Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 2 of 43 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
    Results 26 to 50 of 1059

    Thread: Buy and selling physical gold and silver

    1. Member rdubtheislander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 26th, 2008
      Posts
      1,312
      Vehicles
      2015 GTI SE DSG & Lighting (Past: 2012 Golf with Convience / 2007 Jetta)
      12-08-2010 01:53 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      No. I have a hard time comprehending someone who, in one post, completely contradicts themselves.
      Your problem is that you have a hard time comprehending what precious metals are used for.

      Gold is for your age-old pension, silver is to trade the ratio. Gold as a store of value against a dollar that is continuing to lose value (since 1913), and silver as a industrial commodity that is also considered a monetary unit. You can preserve purchasing power with gold and silver. You have the ability to increase purchasing power with silver.

      You also fail to realize that bubbles have not formed with these particular commodities. Their respective bullmarkets are just beginning. Will bubbles eventually form and pop? Yes. But you have a hard time understanding that the Federal Reserve Note note is the biggest bubble of them all. Therefore, those who associate themselves with it (besides using them to buy food or pay bills) and try to preserve their wealth in derivatives that are based off of the Federal Reserve Note (401k, Bonds, Mutual Funds, traditional savings account, etc) stand to lose the most when the dollar bubble pops. This is because the Federal Reserve Note has no value, and thus all derivatives of the Federal Reserve Note also have no value.
      It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. - Henry Ford

    2. 12-08-2010 02:12 PM #27
      If you are looking for an inflation hedge there are alternative investments to Gold. Many portfolios are looking at hospitality reits since hotels can be a hedge against inflation.

      BRENT

    3. Member rdubtheislander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 26th, 2008
      Posts
      1,312
      Vehicles
      2015 GTI SE DSG & Lighting (Past: 2012 Golf with Convience / 2007 Jetta)
      12-08-2010 02:19 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by spookygeek View Post
      If you are looking for an inflation hedge there are alternative investments to Gold. Many portfolios are looking at hospitality reits since hotels can be a hedge against inflation.

      BRENT
      Anything is better than holding paper currency. Including properties, even though they will eventually deflate.

      You should go further and explain how a hotel is a good inflation hedge.
      It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. - Henry Ford

    4. 12-08-2010 02:38 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by rdubtheislander View Post
      Anything is better than holding paper currency.
      Since this paper you have is so worthless, if I send you a self-addressed stamped envelope can you send me all your worthless paper?

    5. Member rdubtheislander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 26th, 2008
      Posts
      1,312
      Vehicles
      2015 GTI SE DSG & Lighting (Past: 2012 Golf with Convience / 2007 Jetta)
      12-08-2010 03:02 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Since this paper you have is so worthless, if I send you a self-addressed stamped envelope can you send me all your worthless paper?
      We'll continue this discussion later. I'm going to go buy some silver.
      It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. - Henry Ford

    6. Member titleist1976's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 25th, 2002
      Posts
      10,579
      Vehicles
      Mini R55 S, Honda Pilot
      12-08-2010 03:06 PM #31
      OMG, this thread is full of awesome on my screen... I can literally see three posts.

    7. Senior Member SAPJetta's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 3rd, 2001
      Location
      East Bay, CA
      Posts
      27,040
      Vehicles
      2008 Rabbit S(low), 2012 Outback 2.5 Premium
      12-08-2010 03:56 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      OMG, this thread is full of awesome on my screen... I can literally see three posts.
      LOL. I was just thinking the same thing....
      Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

    8. Member NZTIGUAN's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 22nd, 2008
      Location
      Alexandra, New Zealand
      Posts
      2,555
      Vehicles
      2013 Tiguan 07 Suzi Swift
      12-08-2010 04:06 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by rdubtheislander View Post
      We'll continue this discussion later. I'm going to go buy some silver.
      You're absolutely wasting your breath with Riot, he doesn't get it and never will (not until it's too late anyway). He simply believes what the Fed and the Govt tells him, that they can just print money for ever and there will never be a "judgement day". Not sure what he blames for the current World wide collapse of paper money and the subsequent increasing value of virtually all commodities including pm,s (inflation).

      Let's face it, we all have our beliefs based on our understanding of the information we take in every day. I'm sure we all feel we have it figured out and all have our reasons for that. Truth is, none of us are "certain" of the future and this uncertainty is, in my view anyway, the biggest problem in the World's financial system. 50 years ago, interest rates were minimal, jobs were plentiful, everything was on the up and up, and our parents and grandparents were pretty happy and content with their lot.

      Now, we are all full of doubts, paper money is no longer backed by "anything" except hope and goodwill, and those commodities (hope and goodwill) can no longer be relied on. Until the "system" is restructured and people and their labour valued over pieces of paper and "bling" we will all just blunder on in the dark, hoping that "we" have the answer to a question that has yet to be asked.
      Derek
      Alexandra New Zealand
      Second Tig, 2013, TDi, Auto, night blue, park assist 2, auto lights and wipers, RCD510, fogs, tow pack
      http://www.alexandra.co.nz/

    9. 12-08-2010 04:47 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      He simply believes what the Fed and the Govt tells him, that they can just print money for ever and there will never be a "judgement day".
      I'm afraid its far more nuanced than fed = bad, gold = good. But I have a feeling nuance isn't rdubislanders strong suit.

    10. 12-08-2010 04:48 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      Now, we are all full of doubts, paper money is no longer backed by "anything" except hope and goodwill, and those commodities (hope and goodwill) can no longer be relied on.
      So I have to ask then. What is gold backed by?

    11. Member NZTIGUAN's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 22nd, 2008
      Location
      Alexandra, New Zealand
      Posts
      2,555
      Vehicles
      2013 Tiguan 07 Suzi Swift
      12-08-2010 06:46 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      So I have to ask then. What is gold backed by?
      Its intrinsic value because of its rarity and the difficulty in obtaining it. As I've said before it doesn't HAVE to be gold or silver, ANY commodity has greater intrinsic value than a piece of paper that becomes even less valuable the more you print of it (which is of course exactly what the Fed are doing !!).
      Derek
      Alexandra New Zealand
      Second Tig, 2013, TDi, Auto, night blue, park assist 2, auto lights and wipers, RCD510, fogs, tow pack
      http://www.alexandra.co.nz/

    12. 12-09-2010 12:22 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      Its intrinsic value because of its rarity and the difficulty in obtaining it. As I've said before it doesn't HAVE to be gold or silver, ANY commodity has greater intrinsic value than a piece of paper that becomes even less valuable the more you print of it (which is of course exactly what the Fed are doing !!).
      Ok, let's use wheat then. Wait, someone can just grow more to make as much as they want! What do we do now?

      Btw, there might be a money shortage. The Treasury just had to toss the new hundred dollar bill due to some printing error costing $137.5 million in printing costs. I don't really understand how paying to print money works. You'd think they would just print the amount they need, plus the printing costs, thereby being virtually free.

    13. 12-09-2010 11:31 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      So let me see if I have this straight. You buy gold with dollars losing the opportunity to invest in an interest bearing account, pay a premium over the spot price, plus handling fees and monthly storage/insurance fees. It pays no interest, no dividend and has no intrinsic value or usefulness outside of being pretty if formed into jewelry. You then keep it until such time that there is complete economic melt down, when you hope to convince someone else to take your useless, heavy hunk of rock in trade ...........
      I do not understand the part about handling fees and monthly storage. Do you have to pay for these when you buy gold in the US?

      I think the reason why Gold and Silver are consumed in such vast quantities in India is that it is a not a rigid instrument as you think it is. I am not trying to debate with you, I am just trying to tell you that Gold does not have any special handling fees or storage fees in other parts of the world.

      1) You buy gold as coins-1gm/5gm/10gm and you pay spot + little markup.
      2) You keep it at home or in a bank deposit box.
      3) It appreciates in value and when you have a need for it, you take the coins to your nearest bank who will gladly convert them into money for you at prevailing spot prices.
      4) If you have the money you buy MORE of it on auspicious occasions.

      If there is a wedding or any other function in your family that needs gold you take a few of those coins and tell the jeweler (I need this made into jewelery and he will charge you what they call the "making charge" not the cost of raw material or gold). That jewelery too has an intrinsic monetary value, a Bank Assessor will use it as collateral or will convert that into money if you need it. So it's not being hoarded for some end of the world scenario its being used every day.

      At the wedding the closest family and friends will ONLY give you gold (rings or necklace or coins) the rest will give you a tea set.

      Gold is multi-generational. I have seen the gold given to my mother and her mother and I have been told who gave what and when.

      You do not need to be an MBA to understand how to use gold in India, ever the poor and illiterate know how to use it. They buy it, store it and use it when it becomes necessary and buy more of it no matter what the price is.

      Oh and gold is NEVER held as paper or ETF or whatever, if you buy gold you will have it in your possession.
      Last edited by mungee; 12-09-2010 at 11:36 AM.

    14. Member NZTIGUAN's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 22nd, 2008
      Location
      Alexandra, New Zealand
      Posts
      2,555
      Vehicles
      2013 Tiguan 07 Suzi Swift
      12-09-2010 03:16 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Ok, let's use wheat then. Wait, someone can just grow more to make as much as they want! What do we do now?
      EXACTLY, just like PAPER MONEY !!!! That's the whole point of having a commodity that is in relatively short supply AND reasonably difficult to obtain and THAT'S why pms have ALWAYS been the "base" for money.

      So pleased you're finally getting the idea !!!
      Derek
      Alexandra New Zealand
      Second Tig, 2013, TDi, Auto, night blue, park assist 2, auto lights and wipers, RCD510, fogs, tow pack
      http://www.alexandra.co.nz/

    15. 12-09-2010 04:58 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      As I've said before it doesn't HAVE to be gold or silver, ANY commodity has greater intrinsic value than a piece of paper.
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      That's the whole point of having a commodity that is in relatively short supply AND reasonably difficult to obtain...
      So you first state any commodity that has greater intrinsic value than a piece of paper will do (in all caps no less) and when I give you one (wheat) you now say it has to be in relatively short supply and difficult to obtain. Why would you want the currency to be in short supply and in complete control by the mining industry (known for its integrity )? A shortage of currency is exactly what dragged out the great depression for as long as it did.

      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      So pleased you're finally getting the idea !!!
      What idea is that? You seem to be thrashing at this point continually moving the goal posts.

    16. Member NZTIGUAN's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 22nd, 2008
      Location
      Alexandra, New Zealand
      Posts
      2,555
      Vehicles
      2013 Tiguan 07 Suzi Swift
      12-09-2010 05:46 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Why would you want the currency to be in short supply and in complete control by the mining industry (known for its integrity )? A shortage of currency is exactly what dragged out the great depression for as long as it did..
      So you're happy with the paper money controlled by politicians, banks, and in your case, the Fed are you !! And presumably you think that the money men of America have it right and that the entire World that relied on pms for 3,000 years is wrong ? things ONLY started going pear shaped once the American politicians got involved at Bretton Woods and then "delinked" from the gold standard. The Fed and its cronies have destabilised the entire World's economy in 40 years. Great system eh !!
      Derek
      Alexandra New Zealand
      Second Tig, 2013, TDi, Auto, night blue, park assist 2, auto lights and wipers, RCD510, fogs, tow pack
      http://www.alexandra.co.nz/

    17. 12-09-2010 05:55 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      So you're happy with the paper money controlled by politicians, banks, and in your case, the Fed are you !! And presumably you think that the money men of America have it right and that the entire World that relied on pms for 3,000 years is wrong ? things ONLY started going pear shaped once the American politicians got involved at Bretton Woods and then "delinked" from the gold standard. The Fed and its cronies have destabilised the entire World's economy in 40 years. Great system eh !!
      I think you can tell from my previous posts that no, I am not happy with the way things are currently. But by obsessing about PMs, you are just making the same mistake but with a different commodity. If gold is the currency then all power is in the hands of the mining companies as they would hold the world's wealth. Hardly a good solution to the problems we are facing. Do you not know what happened before fiat currency and people kept their gold at the bank?

    18. 12-09-2010 06:31 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      So I have to ask then. What is gold backed by?
      Gold is backed by TRUE ENERGY, TIME AND LABOR. What an honest money should be.

      You are a troll, a_riot. Your understanding of facts mimics that of an intellectual fraud which is what you are.

    19. 12-09-2010 06:53 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      Gold is backed by TRUE ENERGY, TIME AND LABOR. What an honest money should be.

      You are a troll, a_riot. Your understanding of facts mimics that of an intellectual fraud which is what you are.
      Glad to see you aren't resorting to pure ad hominem when you have no argument. So whose time and labor are we talking about?

    20. 12-09-2010 07:21 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Glad to see you aren't resorting to pure ad hominem when you have no argument. So whose time and labor are we talking about?

      I knew you were clueless but man...this tops it all. Time, Energy and Labor must be spent to create something of a value. To store this value, money must be created in same honest way. Still don't get it? If you don't then that is your problem. Don't come here knocking people down when you are the one who needs learning starting from the basics. Mr. Derivatives!

    21. 12-09-2010 07:59 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      I knew you were clueless but man...this tops it all. Time, Energy and Labor must be spent to create something of a value. To store this value, money must be created in same honest way. Still don't get it? If you don't then that is your problem. Don't come here knocking people down when you are the one who needs learning starting from the basics. Mr. Derivatives!
      So if all the time, labor and energy costs $350 an oz to get the gold out of the ground, how much is it worth as currency? If you use current gold prices, then its ~$1350. Talk about inflation!

    22. Member NZTIGUAN's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 22nd, 2008
      Location
      Alexandra, New Zealand
      Posts
      2,555
      Vehicles
      2013 Tiguan 07 Suzi Swift
      12-09-2010 09:37 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      So if all the time, labor and energy costs $350 an oz to get the gold out of the ground, how much is it worth as currency? If you use current gold prices, then its ~$1350. Talk about inflation!
      OK, I for one concede defeat, you've brought me down to your level of stupidity and beaten me with your experience. I'll keep all my gold and silver and you keep all your paper and we'll see who's smiling in a year or two.

      Seriously, I LOVE a good argument with somebody who has the intellect to make a sensible response and I have no problem with people having a counter view to mine, this is how we all live and learn, but even "trying" to get some clarity with you is like trying to pick a blackhead off my arse while down a coal mine at midnight and wearing boxing gloves, you're simply too determined to be ignorant for me to be bothered trying to change you.
      Derek
      Alexandra New Zealand
      Second Tig, 2013, TDi, Auto, night blue, park assist 2, auto lights and wipers, RCD510, fogs, tow pack
      http://www.alexandra.co.nz/

    23. 12-09-2010 09:47 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      OK, I for one concede defeat, you've brought me down to your level of stupidity and beaten me with your experience. I'll keep all my gold and silver and you keep all your paper and we'll see who's smiling in a year or two.

      Seriously, I LOVE a good argument with somebody who has the intellect to make a sensible response and I have no problem with people having a counter view to mine, this is how we all live and learn, but even "trying" to get some clarity with you is like trying to pick a blackhead off my arse while down a coal mine at midnight and wearing boxing gloves, you're simply too determined to be ignorant for me to be bothered trying to change you.
      Enough with the histrionics already. Just answer the questions I asked. That is, if you can.

    24. Member rdubtheislander's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 26th, 2008
      Posts
      1,312
      Vehicles
      2015 GTI SE DSG & Lighting (Past: 2012 Golf with Convience / 2007 Jetta)
      12-10-2010 04:19 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      A shortage of currency is exactly what dragged out the great depression for as long as it did.
      We used gold and silver in those days. Being a brown dude, I often wonder what life would have been like living from the 1900's to the 1960's. In one aspect, it sucked because there was massive ignorance and racism based on background or where one originated from. It is truly a tragedy. While women were earning the right to vote and people of color were making their voices heard, people of all backgrounds were losing more freedom by having the quality of their money diminish.

      In a couple of years when America has a hyper-inflationary Depression onset by this continuing monetizing of debt, I will ponder the victory of civil rights. We won some victories, but we also had huge losses. After the Federal Reserve Note decoupled from the dollar, the standard of the living of Americans has continued to decline. Meanwhile, nations like China and India encourage their people to buy commodities and save. Their standard of living rises as a result. In the not too distant American future, whites, blacks, gays, lesbians, and people of all backgrounds will have the unique opportunity to realize that they are servants to masters of a far greater power. This is why it is extremely important that more people learn about the third Central Bank and what it has done to the American experience in the 98 years of its existence.

      After World War 1, America was in relatively good shape, while Europe was in ruin. The newly formed third Central Bank of America, the Federal Reserve System (created in 1913), had received a large shipment of gold from its sister bank the Bank of England (created in 1694) as payment for the war. These quantities of gold stayed housed in the Federal Reserve Systems regional banks, pillars of the Federal Reserve System that were inadvertantly created by Lincoln during the Civil War after he used the Constitution and the Treasury to create green backs as an alternative to receiving financing for the war effort against the south by the Rothschild-controlled Bank of England and France.

      The Great Depression was intentinally allowed to happen by the third Central Bank in order to have greater control of the people. The first step was to take tangible assets out of their hands by use of easy credit and speculation on the stock market. (in those days, insider trading was not illegal) By putting down only 10% of gold or silver-backed money, the American citizen could borrow immense sums of money through the process of fractional reserve banking, which they used to bid up stocks on the stock market. When the insiders pulled the rug from under these folks and had immense sell offs when the price was to their liking, many people lost everything. In desperation to pay what they owe, they withdrew money from their bank accounts, creating bank runs. As banks continued to have more people withdrawing money but not enough reserves due to the process of fractional reserve banking, they failed. The gold that had been allocated from Great Britain during World War 1 was not introduced into the money supply, and as a result the money supply contracted by 30%. They remained in their vaults, locked away. The lender of last resort intentionally failed at what it was supposed to do. We all know what happens next. Gold gets taken away from the people, Bretton Woods, bull**** Income Tax, massive government spending on programs, Social Security, and stimulus. When they did not work, we entered into World War II and that was the only thing that pulled us out of the Great Depression. It also allowed those who run the Central Banks to create banks in other ravaged nations like Japan, which function similar to the Federal Reserve System and Bank of England.

      I could go on and on, but the point is clear. You aren't born understanding this stuff. It can only be understood with time and experience. A whole new generation of Americans and people all over the world are going to get fleeced. Only this time, with 6 billion+ mouths and scarce commodities as it is for over 1 billion right now, the end result has the potential to be much more devastating.

      As an American, you have an obligation to understand and comprehend the danger of the situation by having the IRS tax you to death, the third Central Bank destroy the value of your money, the FBI and CIA watching/monitoring what you do and creating a database with information about you, and letting the TSA feel you up in the airport. There is much that needs to be addressed and if this is not done future generations will pay the price with slavery to a system so interlinked that with advancements in technology it will be almost impossible to stop, as slavery will begin from birth.

      "From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." -- Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913
      Last edited by rdubtheislander; 12-10-2010 at 04:25 AM.
      It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. - Henry Ford

    25. 12-10-2010 12:21 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by rdubtheislander View Post
      We used gold and silver in those days.

      Thanks for the history lesson, but my questions remain unanswered. You don't think the same thing that is happening with frn's can't happen with pm's? You are naive.

    Page 2 of 43 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •