.:VRsixGLI 12v R32 Turbo Build Thread

[VRsixGLI]

And as far as clutches go, the CM twin disks have been proven to hold and work well and it's not crazy pricey.

I have done as much research as possible about clutches for the R32 and the only one that has ZERO complaints is the DM setup. I understand that most people have success on other VW and non VW platforms but they suck in the R32. Period.

Chris Green runs one in his 9 second VR6 powered S4 with no issues

This is totally irrelevant. I don't have an S4 nor is a 9 sec or 19 sec s4 relevant to a clutch that works in an R32.

Evo's have no problem with clutchmasters and exedy twin disks.

This is also totally irrelevant. This isn't an evo forum so I am really not concerned what clutches work for them because they are COMPLETELY different.

2.3L with a 6262

62mm vs 67mm


Id say thats decent tq for a 4cylinder. The 2.3 has way more over the 2Ls but oh well. Not going to hijack this thread.


The build looks dope. The triple plate will work fine just many options that will probably work just as good. Overkill on the clutch can result in other problems with drivetrain. Id rather replace a clutch than a transmission. My build I have the weak link in the axles and clutch to help save the stock o2a.

The clutch is absolutely not overkill. Just because it happens to be strongest clutch and the only one that works leaves me with no other options. I have no problem replacing $300 clutches if they have a decent life span but a 2k clutch that lasts two passes at the track is not my idea of saving the drivetrain.

Just wanted to clear things up a bit, I am 99.99% sure Chris is using a tilton clutch in the S4, its a S4 transmission mated to a vr6 motor, so its a audi S4 tilton clutch, not a CM twin disk for an O2A.

I know he sells alot of the CM twin disks, and swears by them to hold power, but I dont even know if they make a CM twin disk for the audi trans

It honestly makes no difference to me what "Chris" is running in his car and what he is having success with because I have no plans of building an S4.

Well I wouldn't recommend the Tilton since he's had a bunch of problems with it. I guess I forgot he is still running the Tilton so disregard that. But his Jetta ran a CM, Jeremy with the 208mph VR6 runs one, and Todd P with the MK3 1.8T runs one as well. I'm running one now so let's see. But I mean some applications work better than others I guess but I never really heard too many bad things about CM. Heard more from Spec though that's for sure.

Please STFU now this retarded. IF you have zero knowledge about a subject stop arguing it. Your cluttering this thread with stupid bull **** that is completely irrelevant to what is going on here, In case you missed the title this is an R32. Not and Evo, S4, Jetta or and other car that happens to have a working CM clutch in it. THERE IS NO CLUTCH THAT WORKS FOR THE R32 BESIDES THE DM CLUTCH.

I am using a CM twin disk as well, but my car is still not finished.

I saw your car at USP when I was there last time

I hope everyone is done posting stupid **** now. It is obvious that no one has any experience with aftermarket clutches in the R32. So if everyone could please leave the bull **** out of this thread it would be greatly appreciated. I am buying the DM clutch regardless of how many people post about any other XYZ clutch that works in any other applications because they clearly do not work in the R32.

huichox4 thank you for trying to set facts straight in here someone needs to.

[obdONE]

bump for more pictures, and less BS. Your car is going to be amazing, and honestly, the fact it has a 12v in there makes me like it that much more.

[MiamiVr6T]

Please STFU now this retarded. IF you have zero knowledge about a subject stop arguing it. Your cluttering this thread with stupid bull **** that is completely irrelevant to what is going on here, In case you missed the title this is an R32. Not and Evo, S4, Jetta or and other car that happens to have a working CM clutch in it.


THERE IS NO CLUTCH THAT WORKS FOR THE R32 BESIDES THE DM CLUTCH.



I hope everyone is done posting stupid **** now. It is obvious that no one has any experience with aftermarket clutches in the R32. So if everyone could please leave the bull **** out of this thread it would be greatly appreciated. I am buying the DM clutch regardless of how many people post about any other XYZ clutch that works in any other applications because they clearly do not work in the R32.

huichox4 thank you for trying to set facts straight in here someone needs to.

Brother if you truly believe that than I feel sorry for you. Brainwashed like everyone else. Spend millions if you want on your junk. I was trying to talk about other options that are possible for you. But go ahead and F**** your POS build you punk B****!!!!!!!!

[huichox4]

Brother if you truly believe that than I feel sorry for you. Brainwashed like everyone else. Spend millions if you want on your junk. I was trying to talk about other options that are possible for you. But go ahead and F**** your POS build you punk B****!!!!!!!!

do you have first hand experience with an R32 turbo and high torque in this car?

do you own one?

your comments are like saying get a stock clutch and you will be fine....... just like all the other companies that created all of this failed clutches

VF engineering was a CM distributor specifically for the R 32 stg 1, 2 and 3 kits that were supposed to withstand a lot of power.


they had so many issues with them that they regret it. Streetwerke has CM make clutch kits to their specs for the R32 and when they work for moderate power they only last 10,000 miles average, less if you are putting more power.

the DM kit can widstand 1200 awhp twist an input shaft and be taken out of the tranny, clean it and throw it to a new tranny without a problem. plus rebuilding it costs way less than replacing with a new kit from CM.

South bend had to redesign their kits because they blew up several times. now they have an option for moderate to high power but not really sure how much they will last because they are very recent.

you pay a lot for the DM kit at first but when you can rebuild it a few times the price might be even cheaper than what you will end up paying every 10000 miles for any other kit in the long run.


dont come with speculations and sh** here. we are here to help not to talk out of our A** like you seem to be doing.

[MiamiVr6T]

AND

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...build../page25


I guess Specs or QMs don't work on R32s... Oh yea but only DM clutches work or maybe that clutch made from rare diamonds in Africa I heard works pretty good too


R32s... the only car that has a vewy vewy vewy special need for only one clutch manufacturer in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD!

[huichox4]

that is the same guy I told you that had to stiffen up pretty much all the drive line with custom braces and track bars and full solid custom mounts. I have talked to him specifically about all of that.

so you can buy your cheap a** SPEC but will end up spending way more than 2 DM kits at least to make it work

plus the link you posted is a pretty much a one off kit like the whole car itself. and he blew his transfer case not so long ago due to the same issues we have ........... and its mounted on an MK2 with custom everything!!!


you are not more than an online junky that knows how to google pics and vids man.

you dont have to post what has been said

we have done our leg work ........... thats said and done.

[GTijoejoe]

R32s... the only car that has a vewy vewy vewy special need for only one clutch manufacturer in the WHOLE WIDE WORLD!

haha, but honestly speaking.... what makes the R32 setup so much different than a VR?
Hydro control setup? Flywheel? disk diameter? ...I'm trying to understand what's so special about the setup that it takes a very specific application to be reliable on similar power levels

[charlie hayes]

Usually when you see 500whp or higher and you have any intention on driving the car hard you upgrade mounts and brace things. I hope the DM clutch works for you. Like I said earlier nice build but next time don't get all but hurt when people post their opinions. Its a forum and thats what happens.

[MiamiVr6T]

Usually when you see 500whp or higher and you have any intention on driving the car hard you upgrade mounts and brace things. I hope the DM clutch works for you. Like I said earlier nice build but next time don't get all but hurt when people post their opinions. Its a forum and thats what happens.

Exactly

Trying to help the guy or just discuss different options and turns into some d***head. That's why sometimes I regret saying anything in the first place on forums.

[VRsixGLI]

Usually when you see 500whp or higher and you have any intention on driving the car hard you upgrade mounts and brace things. I hope the DM clutch works for you. Like I said earlier nice build but next time don't get all but hurt when people post their opinions. Its a forum and thats what happens.

1. My "but" is not hurt
2. Opinions are what spread incorrect information and are usually from people with no experience in the subject.
3. I appreciate the kind words on the project.

Exactly

Trying to help the guy or just discuss different options and turns into some d***head. That's why sometimes I regret saying anything in the first place on forums.

I am not trying to be a dick head I am simply stating that if you read through the full thread huichox4 posted earlier you would learn that every aftermarket clutch option besides the DM unit have failed on numerous R32s. Believe me I have done my homework on the clutch and learned from other failures with other clutches. Sorry for coming off as a dick I just don't feel like having this thread turn into a clutch debate that really is not needed.

[huichox4]

haha, but honestly speaking.... what makes the R32 setup so much different than a VR?
Hydro control setup? Flywheel? disk diameter? ...I'm trying to understand what's so special about the setup that it takes a very specific application to be reliable on similar power levels

the disk diameter is bigger and some odd dimension which is not the most popular, therefore another reason why not too many aftermarket companies put a lot of reaserch time for the R32 clutches, on top of only 5000 potential customers when the car came out in the US.

most kits from CM had issues with engagement and disengagement in the upper revs plus when you made good power they started to last pretty much nothing and or blew up destroying the tranny housings. I think it was more of a problem with the slave cylinder for the engagement issues, kits blowing up were due to some manufacturers using painted stock pressureplates plus other bad quaality of manufacturing. go through the lynk I posted before, that should mention most of it.

Spec has not have great luck in VW's, its either hit or miss pretty much every one knows this.

there might be at least one german or european manufacrurer that makes a quality piece but it ends up being too expensive also.

[V-dubbulyuh]

most kits from CM had issues with engagement and disengagement in the upper revs plus when you made good power they started to last pretty much nothing and or blew up destroying the tranny housings.

Was this specific to the R32 or was this an overall vr issue?

[VRsixGLI]

Was this specific to the R32 or was this an overall vr issue?

Specific to the R32.

[VRsixGLI]

Should have some updates tomorrow. I removed the interior today and cleaned the hell out of everything since it was a mess. Working on where things are going to be placed such as the battery relocation, the surge tank, water box, water pump, and fuel pump. I remember seeing somewhere a picture of a batter installed where the monsoon amp is in the side of the hatch compartment I think I am going to try and get it to fit there.

Surge tank and fuel pump in the hatch or under the car is the question.
What is a rough price on new syncros installed in an R32 trans?

[fulleloaded]

Surge tank and fuel pump in the hatch or under the car is the question.

Pump & Surge tank under the car/below the tank, because fuel pumps are gravity pulled unsures proper flow and less chance of pump starvation.

[VRsixGLI]

Any pictures of the tank mounted under the car? Trying to determine the best location I'm thinking about having one made to fit where the green vacuum reservoir is located. Either that or I'm going to mount the tank in the spare tire well. I'm really looking for some pictures of where others have them mounted.

If i remove the green vacuum reservoir do I need to run any resistors to not get a cel?

What fittings are needed to run new fuel lines off the factory fuel pump to the surge tank and what size line should that be?

I need to either have a tank made or purchase a tank so I need to know what size fittings need to be on it.

I would like to run dual feed lines to the fuel rail where would the fpr?

Once the fueling is out of the way I'll move on to the next set of issues?

Anyone have a fueling diagram?

[gtizzle67]

as mentioned before, for your standalone, I recommend Lugtronic. Kevin Black really knows his stuff and offers excellent support.

[VRsixGLI]

Tuning is still up in the air.

[VRsixGLI]

Working on some wiring tonight should have a bunch of pictures tonight as well.

[huichox4]

Working on some wiring tonight should have a bunch of pictures tonight as well.

want to seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... .

[XXX008XXX]

the DM twin disc is a tilton. Chris green runs a carbon/carbon tilton in his audi but like said before it doesnt matter. on the other hand ed from force fed is running a clutchmasters twin and pushing 980 wheel thru an 02M trans, the same trans a R32 runs. tiltons are great and so are clutchmasters. pretty much all of the twin discs made now are very good and will handle what you can throw at them, and no its not overkill on the clutch its actually a very smart thing he is doing. only thing i recommend is a flow controll valve.

[XXX008XXX]

oh and i would def. use kevin for your ECU/wiring needs. shoot him an e-mail and pick his brain. he is always more then happy to talk to you about your build.

[huichox4]

the DM twin disc is a tilton. Chris green runs a carbon/carbon tilton in his audi but like said before it doesnt matter. on the other hand ed from force fed is running a clutchmasters twin and pushing 980 wheel thru an 02M trans, the same trans a R32 runs. tiltons are great and so are clutchmasters. pretty much all of the twin discs made now are very good and will handle what you can throw at them, and no its not overkill on the clutch its actually a very smart thing he is doing. only thing i recommend is a flow controll valve.

I gree with the clutch not being an overkill, this trannis get loaded differently when the transfer-case is there for the AWD putting much more stress in them by flexing them and twisting them in two different directions compared to just one is just a lot to take.

I think that the other kits have had issues with the slave cylinder itself too, I dont know if DM sells it with just a different top hat or machined to their spec or different internally but it works.

[XXX008XXX]

I gree with the clutch not being an overkill, this trannis get loaded differently when the transfer-case is there for the AWD putting much more stress in them by flexing them and twisting them in two different directions compared to just one is just a lot to take.

I think that the other kits have had issues with the slave cylinder itself too, I dont know if DM sells it with just a different top hat or machined to their spec or different internally but it works.

it is loaded differently yes, but with the FWD stuff we still have the same problem and we pretty much have that taken care of with some bracing, but since this is going into a mk2 chassis, the mounting points are different then a regular R32 to begin with. to the person building the car, i would start looking into some added bracing to take the "flex" off the trans, because thats how most of these single plate clutch style pressure plates blow apart in the first place. it all depends on how the car is going to be driven and how much power is going to be made in the end. after that its trial and error and unfortunatly its not always the clutch companies fault and it ends up costing a lot of money. ask how we know

[VRsixGLI]

only thing i recommend is a flow controll valve.

What does this do?

[VRsixGLI]

want to seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...... .

In class now pictures when I get home.

[VRsixGLI]

oh and i would def. use kevin for your ECU/wiring needs. shoot him an e-mail and pick his brain. he is always more then happy to talk to you about your build.

What is his username?

[XXX008XXX]

What does this do?

http://www.clutchmasters.com/custom/...000diagram.pdf

[VRsixGLI]

http://www.clutchmasters.com/custom/...000diagram.pdf

So it adjusts how aggressively the clutch grabs?

[VRsixGLI]

Update:

Removed the majority of the interior minus the door cards and clean everything.
Previous owner ran the rear fog light wire like an idiot so i rerouted it properly.
Also ran a 2 gauge wire to the trunk for the battery relocation.
Ran another 16 gauge wire to the trunk to tie into the switched 12v to run the fuel pump and water pump for the AWIC. I'll use the wire as the signal wire for a relay setup since the battery is in the trunk and is much easier then running heavier gauge wire all the way up front.
I figured that should be all the wiring I would need to run to the trunk so I reinstalled the interior after it had finished drying.
The I started putting the 12 valve harness into the car engine bay and getting the waterfall setup again. Then it got late so I quit. Should finish up some more wiring this weekend and then I just need to wait on the clutch and trans to be rebuilt. Then the real building begins.

Pictures...

Apparently the last owner had crabs? Found this guy dead under the carpet.



Interior Removed



Fog light wire



Fog light wire, Switched wire, and Battery cable



Another shot of the wires



Interior Pressure Washed and drying. Looks brand new



Sound deadening



Center console cleaned and ready to go back in



Interior all back in. Nice and clean. Car no longer smells like ****.





Laying the harness back in. Not going crazy with hiding wires for now. I just want the car to run. Next winter I will do a full wire tuck but for now it just has to look ok.





With the relay box on top of the battery. I plan on removing that since I will have the battery in the trunk so as far as wiring it back in I think I am going to hook all the wires right to the starter since they are right there and run the main battery cable right to the starter and another wire from the alternator right to the starter. Then all I would have to do is run three inline 30amp fuses to the plug that goes into the relay panel and I'm done.

Since I really am not interested in mounting my surge tank under the car and having my water box take up the whole trunk I am considering having a fabricator build this dual tank setup to fit in the spare tire well. Ideas?

[swagger rob]

nice

[vergessen wir es]

I haven't been under an R32 to say how similar a surge install would be, but I will say it is nice to have the pump noise outside the car. Plus the fuel lines are already outside the car. I guess if you are keeping your rear seats the noise won't be that bad. There is certainly no performance argument for one or the other; just preference.

I was gonna take a pic of my setup for you but figured it wouldn't apply since I am mk3 and you are R32.

[huichox4]

have you considered the surge tank from integrated engineering?? that will fit snug underneath the car for the fuel pump noise it will be one of the best options I think.

[XXX008XXX]

you do not want those pumps inside the car, you are going to kill yourself. the flow control valve does exactly that, and it works very well.

[gtizzle67]

What is his username?

lugnuts - username

www.lugtronic.com