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    Thread: Slow but hopefully trusty 16Vg60 build

    1. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      1990 16VG60 Corrado on MS2 - Turbo diesel Grand Cherokee - SR5 4Runner
      10-24-2010 11:11 PM #1
      I just realized that this hybrid section exists so I've moving this over from the 16V forum. I've been plugging away at this thing on the side for a couple years now. Although I've had the car since 01 it's sat most of that time and I think I only put 25K miles on it, if that. I'm a pretty busy guy but I keep this car around for S&G's. I don't expect it to be all that fast. I just want something better than the low compression 8 valver and lets me tinker with Megasquirt. I'm done with the old 8V block and should complete the conversion by summer so I suppose this is a good time to start a build thread.

      I guess the ultimate goal is to have a reliable daily driver that keeps me entertained and is faster than my 4Runner.

      Chassis: 1990 Corrado
      Block: 9A bored to 83.5mm
      Pistons: J&E 9.5:1
      Rods: stock 9a
      Head: stock 2.0 9a
      Head gasket: stock
      Cams: stock
      Valves: stock
      Intake manifold: stock
      Throttle body: Automatic G60
      Intercooler: 4" PWR A/W IC
      Plumbing: 2.25"
      Water pump: Jabsco Centripuppy
      Bov / dv: stock G60 bypass
      Exhaust manifold: stock
      Supercharger: Rebuilt and ported by BBM
      Pulley size: 68mm
      Downpipe: stock
      Exhaust: stock
      Management: MS2 Extra with wasted spark
      Injectors: 36 lb Accel
      Spark plugs: TBD
      Flywheel: Lightened stock G60 ~ 12lb.
      Clutch: Clutchnet Sport with VR6 pressure plate
      Transmission: 02J hybrid - taller R&P and diesel 5th gear
      Differential: Peloquin LSD
      Shifter: Later O2J setup







      Since I've had the 8V crank bolt snap on me not once, or twice but THREE times I decided to do something different. So this time I put an ARP crank bolt in. Not sure how well it will work but if it snaps I'll have a good reason to do some head work. Though this head is actually very tight considering I don't know the mileage. Just 3-7% loss out of the valves when pressure tested at 90 PSI.

      So this ARP bolt is called ARP 207-2501 - ARP Harmonic Damper Bolts and available from Jegs at:
      http://www.jegs.com/i/ARP/070/207-2501/10002/-1

      And around it will go the modified ABA serp. pulley. I found a BBM one for a good price in the classifieds. I then continued to modify it as seen:





      The tooth wheel is a piece I got from "corvrman" on ebay. Price was $25 but for an extra $7 he turned the I.D. in it for me. I then had to turn the O.D. on the pulley. Design spec. for an interference fit would be .002" on diameter. But I know the machinist wimped out and put less in. If it wobbles I'll be pissed.

      I decided to go with the GM CS130 alternator. McGowan Starters and Alternators ("starter-alternator") on ebay sells them for $84 shipped. It's probably just another piece of chinese crap (I'll get to that later) but it's cheap and I didn't have to go to the store to pick it up.

      The brackets are really simple. If anyone wants to know the dimensions I can measure and post the drawings but I leave my calipers at work so you'll have to ask. I don't mind doing it but just need to know if inquiring minds want to know.









      Last edited by still_a_G; 08-10-2011 at 08:42 AM.

    2. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      10-24-2010 11:28 PM #2
      I did a little test to compare the backpressure of the PWR IC core. These guys don't even have a US website anymore so I think they're pulling out. I wanted to see if they're HP ratings are accurate. They have such a small frontal surface area I found it hard to believe that they support the air flow claims. So, a little megasquirt connection, powered by the stimulator, provides the MAP readings I need. The airflow is provided by a Husqvarna 125B, which is rated at 425 CFM full throttle. Waaayyyyy more than my 2.1 L G60 will ever see. Now I know this is a fan and not a compressor so it probably doesn't get that high in this test. But still, maybe like 300HP, can't remember.

      Atmospheric reading was 95.5 kPa or 13.85 PSI

      Max PWR IC at full throttle was 103.3 kPa or 14.98 PSI

      This is a little more than a 1 PSI pressure drop across the core. So I really expect to see much less at the air flow my engine will see. Out of curiosity I plugged the stock G60 IC up to see how much backpressure that has. Max reading was 103.8 or 15.1 PSI. Even though the surface area is larger, the inlets and outlets are horrible on this thing. Hence, why it flows less than a core half its size.

      Food for thought I guess.

      This is sealed by some plastic cement.


      Test bench


      G60 hooked up


      Tight squeeze for the coupler but it works

    3. Member kainoasun's Avatar
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      3 G60 Corrados, 9a Rabbit GTi, Mk 1 Rocco, 1 ABF clone G60 16v build, Thanks BBM!!
      10-25-2010 02:18 AM #3
      Dude this is so funny...we are doing the exact same build and have the exact same freekin car, same color and almost the same wheels!! Hahaha. Classic. Ill post some pix when I can. Jason a.k.a Kainoasun. Yeah G!!

    4. 10-25-2010 10:10 PM #4
      looks great

      i'm watching this one

    5. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      10-26-2010 06:31 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by kainoasun View Post
      Dude this is so funny...we are doing the exact same build and have the exact same freekin car, same color and almost the same wheels!! Hahaha. Classic. Ill post some pix when I can. Jason a.k.a Kainoasun. Yeah G!!
      Can't wait to see it brudda. Mahalo!

    6. Member BellCityDubber's Avatar
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      10-27-2010 09:57 AM #6
      Hey! Nice build, thanks for directing me to it!
      I'm in the process of building a Twincharged 16v-G60-T.... I dont like a few of the things going on in my build. Things like Belt routing, type of alternator and I want to try and get by the g60 belt tensioner. I was looking at making a bracket for the g60 belt tensioner that would bolt off the head and space out to the tensioner to bolt into. But that would still leave me with 3 or 4 idler pullies and an unnecessary length belt.

      I really like your setup!!! quick. Simple, not alot of idlers, and the tensioner doesn't bolt off the head like the g60 tensioner would on this hybrid.

      My questions are below

      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      I decided to go with the GM CS130 alternator. McGowan Starters and Alternators ("starter-alternator") on ebay sells them for $84 shipped. It's probably just another piece of chinese crap (I'll get to that later) but it's cheap and I didn't have to go to the store to pick it up.

      The brackets are really simple. If anyone wants to know the dimensions I can measure and post the drawings but I leave my calipers at work so you'll have to ask. I don't mind doing it but just need to know if inquiring minds want to know.









      What are you using for the tensioner? is that a 1.8t serp belt tensioner? what's the part number and what is it from? and how did you manage to attach it to the g60 mounting bracket? is it attached to the original tensioner pivot point?

      I see you decided to go with a GM CS130 alternator, it looks like quite a good fit. I was wondering about putting an alternator below the charger, I was looking at ABA alternators, Fox alternator (the ears are different from golf/jetta 1.8 8v alternators and seem to work) and as a last resort I was thinking of customizing a chevy sprint/suzuki swift alternator (as it would fit in the A/C Compressor recess) But I like your method much better.

      As the CS130 is an easy to find alternator, it would be easy to find, rebuild or replace. Could you please take measurements of the brackets you're using for your alternator setup and post them?

      Thanks

      Phil

    7. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      10-27-2010 12:39 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      Hey! Nice build, thanks for directing me to it!
      I'm in the process of building a Twincharged 16v-G60-T.... I dont like a few of the things going on in my build. Things like Belt routing, type of alternator and I want to try and get by the g60 belt tensioner. I was looking at making a bracket for the g60 belt tensioner that would bolt off the head and space out to the tensioner to bolt into. But that would still leave me with 3 or 4 idler pullies and an unnecessary length belt.

      I really like your setup!!! quick. Simple, not alot of idlers, and the tensioner doesn't bolt off the head like the g60 tensioner would on this hybrid.

      My questions are below



      What are you using for the tensioner? is that a 1.8t serp belt tensioner? what's the part number and what is it from? and how did you manage to attach it to the g60 mounting bracket? is it attached to the original tensioner pivot point?

      I see you decided to go with a GM CS130 alternator, it looks like quite a good fit. I was wondering about putting an alternator below the charger, I was looking at ABA alternators, Fox alternator (the ears are different from golf/jetta 1.8 8v alternators and seem to work) and as a last resort I was thinking of customizing a chevy sprint/suzuki swift alternator (as it would fit in the A/C Compressor recess) But I like your method much better.

      As the CS130 is an easy to find alternator, it would be easy to find, rebuild or replace. Could you please take measurements of the brackets you're using for your alternator setup and post them?

      Thanks

      Phil
      Hey Phil. The tensioner is from a 98 Ford Escort. The only concern I have at this point is if it will provide enough belt pressure to keep the charger from slipping. I don't plan on going above 9 psi of boost so I hope by staying at low pressure, it will be OK.

      Spring loaded tensioners serve 3 purposes: to dampen out A/C clutch engagement, to compensate for belt stretch over time, and to compensate for belt stretch after you flog the engine and heat the belt up. That's pretty much it.

      The backside looks like this:



      I recently put the top pin on the left side of that vertical casting web that stretches from the pivot point to the clearance hole at the top of the G60 charger. I rotated the tensioner with a torque wrench to see what the working angle is like. It appears that placing the top pin against the web will be a good location. BUT, since the web isn't exactly flat, all of the force was placed at the very tip of the pin. And as I maxxed out the rotation, SNAP, the pin popped off (the tensioner holds between 20 ft-lb and it broke at 50 ft-lb of torque). Cheap chinese crap. I will put a dremel tool to the web to make it flat to prevent that from happening again. I'll also put a bolt at the location of the bottom pin. The bolt will be a socket head so that the bottom pin has a place to grab on to. I guess by that test I determined a reference point that I don't want to exceed in running conditions.

      To get it to fit like I have it in the pictures, you have to run a 9/16 drill bit through the middle. But that's a little loose. I'll get a slightly smaller bit for the replacement tensioner. Slipped on it lines up perfect with the belt. Should really be the simplest tensioner install out there!

      I also considered a Celica tensioner:


      But I found that the top of the spring mount would be a few inches above the top of the charger bracket. I wanted to avoid fabricating an extension piece so I didn't go with that one.

      The CS130 is just 8 lbs! A pretty small package and I think slightly smaller in diameter compared to the ABA. I know that in the Corrado the ABA rubs the radiator when the engine rocks. I hope mine doesn't as is but I can actually move it in a little more if I have to. I'll get those dimensions for you. In the meantime here's a couple more pictures:




      Escort routing:
      Last edited by still_a_G; 11-11-2010 at 11:54 PM.

    8. Member BellCityDubber's Avatar
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      10-27-2010 08:13 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      Hey Phil. The tensioner is from a 98 Ford Escort. The only concern I have at this point is if it will provide enough belt pressure to keep the charger from slipping. I don't plan on going above 9 psi of boost so I hope by staying at low pressure, it will be OK.

      Spring loaded tensioners serve 3 purposes: to dampen out A/C clutch engagement, to compensate for belt stretch over time, and to compensate for belt stretch after you flog the engine and heat the belt up. That's pretty much it.
      I recently put the top pin on the left side of that vertical casting web that stretches from the pivot point to the clearance hole at the top of the G60 charger. I rotated the tensioner with a torque wrench to see what the working angle is like. It appears that placing the top pin against the web will be a good location. BUT, since the web isn't exactly flat, all of the force was placed at the very tip of the pin. And as I maxxed out the rotation, SNAP, the pin popped off (the tensioner holds between 20 ft-lb and it broke at 50 ft-lb of torque). Cheap chinese crap. I will put a dremel tool to the web to make it flat to prevent that from happening again. I'll also put a bolt at the location of the bottom pin. The bolt will be a socket head so that the bottom pin has a place to grab on to. I guess by that test I determined a reference point that I don't want to exceed in running conditions.

      To get it to fit like I have it in the pictures, you have to run a 9/16 drill bit through the middle. But that's a little loose. I'll get a slightly smaller bit for the replacement tensioner. Slipped on it lines up perfect with the belt. Should really be the simplest tensioner install out there!

      But I found that the top of the spring mount would be a few inches above the top of the charger bracket. I wanted to avoid fabricating an extension piece so I didn't go with that one.

      The CS130 is just 8 lbs! A pretty small package and I think slightly smaller in diameter compared to the ABA. I know that in the Corrado the ABA rubs the radiator when the engine rocks. I hope mine doesn't as is but I can actually move it in a little more if I have to. I'll get those dimensions for you. In the meantime here's a couple more pictures:
      Thanks! That's fantastic!

      I was wondering what my other options for belt tensioners were going to be. Although that does look quite close to the supercharger pulley, and will it fit infront of the intermediate pulley and timing belt (I don't doubt you, but it's kinda hard to tell in the pics)

      Also, with that waterpump pulley (v-belt from an ABA for mock-up?) , will the tensioner fit with a vr6 waterpump pulley? it looks pretty far down, but I think that's also because of the super long belt you have for mock-up. (yes, I noticed the vice grips in the back to hold the slack) at least ya got a good measurement for belt length...

      the tensioner looked like a 1.8t tensioner. I see it's used in a number of fords. I'll probably use that as it seems like the easier solution. I've seen people discuss the 3 purposes (AC clutching / Stretching / Heating) before, but since we're not dealing with AC... I like the idea of a spring loaded tensioner for the g-lader. I've seen a few builds using timing belt tensioners and it just doesn't seem right to me. and I don't like the idea of making a bracket for the g60 tensioner as it doesn't appear to be the best or easiest solution.

      I'm going to have to take a look at the webbing in the casting, but I think I know what you mean. since it comes up on an angle, the top of the pin rests on the only part of the webing that touches the pin (on top)

      Wouldn't taking a small diameter sanding disk (for a dremel) work to make a recess in the webbing that fits the diameter of the pin? so it has more surface area to hold? (instead of just having a flat recess?) And as for the bottom pin, is there a place for a bolt to thread into which aligns with the bottom pin of the ford tensioner?

      With 50 ft-lb of torque, I think that's more than plenty for a spring loaded tensioner. but I'm no engineer... so.... who knows.

      and as for the hole. I have a nice drill press, so drilling is easy peazy. but you say 9/16ths is a little loose (large?) maybe a 35/64ths or a 17/32nds drill bit would work?

      Yeah, if you could get me some measurements, or more pictures (side, top, & edge views) of the alternator attachment brackets (upper and lower) what size holes were drilled, and what threads are needed that would be a huge relief!

      Thanks a ton!

    9. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      10-28-2010 06:27 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      Thanks! That's fantastic!

      I was wondering what my other options for belt tensioners were going to be. Although that does look quite close to the supercharger pulley, and will it fit infront of the intermediate pulley and timing belt (I don't doubt you, but it's kinda hard to tell in the pics)
      Yup, clears in all directions.

      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      Also, with that waterpump pulley (v-belt from an ABA for mock-up?) , will the tensioner fit with a vr6 waterpump pulley? it looks pretty far down, but I think that's also because of the super long belt you have for mock-up. (yes, I noticed the vice grips in the back to hold the slack) at least ya got a good measurement for belt length...
      No, with this arrangement, the water pump needs the V-belt. The VR6 pulley would get in the way. I'm also using power steering so the WP and PS pump will be on the V-belt.


      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      the tensioner looked like a 1.8t tensioner. I see it's used in a number of fords. I'll probably use that as it seems like the easier solution. I've seen people discuss the 3 purposes (AC clutching / Stretching / Heating) before, but since we're not dealing with AC... I like the idea of a spring loaded tensioner for the g-lader. I've seen a few builds using timing belt tensioners and it just doesn't seem right to me. and I don't like the idea of making a bracket for the g60 tensioner as it doesn't appear to be the best or easiest solution.
      I know what you mean. And I don't see any reason for keeping the stock tensioner if one in a smaller package will do the job. A spring is a spring.



      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      I'm going to have to take a look at the webbing in the casting, but I think I know what you mean. since it comes up on an angle, the top of the pin rests on the only part of the webing that touches the pin (on top)

      Wouldn't taking a small diameter sanding disk (for a dremel) work to make a recess in the webbing that fits the diameter of the pin? so it has more surface area to hold? (instead of just having a flat recess?) And as for the bottom pin, is there a place for a bolt to thread into which aligns with the bottom pin of the ford tensioner?
      Glad you understood what I was trying to say! Yes, a dremel should work just fine to correct that spot. And I think the bolt for the bottom pin can just go through a clearance hole. I don't think I have to thread it. There might be room for a nut on the backside of the bracket. I'll have to check again.



      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      With 50 ft-lb of torque, I think that's more than plenty for a spring loaded tensioner. but I'm no engineer... so.... who knows.
      Yeah, I'm not even sure at this point. I think that with the 2 pins safely secured, I will shoot for a belt length that puts the tensioner between a 40-50 ft*lb torque load. If I find someone with an Escort I'll throw a torque wrench at their tensioner so see what it operates at for reference.


      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      and as for the hole. I have a nice drill press, so drilling is easy peazy. but you say 9/16ths is a little loose (large?) maybe a 35/64ths or a 17/32nds drill bit would work?
      I'll get a measurement on that pivot shaft, I can't remember exactly what it was. It doesn't matter if it's a little loose though. With the tensioner bolted at the end (with a correctly shaped washer) and the pins secured, there's no reason why it would need to have a tight fit around the pivot pin.



      Quote Originally Posted by BellCityDubber View Post
      Yeah, if you could get me some measurements, or more pictures (side, top, & edge views) of the alternator attachment brackets (upper and lower) what size holes were drilled, and what threads are needed that would be a huge relief!

      Thanks a ton!
      I'll see what I can do.

    10. Member BellCityDubber's Avatar
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      10-28-2010 01:44 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      Yup, clears in all directions.
      I went and took a shot with what I had laying around the garage.... and yea, it looks like it'll clear just fine.... here's some pics




      Those first two pics are using a passat 1.8t tensioner
      the next few are a golf 1.8t tensioner




      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      No, with this arrangement, the water pump needs the V-belt. The VR6 pulley would get in the way. I'm also using power steering so the WP and PS pump will be on the V-belt.
      I'm now begining to wonder if the ford tensioner is longer. I'm building mine using a VR waterpump pulley and no P/S & A/C. I would think with less slack on the belt, that it would fit with the tensioner being pulled back a bit more.


      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      Glad you understood what I was trying to say! Yes, a dremel should work just fine to correct that spot. And I think the bolt for the bottom pin can just go through a clearance hole. I don't think I have to thread it. There might be room for a nut on the backside of the bracket. I'll have to check again.

      here's a few pictures of the bracket... just for prosperity's sake



      So are you using the pivot hole with the pivot punched out? or with the pivot left in? I would presume it's punched out so that your pins on the tensioner have something to hold onto, and you want to put a bolt in the old idler spot so the lower pin has something to rest against? that's what I'm assuming anyways.


      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      Yeah, I'm not even sure at this point. I think that with the 2 pins safely secured, I will shoot for a belt length that puts the tensioner between a 40-50 ft*lb torque load. If I find someone with an Escort I'll throw a torque wrench at their tensioner so see what it operates at for reference.
      That's too bad, we used to have an escort zx2 and a focus, and IIRC they both used this tensioner :S damn.... I wonder who has those cars now....


      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      I'll get a measurement on that pivot shaft, I can't remember exactly what it was. It doesn't matter if it's a little loose though. With the tensioner bolted at the end (with a correctly shaped washer) and the pins secured, there's no reason why it would need to have a tight fit around the pivot pin.
      and just to give ya some insight.. here's my engine....



    11. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      10-28-2010 11:48 PM #11
      Well those tensioners would require a bit more imagination to mount as they require a particular mounting surface. And even if you made a mounting surface to bolt to, you wouldn't be able to relieve tension with the stock 3/8" square at the top as it's facing the bracket.

      I don't have the stock pivot shaft pressed out, that's why the tensioner I.D. needs to be drilled out with a *roughly* 9/16" bit: To fit on the pivot shaft. Look at my pictures again, you can see the pivot shaft sticking out of the tensioner hole. To hold it down all that is needed is some correctly sized washers, which I will detail later.
      Last edited by still_a_G; 08-10-2011 at 09:31 AM.

    12. Member BellCityDubber's Avatar
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      10-29-2010 03:56 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      Well those tensioners would require a bit more imagination to mount as they require a particular mounting surface. And even if you made a mounting surface to bolt to, you wouldn't be able to relieve tension with the stock 3/8" square at the top as it's facing the bracket.
      Yup, I realize those issues. I just went to the garage to see what I could do with what I had on hand... you know what they say... "push with the **** ya got..."
      the passat tensioner's 3/8ths adjuster faces the bracket, but the golf/jetta tensioner does not. I may be able to get by with a modified g/j 1.8t/2.0L tensioner....


      Quote Originally Posted by still_a_G View Post
      I don't have the stock pivot shaft pressed out, that's why the tensioner I.D. needs to be drilled out with a *roughly* 9/16" bit: To fit on the pivot shaft. Look at my pictures again, you can see the pivot shaft sticking out of the tensioner hole. To hold it down all that is needed is some correctly sized washers, which I will detail later.
      Yes, I noticed that you had left the pivot in as I was posting the last set of pictures.... "something doesn't look right, it's not like mine..." but I didn't exactly know what it was, or if you used a longer bolt or washers behind it. but leaving the pressed in pivot pin makes a lot more sense (duh... I tend to forget to think sometimes....)

      What I may do before going to get the ford tensioner would be to try to modify the golf/jetta 1.8t/2.0L tensioner... take off the 3 bolt mounting points and make the rear mounting surface more flush.... and maybe have a friend of mine use the metal from the mounting bolt holes to have it welded on to where the tensioner needs to bolt up to an existing hole on the g60 s/c bracket. (not really ideal - and sort of one off.. and tough to re-create if it brakes...) but I'll try "re-cycling" parts before I have to purchase something

    13. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      10-30-2010 08:32 PM #13
      Haven't had any time to work on the engine and right now I'm waiting for dinner. How bout I post some pictures. Everyone likes pictures. Not related to the engine but oh well.

      So the wheels are 16x8" BBS RF's (Design 5000) found on Mercedes'es'ess's'. The bolt pattern is 5x112 with a +32 ET . So I converted the car to 5x100 and more.....

      Using adapters in the front was not an option due to the the fact that most reputable adapters are 20mm as the thinnest option. That would have been a +12 ET in the front on 8" wide. Not cool. So while I did use adapters for the rear to go from x100 to x112, the fronts had to be redrilled.


      Here's a VR6 rear disc with an adapter on it, it fits on the G60 without any mods. It's from Fearless Fred Goeske / wheeladapter.com / made in the USA:


      Fits nicely on the wheel:


      The I.D.'s you see here are the wheel hub, next step is the adapter hub ring, then finally the I.D. of the rear disc.




      Here's the front G60 hub with the 5x100 bolt pattern drilled into it. Couldn't find some aftermarket ones easily.

      Test fit on the wheel:



      And here's the wheel re-drilled and a 6061 hub ring pressed in for extra structural integrity and centerizability:




      On the car. After I got it on I actually added a 10mm spacer in the front because the offsets were so different.

      Last edited by still_a_G; 10-31-2010 at 08:29 AM.

    14. Member thatcrazylaxdude's Avatar
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      10-31-2010 02:50 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by 35i 2000 View Post
      looks great

      i'm watching this one
      x2.
      Ain't nobody dope as me, I'm dressed, so fresh, so clean, so fresh and so clean clean.

      '84 GTI Revival


    15. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      11-03-2010 10:36 PM #15
      So as far as the alternator brackets go it's pretty simple and easy to fabricate. I'm too lazy to do much fabricating, I'd rather pay someone else. But as you can see below, there's not much to it. The most critical thing in the process is getting the alt. pulley to line up with the supercharger. I started by getting the top rectangle mount made to order. There's not much plate material out there that will be this size so you may have to be creative if you don't have a machinist do it.

      The thickness is what determines where the pulley ends up. On mine it is .550":




      After getting that mounted, I measured the pad to pad difference for the bottom mount. I needed 1.208" spacing. But I forgot that the PS pump bracket must go under this so I will have to reduce this by .520" to accommodate the bracket:



      As you can see, I left some room between the alternator and the G60 bracket. I recommend test fitting yourself and and seeing what works for you.




      The rear mount will be even more simple and I haven't made it yet.

    16. Member Josiah@SuperStanceStars's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 09:18 AM #16
      good god

    17. Member BellCityDubber's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 01:37 PM #17
      Hey! Sorry for the lateness of my reply....
      Thanks for the dimensions of the brackets for the CS 130 alt! that's a huge help!

      I don't mean to threadjack at all. I figured since you inspired me to change the tensioner, I'd share my progress
      here's my 2nd take at mocking up an upgraded tensioner.... I used the lower idler bolt hole as it was an easier fit for the pulley offset using the g/j mk4 2.0/1.8t tensioner





      I hope there's enough "swing" to get a small enough belt to clear, and that it tensions without interfering with something. I think the pulley offset is good, but I'm not sure if there's enough material there butt-up against the webbing. I can pull the tensioner all the way out without incident, but I'm wondering about operational loads. I may have a buddy of mine weld up some spare aluminum to where it sits on the webbing of the bracket... but so far I think it's getting there.... not as refined as the ford one.. but I'm a horrbily cheap bugger

    18. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      11-06-2010 02:58 PM #18
      Hmmm, yeah, it looks like it might interfere with the belt on the other side of the pulley. And even under tension you may end up with a lot of belt wrap. The engineering standard is 180 degrees of wrap, no more, no less, for various reasons. Tension is similar, you want just enough to prevent slipping, no more and no less.

      You actually want to avoid tension, wrap and direction changes in belt routings. The more you have the more HP you lose to friction.

    19. Member kda33's Avatar
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      11-06-2010 11:52 PM #19
      Okay this is a ton of useful information. Now I have a question for the water pump pulley. I have the VR6 pulley on my setup right now. What if this tensioner was to be rotated a little bit more when mounting it, would or could it be still used with the VR6 WP Pulley?

    20. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      11-07-2010 09:54 AM #20
      Yeah, I suppose so. It wouldn't be ideal but physically possible I think. I'm just using the stock water pump I had on my G60. I know it looks grimey but it only has 15K on it.

      The accessories drag about 3 HP each so I'd like to have the water pump, alternator and power steering on their own belt but the alternator will have to be on the serp. belt. Can't avoid it.

      Having the ability to add a second low tension belt is a gift, not something to be avoided.

    21. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      11-11-2010 11:35 PM #21
      Got a beautiful piece of jig plate cut to size for $20! It will be my block off but I will also put the rear bracket on top of it. I am not sure if I will face the bracket to accommodate the thickness or oval out the holes that meet with the charger. One thing is for sure: I will not run my charger without both rear brackets. Doing so is a failure waiting to happen.




    22. Member kainoasun's Avatar
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      11-13-2010 06:35 PM #22
      They are getting re-finished and I just got the entire car re-sprayed same exact color with tons of clear.

      these pix are ancient....I just used them to get body/paint estimates. I'll post the finished body soon. JK

      http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o...t=DSC00501.jpg

    23. Member kainoasun's Avatar
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      11-13-2010 06:41 PM #23
      [QUOTE=still_a_G;68461750]Got a beautiful piece of jig plate cut to size for $20! It will be my block off but I will also put the rear bracket on top of it. I am not sure if I will face the bracket to accommodate the thickness or oval out the holes that meet with the charger. One thing is for sure: I will not run my charger without both rear brackets. Doing so is a failure waiting to happen.

      Is the BBM block off plate ok for this application? I was gonna use their (BBM) block off plate and machine my G-Lader tail bracket until it all bolted up....

    24. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      11-13-2010 10:23 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by kainoasun
      Is the BBM block off plate ok for this application? I was gonna use their (BBM) block off plate and machine my G-Lader tail bracket until it all bolted up....
      Yeah, I thought about that one. But NLS makes a similar block off that's thinner and better suited for the application for that reason. I was going to get theirs if I couldn't get my guy to make one for cheap. I just gotta put clearance holes in it and thread it for a NPT fitting so it can breath. Easy work I don't mind doing myself. The bracket looks like a pain to machine so I will take it to Yoda and bear gifts (a case of beer) and hope he does it for free.


    25. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      12-22-2010 08:54 PM #26
      Holy guacamole. I have a reason to update. My man at work was afraid of the rear charger bracket. Too abstract. I took it to Yoda and he reported 45 minutes of setup tapping and shimming. Apparently it was placed on the table like so and a long end mill swiped it down. I asked for .275" to be taken off. .250" for the plate and .025" for gasketry.



      As you can see here, without a gasket the bolts are off-center. But who cares, it will work!



      Pictures!








      Next step is to get this threaded in the plate and a clearance hole thru the bracket.
      Last edited by still_a_G; 12-24-2010 at 09:30 AM.

    26. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      12-22-2010 08:57 PM #27
      Oh yeah, the hole there, I had to do some searching but finally found a 35mm plug from Advance Auto ONLINE it's a Dorman part #02523. Fits perfect.

    27. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      12-29-2010 11:05 PM #28
      The uh side coolant port had some challenges for me that I was not aware of. They are primarily because I didn't want to use an adapter. First of all, the top-left hole is very close to the sensor port so a regular bolt can't be used, the bolt head interferes with the plastic housing. And secondly, the sensor connector is too tall to fit in this location.

      Here, you can see how close the sensor is to the head casting. It shouldn't be a problem to cut the connector down though.


      For the hole in the top-left location, I found that a NPT plug is necessary. A straight thread set-screw won't seal for the long term. An interference fit is required (via tapered threads). You will have to chase the hole with a 1/8" NPT tap. This is very easy because the stock hole is 10mm x 1.0, which is very similar similar to a 1/8" NPT thread. The stock hole has 25.4 threads per inch where the 1/8" NPT standard is 27 threads per inch.

      The hole in the bottom-left location can just take a 10mm x 1.0 bolt with a compression washer to seal it.


      Since I'm using Megasquirt, I put a GM coolant temp sensor in the top-right location. This one is from a Saturn. AC DELCO PN: #2131138 Saturn SW1 CLT Sensor. The thread for this is also 1/8" NPT so you will have to chase this hole as well if you want it to work properly. Some people just force the 1/8 NPT into the 10mm x 1.0 holes. I wouldn't advise that but I won't say it doesn't work.




      So to re-cap. The top-left hole needs to be re-threaded. Just make sure to check the thread engagement of the plug as you are tapping it. A proper seal will require a few threads to be force fit. So you DO NOT want to tap too deep. You will leak. Not really hard to do if you pay attention and just take a few seconds to check.

    28. 01-11-2011 12:57 PM #29
      awesome thread


    29. 03-14-2011 01:02 PM #30
      im sent

    30. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      03-16-2011 02:16 PM #31
      I like what you have done with that Escort tensioner. When I was designing mine, I had a few radial torsional tensioners from various cars in hand, but none were even close to what I needed, so I designed around the G60 tensioner/dampener setup.

      I made mounts and relocated my tensioner pivot shaft backward from the G60 bracket to get more wrap around the crank and clear some other idlers and such (i.e. my config is much different) However, due to some very tight clearance issues between the Frame rail due to this relocation, I am strongly considering looking back into using a radial unit.

      Can you tell me the distance from centerline to centerline?

      Thanks,
      S

    31. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      03-16-2011 10:34 PM #32
      Looks about 3.675". I was just about to drill the requisite hole in the charger bracket so that I can put a second pin stop in it. But the fiance is giving me all kinds of crap for working in the garage too much. I've just been repairing vehicles so it's BS but that's life.

    32. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      03-17-2011 10:01 AM #33
      Thanks! BTW, I know how it is with other obligations. That's the reason my build has taken so long..

    33. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      03-17-2011 10:39 PM #34
      Got a few minutes downstairs....Drilled the clearance hole for the bolt.

      That's a 1/2-13 SHCS. The nut is the perfect thickness t to meet up with the pin. One of the hex flats serves as the bottom stopper.

      Here is the tensioner in the relaxed position:




      Here's the head of the bolt:



      Here's the nut of the bolt:



      Here's how the pin hits at the bottom:



      And then at the top:


    34. Member still_a_G's Avatar
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      03-17-2011 10:47 PM #35
      Here's some more pictures of the block off plate. This is an aluminum 1/2" NPT to 3/4" hose fitting. I chose aluminum because I can solder it to the plate if it starts to leak.

      I ground down one of the corners, bolted them together then put a pilot hole in the middle:




      Then took the bracket off and put a larger clearance hole in it:



      Then I put a larger hole in the plate and threaded it for the fitting:






      You can see the rear alternator bracket in this one:

      Last edited by still_a_G; 03-17-2011 at 10:51 PM.

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