8v weber downdraft build

[Snatcher]

from where the linkage is, there's only about 2 inches of empty space before it hits the engine bay. i could tie it against the bay. it has to bend period. the pedal is pretty firm, similar to how i had it when it was efi. it does slip, it keeps its tension all the way to full throttle. I'd love to make another hole on the fire wall, but that's going to go right behind the dash and that's not gonna work, i doubt a cable could fit through there. in the kit, it came with this lever that has a pivot, for the obvious reason. to have the cable be pulled from an angle.

[B4S]

When you step on it, and the engine rocks forward...be sure to post up your impressions of:

A) the throttle cable pulling out of the pedal
B) the way the car lurches forward on it's own
C) how the insurance company will understand that the car just lurched forward on it's own into the car ahead of it at the light.

etc .

Seriously, get a Rabbit cable, build a bracket that mounts to the intake, clip the cable short, and bolt it into what you've made there at the linkage. I'm not trying to be a dick, but iffy fabrication is iffy fabrication man .

[Snatcher]

When you step on it, and the engine rocks forward...be sure to post up your impressions of:

A) the throttle cable pulling out of the pedal
B) the way the car lurches forward on it's own
C) how the insurance company will understand that the car just lurched forward on it's own into the car ahead of it at the light.

etc .

Seriously, get a Rabbit cable, build a bracket that mounts to the intake, clip the cable short, and bolt it into what you've made there at the linkage. I'm not trying to be a dick, but iffy fabrication is iffy fabrication man .

Didn't fabricate a single thing dude, about an inch of cable is inside the linkage so i doubt it's going to slip off.
Intake is too low, and the lever pulls back toward the firewall.
I am telling you this cable has the same feeling as it did before.

[B4S]

I don't doubt it feels exactly like stock.

When you hit the loud pedal while under load...do you think the engine stays in one spot? It rocks forward or backward, depending on throttle input. If the throttle cable is hard-anchored to the firewall, it can't flex...leaving the cable inside the sheath to do it. If you have full throttle movement right now, at WOT (with the engine off), what do you think will happen when you're at WOT under load, and the engine rocks forward? It's going to pull harder on the cable, and the pedal. If the cable is at it's maximum throw while sitting, what do you think will happen when it's forced to find another inch's worth of play? One of two things will happen: 1) the hook end will bend and slip out of the pedal, or 2) The throttle plates will be forced to open further than they're supposed to and will jam open.

Seriously dude, I'm only trying to help here. You'll enjoy the carb setup a LOT more if it's built correctly. Carbs can be VERY finicky, and having a less-than-perfect throttle setup will not help at all.

I've offered as much advice as I can, and since it's not my car, I will stop trying to help. I know what it's like to want the easiest way out, to get the car up and running in less time, but if it's important enough to do once...it's important enough to do right.

[Schrottplatzer]

I got my kit from Alamo motorsports. good people.

I mounted me throttle off of the intake manifold and reversed the linkage so pulling forward made more throttle.

Do you have an A/F ratio gauge set up or are you just going to read teh spark plugs to figure out your mixture These carbs are waaaaay adjustable. I'm talking 1/16 turn makes a difference. A bit of a hassle but totally worth it.

[Snatcher]

I don't doubt it feels exactly like stock.

When you hit the loud pedal while under load...do you think the engine stays in one spot? It rocks forward or backward, depending on throttle input. If the throttle cable is hard-anchored to the firewall, it can't flex...leaving the cable inside the sheath to do it. If you have full throttle movement right now, at WOT (with the engine off), what do you think will happen when you're at WOT under load, and the engine rocks forward? It's going to pull harder on the cable, and the pedal. If the cable is at it's maximum throw while sitting, what do you think will happen when it's forced to find another inch's worth of play? One of two things will happen: 1) the hook end will bend and slip out of the pedal, or 2) The throttle plates will be forced to open further than they're supposed to and will jam open.

Seriously dude, I'm only trying to help here. You'll enjoy the carb setup a LOT more if it's built correctly. Carbs can be VERY finicky, and having a less-than-perfect throttle setup will not help at all.

I've offered as much advice as I can, and since it's not my car, I will stop trying to help. I know what it's like to want the easiest way out, to get the car up and running in less time, but if it's important enough to do once...it's important enough to do right.

You got a point dude, I appreciate it you helpin' out. My friend and I got an idea of mounting in on the firewall so the cable pulls right behind it instead of an angle.

[Snatcher]

I got my kit from Alamo motorsports. good people.

I mounted me throttle off of the intake manifold and reversed the linkage so pulling forward made more throttle.

Do you have an A/F ratio gauge set up or are you just going to read teh spark plugs to figure out your mixture These carbs are waaaaay adjustable. I'm talking 1/16 turn makes a difference. A bit of a hassle but totally worth it.

Do you have pics of the linkage? Hahaha yeah i know, i got a friend with dual 45dcoe's and a tiny bit of a turn makes a huge difference. And about the air/fuel, i'm trying to get the wideband gauge, but it's like 200 bucks. i'll try to adjust it to my liking when i get it started. how do you read it by the spark plugs?

[Snatcher]

I don't doubt it feels exactly like stock.

When you hit the loud pedal while under load...do you think the engine stays in one spot? It rocks forward or backward, depending on throttle input. If the throttle cable is hard-anchored to the firewall, it can't flex...leaving the cable inside the sheath to do it. If you have full throttle movement right now, at WOT (with the engine off), what do you think will happen when you're at WOT under load, and the engine rocks forward? It's going to pull harder on the cable, and the pedal. If the cable is at it's maximum throw while sitting, what do you think will happen when it's forced to find another inch's worth of play? One of two things will happen: 1) the hook end will bend and slip out of the pedal, or 2) The throttle plates will be forced to open further than they're supposed to and will jam open.

Seriously dude, I'm only trying to help here. You'll enjoy the carb setup a LOT more if it's built correctly. Carbs can be VERY finicky, and having a less-than-perfect throttle setup will not help at all.

I've offered as much advice as I can, and since it's not my car, I will stop trying to help. I know what it's like to want the easiest way out, to get the car up and running in less time, but if it's important enough to do once...it's important enough to do right.

In other words I should leave some slack on the cable so when it launches forward it won't lock up?

[Snatcher]

Another update!
1. Adjusting the cable out so i can have more slack, thanks to B4S. Unfortunately I have no means of fabricating (no drills, no saw, no metal, and no weld to use, all i have is solder and a soldering iron)

2. Got my brembo rotors in!

ordered it from MJMautohaus. Solid rotors, it looks clean since it's brand new Gonna get new rear drums and pads/shoes once the money comes around, college is in downtown, i don't want to take any risks. Considering the fact that I have no ABS, nor airbags.

Waiting for my direct deposit to hit in so I can go buy some crimps/connectors and switches at walmart, maybe wait till morning to get some from radio shack of advance auto parts. That and my 50FT of 12 gauge wire, I should be good with wiring up everything.

[Schrottplatzer]

To read the spark plugs you have to run it for ten minutes or so at temperature; drive it, not just sitting idle. Then pull two plugs or so (to make sure you have a good picture of it) and look at the color. You want the plugs to be a light tan color. Too white and it's running lean, too dark or fouled out you are running too rich. I don't know about the temp changes where you are, but in Germany I have to retune after about every 15 degrees of average day temperature change ie. every season. I'm in Sweden now on vacation, but when I get back to Germany I'll get some pics. I have an auto tranny, so my throttle actually comes up from the tranny. To set up the linkage I reverses the way the arm on the carb swings, and brought the cable from in front of the engine and made a bracket which is bolted to the valve cover.

[Schrottplatzer]

you shouldn't need a wide band; I used a $25 gauge from summit and a $25 single wire o2 sensor. It worked ok, but I don't think it was necessary and after a year pulled the system out. Spark plugs seem to be the easiest way to gauge. Start with clean, new plugs--set of four for just $11 right now on ECStuning.com

[Snatcher]

I'm gonna go ahead and do that. thanks dude! how's germany like? i'm planning to go to france, poland, and russia with the woman and her mom to see their family and then going to germany alone to explore the country in the summer

[Svedka]

you shouldn't need a wide band; I used a $25 gauge from summit and a $25 single wire o2 sensor. It worked ok, but I don't think it was necessary and after a year pulled the system out. Spark plugs seem to be the easiest way to gauge. Start with clean, new plugs--set of four for just $11 right now on ECStuning.com

A narrow band sensor and a gauge will do nothing at all just act like a dancing light I would have took it out also it probably drove you nuts lean rich lean rich ect ect....

As for tuning off spark plugs that's for you to decide the 150-200 on a wideband that datalogs when trying to tune your car is worth every penny IMO.

B4S is 100% correct I didn't even think about the motor flex as I have always mounted my linkage on the motor.

I still am not understanding why you need switches do you not plan on using the factory wiring for the fuel pump, starter, ignition power?

[ABA Scirocco]

A narrow band sensor will reliably tell you if you're running dangerously lean or ridiculously rich which under certain specific circumstances can be very valuable information but generally speaking they're not much help tuning carbs.

[B4S]

They're useful for their original purpose, providing reasonably accurate information to the ecu for closed-loop operation, but I'd NEVER trust one for tuning WOT conditions. I'd spend a day doing plug cuts before I put my faith in a narrowband sensor again. If you want to tune for decent cruise AFRs, get a voltmeter. If the O2 reads near to 0.45v-0.5v, then you're good for economy.

Thankfully though, it's painfully difficult to blow up a naturally aspirated motor that's designed for low-grade pump gas (like the digi 1.8, lol) if you're lean for a few seconds while tuning.

[B4S]

A narrow band sensor and a gauge will do nothing at all just act like a dancing light I would have took it out also it probably drove you nuts lean rich lean rich ect ect....

It wouldn't dance on a carb setup, the fluctuations in fueling are much less severe than closed loop operation controlled by an ECU. The air coming in controls how much fuel is fed to the motor, to a degree, so it'll either be red, yellow, or green all the time...depending on the ability of the owner to tune it.

As for the switches...well, they're a quick way of getting everything to work. That's my best guess.

[Snatcher]

It wouldn't dance on a carb setup, the fluctuations in fueling are much less severe than closed loop operation controlled by an ECU. The air coming in controls how much fuel is fed to the motor, to a degree, so it'll either be red, yellow, or green all the time...depending on the ability of the owner to tune it.

As for the switches...well, they're a quick way of getting everything to work. That's my best guess.

I'm getting switches cause of the ease of wiring and switching everything on. In a few weeks or so I'm going to take out all the wires in my car and start putting back the lights and everything that's a necessity. Plus, if someone tries to break into my car, with hidden switches it will take them a longer time to take it away. As everyone knows, if someone really wants to steal car, they will do it regardless of which way they do it. With the lock door scenario, they can still get it, but the lock just adds time against them.

Gonna go for the AEM UEGO wideband analog gauge, would rather have a needle than rectangular lights going left and right. Plus the rectangle lights look to modern for and 80's car.

Thank you all, I hope you guys have a happy new year.
I will definitely try to make a bracket for the linkage, my ae86 friend told me his friend is a certified welder of some sort.

Cheers! Drink up tonight guys!

[Jettaboy1884]

In other words I should leave some slack on the cable so when it launches forward it won't lock up?

I'm not sure if someone answered this directly (although B4S explained above):

Long and short of it is that you absolutely should not mount the cable bracket to the chassis of the car. It needs to be mounted somewhere on the engine - No if's and's or butt's about it...

Unless you are running 100% solid motor mounts, your engine is going to rock forward and back under acceleration/deceleration, and different throttle positions. You'll notice that the engine rocks when you rev it by hand and the car is not in gear or going anywhere. Now, when you are driving and there is a true load at the wheels, the engine rocks even more. Have you ever driven with the hood off the car? It's surprising how much the engine moves under load...

So, you must have that end of the cable housing mounted to the engine. Trying to band-aid the situation by making slack in the cable isn't actually going to do anything. Routing the cable correctly will save you a lot of headache later.

On a side note: Your local bicycle shop should have a plethora of little cable fittings.

[lhcVdub]

subscribed

[Snatcher]

I'm not sure if someone answered this directly (although B4S explained above):

Long and short of it is that you absolutely should not mount the cable bracket to the chassis of the car. It needs to be mounted somewhere on the engine - No if's and's or butt's about it...

Unless you are running 100% solid motor mounts, your engine is going to rock forward and back under acceleration/deceleration, and different throttle positions. You'll notice that the engine rocks when you rev it by hand and the car is not in gear or going anywhere. Now, when you are driving and there is a true load at the wheels, the engine rocks even more. Have you ever driven with the hood off the car? It's surprising how much the engine moves under load...

So, you must have that end of the cable housing mounted to the engine. Trying to band-aid the situation by making slack in the cable isn't actually going to do anything. Routing the cable correctly will save you a lot of headache later.

On a side note: Your local bicycle shop should have a plethora of little cable fittings.

I have the bbm front soild mount! Not a 100% I know. It's that I have no idea where mount it so it pulls back. There's like no space. Maybe where the return spring is located? Putting a bracket over that? But how is the cable going to pull from such a sharp angle?

[Snatcher]

update. wiring everything up, about to mount the carb pump, got a headache from the fuel return line, and the catch can line i'm assuming? might need to get some fuel line. wire it up, fuse in between line and bam should be started soon. wiring is fun, making grounds without a drill isn't :/

[Snatcher]

Wired everything up, getting full, turning over, but I don't think I'm getting spark, maybe I need to advance my timing? Help please?

[ps2375]

If you are not getting spark, advancing timing will do no good. You need to determine if you are getting spark and if not, find out why.

[Snatcher]

If you are not getting spark, advancing timing will do no good. You need to determine if you are getting spark and if not, find out why.

take out the spark plug and see if it sparks right? that's how check?

well i know webers like a different kid of timing i think it prefers retarded timing. I'll check again!

[ps2375]

Pull a plug and see if it has spark, or you can hook up a timing light and see if it flash that means it has spark, just like when you set the timing. And I doubt a certain carb want different timing than another carb or injection.

[buffalobill1138]

what is the website for where u bought the carb and intke from

[Snatcher]

Pull a plug and see if it has spark, or you can hook up a timing light and see if it flash that means it has spark, just like when you set the timing. And I doubt a certain carb want different timing than another carb or injection.

I'm not getting any spark :/

i think it's the connection of the coil since the nipple of it is pretty long (haha, srsly now though)
gonna try it without the icm and stock coil. i'll check it out tomorrow after i get out of work. I go in at 4:30am EST >.< damn starbucks

[Snatcher]

what is the website for where u bought the carb and intke from

black forest industries! tell them my vortex name! I want free stickers <.< hahaha GL

[zachass o2]

do they make these for the 2.slow mkiii?????

[Snatcher]

do they make these for the 2.slow mkiii?????

i dont think so, i've seen some guys do dual side drafts for it. it just seems more fitting, but it's possible. the downdraft would like kinda weird if you ask me.. get a 16v head, gasket, arp studs, side drafts and go from there 2.slow will be keeping up with vr6's. there's a dude with bike carbs on his 16v, didn't have WOT and had a bad clutch, and got ahead of a vr lighter engine, 2 cylinders less. a little more money or around the same, and the spirit of being an underdog. DO IT lol.

just have to source a manifold if you want to do a downdraft

[zachass o2]

i dont think so, i've seen some guys do dual side drafts for it. it just seems more fitting, but it's possible. the downdraft would like kinda weird if you ask me.. get a 16v head, gasket, arp studs, side drafts and go from there 2.slow will be keeping up with vr6's. there's a dude with bike carbs on his 16v, didn't have WOT and had a bad clutch, and got ahead of a vr lighter engine, 2 cylinders less. a little more money or around the same, and the spirit of being an underdog. DO IT lol.

just have to source a manifold if you want to do a downdraft

i havent looked into the 16v head much, but from what ive heard i thought that the 16v needed a conversion kit to be put onto the 2liter???

[Snatcher]

i havent looked into the 16v head much, but from what ive heard i thought that the 16v needed a conversion kit to be put onto the 2liter???

you'll need the dizzy gizzy, since the distributor is on the block instead of the cam. the water neck, and other misc stuff. go to bahnbrennermotorsport dot com, hybrid parts. and it's all there. there's a kit for it

[YJSAABMAN]

i havent looked into the 16v head much, but from what ive heard i thought that the 16v needed a conversion kit to be put onto the 2liter???

You also need to watch your compression ratio putting a 16V head on an ABA block. IIRC they make good turbo engines at around 8.5:1 compression.

[Svedka]

You also need to watch your compression ratio putting a 16V head on an ABA block. IIRC they make good turbo engines at around 8.5:1 compression.

IF anyone wants to know about the 16v aba here is some info
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ssion-8.5-1%29

[Snatcher]

HUGE UPDATE GUYS! WE HAVE COMBUSTION.....on cylinder 3

Found out why i wasn't getting spark. inline fuse was blown. along with all the fuses i bought, POS fuses, F-them MSD works, you can ask my friends as they felt the spark hands on while I was reading the multimeter. Their reaction was PRICELESS.

For some WEIRD reason, the #3 sparkplug wire sends out spark, but 1,2,and 4 don't. Cap and rotor malfunction? Going to get it hopefully in the am if advanced isn't closed for MLK day Could it be the timing on my intermediate shaft as well? I think that may have moved a bit when i was putting on the timing belt, maybe the timing overall? Feed back would be awesome. This is the only thing setting me back from starting the car.

Thanks in advance guys