 1% and those are just estimates out there.

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      09-18-2010 02:07 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by rockstar View Post
      So the answer is to save every gas receipt.. yikes!
      One of my neighbors has a '10 JSW TDI in his garage, with around 4000 miles on it, which is inoperable due to HPFP failure. When the dealer told him it would be $7-8k to fix it because his wife was a moron who filled it with the wrong fuel, he produced fuel receipts from the Shell station 1/2 mile down the street from the dealer for every tank of ulsd ever put in the car. They basically told him he should get a nice album to keep his receipts in, but that repair would not commence until he signed an acceptance of the written estimate. He flat-bedded it home and began legal action and reports to the USDOT and NHSTA.



      Quote Originally Posted by dpg View Post
      Also you're going to hear about the failures because thats what people do when they find forums. The failure rate isnt a true representation of whats out there. there have been posts saying that the actual failure rate is somewhere around less than 1% and those are just estimates out there.
      I used to believe that but if you go to the DSG forums and look at the threads on DSG/mechatronics/clutch pack failure there are a lot, but only a small fraction of those reported to government auspices.

    9. Member Code3VW's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 02:22 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by brian81 View Post
      One of my neighbors has a '10 JSW TDI in his garage, with around 4000 miles on it, which is inoperable due to HPFP failure. When the dealer told him it would be $7-8k to fix it because his wife was a moron who filled it with the wrong fuel, he produced fuel receipts from the Shell station 1/2 mile down the street from the dealer for every tank of ulsd ever put in the car. They basically told him he should get a nice album to keep his receipts in, but that repair would not commence until he signed an acceptance of the written estimate. He flat-bedded it home and began legal action and reports to the USDOT and NHSTA.
      Why, on earth, should VW pay for his "moron wife's" error?

    10. Member Code3VW's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 02:26 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by MaxHedrm View Post
      ULSD is for emissions reasons, not the fuel pump. Not only that, but it has been required by law for on road vehicles for some time now, so I doubt you would find LSD anywhere in the US anymore.
      Sorry, but it isn't December 1st yet.

      http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...pes/a/ulsd.htm
      http://www.clean-diesel.org/highway.html

      The pumps that have ULSD must state it on the pump. Be aware people!

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      09-18-2010 02:31 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by brian81 View Post
      One of my neighbors has a '10 JSW TDI in his garage, with around 4000 miles on it, which is inoperable due to HPFP failure. When the dealer told him it would be $7-8k to fix it because his wife was a moron who filled it with the wrong fuel, he produced fuel receipts from the Shell station 1/2 mile down the street from the dealer for every tank of ulsd ever put in the car. They basically told him he should get a nice album to keep his receipts in, but that repair would not commence until he signed an acceptance of the written estimate. He flat-bedded it home and began legal action and reports to the USDOT and NHSTA.
      This is the real problem with the HPFP issue, and what gives me pause as well on purchasing a TDI - VW is making it too damn hard on people with real warranty problems. There may be some real cases of water in the fuel or refueling with gasoline instead of diesel, but most of the cases I've read about are real problems by people who have used and refueled their cars in a normal fashion. The way that VW treats most of them is reminiscent of their 1.8T coil pack response - abominable.
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      09-18-2010 02:32 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Code3VW View Post
      Why, on earth, should VW pay for his "moron wife's" error?
      Your reading comprehension stinks, or I'm missing your sarcasm. The dealer who said that was full of bovine excrement.
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    13. Member Code3VW's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 02:35 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by B4A3WhatNext View Post
      Your reading comprehension stinks, or I'm missing your sarcasm. The dealer who said that was full of bovine excrement.
      His story telling sucks.

      Did his wife fill it up with incorrect fuel?

      If he had been filling up the car with fuel from the same gas station, he should have gone after the station for redress.

      Did the pump state "Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel?"

      I find it hard to believe that the dealership called his wife a moron...
      Last edited by Code3VW; 09-18-2010 at 02:47 PM.

    14. Member RogueTDI's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 04:49 PM #14
      1) I'd like to know what legal grounds VW has for trying to stick owners with a 1/3 the new vehicle cost in repair bills on a brand new vehicle. I would assume that Magnuson Moss would require VW to prove that gasoline was run through the fuel system, to deny the owner warranty coverage.

      2) This is a subsystem absolutely critical to the engine, and on that alone I should think it preposterous to deny coverage, especially given the repair bills.

      3) If this is a frequent occurrence (which I dont believe - it's probably far less than 1% of TDIs), and VW had clout in their refusal to honor the warranty, I would think a class action law suit would already be in existence.

      In the rare instance you do end up with a failed pump, you are a fool to just pony up $5000+ for repairs on a brand new car. Go to small claims, do what is necessary, but dont let VW get away with this.

      Additionally, no diesel fuel will cause lubricity failures. ULSD should and I believe does already have lubricity improvers in it, and anything with higher sulfur wont hurt the pump, just emissions equipment. Only gasoline could cause the problem.

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      09-18-2010 05:28 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Code3VW View Post
      His story telling sucks.

      Did his wife fill it up with incorrect fuel?



      I find it hard to believe that the dealership called his wife a moron...
      I understood him perfectly.

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      09-18-2010 07:02 PM #16
      If one actually drove the new diesel engine on gas. The HPFP will be least of your concern. The engine detonating is a bigger concern.

      The need TDI has not had all the bugs fixed yet.
      Last edited by Boosted2003!; 09-18-2010 at 07:06 PM.

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      09-18-2010 07:38 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Boosted2003! View Post
      If one actually drove the new diesel engine on gas. The HPFP will be least of your concern. The engine detonating is a bigger concern.

      The need TDI has not had all the bugs fixed yet.
      lolwut?
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      Quote Originally Posted by Outie5000 View Post
      And lets be honest, owning a diesel car is nifty.

    18. Member MaxHedrm's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 08:03 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by dpg View Post
      ultra low sulfur has less lubricity than low sulfar diesel so it does have some to do with the pump. its easily cured though by fueling up with B2-B5 diesel and you can also just add a quart of B100 to each fuel up to get to B2 mixture. B2 is plenty enough to increase lubricity. Also you're going to hear about the failures because thats what people do when they find forums. The failure rate isnt a true representation of whats out there. there have been posts saying that the actual failure rate is somewhere around less than 1% and those are just estimates out there.
      As I said, using ULSD as directed by VW should have zero impact on pump performance. And since the pump was (or at least should have been) designed for the lower lubricity of ULSD compared to LSD, LSD should not hurt the pump. What it will hurt is the emissions system.


      Quote Originally Posted by Code3VW View Post
      Sorry, but it isn't December 1st yet.

      http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...pes/a/ulsd.htm
      http://www.clean-diesel.org/highway.html

      The pumps that have ULSD must state it on the pump. Be aware people!
      True, but looking at the second link, there hasn't been any LSD allowed to be imported/produced for highway use since June and it is mandated to be 100% at the terminals by Oct 1. I think you would have to look pretty hard to find LSD anywhere, since 80% of the diesel produced/imported has been ULSD since June 2006.

      Not only that, but ULSD is for emissions. LSD should have no impact on the fuel pump.
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    19. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      09-18-2010 10:08 PM #19
      Car payments suck and repair payments to the dealer are even worse. I won't put myself in a position of doing both. Just say no to new TDIs until VW/audi figures this out.

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      09-19-2010 01:31 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRider View Post
      No, whatever you do, don't save any gas receipts.
      LOL, you know what I meant.. Fuel!

      Quote Originally Posted by G60ING View Post
      Car payments suck and repair payments to the dealer are even worse. I won't put myself in a position of doing both. Just say no to new TDIs until VW/audi figures this out.
      That's basically my thought. Even at <1%, it's such an expensive fix, I'm not willing to take the chance.. which is a shame since it seems a nice car otherwise.

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      09-19-2010 02:06 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by dhambrick View Post
      lolwut?
      Gasoline will have a good possibility of making a diesel motor detonate causing major internal issues.


      TDI motors have bugs like the FSI engine did. They weren't worked out before production. Only thing is they cost a lot more to fix.

    22. Member toasters's Avatar
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      09-19-2010 03:22 AM #22
      I was actually considering starting a thread like this today...glad I found this one.

      I was at the dealer today talking to the service manager about this issue and what I can do to protect myself from it.

      He said that in the past 2 years, they've had 2 cases of HPFP failure...this dealer sells around 20-30 TDI's per month.

      1st case: 2009 Jetta TDI. Had to fight with VW to get it covered under warranty.

      2nd case: 2009 Jetta TDI. VW authorized full fuel system replacement...no questions asked.

      Find a dealer that is willing to fight for you....one that will be on your side if HPFP failure occurs. I feel semi-confident that my dealer is on my side. This makes me slightly more comfortable with my 2011 TDI purchase.

      Has anyone on this forum even had HPFP failure?

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      09-19-2010 03:37 AM #23
      A fellow over on tdiclub has a list of about 30 hpfp failures from their forum members.
      Currently just a GTI/TDI wannabe.

    24. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-19-2010 07:11 AM #24
      I am not worried.

      1. There seem to be very, very few cases. AFAIK, none have been reported here. Many dealers/service places have never heard about this/ have never seen a case. There are 600 dealers in the US, and about 80,000 CR TDIs have been sold, so far. Say, there were 400 cases (I doubt it) - that would make 0.5%. Compare that to your chance of a Honda V6 transmission failing a few years ago (about 50+%), or your Subaru head gasket blowing at or before 100,000 miles (close to 100%, a few years ago).

      2. Most cases were reported early on - when fuel was still transitioning and may have been bad in some locations. There are very few - if any - recent cases.

      3. The idea that VW would just not cover this or that someone would have to personally pay for this is just ridiculous and IMO typical anti-VW fear-mongering. Of course it can happen if you have huge amount of water or gasoline in the fuel - but if that was not your fault, your insurance will cover it. And they will go after the fueling station.

      People need to gain some perspective, here.

    25. Member Pelican18TQA4's Avatar
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      09-19-2010 10:35 AM #25
      This problem is way overstated because of the potential costs associated with HPFP failure. Basically, the entire fuel system needs to be replaced because a destroyed HPFP will leave metal shards everywhere in the fuel system, including the injectors. That being said, VW has sold well over 60,000 TDIs since it was re-introduced in late '08 for the '09 model year and there have been literally a small handful of reported problems and out of those reported problems, not all of them have been attributed to actual failure of the HPFP due to mechanical and/or manufacturing defect. In addition, if you mosey on over to tdiclub.com, you'll find out that (to the best of my knowledge) no one has had to pay out of pocket for the associated repairs. I think there is one case where the owner had the insurance company pay, but I believe they are in the process of VW reimbursing them or something similar. The point being, again, this problem has been grossly overstated because of the potential financial impact of failure. Finally, if VW says that bad fuel caused the failure, the burden of proof is on VW, not the owner. VW has to prove that bad fuel caused the failure in order to deny warranty repair. And no need to get a $$$ lawyer involved, just educate yourself about the law if you find yourself in this type of situation and respond to the dealer's allegations accordingly.

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      09-19-2010 01:23 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Boosted2003! View Post
      If one actually drove the new diesel engine on gas. The HPFP will be least of your concern. The engine detonating is a bigger concern.

      The need TDI has not had all the bugs fixed yet.
      Commas often. Help when. Constructing long sentences.

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      09-19-2010 07:41 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Code3VW View Post
      Why, on earth, should VW pay for his "moron wife's" error?
      Quote Originally Posted by Code3VW View Post
      Did his wife fill it up with incorrect fuel?

      Did the pump state "Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel?"
      Quote Originally Posted by brian81 View Post
      When the dealer told him it would be $7-8k to fix it because his wife was a moron who filled it with the wrong fuel, he produced fuel receipts from the Shell station 1/2 mile down the street from the dealer for every tank of ulsd ever put in the car.
      See if you can follow along, boys. ULSD = ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL

      The car was never exposed to incorrect fuel. The owner used the station on record as they supply Top Tier fuels. They were taking no chances on bad DIESEL fuel.

      http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

      Quote Originally Posted by Pelican18TQA4 View Post
      And no need to get a $$$ lawyer involved, just educate yourself about the law if you find yourself in this type of situation and respond to the dealer's allegations accordingly.
      Unfortunately for the dealer, the couple down the street are both attorneys. And the "moron" comment about his wife really pissed the guy off.

      Quote Originally Posted by Code3VW View Post
      I find it hard to believe that the dealership called his wife a moron...
      Why? Because the VW dealer network is a bastion of honesty and customer satisfaction? That's pretty humorous.

      I've lived near this dealer for 18 years. A few years ago a took my Passat there as there were two open recalls on it. When I was given the paperwork for the no-charge work, the service adviser told me that my turbo was going, and should be replaced before it seizes up on the road. I asked how they knew that, and was told they checked the boost pressure and there wasn't much. I asked why they did a boost pressure test if the recall involved ball joints and the right rear fender liner, and he said they liked to do "preventative diagnostics" on their customers' cars. I asked where the data printout was and he said that they could only get me that when the repair was done. They wanted $2400 + tax.

      The funny thing was, about a month before I installed a new K04 15 from ECS. When the switch on the APR software was returned to the 93 octane setting from the stock setting, it had plenty of boost.

      Last fall I was in the showroom with the dealership owner's son, who was in the sales dept. We'd just test driven the first Golf 2.5 with a stick that came in last fall. There was a GTI on the showroom floor with the door open, so I hopped in to see if the rumor was true that the seats were the same in the GTI and the Golf. Suddenly the passenger door opens and this older guy screams at me, "SOLD CAR!". I was kind of startled, partly since I didn't see him sitting on the floor waxing the passenger door, and partly since the owner's son was right there. If this crazy old guy didn't see him, he certainly heard us talking for a couple of minutes. Then he barks out once more, "SOLD CAR!". I stepped out of the car and asked the guy WTF was wrong with him. The car wasn't marked "Sold-Keep Away", and was wide open, so how was I supposed to know it was sold? And what about calmly explaining that the car is sold and will be picked up in a couple of hours? The a-hole just stared at me, and the owner's son had his jaw on the floor.

      So besides trusting my friends, my experience with the store didn't cause me to doubt for a second that she was called a moron. This store is part of a family business that has been selling cars in our town for about 80 years, and has about six brands. They don't care about the little things or return customers, only the number of units sold this month.

    28. 09-21-2010 01:50 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      I am not worried.

      1. There seem to be very, very few cases. AFAIK, none have been reported here. Many dealers/service places have never heard about this/ have never seen a case. There are 600 dealers in the US, and about 80,000 CR TDIs have been sold, so far. Say, there were 400 cases (I doubt it) - that would make 0.5%. Compare that to your chance of a Honda V6 transmission failing a few years ago (about 50+%), or your Subaru head gasket blowing at or before 100,000 miles (close to 100%, a few years ago).

      It happened to me, with 26k miles my 2009 TDI HPFP failed in the middle of an intersection with no warning. I have all my fuel receipts since day one, and dealer found "fuel contamination" so VWofA would not warranty.

      2. Most cases were reported early on - when fuel was still transitioning and may have been bad in some locations. There are very few - if any - recent cases.

      On sep 1st, NHTSA opened a recall investigation into this phenomena.

      3. The idea that VW would just not cover this or that someone would have to personally pay for this is just ridiculous and IMO typical anti-VW fear-mongering. Of course it can happen if you have huge amount of water or gasoline in the fuel - but if that was not your fault, your insurance will cover it. And they will go after the fueling station.

      Insurance co found that the station had no other reports of bad fuel from 10k tank or other complaints.

      People need to gain some perspective, here.
      It's not significant unless it happens to you.

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      09-21-2010 09:57 PM #29
      Code3VW I can only assume everything you said was a joke.

      If you go to the doctor to get a sore throat checked out, do you expect a finger in your butt for a prostate exam that you never asked for? There is no reason anyone at a dealership should be doing anything to your car that you have not expressly asked them to do. Crap like that is how things that worked fine before the dealer touched them no longer continue to work when you leave. Also, how in the world could there ever be a wrongful death suit for anything that was never asked to be looked at? Somebody call Johnny Cochran for the Chewbacca defense.

      Brian81's story was used to set precedent for the dealer. Precedent is useful both in the legal world, and to anyone else making a decision about the repute of a person or business. Calling someone's wife a moron and yelling at someone are the exact same thing in that they are both examples of some of the most poor customer service I have ever heard of.
      Last edited by JettaMobile; 09-21-2010 at 10:01 PM.

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      09-21-2010 10:06 PM #30
      I bought a gti, I am not willing to take the chance.

    31. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-22-2010 06:43 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by steelyeyed View Post
      It's not significant unless it happens to you.
      It's not significant to me, even then --- because it is an occurrence that has been documented to happen very, very rarely - and much less often than the well-known oil sludging, automatic transmission failure, ECU failures, omitted break pedal intercept on unintended acceleration, and more that afflict a huge percentage of Toyotas and Hondas - likely twenty to a hundred times as much.

      In both absolute numbers and percentages this simply is a non-issue compared to typical car problems by all manufacturers. While it is one of the rarer things to happen to engines (in terms of documented percentage) , it is also something that is definitely - no question about it - initially covered under warranty.

      (Added for clarification: I agree that VW should step up and extend the warranty on the HPFP from the pitiful 3 years/ 36,000 miles to 10 years/ 100,000 miles.)
      Last edited by feels_road; 09-23-2010 at 12:18 AM.

    32. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-22-2010 06:46 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by rockstar View Post
      I bought a gti, I am not willing to take the chance.
      What chance? You mean, you are prepared to buy a decent but iffy performance model over the one that Taxis and other commercial entities in Europe prefer over any other single engine in Europe - to last them 300,000 to 500,000 miles?
      Last edited by feels_road; 09-22-2010 at 06:48 AM.

    33. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      09-22-2010 06:57 AM #33
      Show me a single VWvortex member who has actually posted an HPFP problem on his or her car, in this MkVI forum.

      I have been here from day zero - and haven't seen one, yet.

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      09-22-2010 08:10 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      What chance? You mean, you are prepared to buy a decent but iffy performance model over the one that Taxis and other commercial entities in Europe prefer over any other single engine in Europe - to last them 300,000 to 500,000 miles?
      Sorry, I should have been more clear. The failure reports (in very small part) coupled with my desire for more performance led me to buy a gti. I drove a tdi and ended up preferring a bit more speed.

    35. Member syncro87's Avatar
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      09-22-2010 12:23 PM #35
      I have a 2010 TDI and am moderately concerned. I spoke with some service management personnel I trust at a local dealership and they seemed quite worried about it.

      The issue seems to me to be that the high pressure fuel pumps are not designed to run long term on the fuel we have access to in the United States.

      Diesel fuel is rated according to a "wear scar" test. In other words, metal parts are "rubbed" together with diesel as the lubricant. Wear is measured, i.e. how much the metal is scarred. The lower the number, the better. In other words, diesel with a 200 lubricity score is far better than a 400 score.

      The lubricity standard for the USA is 520 micron wear scar. Bosch and others have put a ton of research into what lubricity level fuel needs to have to avoid premature component failure. Unfortunately, that number is 460 or less. At levels above 460, Bosch indicates that premature wear is likely.

      Keep in mind also that increase in wear is likely not linear after you exceed the minimum. If you have a fuel that is 10% too weak in lubricity, it doesn't necessarily mean you have 10% more component wear. You might have 50% more component wear. Once you exceed the minimum lubricity level, wear rate likely increases much more quickly. Kind of like how wind resistance increases with speed--eventually, you have to add a ridiculous amount of power to go a tiny bit faster.

      Bosch and several other industry heavy hitters have published documents relating to this subject.

      Here is a great read for anyone interested, and it's not a long paper. Pay particular attention to the paragraph dealing with lubricity.

      http://www.globaldenso.com/en/topics...tion_paper.pdf

      Seems like the bottom line is that the HPFP is designed to reliably operate using fuel of 460 or lower, and we only have access to 520 in the US. Not a recipe for success if you ask me, durability-wise.


      It doesn't seem like rocket science to me. You have diesel with poor lubricating quality, a precision pump that depends on fuel for lubrication, and engineering research conducted and signed off on by major industry players indicating that certain lubricity standards must be met to reliably operate equipment. On a daily basis, we're running diesel fuel with a lubricity too poor to protect the pump. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but kind of makes sense as to why you'd see premature failure of TDI fuel system parts.

      This would be a big enough deal if you just had to replace the HPFP prematurely. Unfortunately, when it fails, it generally sends lots of metal shavings throughout the system. This results in having to replace a ton of other components.

      Fortunately, there is some good news. VW has a long standing reputation of being generous with warranty claims, and giving owners the benefit of the doubt. It's not like they'd try to pull the "you used crummy diesel" defense and try to pin their design flaw on the customer.

      As far as TDIClub goes, there is a variety of response. Some are hysterical, some completely unconcerned. There are, however, a fair number of people who are affected, and some of them have not had easy times getting repairs done under warranty. Some have had the dealership use the bad fuel alibi on them. A few have had to retain legal counsel to get resolution. I don't think the average person on TDIClub is any more or less of a nutcase than anyone on Vortex. The vast majority of people who have experienced HPFP failures are probably regular folks who happen to be VW diesel enthusiasts.
      Last edited by syncro87; 09-22-2010 at 12:40 PM.

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