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    Thread: 189whp 153wtq 2.0l 16v ABF Info inside

    1. 11-04-2010 05:24 PM #1
      More information: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Qua...t/281129179600

      www.quantumrallysport.com

      If you are near NJ, come on out and see us this weekend at New jersey Motorsports Park NJMP for the last round of the US RallyCross Championships. http://rally-america.com/rallycross.php


      Engine basics:
      2.0l 16v ABF imported by NGP in 2006 ngpracing.com
      Rebuilt by Justice Racing Engines after smashing the oil pan & pump in 2007 justiceracingengines.com
      ported head -- pretty mild
      Wiseco 11.5:1 CR pistons
      Stock crank & rods & valves
      HD valve springs
      Ti retainers
      Techtonics 4-1 header
      2.5" exhaust
      Autronic SM4 Engine management tuned by Franz Diebold at Dieboldautosport.com
      Sunoco 100 octane (also runs on 93 octane pump gas)



      Plot #1 has:

      2.5" race cat & magnaflow 14" straight through muffler (required for stage rally)
      techtonics 276 cams
      MK4 1.8t airbox with K&N Panel filter
      147whp 126wtq


      Plot #1 has:
      No cat or muffler (not required for NJMP track)
      Techtonics 288 cams
      Cone filter (was also run with the airbox and gained 4hp with the cone filter shown here)
      underdrive aluminum crank pulley
      189whp 153wtq

      intake is still a bit choked--throttlebody wise but i was shocked at the gains from the cams considering we thought the bottleneck was mechanical (i.e. intake & throttle body)

      On the rollers at NGP
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YeZNElfsNo

      startup and idle
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VILRqAkv24I

      2 plots overlaid








      Last edited by QuantumRallySport; 11-04-2010 at 05:51 PM.

    2. Senior Member MFZERO's Avatar
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      11-04-2010 06:30 PM #2
      That looks like a good time!

    3. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      11-04-2010 07:19 PM #3
      I like how the 288's "wake-up" right around 4500rpm. That has to be a fun motor.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    4. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      11-04-2010 08:20 PM #4
      I like how you're just blasting that Miata in the face!!! That curve makes me quite jealous, and makes me realize I need to put the 50mm and some real cams in my stroker.

    5. Member yeayeayea's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 02:09 AM #5
      so by redoing the exhaust and going from 276 cams up to 288 you got 40whp and 23wtq?

      because if i am reading that right, then i will be buying some 288's very soon

    6. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 02:18 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by yeayeayea View Post
      so by redoing the exhaust and going from 276 cams up to 288 you got 40whp and 23wtq?

      because if i am reading that right, then i will be buying some 288's very soon

      You missed one word in there, TUNING!!

    7. Member yeayeayea's Avatar
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      11-05-2010 06:15 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
      You missed one word in there, TUNING!!
      i run carbs, so does that mean -40whp?


      I need me an abf....

    8. 11-14-2010 05:10 PM #8
      That car sounds wonderfully wicked. Looking at your dyno plot, I wonder if that car is streetable.
      The reason I ask is that deep inside I've always wanted to try high compression and monster cams on my 16v, of course I'm just dreaming... can't possibly use 100 octane everyday...

    9. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      11-14-2010 05:52 PM #9
      Why wouldn't it be "street-able", with the stock intake and manifold, it should be quite drive-able, possibly a real blast above 5k rpm.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    10. 11-14-2010 06:57 PM #10
      Thoes are prety decent numbers, a friend of mine have a Mk2 Jetta GLI with a similar setup but using a 9A block and the car develope 198WHP. Probably with a few more fine tunning you can get there. Good Luck guys!

    11. 11-15-2010 08:51 AM #11
      I'm just getting old My car spends most of it's life at 3k in local traffic. I'm starting to wonder if a port and polish is even worth it or necessary on a 16v head with a hp goal below 180hp? I've seen a few ported heads and I would bet it actually hurt their performance.

    12. 11-15-2010 10:32 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by D. Collins View Post
      That car sounds wonderfully wicked. Looking at your dyno plot, I wonder if that car is streetable.
      The reason I ask is that deep inside I've always wanted to try high compression and monster cams on my 16v, of course I'm just dreaming... can't possibly use 100 octane everyday...

      No problem, it also runs 93octane at the flip of a switch.....

      Easy to drive on the street. Part of the reason is that I run a stock flywheel instead of a lightened one.

    13. Member
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      11-15-2010 04:16 PM #13
      awesome numbers
      the bottle neck is the head...

    14. Member cleanA3's Avatar
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      11-16-2010 09:57 AM #14
      That looks like fun

    15. Member URIN 2ND's Avatar
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      11-16-2010 03:18 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by D. Collins View Post
      I'm just getting old My car spends most of its life at 3k in local traffic. I'm starting to wonder if a port and polish is even worth it or necessary on a 16v head with a hp goal below 180hp? I've seen a few ported heads and I would bet it actually hurt their performance.
      Exactly...that's how I define "streetable." Whether the car is entertaining to drive in the RPM range where it will spend most of its time naturally.

      288's? Heck no. I've read many posts saying the same thing...the engine is a dog under 5k RPMs. Now, this engine has stand alone management and also 11.5:1 pistons (the actual ratio is likely to be a little higher, too, since the head was certainly milled when it was rebuilt). So imagine 288's on stock management and stock CR. No thanks!

      May as well get a Honda and go VTEC!

      For a race track, it seems like it's working, since peak HP and a narrow powerband are OK. But on the street? Daily driver? Yuck. It would suck getting owned by Nissan Sentras and Ford Festivas until you pass the 5k mark.
      Quote Originally Posted by SGLoki View Post
      I believe rupaul is the tallest trans.

    16. 11-16-2010 05:12 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by URIN 2ND View Post
      Exactly...that's how I define "streetable." Whether the car is entertaining to drive in the RPM range where it will spend most of its time naturally.

      288's? Heck no. I've read many posts saying the same thing...the engine is a dog under 5k RPMs. Now, this engine has stand alone management and also 11.5:1 pistons (the actual ratio is likely to be a little higher, too, since the head was certainly milled when it was rebuilt). So imagine 288's on stock management and stock CR. No thanks!

      May as well get a Honda and go VTEC!

      For a race track, it seems like it's working, since peak HP and a narrow powerband are OK. But on the street? Daily driver? Yuck. It would suck getting owned by Nissan Sentras and Ford Festivas until you pass the 5k mark.

      Well, it made more HP and more TQ across the entire powerband VS the Techtonics 276s that were in there before. So, I would say that it improved streetability if it weren't for the noise of having no cat or muffler.

      BTW: 11.5:1 is the actual CR and it runs just fine on 93 octane

      Unfortunately, the ABF digifant-3 can not handle anything more than stock cams. Chip tuning the Digi unit is more difficult, less flexible, and ultimately more expensive than running stand alone. If you don't mind carbs, they are cheaper and remove the major remaining restriction (Throttle body & intake pipe).

      VWMS managed 220chp with the stock intake manifold so we have at least another 10-15hp that can be squeezed out of her. They made 240+ with ITBs but that is a pain in the butt, too much maintenance, and too much $$$...

    17. 11-16-2010 05:23 PM #17
      Oh for sure. There's no way to get those numbers on stock fueling and compression. It's never that easy on these old motors and a butt dyno. Speaking of VTEC, there's a VW Caddy with a K20 series motor in it somewhere on the tex; pretty cool stuff. I know, I know, it's a Honda...

    18. Member URIN 2ND's Avatar
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      11-16-2010 06:30 PM #18
      K20 Caddy? Really? Haha...that oughtta be pretty fun!

      Quantum...ITB's would be the bee's knees! But yes, unless you're a crafted fabricator, they can be a real PITA. They are on my "...if I ever win the Lotto..." list.

      What's the car weigh, anyhow? 220+ N/A HP in a sub-2100 lb car is definitely a grin-maker! Hell, mine is entertaining, and I'm lucky if I'm making 160 at the crank!
      Quote Originally Posted by SGLoki View Post
      I believe rupaul is the tallest trans.

    19. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      11-16-2010 08:52 PM #19
      If you look at the power/trq to RPMs in that graph, it makes the numbers that mild 8v's make at peak right before it really gets busy at 4500, then it runs on strongfor another 2500-3000rpm, and where that 8v peaks at 5500-6k, this 16v gains 25whp in that same 500rpm and makes 175whp at 6k!! This motor would drive great in a light weight street car day in and day out, but when the canyons call..........

      It is a wakeup call to see these kind of numbers in a car still running a regular intake mani. Again, Bravo.
      Quote Originally Posted by wilm13 View Post
      I refuse to say anything but A1, A2 and A3. As far as I am concerned VW stopped making cars after that.

    20. 11-17-2010 08:22 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by URIN 2ND View Post
      What's the car weigh, anyhow? 220+ N/A HP in a sub-2100 lb car is definitely a grin-maker! Hell, mine is entertaining, and I'm lucky if I'm making 160 at the crank!
      Yeah, my neighbor who's into V8 muscle thinks my Rabbit has 250 hp (he's been in the car), people don't believe it's only 140-160 bhp.

      Physically, ABF motors are different from our 9A/PL blocks too. ABF heads have smaller exhaust valves, slightly different valve shrouding and the blocks have a longer rod ratio.

      QuantumRallySport

    21. 11-17-2010 12:12 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by URIN 2ND View Post
      K20 Caddy? Really? Haha...that oughtta be pretty fun!

      Quantum...ITB's would be the bee's knees! But yes, unless you're a crafted fabricator, they can be a real PITA. They are on my "...if I ever win the Lotto..." list.

      What's the car weigh, anyhow? 220+ N/A HP in a sub-2100 lb car is definitely a grin-maker! Hell, mine is entertaining, and I'm lucky if I'm making 160 at the crank!
      ITBs in Rally are too much trouble, too much dirt, too many adjustments and maintenance.

      Car weights 2340lbs in full rally trim 2180lbs in rallycross trim and would be under 2000lbs if you took out the cage, skid plates, underbody protection etc etc. Still has a nearly full steel hood (trimmed some bracing to clear intake).

    22. 11-17-2010 12:15 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by D. Collins View Post
      Physically, ABF motors are different from our 9A/PL blocks too. ABF heads have smaller exhaust valves, slightly different valve shrouding and the blocks have a longer rod ratio.

      QuantumRallySport
      Yes, the ABF has the longer rods like an ABA and has smaller exhaust valves---not sure why---but we run stock ABF valves. Don't know if we would gain from oversized or not.

      USRT is working on an intake manifold and TB that we might try out on this thing and see if it removes the current bottleneck at the TB.

    23. Member nick526's Avatar
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      11-17-2010 03:17 PM #23
      Watching

      Can't wait to get my ABF running, should be a great match for my Mk1

    24. 11-17-2010 03:28 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by nick526 View Post
      Watching

      You can watch some on-car vids and enjoy the sounds on our Youtube Tab http://www.facebook.com/pages/Quantu...pp_57675755167

    25. Member RedYellowWhite's Avatar
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      11-17-2010 04:20 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by QuantumRallySport View Post
      You can watch some on-car vids and enjoy the sounds on our Youtube Tab http://www.facebook.com/pages/Quantu...pp_57675755167
      Nice vid
      Impressive specs
      Quote Originally Posted by dogger View Post
      ... (Corrado) might be the greatest collection of bad VW ideas ever put into one car.
      My Corrado (sort of) build thread / On Database
      My MK1 build thread
      SpoonFedTuning

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