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    Thread: HEP 2.5 manifold review

    1. Forum Sponsor Tom@APTuning's Avatar
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      11-04-2010 07:34 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Salty VW View Post
      A little pricey, no?

      I was expecting something roughly in between the price of a USRT 2.0L manifold and a C2 VR6 manifold.
      Apples and oranges

      The flanges are most of the cost which the the vr6 uses a stock lower and the 2.0 is no where near as complex

      It's very similar to the 24v which is also same cost
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    2. Member 4door1.8T's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 02:05 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by APTuning View Post
      Apples and oranges

      The flanges are most of the cost which the the vr6 uses a stock lower and the 2.0 is no where near as complex

      It's very similar to the 24v which is also same cost

      Thats a pretty fair price for a part with limited interest i just hope it will remain available for the people that are interested.
      The 2.0 and VR6 have been around forever so hopfully more and more enthusiasts will be building 2.5s to keep performance parts in the market.

    3. Forum Sponsor Tom@APTuning's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 09:50 AM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by JAK-RBT View Post
      Looks great. Just curious how difficult was it to get the abd cai to fit with the new tb location?
      It didnt, it would have needed severly modified. We just reused the piece with the pcv and sai fittings
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      11-05-2010 10:45 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by APTuning View Post
      It didnt, it would have needed severly modified. We just reused the piece with the pcv and sai fittings
      that's what I figured. And just to clarify, will the production model retain the stock TB location or no?

    5. Member Salty VW's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 11:52 AM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by 4door1.8T View Post
      The 2.0 and VR6 have been around forever so hopfully more and more enthusiasts will be building 2.5s to keep performance parts in the market.
      As long as VW keeps building the 2.5, it only stands to reason that more enthusiasts will adopt it. Especially now that the MK6 Jetta moves the 2.5 off the bottom rung of the engine ladder. In other words, psychologically, enthusiasts will no longer write off the 2.5 as a wimpy base engine but as a cheaper and more reliable all motor alternative to the 2.0T. The VR6 of this generation if you will. It's also reasonable to assume that as these cars become older and cheaper, a new kind of buyer will be interested in modding them.
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      11-05-2010 04:04 PM #76
      Thanks for the info Tom, good to know. Thanks for posting up that pic too haha, I figured someone snapped a few shots of it.
      http://s529.photobucket.com/albums/d...abbit%20build/
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      11-05-2010 04:07 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by Salty VW View Post
      enthusiasts will no longer write off the 2.5 as a wimpy base engine but as a cheaper and more reliable all motor alternative to the 2.0T.
      It took the VR6 Enthusiasts 10+ years to get that engine to the point it is at right now and that was due to the simple fact that the only other motor available in the MKIII platform was the 2.0 8V. If you wanted a fast volkswagen prior to 1999 , you modified a VR6 or you sold your FWD box and moved onto BMW.
      Fast forward a couple of years and the VR6 platform has hardly advanced....especially where the 24V is concerned. Expect the 2.5 motor (no matter how many chassis's it finds itself into) to follow the same route.
      With the 2.0 FSI and 1.8T 20V motor still around, it makes more business sense to invest $$ into developing products for those motors rather than the 2.5 motor. There are MORE 2.5 powered vehicles on North American roads than there are 2.0 FSI/TSI motors and yet there are maybe 15-20 of you in here with turbocharger/supercharged/whatever 2.5 motors.

      You have to understand guys who browse/post on these forums make up less than 1% of the general VW populous in there respective chassis. Enthusiasts will always right off the 2.5 motor as a wimpy base motor whether we want to accept it or not.
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    8. Member Salty VW's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 04:29 PM #78
      I get what you're sayin'. The interesting thing though is that if you look back at the MK3 8v (the base engine of that era) it had/has tons of parts available for it even though it makes little economical sense to modify that engine. In this case though, it makes a plenty of sens to modify a 2.5. You can get up to 2.0T stock crank horsepower for a lot less than you can purchase a GTI or GLI for. These engines respond so incredibly well to bolt on modifications for a naturally aspirated engine of their size.

      Another thing I find interesting is how few enthusiasts have adopted the 2.5 in comparison to the old MK3 8v. There used to be a boat load of MK3 8v guys runnin' around, and there's still a decent handful. But if you go to a big show, you can count the 2.5's on one hand. Perhaps this simply reflects a larger change in the enthusiast community as a whole. "Fast" definitely isn't what it used to be when I started playing with VW's 8 years ago.
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      11-05-2010 05:32 PM #79
      There really isnt that much out there for the MK3 if you keep it in comparison to the factory turbo cars. Just appears so as there are so many modified VR's.

      There are a couple intakes, couple exhausts, and chips. Cams for 8v really dont count as that carried over from mk2.

      There is really only one readily available turbo "kit" for either engine. Whereas for the 1.8t and 2.0t like INA mentioned, Im gonna guess about a dozen different companies most with multiple types of kits.

      As fun and cost effective as the 2.5 is the market just isnt big enough for the kind of support like you see on the factory turbo cars. Just like when I get customers upset when I tell them there is no software for their 2.8 V6.
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      11-05-2010 06:05 PM #80
      PM'd
      They're going to their house over there.
      You're not utilizing your education properly.

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      11-05-2010 07:08 PM #81
      even thou the thread has gone a bit away from its original intent, i must say:

      thats why it is so fun, unique and exotic to tune a 2.5.
      at the moment there are:
      less than 50 turbo 2.5s
      not many market products, which forces custom stuff
      not many plans which mean, develop yourself.

      i think that it will take many years and a lot of small companies to make the 2.5 a motor with as much mods as the 2.0T (fsi and TSI), and i think that it will never be able to be compared to a 1.8T. (1.8 neva loses!)

      but why should you be dissapointed? dont think out of the box... just make your own box and DRIVE IT!

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      11-05-2010 07:24 PM #82
      Greyt, I agree...I wanted the rabbit 2.5 and it is exactly what I wanted, its fun yet economical I can't wait to get chipped and later get an intake manifold but either way it is perfect for me...plus I have never been a big fan of boost

      Sent from my Droid Incredible
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    13. Member Salty VW's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 07:25 PM #83
      I don't want as many mods as a 2.0T, I just want a header, an affordable intake manifold, and a reflash... then I'm done... I think.

      Edit: I also want money to buy all this stuff.
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      11-05-2010 09:28 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by Salty VW View Post
      There used to be a boat load of MK3 8v guys runnin' around, and there's still a decent handful. .
      Thats because the 8V engine was (and still is) a motor Volkswagen has used since 1978! Turbo manifolds were available since 1984...most people on this forum were not even born then!
      Quote Originally Posted by Salty VW View Post
      an affordable intake manifold,
      If you want an intake manifold that is cast , SEM Motorsport made a prototype for Unitronic 2 years ago.
      Problem is we need a commitment from 50 people that are willing to wait 4-6 months after sending there deposits.
      Price for the manifold was set at retail for 899 USD.
      So how many of you would be willing to put down 500 USD and WAIT 4-6 months?
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      11-05-2010 10:01 PM #85
      before saying: get 50 people to put down $500... lol, lets get 50 2.5ers together! now, THATS hard.

    16. Member Salty VW's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 10:48 PM #86
      Even if you had 50 people interested, it would be nearly impossible to find 50 who were all ready to buy at the same time.

      I understand the casting process and the need for quantity though.
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      11-05-2010 10:54 PM #87
      ok I'm #1

      lol I doubt we would get past 15 people actually committed, willing to drop half a grand then wait half a year.
      They're going to their house over there.
      You're not utilizing your education properly.

    18. Forum Sponsor Tom@APTuning's Avatar
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      11-06-2010 10:44 AM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by TeamZleep View Post
      I'd pay 1k, and gladly wait 8-12 months. I really don't care about numbers, like you all said, there are less than 50 of us that actually take our motors seriously. I <3 my 2.5 to death, and I'm slowly taking it to the next level. It makes me happy, that's for damn sure... T-minus 14 days until it's torn down!!!

      For $1099 I can have one to you in about 3 days
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      11-09-2010 04:01 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by BluMagic View Post
      oh god.. i need that tune!
      hmmm maybe i do too!

      So APTuning, I've already got intake mani, fuel rail, header, downpipe, cat-back, etc. w/ a C2 Tune with cat and intake add-on. I put down 175whp with these mods. Are you saying the UM tune would get me ~30whp over the C2 tune (also done by Atwood)?

      If so, how do I get ahold of United Motorsport? (i can't find a # anywhere)

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      11-09-2010 04:09 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by motocaddy View Post
      hmmm maybe i do too!

      So APTuning, I've already got intake mani, fuel rail, header, downpipe, cat-back, etc. w/ a C2 Tune with cat and intake add-on. I put down 175whp with these mods. Are you saying the UM tune would get me ~30whp over the C2 tune (also done by Atwood)?

      If so, how do I get ahold of United Motorsport? (i can't find a # anywhere)
      hit up jeff... jefnes3

      i have to drive down to portland to get it. but he can tell you who has it nearest you
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      11-09-2010 04:29 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by BluMagic View Post
      hit up jeff... jefnes3
      thanks. is this jeff you speak of jeff atwood?

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      11-09-2010 04:30 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by motocaddy View Post
      hmmm maybe i do too!

      So APTuning, I've already got intake mani, fuel rail, header, downpipe, cat-back, etc. w/ a C2 Tune with cat and intake add-on. I put down 175whp with these mods. Are you saying the UM tune would get me ~30whp over the C2 tune (also done by Atwood)?

      If so, how do I get ahold of United Motorsport? (i can't find a # anywhere)
      Yes it would be a substantial gain.

      The only drawback is your location. Im not aware of anyone in that area so you would need to send us the ECU. (is it a United Motorsport manifold?)

      *edit: looked at your car and obviously isn't a UM manifold so I cant guarantee what the gains will be but should be def. be noticeable.
      Last edited by Tom@APTuning; 11-09-2010 at 04:33 PM.
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      11-09-2010 06:53 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Tom@APTuning View Post
      Yes it would be a substantial gain.

      The only drawback is your location. Im not aware of anyone in that area so you would need to send us the ECU. (is it a United Motorsport manifold?)

      *edit: looked at your car and obviously isn't a UM manifold so I cant guarantee what the gains will be but should be def. be noticeable.
      you guys gonna be at WinterJam or SoWo?

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      11-09-2010 08:39 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by motocaddy View Post
      you guys gonna be at WinterJam or SoWo?
      no sorry too far for us
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      11-10-2010 11:56 AM #95
      Pm'd about that last manifold

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      11-10-2010 12:53 PM #96
      I would really love to pick one of these up... I don't think that I am anywhere near a united dealer...could I ship to get the tune? Otherwise if I can't have it right now, then when can the rest of us regular guys pick these up and I mean on the regular basis...will they be made available? Please say yes. I will gladly boot apr for jeff's programming prowess
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      11-10-2010 01:07 PM #97
      They will most likely go into production but def no eta right now.
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      11-10-2010 06:30 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by motocaddy View Post
      thanks. is this jeff you speak of jeff atwood?
      yep thats his s/n
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      11-12-2010 12:49 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by Tom@APTuning View Post
      Sorry for a rough picture but it's the end of day and best quality I'm getting right now lol

      The wacky looking dyno is manifold with stock software

      The better one obviously is manifold with United Motorsport specific software.
      Pretty solid numbers.

      Really pricey, though.
      Last edited by kelchm; 11-12-2010 at 12:54 PM.

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      11-12-2010 12:53 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by kelchm View Post
      Pretty solid numbers.

      Really pricey, though.
      really? people don't know what it takes to make a mainfold. this one or any other. full CNC parts and crazy fab skills aren't cheap or easy to come by.
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      11-12-2010 12:55 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by nothing-leaves-stock View Post
      really? people don't know what it takes to make a mainfold. this one or any other. full CNC parts and crazy fab skills aren't cheap or easy to come by.
      I understand why it costs so much. Doesn't make it not expensive, though.

      I'm poor.

    32. 11-12-2010 01:52 PM #102
      Dollar per horsepower gained its a pretty good deal, just as good as chipping i would say.

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      11-13-2010 05:49 PM #103
      I even think chipping hardly holds a candle to this much of a jump...the gains are incredible...its expensive but id say worth it...I'd love to see what this plus some forced induction could produce...jeff has some crazy skill to pull numbers like that...boost has got to be insane...can't wait for mass production...its gonna change the 2.5 game for sure
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      11-16-2010 01:44 AM #104
      Here are some pics that I have had for a little while. I figured that there would have been some much earlier. But these look nice.



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      11-16-2010 08:04 AM #105
      still no stacks..hmmm
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