A TCL First? '67 Rolls Royce project thread...

[ValveCoverGasket]

So what's the car like? Build quality, door thunk, seat comfort, etc.? I've never been close up to a Rolls of this vintage.

doors all close like a bank vault, the leather is amazing (though the color is slightly worn in some of the inner seams on the drivers seat). the wood work is insane and where it still remains - mostly on the vertical surfaces - the factory lacquer is incredibly rich.
rear leg room is awesome and this is a short wheel base example, and the seats are really comfortable. though to be honest ive spent more time under the car than in it
carpets are really plush. im really interested to see how quiet it ends up being on the road.

[ValveCoverGasket]

That car has those awful big bumpers on it while a proper 1967 should have the much more attractive chrome bumpers. They should look for the proper chrome ones - so much better! Call Tony Handler or Oregon Crewe Cutters, or perhaps www.britishpartsco.com for a set. Also keep in mind that this being a RHD, it's ultimately worth about 20% less than a comparable LHD model in the 'States. One should never, EVER treat a Shadow or T-Type as an investment. They're virtually worthless.


With that outta the way, while the trans is out, call Alber's Bentley Zionsville in Zionsville, IN with the following list of parts:

Trans overhaul kit (billed out piece by piece, welcome to Rolls ownership!)

Rebuilt Accumulators

Accumulator check valve kits

Caliper seals

High pressure brake hoses, all around.

That's a good start.

They're going to sell you lots of little washers and seals that go with each of those jobs - don't skimp out and get everything they tell you you need. This is not an easy car to recommission, the braking and suspension systems are complex and expensive to rebuild. A car that sits is a car that dies. So good luck.

And do us all a favor, when you get her up and running (worth it if you are going to keep the car) don't put the F@cking Grey Poupon in the console. Or the stupid Chauffeur's cap. That's just seriously un-clever. And don't rent it out for weddings, that's trite. Just drive it, it's an experience like no other car in the world.

if youll look through the original post, im fairly certain this thing was "federalized" by someone in the 70s. youre right though its missing the much nicer looking 67 mirrors and bumpers... prices on those are fairly high (based on my quick search on ebay) but they would look really nice, though id rather have it driving/shifting well than looking nice on jackstands haha

definitely not an investment, more like a unique learning opportunity

weve got the trans covered i think, but thanks for the heads up on shops - ive been having somewhat of a hard time finding many choices with where to buy parts.

the self leveling suspension works as the rear doesnt seem to sag when the car is running. the front has already had the leveling removed and updated with the later model front struts/springs... so... less of that crap to go wrong i suppose.

the grey poupon was a joke from the PO

[GrayMarauder]

Hot dollar. Count me in for end result.

[geofftii2002]

if youll look through the original post, im fairly certain this thing was "federalized" by someone in the 70s. youre right though its missing the much nicer looking 67 mirrors and bumpers... prices on those are fairly high (based on my quick search on ebay) but they would look really nice, though id rather have it driving/shifting well than looking nice on jackstands haha

definitely not an investment, more like a unique learning opportunity

weve got the trans covered i think, but thanks for the heads up on shops - ive been having somewhat of a hard time finding many choices with where to buy parts.

the self leveling suspension works as the rear doesnt seem to sag when the car is running. the front has already had the leveling removed and updated with the later model front struts/springs... so... less of that crap to go wrong i suppose.

the grey poupon was a joke from the PO

That's good that it's had some suspension work done already! Alber's Bentley is one of the best sources for parts in the country - they're one of the oldest RR dealers in the US and they know these cars inside out, upside down. Don't be afraid to call Chris, Rusty or Greg for advice should you need it. They could even help with finding a proper trans shop for you, if you still need. They're top notch guys. Tell 'em Black Horse Garage sent you. =)

I'm glad you're eyes are open enough to treat this as an experience and not an investment - that's what these cars need! They're really cool cars, and there's nothing quite like driving a proper Rolls Royce. It's a totally different experience!

Oh - make sure the "brake pressure" warning lights are BOTH out before you put in into drive! It's quite a ride otherwise!

[VadGTI]

And do us all a favor, when you get her up and running (worth it if you are going to keep the car) don't put the F@cking Grey Poupon in the console. Or the stupid Chauffeur's cap. That's just seriously un-clever. And don't rent it out for weddings, that's trite. Just drive it, it's an experience like no other car in the world.

I guess you'd frown upon using one to give tours of Hollywood with, then?

[KahviVW]

That was a revolutionary car for RR at the time. It has so much more presence than almost anything on the road today.

[LA7VJetta]

in4later

[ValveCoverGasket]

That's good that it's had some suspension work done already! Alber's Bentley is one of the best sources for parts in the country - they're one of the oldest RR dealers in the US and they know these cars inside out, upside down. Don't be afraid to call Chris, Rusty or Greg for advice should you need it. They could even help with finding a proper trans shop for you, if you still need. They're top notch guys. Tell 'em Black Horse Garage sent you. =)

I'm glad you're eyes are open enough to treat this as an experience and not an investment - that's what these cars need! They're really cool cars, and there's nothing quite like driving a proper Rolls Royce. It's a totally different experience!

Oh - make sure the "brake pressure" warning lights are BOTH out before you put in into drive! It's quite a ride otherwise!

in addition to the front suspension being swapped out there are a number of new looking brake soft lines throughout the car. whoever took out the front leveling suspension still left in all of the old hydro valves and lines that used to run to it, so thatll be removed as part of the engine cleanup i think...

ill be sure to bug those guys when it comes time to start replacing other things. ive got an email in to crewe cutters already for some of the misc. stuff were missing under the hood, so well see what he comes back to me with on price/availability.

the trans appears to be a cadillac hydramatic copy... so weve found a local antique gm trans guy who comes highly recommended.

and i think for what we paid for it we can still break even when it comes time to sell

[epbrown]

the grey poupon was a joke from the PO

I had the packets of Grey Poupon in my 1966 - I'd throw them at - er, to - peons that yelled the line from the commercial.

[geofftii2002]

the trans appears to be a cadillac hydramatic copy... so weve found a local antique gm trans guy who comes highly recommended.

Just be aware that if it needs any internal parts, they likely have to come from RR. The trans is indeed a Hydramatic built under license, but RR replaced many of the cast internal components with machined parts - so the tolerances are much tighter in the proper Roller units. Hopefully it's just a basic rebuild and nothing major is needed, though.

And yes, Vad, I would frown upon one being used for hollywood tours! I'm a snobby purist when it comes to my Rollers!

[ValveCoverGasket]

thats what i figured. i noticed fatsco sells all the rebuild soft parts, along side their antique gm stuff, and the trans guy has done a couple of these and seemed well versed in the various versions of GM licensed transmissions that RR used over the years

were currently thinking the internal seals let go from sitting too long. itll go into gear fine but wont move more than a couple inches after some serious reving...
PO was driving the car around a bit on the weekends (he claims to have put ~1000miles on it in the couple years or so that he owned it) then it slowly started to "fail to proceed" one afternoon as rolls would say, and he ended up limping it home.

ive heard the silver clouds are a bear to work on because of the x-frame... coworkers dad used to have one and i guess they did some maintenance to theirs and it was a pain to get to things under the car.

glad to see theres some RR folks on here, im sure ill be coming back asking some questions as we stumble through this

[22AudiQ]

Fine, I'll be the guy who asks (didn't see anyone else ask):

How much?

[Aw614]

in, to watch, chrome pieces look like they held up really well.

[l88m22vette]

lower it

[ValveCoverGasket]

Fine, I'll be the guy who asks (didn't see anyone else ask):

How much?

about $6000


yeah the brightwork held up really well

[Air and water do mix]

about $6000


yeah the brightwork held up really well

Good price.

I would be surprised if the chrome didn't look really good. If it were kept inside, it certainly should. The car is of good quality and only the cheap-o chrome really fails quickly. My folks had an '86 Delta 88 (about the height of GM bad build quality). The chrome pitted within about 2 years. The bumpers on my '66 Beetle? Well, they don't look new but they look one hell of a lot better than their bumpers did in 1988! Your Rolls should have far better chrome than what's on my Bug, too. (At least I would certainly think so!)

[Air and water do mix]

the self leveling suspension works as the rear doesnt seem to sag when the car is running. the front has already had the leveling removed and updated with the later model front struts/springs... so... less of that crap to go wrong i suppose.

Is there an 'update' for the rear suspension as well, or does it need to remain self-leveling? I would keep it stock if you can, but it's nice to have options.

[ValveCoverGasket]

from what understand about the suspension, the early shadows were sold with leveling all around, then later ones moved to rear only (not sure what year they took away front leveling). there isnt a non leveling rear end that im aware of.

as for the chrome, i think that most of that stuff was either aluminum or some sort of stainless steel. we havent taken any of it off to be sure but it definitely seems solid and really good quality.

[geofftii2002]

There may have been a rear suspension update through Harvey Bailey in the UK, but I can't imagine it being cheap. And I don't even know if it's still available.

[ValveCoverGasket]

There may have been a rear suspension update through Harvey Bailey in the UK, but I can't imagine it being cheap. And I don't even know if it's still available.

to move to a more traditional setup in the rear? or just a different sort of self leveling?

[eurospec 24vT]

watching

[todd19465]

very nice
my grandpa had an 89 silver spur II for a few years when i was younger. It was awesome. We drove it down to North Carolina from Nj a few times. The huge floor was great to sleep on
That might have been the first car I ever drove, actually. I was probably in 5th grade and he let me drive arround their private community

there was a shop in N.C. that he found and would get parts off of. Also I believe he got parts from a RR guy arround Philly, so they are out there if you look hard enough

[geofftii2002]

to move to a more traditional setup in the rear? or just a different sort of self leveling?

That much I don't know - I was checking the Harvey Bailey website but they just direct you to Eibach UK... so I'm not sure what the deal is with the setup.

[ValveCoverGasket]

interesting... i guess well have to investigate if we run into problems with the rear suspension (hoping that isnt the case though! hah)

[Live-Wire]

They're going to sell you lots of little washers and seals that go with each of those jobs - don't skimp out and get everything they tell you you need. This is not an easy car to recommission, the braking and suspension systems are complex and expensive to rebuild. A car that sits is a car that dies. So good luck.

I've been training in hydraulic service and diagnosis... and have learned this is VERY true. When dealing with a high pressure hydraulic system you 100% need to replace every single O-ring, washer, crush seal etc... don't skimp. Pressurized fluid will just find the next weakest link in the chain if you only replace the leaking seal - if one is leaking, the rest are all close behind. And yes a sitting hydraulic system is one that is dying. The fluid is a life-blood, you need circulating fluid to keep the seals moist and supple - with nothing there they dry out and rot... crumbling away to dust.

If you can avoid rubber seals (original equipment) and go with new synthetic seals (I think the material is called Viton, perhaps Nitrile... I believe Viton is the better one tho) made with modern materials DO IT! There has been much progress in hydraulic sealing methods since the 60's.

Also change the fluid, old hydraulic fluid can be detrimental it might contain contaminants that are eating away at the seals in the car.

As for the electrical system... don't forget to use di-electric grease, and try to make all connections completely water tight. I'd recommend using completely new harnesses and connectors (not Sta-Kon's or butt-splices at all!!!... the is absolutely no water/moisture protection and hand-crimped connectors fail all the time, they are terrible especially in industrial/automotive... vibration does them in and the wiring works loose eventually). Soldering and heat shrink (making sure to twist the wires together in a correct manner such as the Western Union Splice - this is how telegraph wiring was repaired back in the day, so obviously it works well ) would be a good way to make most repairs.



Most important things to know with electrical reconditioning:
- shoddy electrical systems still work 99% of the time, be aware of the difference between shoddy and good. Just because something turns on, doesn't mean it's hooked up correctly
- imagine something 10 years down the road - if you don't think it will last, it won't!
- make sure everything is 100% clean
- make sure moisture has the hardest time getting to it
- vibration is an enemy
- pinched wiring is an enemy (so are tight bends, and bundles of wiring strapped down too tightly)
- make sure everything is double insulated when crossing over metal - gusset metal holes with gas-line tubing slit down the middle or something similar... helps prevent short circuits down the road
- think to yourself, would this be factory approved... butt-splices or "marrette" type connectors have no place in cars, boats, or aircraft. Butt-splices are for very temporary repairs. Marrettes are meant for larger gauge wiring connections done inside an enclosure

[ValveCoverGasket]

if only the brits had learned how to properly make wiring connections

at least the hydro system design is from citroen and it seems to be more robust than their wiring... aide from the special castrol rolls royce fluid it needs

[ratdub]

i wonder if DIY autotune makes a PnP kit for this vintage Rolls

it is refreshing that someone is actually working on a real car on here...i would love to see the step by step quasi-refresh of this fine vehicle

[dieselraver]

love it! and the mustard too!

[ValveCoverGasket]

i wonder if DIY autotune makes a PnP kit for this vintage Rolls

ive had a soft spot for an early 90s turbo bentley for a while... which could be an amusing car to put aftermarket injection onto
but after getting involved with this thing i think one rolls/bentley is enough


and a small update, im dropping the trans off at the rebuilders on friday morning

[ValveCoverGasket]

quick update
got word back from the trans guy last night - sounds like the flex plate is out of round, and blew up the front pump in the trans as well as the torque converter.
hunt is on now for some of these parts, so well see how spendy of an adventure this turns into.

also, got registered on the RROC forums, and working on hunting down some other odds and ends that it needs, and were getting closer to starting up the wood working soon

[RS-Karl]

Way to go! Love those Silver Shadows!

They're so much more graceful than the Silver Spirit!

[ValveCoverGasket]

also have to say ive really been pretty let down by the rolls wrecking yards ive gotten a hold of so far.

no one seems to have the great little odds and ends that i would expect to find even at a german specific yard locally, engine hoses, washer bottles, random trim, etc... i dont know what the point of holding onto a whole car is if you arent willing/able to sell all of the little random bits and pieces off of it.

anyway... hoping that joining the RROC and their forum will allow access to some folks who are actually willing to part out cars, or have random parts laying around for sale.

[epbrown]

anyway... hoping that joining the RROC and their forum will allow access to some folks who are actually willing to part out cars, or have random parts laying around for sale.

You will, lots of people have Silver Shadows lying around. After mine was t-boned I needed a new rear passenger-side door. An RROC member in Ohio sold me one for a couple hundred bucks.

[Merc-MarkO]

........... If you can avoid rubber seals (original equipment) and go with new synthetic seals (I think the material is called Viton, perhaps Nitrile... I believe Viton is the better one tho) made with modern materials DO IT! There has been much progress in hydraulic sealing methods since the 60's.

Viton is $$$ and you would need to ensure it's actually compatible with the fluid.

Kalrez might be an option here but again, $$$.

[ValveCoverGasket]

You will, lots of people have Silver Shadows lying around. After mine was t-boned I needed a new rear passenger-side door. An RROC member in Ohio sold me one for a couple hundred bucks.

excellent, thats some good news... was really frustrated by the RR wreckers yesterday afternoon.

some parts that should be really easy to find that they were totally unwilling to sell me or didnt even have around.

hoping to not get raked over the coals too bad by RR for the trans pump... and will probably be doing the rear main seal while the trans is out - since we have to bring the flywheel runout back into spec before we go putting it all together and blowing another trans. not sure when ill get around to all of this but ill keep you guys posted