Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    The Car Lounge
    Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
    Results 1 to 35 of 87

    Thread: 6.7% manual transmission for 2010 cars and light trucks in the US

    1. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Mar 24th, 2001
      Posts
      26,534
      11-19-2010 01:14 AM #1
      6.7% of the 2010 cars and light trucks sold in the US had manual transmissions.

      Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, and Daimler had lower percentages. Surprisingly, GM had a higher percentage (7.2%), even though GM historically tended to have lower than average percentages.

      http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fetrends.htm (appendix P, columns V, W, X are transmission percentages for manual, automatic, and CVT).


    2. Member bmann's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 7th, 2001
      Location
      Boulder, CO
      Posts
      3,069
      Vehicles
      2005 Toyota MR2 Spyder
      11-19-2010 01:20 AM #2
      Compared to what, 98% in Europe?
      Do not be persecuted by the pompous fedora, balanced by the equilibrium, fortified by the
      government's inability to eradicate, or foreshadow—taken from the Hebrew word: foreskin

    3. Banned rapyoke's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 15th, 2010
      Location
      District of Columbia
      Posts
      2,359
      Vehicles
      2005 Lexus SC430
      11-19-2010 01:29 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      Compared to what, 98% in Europe?
      Europe is going in the same direction as us, albeit at a slow-as-molasses pace.

    4. Member bmann's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 7th, 2001
      Location
      Boulder, CO
      Posts
      3,069
      Vehicles
      2005 Toyota MR2 Spyder
      11-19-2010 01:33 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by rapyoke View Post
      Europe is going in the same direction as us, albeit at a slow-as-molasses pace.
      Yeah, but down from 85% to 75% in the last 8 years, is still a looooong way off of 7%.
      Do not be persecuted by the pompous fedora, balanced by the equilibrium, fortified by the
      government's inability to eradicate, or foreshadow—taken from the Hebrew word: foreskin

    5. 11-19-2010 02:03 AM #5
      Does that mean this shirt will be less cheesy in a few years?


    6. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 16th, 2005
      Location
      Tennessee
      Posts
      64,452
      Vehicles
      88 F150, 04 RX8
      11-19-2010 02:51 AM #6
      Somebody needs to produce a heavy duty car- just to throw off these lists.
      |˙˙ʇǝuɹǝʇuı ǝɥʇ uo ʇxǝʇ uʍop ǝpısdn ɯopuɐɹ pɐǝɹ noʎ :ǝɯıʇ ǝǝɹɟ ɥɔnɯ ooʇ ʎɐʍ ǝʌɐɥ noʎ ןןǝʇ oʇ ʍoɥ˙˙˙|http://hotlinktest.com/

    7. Member Churras's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 6th, 2010
      Posts
      393
      Vehicles
      '99 VW Gol, '12 Focus, '12 Vw Fox
      11-19-2010 03:44 AM #7

    8. Member Snaak.'s Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 15th, 2008
      Location
      Helsinki, Finland
      Posts
      3,090
      Vehicles
      2010 Prius
      11-19-2010 04:01 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      Yeah, but down from 85% to 75% in the last 8 years, is still a looooong way off of 7%.
      It's funny how this is SPOT on! I just did a check on Finland biggest secondhand car website and of the 63.662 cars for sale there were 16.110 automatics, so yeah, 25%!
      CANIS•CANEM•EDIT

    9. Member Chris_V's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 18th, 2009
      Location
      Pikesville, MD
      Posts
      13,592
      Vehicles
      1963 Mercury Comet, 2014 Mini Cooper, '02 Suburban 2500LT
      11-19-2010 09:42 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      Yeah, but down from 85% to 75% in the last 8 years, is still a looooong way off of 7%.
      So, since taxation forced Europe in to tiny cars with tiny engines that need a manual trans to simply move, that makes them better than us?

      Dude, don't fall into the trap that all those little 1 liter manual trans cars were bought because they were in any way desirable. There's a reason that 7 series BMWs come with 2.0-2.8 liter engines over there and not here. Do you thin kthat a 2.8 liter 7 series is a good fit? No, it's done because they think they HAVE to.
      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    10. Member RollingInDubs's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 23rd, 2003
      Location
      MN
      Posts
      3,369
      Vehicles
      2013 Ford F150 FX-4 SCREW 5.0L, 2014 Chevrolet Camaro 1SS 6MT
      11-19-2010 09:45 AM #10
      I think this statistic is flawed anyways because more than half of the cars in the U.S. don't even have the manual option in the first place...so how can someone opt for it?

      If some cars actually CAME with manuals, I think we would be looking at a higher percentage...

    11. 11-19-2010 09:55 AM #11
      Believe it or not, 6.7% was actually an increase, from 4.8% last year.


    12. Member adrew's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 14th, 2003
      Location
      Texas
      Posts
      12,575
      Vehicles
      '12 Yaris, '14 Mirage, 2.7 liters total
      11-19-2010 10:01 AM #12
      <--- Proud to be part of that 6.7%

      (though I did really enjoy the smooth, seamless power from the Prius rental I had last weekend)
      Improving the signal-to-noise ratio • Come make some hard cider

    13. Member Blonde Guy's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 10th, 2006
      Location
      Santa Cruz, CA
      Posts
      784
      Vehicles
      2011 Golf TDI
      11-19-2010 10:12 AM #13
      I just bought my first automatic transmission car. It's a DSG, and I like it, but sometimes I find myself trying to use the manual transmission that isn't there.

      After a lifetime of driving the car exactly as I wanted with a manual, I'm now finding that I can control the gear selection using the accelerator and brake, and of course the automatic shifts faster than I ever could. Engine braking down hills is way nicer in the automatic. I'm not sure I lost anything.

      I do wish I had more programs than just D and S.

    14. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 8th, 2003
      Location
      Brickell
      Posts
      26,445
      Vehicles
      1986 Legs and/or 2014 Blue Non-MANual European Turbo Hatch
      11-19-2010 10:15 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by RollingInDubs View Post
      I think this statistic is flawed anyways because more than half of the cars in the U.S. don't even have the manual option in the first place...so how can someone opt for it?

      If some cars actually CAME with manuals, I think we would be looking at a higher percentage...
      Who cares? Are people really pining for manual Traverses, Grand Cherokees, ES350s, and Avalons?

    15. 11-19-2010 10:17 AM #15
      Europeans don't only buy manuals because their cars are underpowered. They buy them because they know how to drive a manual, and then choose to buy them. In the US, most people buy automatics now because they have no idea how to drive a manual, making it a bit difficult to choose to spend $20+ on a car they can't drive.

      Also, Europeans just do drive more assertively than Americans - the manual lends itself to that kind of driving, while automatics are better for slowly oozing from place to place while sipping your latte.

      And that shirt will never be anything but full cheesy.

    16. 11-19-2010 10:21 AM #16
      Get used to it; that number ain't climbing soon.
      <---owns three manual cars

    17. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 30th, 2008
      Location
      Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
      Posts
      6,876
      Vehicles
      1994 Honda Prelude V-TAK
      11-19-2010 10:25 AM #17
      I can't see myself buying a brand new car anytime soon so as long as there's an abundance of used cars with manual transmissions..i'll be ok.

    18. Senior Member NoDubJustYet's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 25th, 2002
      Location
      WNoVA
      Posts
      27,819
      Vehicles
      MkV GTI
      11-19-2010 10:28 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by InfraRedline View Post
      Europeans don't only buy manuals because their cars are underpowered. They buy them because they know how to drive a manual, and then choose to buy them. In the US, most people buy automatics now because they have no idea how to drive a manual, making it a bit difficult to choose to spend $20+ on a car they can't drive.

      Also, Europeans just do drive more assertively than Americans - the manual lends itself to that kind of driving, while automatics are better for slowly oozing from place to place while sipping your latte.

      And that shirt will never be anything but full cheesy.
      Walk down a nice street in any major European city and check out the cars... you'd be surprised at how many automatics you'll see.

    19. 11-19-2010 10:39 AM #19
      RollingInDubs
      I think this statistic is flawed anyways because more than half of the cars in the U.S. don't even have the manual option in the first place...so how can someone opt for it?

      If some cars actually CAME with manuals, I think we would be looking at a higher percentage...

      Came to post this exact same thought. The stats dont say that people do not want manual cars, all they show that manufacturers are selling many automatic and few manual transmission equipped cars.
      Not saying the stats are flawed, but they do not represent a clear picture of real demand for manual equipped versus automatic transmissions.

      When manufacturers do offer the choice, its usually on the expensive models or the stripper base models - both groups which make up a small percentage of total sales. They should do a thorough analysis: whats the percentage of manual equipped cars in models that offer the option. For now these stats dont say much.

    20. 11-19-2010 10:41 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by InfraRedline View Post
      Europeans don't only buy manuals because their cars are underpowered. They buy them because they know how to drive a manual, and then choose to buy them. In the US, most people buy automatics now because they have no idea how to drive a manual, making it a bit difficult to choose to spend $20+ on a car they can't drive.

      Also, Europeans just do drive more assertively than Americans - the manual lends itself to that kind of driving, while automatics are better for slowly oozing from place to place while sipping your latte.

      And that shirt will never be anything but full cheesy.
      Wow, there is so much nonsense in these statements I think my head might explode.

      I guess my idea of every driver in Europe being Sebastien Loeb and power sliding around the Eiffel Tower is correct then?
      Last edited by andrew.savage; 11-19-2010 at 10:44 AM.

    21. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 8th, 2003
      Location
      Brickell
      Posts
      26,445
      Vehicles
      1986 Legs and/or 2014 Blue Non-MANual European Turbo Hatch
      11-19-2010 10:41 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by B_artman View Post
      Came to post this exact same thought. The stats dont say that people do not want manual cars, all they show that manufacturers are selling many automatic and few manual transmission equipped cars.
      Not saying the stats are flawed, but they do not represent a clear picture of real demand for manual equipped versus automatic transmissions.

      When manufacturers do offer the choice, its usually on the expensive models or the stripper base models - both groups which make up a small percentage of total sales. They should do a thorough analysis: whats the percentage of manual equipped cars in models that offer the option. For now these stats dont say much.
      Except that's because people stopped buying manuals unless it was in the sports model or base model cheap-ass stripper edition.

    22. Member Art Vandelay's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 20th, 2005
      Location
      STL
      Posts
      9,868
      Vehicles
      SVO
      11-19-2010 10:43 AM #22
      The weird thing about this is that Americans very obviously have shift envy. Most car commercials feature a smiling driver enthusiastically "shifting" in order to accelerate. So, we think shifting is awesome, yet we don't want to actually do it.
      JSW TDI, Mustang SVO, et al.

    23. Member
      Join Date
      Dec 25th, 2009
      Location
      smug
      Posts
      810
      11-19-2010 10:44 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by InfraRedline View Post
      Europeans don't only buy manuals because their cars are underpowered. They buy them because they know how to drive a manual, and then choose to buy them. In the US, most people buy automatics now because they have no idea how to drive a manual, making it a bit difficult to choose to spend $20+ on a car they can't drive.

      Also, Europeans just do drive more assertively than Americans - the manual lends itself to that kind of driving, while automatics are better for slowly oozing from place to place while sipping your latte.

      And that shirt will never be anything but full cheesy.
      True, true

      People have always had manuals and never probably tried automatics. It's just what they are used to. My folks aren't enthusiastic drivers by a long shot, they just probably never even thought about automatics.
      Also if automatic is an 2000euro option, it's easy to rule it out when buying your 5th corolla on the row.

    24. 11-19-2010 10:47 AM #24
      I wonder what it is in Canada?

    25. Member Spheric's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 7th, 2007
      Location
      Toronto, Canada
      Posts
      265
      Vehicles
      2010 2.5 Golf Highline MT / prev 2007 Passat 2.0T
      11-19-2010 10:48 AM #25
      I wonder which of the car brands has the highest manual transmission ownership? Can't be BMW or Porsche as both seem to have lost the plot and are moving away from their traditional driver engagement heritage.....

    26. Member maskedSONY's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 7th, 2000
      Posts
      8,517
      Vehicles
      2007 Accord EX-L
      11-19-2010 10:48 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by NoDubJustYet View Post
      Walk down a nice street in any major European city and check out the cars... you'd be surprised at how many automatics you'll see.
      And go to a major city in India/Southeast Asia and most cars will have a manual because most of their driving is insane stop and go at low speeds. Over the course of the car's life, the manual transmission survives this well with a good driver, but an automatic transmission will eventually die and break because this is essentially torture for the machine.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel!
      It really is the perfect, no excuses all-rounder for the rich guy who's accustomed to having it all - the Hybrid version especially. It's like an F-150 Raptor banged an M5 in the men's room of a biker bar. Nobody really wanted the results, but damn - what a set of genes.

    27. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 8th, 2003
      Location
      Brickell
      Posts
      26,445
      Vehicles
      1986 Legs and/or 2014 Blue Non-MANual European Turbo Hatch
      11-19-2010 10:51 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      The weird thing about this is that Americans very obviously have shift envy. Most car commercials feature a smiling driver enthusiastically "shifting" in order to accelerate. So, we think shifting is awesome, yet we don't want to actually do it.
      People are interested in potential. That's why we like fancy kitchens and home theater setups. Most people with automatics with the "shifter" brag about how it's like a race car, but never use it. The only person I've known to use the shifting in an automatic is my step-dad, but he drives like an absolute maniac.

      I also think most commercials present idealized driving. Most people's only experiences with driving are gridlock on the way to work, the mad dash to soccer practice and the grocery store, and the holiday trips to grandma's place 4-5 hours away. Not really any places to wring out the car and enjoy its delightfully tuned handling balance that was honed at the Nurburgring.

    28. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 8th, 2003
      Location
      Brickell
      Posts
      26,445
      Vehicles
      1986 Legs and/or 2014 Blue Non-MANual European Turbo Hatch
      11-19-2010 10:52 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by maskedSONY View Post
      And go to a major city in India/Southeast Asia and most cars will have a manual because most of their driving is insane stop and go at low speeds. Over the course of the car's life, the manual transmission survives this well with a good driver, but an automatic transmission will eventually die and break because this is essentially torture for the machine.
      Yeah, clutch replacements are totally unheard of on pretty much every manual car ever.

    29. 11-19-2010 10:52 AM #29
      Except that's because people stopped buying manuals unless it was in the sports model or base model cheap-ass stripper edition.
      That might be the case, though there could many reasons for that trend - one being that the choice was removed over time for the average vehicle. Though I wonder what an analysis would show when comparing vehicles that do offer the option. I'd like to see an analysis of a Golf, Mini or other model that offers the option across the model line. I'd also like to see a thorough historical analsis showing availability of the option versus selection of the option by the buyers.

    30. Member Benjamin.'s Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 12th, 2001
      Location
      Hanover, PA
      Posts
      9,795
      Vehicles
      2006 Escape 5MT, 2010 Prius
      11-19-2010 10:57 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Yeah, clutch replacements are totally unheard of on pretty much every manual car ever.
      A clutch replacement is routine maintenance. A transmission replacement is not.

    31. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 8th, 2003
      Location
      Brickell
      Posts
      26,445
      Vehicles
      1986 Legs and/or 2014 Blue Non-MANual European Turbo Hatch
      11-19-2010 11:01 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by B_artman View Post
      That might be the case, though there could many reasons for that trend - one being that the choice was removed over time for the average vehicle. Though I wonder what an analysis would show when comparing vehicles that do offer the option. I'd like to see an analysis of a Golf, Mini or other model that offers the option across the model line. I'd also like to see a thorough historical analsis showing availability of the option versus selection of the option by the buyers.
      Well, I'm gonna let you in on a dirty little secret. Car companies want to make money. It's highly unlikely for a car company to stop selling things that they make money on. IF the 50,000 soccer moms per year that buy RX 350s wanted stick shifts, Lexus would offer it. Manuals only sell to two markets at this point: cheap-asses and sports car folks. Average people won't buy sticks because they can't be bothered. Look at the take rates for cars like the M3 or Mustang GT or 911 Turbo or any sports car that offers a manual and automatic option. "Automatics" dominate.

      Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin. View Post
      A clutch replacement is routine maintenance. A transmission replacement is not.
      How often do automatics need full replacements?

      *Waits for "well my mom's Odyssey had 19 transmission replacements within 8 miles and my Golf 2.Slow is still on the original clutch"*
      Last edited by Fritz27; 11-19-2010 at 11:04 AM.

    32. Member maskedSONY's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 7th, 2000
      Posts
      8,517
      Vehicles
      2007 Accord EX-L
      11-19-2010 11:01 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin. View Post
      A clutch replacement is routine maintenance. A transmission replacement is not.
      Exactly. And in stop and go traffic at slow speeds, having the clutch fry up as opposed to having the automatic go kaput is much more financially desirable to car owners over there.

      Also, if you drive a manual carefully, the clutch can last forever.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel!
      It really is the perfect, no excuses all-rounder for the rich guy who's accustomed to having it all - the Hybrid version especially. It's like an F-150 Raptor banged an M5 in the men's room of a biker bar. Nobody really wanted the results, but damn - what a set of genes.

    33. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 29th, 2004
      Location
      Annapolis, MD
      Posts
      37,164
      Vehicles
      '13 Focus, '08.5 MS3, '97 Wrangler, '90 Miata
      11-19-2010 11:07 AM #33
      A simple manual transmission is also significantly cheaper than an automatic transmission, which is important for emerging auto markets.
      www.leftlanenews.com
      @SSLByron, @leftlanenews

    34. Banned 1SICKLEX's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 8th, 2001
      Location
      ____________________
      Posts
      20,046
      Vehicles
      Beige hybrid fancy Toyota and other fancy dumb Toyotas
      11-19-2010 11:11 AM #34
      2009 figures


      BMW 17.3% (20.5% cars+wagons, 0.4% trucks)
      VW 12.7% (16.4% cars+wagons, 1.5% trucks)
      Honda 7.3% (12.0% cars+wagons, 0.7% trucks)
      Toyota 6.2% (7.1% cars+wagons, 5.0% trucks)
      Ford 5.4% (8.8% cars+wagons, 2.2% trucks)
      Hyundai 4.4% (5.6% cars+wagons, 2.1% trucks)
      Nissan 4.3% (5.4% cars+wagons, 2.9% trucks)
      Chrysler 4.0% (7.0% cars+wagons, 3.0% trucks)
      GM 3.7% (7.3% cars+wagons, 0.7% trucks)
      http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/mpg/fet...014-appx-p.xls

    35. Member adrew's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 14th, 2003
      Location
      Texas
      Posts
      12,575
      Vehicles
      '12 Yaris, '14 Mirage, 2.7 liters total
      11-19-2010 11:17 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by PassSedanGLX View Post
      A simple manual transmission is also significantly cheaper than an automatic transmission, which is important for emerging auto markets.
      Don't forget that maintenance is significantly cheaper, too. Regular ol' manuals usually call for a fluid change every 60k miles or so. In my experience, most use 30-weight motor oil and a change costs about $49.95 if you have someone else do it. A clutch is, what, $400 every 150-200k miles?

      Our automatic Sonata requires an ATF change every 30k miles (with special, dealer-only fluid) if the car is subjected to any of the bullet points under the severe maintenance schedule. It runs some arbitrary figure like $229.95 to have them do it.
      Last edited by adrew; 11-19-2010 at 11:21 AM.
      Improving the signal-to-noise ratio • Come make some hard cider

    Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •