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    Thread: Buy and selling physical gold and silver

    1. 01-29-2011 02:29 PM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      please direct me to a gold coin or bullion buyer that will give me fair market pricing

      did you fail Economics 101? Your statement above is complete hogwash. Price Searcher, Price Discriminator & Price Taker. All three exist in any market. Even in black market.

      Your bs comment above, framed in pseudo economics jargon(I say pseudo, because you fail to understand the basic definition) basically tells me you have absolutely NO IDEA how the precious metals market works or any market for that matter. It's not market's obligation to find you a buyer or a seller. It's your job!

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      01-29-2011 07:19 PM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      did you fail Economics 101? Your statement above is complete hogwash. Price Searcher, Price Discriminator & Price Taker. All three exist in any market. Even in black market.

      Your bs comment above, framed in pseudo economics jargon(I say pseudo, because you fail to understand the basic definition) basically tells me you have absolutely NO IDEA how the precious metals market works or any market for that matter. It's not market's obligation to find you a buyer or a seller. It's your job!

      No, what you're doing is not answering the question. Instead of saying "here's a company that is interested in buying physical gold with prices paid near the market value," you're throwing a whole bunch of theory bs and some insults, thus actually proving my question as legitimate. You have no answer, do you?
      So, oh brilliant economist, please enlighten us how i would go about finding a buyer for this gold? Is there some company that can help me? Or do i need to attend one of the "secret gold hoarding club" meetings with a briefcase chained to my wrist? How do i sell the physical gold that i have in my posession, within the next week or so, for something close to the $1330/oz like the market is?
      Last edited by mad8vskillz; 01-29-2011 at 09:05 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      01-30-2011 10:30 AM #128
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      please direct me to a gold coin or bullion buyer that will give me fair market pricing
      Apmex actively buys for just less than the spot price, minimum transaction of $1000.

      Here.
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      01-30-2011 09:36 PM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by ab8349 View Post
      Apmex actively buys for just less than the spot price, minimum transaction of $1000.

      Here.
      see there's a legit answer, instead of spouting off questionable gospel ab8349 suggested a buyer
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      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    5. 01-30-2011 10:53 PM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by Gtiupb2002 View Post
      Yes I will once the government deems it worthless, which at this rate will be soon
      Once the gov't deems its worthless? Won't ever happen.

      Quote Originally Posted by Gtiupb2002 View Post
      I will agree with you here, the only thing here is you can't make more gold but we can just keep printing money and the more they print the more useless it becomes.
      Don't need to make more gold. You will take your gold to a bank vault to store and protect it and they will give you a gold IOU which you will then use to spend on things you need. The bank will lend out your gold to worthy borrowers at interest by giving them gold IOUs. Of course, before long they will lend out more gold IOUs than there is gold in the vault and the whole thing starts all over again. Without an honest money supply, the material that you use to store value is irrelevant.

      Quote Originally Posted by Gtiupb2002 View Post
      I guess people have imagined gold having value for thousands of years? Ok fine but it will continue to hold value in peoples imagination.
      The important question is how much value? Only 10 years ago gold's value was 1/5 of today's value. Nobody wanted the ruddy metal. You could buy it for less than it cost to mine and process. If you are buying a lot of gold right now you better hope people's imagination values it higher later on and doesn't fall back to what it was only 10 years ago, or you will have lost 80% of your net worth.

      Quote Originally Posted by Gtiupb2002 View Post
      Maybe wallstreet puts a price on gold, but either way it will always be viewed as a monetary symbol and once paper money is no longer I am willing to bet that gold will be the new money again and im sure silver will be right there with it
      I'm not even sure what that means. Gold will be viewed as a monetary symbol? No, it will be viewed as a commodity like its always been and its value will depend on people's imagination as you stated above.

      Even if gold turns out to be the next material used as money, gold will simply be the next fiat currency and controlled by the gov't so what difference does it make? You are then back where you started.

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      01-31-2011 09:22 AM #131
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Now that the price of gold and silver extended their year-to-date declines to 6.3% and 13.5%, respectively, what I think will happen is that gold will bounce around in this range for a while, until interest rates are increased which is now looking like a distinct possibility soon. Once that happens, the price of gold will start to collapse and the speculators will be shorting it all the way back down to its mean price. Joe Q Public, convinced that gold came with a guarantee by geniuses like you, will get caught in the long squeeze hastening its fall back to earth. Btw, I got a raise to $12.50/hr.
      Wow! a_riot wrote something I agree with. ...and it's not 2012 yet.

      I don't see much difference between the real estate bubble and the gold & silver bubble. You can make lots of money if you have the good fortune of timing the cycle. It's ugly if you are the last person in and the bubble bursts. In the long term, real assets more or less track the core inflation rate. In the long term, you do better investing in well-managed corporations where the company is growing at least as fast as the economy is growing.

    7. 01-31-2011 09:56 AM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      please direct me to a gold coin or bullion buyer that will give me fair market pricing
      The buyer I used for my silver hoard paid spot minus $0.15 per troy oz minus $0.35 troy oz assay fee up to $35, then $.10 per oz there after. This was about 5 years ago when silver was $5 something. I brought in BUCKETS full of scrap silver. Had I been smart? I would have traded that for gold coin. ( hovering at $300 at that point) Then sold the gold several years later and bought Ford stock. Then.....

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      02-01-2011 04:20 AM #133


      this picture reminds me of someone on this thread...


      anyways I have been looking into buying/investing into silver or a "PM" of some sort.
      I understand and agree the price of silver and gold undoubtedly will go up in time(sure it goes up n down) but I understand it has a general rise

      Can someone break it down for me as for when to buy?

      I know "selling" isnt really advisable but, where do you sell it once you think its time or have an emergency?

      I wish I could get into the gold market but, me like almost everyone else dont have the $ for that. anyways is this investment supposed to pay off in your life-time?

      I'm not in for it for the post-apocalyptic as much as I am retirement sort of thing.
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      02-01-2011 12:51 PM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      instead of spouting off questionable gospel ab8349 suggested a buyer
      ever heard of ebay?

    10. 02-01-2011 01:02 PM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      what I think will happen is that gold will bounce around in this range for a while, until interest rates are increased which is now looking like a distinct possibility soon. Once that happens, the price of gold will start to collapse and the speculators will be shorting it all the way back down to its mean price. Joe Q Public, convinced that gold came with a guarantee by geniuses like you, will get caught in the long squeeze hastening its fall back to earth. Btw, I got a raise to $12.50/hr.
      With that forecast you just buried your credibility here once again Mr. Derivative.

      Volker would've raised the rate before he quit advising bunch of Goldmanites in WH if it was possible. You are absolutely clueless as to why now FED is on QE2, aka operation "Negative Real Interest Rate"

      Distinct Possibility Soon, did you say? I will bring the post of yours above time and time again just to prove how utterly clueless you are.

      US have chosen Hyperinflation over Real Interest Rate hike simply for the fact that any rise in real interest rate will threaten the government's ability to service it's debt. Whereas printing money silently taxes population. And you believe the real interest rate will rise? Soon? Distinct possibility? ROFLMAO Ummm......$15 trillion dollars soon dude!. Can you tell the board what is mere 4% interest on $15trillion is?

      Genius! Seriously. Stick to your day job.

    11. 02-01-2011 02:49 PM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      With that forecast you just buried your credibility here once again Mr. Derivative.

      Volker would've raised the rate before he quit advising bunch of Goldmanites in WH if it was possible. You are absolutely clueless as to why now FED is on QE2, aka operation "Negative Real Interest Rate"

      Distinct Possibility Soon, did you say? I will bring the post of yours above time and time again just to prove how utterly clueless you are.
      Thanks again for your compliments, you are far too generous with them. However, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that the Fed sets interest rates. I can understand this, as this is what you have been led to believe by the media. But its actually the market itself that sets rates not the Fed. The Fed follows the market, they have no choice. Watch the 3 month start to climb over the next couple of months and watch Bernanke have to respond in kind.

      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      US have chosen Hyperinflation over Real Interest Rate hike simply for the fact that any rise in real interest rate will threaten the government's ability to service it's debt. Whereas printing money silently taxes population. And you believe the real interest rate will rise? Soon? Distinct possibility? ROFLMAO Ummm......$15 trillion dollars soon dude!. Can you tell the board what is mere 4% interest on $15trillion is?
      Now here you've gone and contradicted yourself again. According to you, rates won't rise since that would theaten servicing the debt. What you have forgotten is that the debt is serviced in US currency. If interest rates rise, and the debt gets more expensive, they will pay for it in USD which is always available since they can just print more, as you so often mention over and over, ad nauseum. See how it works? Pretty clever really.

    12. 02-01-2011 08:28 PM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Now here you've gone and contradicted yourself again. According to you, rates won't rise since that would theaten servicing the debt. What you have forgotten is that the debt is serviced in US currency. If interest rates rise, and the debt gets more expensive, they will pay for it in USD which is always available since they can just print more, as you so often mention over and over, ad nauseum. See how it works? Pretty clever really.

      NO, I have been very clear here. Real interest rate has been stuck at zero/negative for many years now. They can't raise it simply because, excluding all social entitlement obligation, interest payment alone on national debt will wipe out all federal income tax collected then some. What you are describing is theoretical. Name me a single incident in history where a country in brink of currency collapse chose to raise rate then print the %@#* out of their currency. NONE. The debt will be serviced through hyperinflation. That is the only way. And debasement of Dollar is what is certain. Now, nuff schooling you over this subject. Please stick to your day job. I get that you kinda got the whole world figured out with your brain that earns $12.5/hr. Nothing but respect to you in that regards but do not pretend to know something you absolutely have no idea of. It stinks.

      Back to main subject, silver and gold. US Mint sold absolute record amnt of silver eagles in Jan 2011

      http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/...ales&year=2011

    13. 02-01-2011 09:59 PM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      NO, I have been very clear here. Real interest rate has been stuck at zero/negative for many years now. They can't raise it simply because, excluding all social entitlement obligation, interest payment alone on national debt will wipe out all federal income tax collected then some. What you are describing is theoretical. Name me a single incident in history where a country in brink of currency collapse chose to raise rate then print the %@#* out of their currency. NONE. The debt will be serviced through hyperinflation. That is the only way. And debasement of Dollar is what is certain. Now, nuff schooling you over this subject. Please stick to your day job. I get that you kinda got the whole world figured out with your brain that earns $12.5/hr. Nothing but respect to you in that regards but do not pretend to know something you absolutely have no idea of. It stinks.

      Thanks again for all the accolades, its really quite flattering.

      In regards to your comment about interest rates and currency, there is a very well known correlation that perhaps you've never been made aware of between the value of a country's currency and interest rates. You see, as investment confidence in a country falls the risk of investing in that country goes up. If an investor will lose a percentage of their investment simply due to currency devaluation, then they will want a higher interest rate to compensate. Its quite simple really. So as the USD falls, rates will have to increase to prevent an exodus of money leaving the country which would be bad for the economy on many levels. I don't follow why you keep saying "They can't raise it" if by "they" you mean the Fed since the Fed adjusts rates according to what the market is doing not the other way around. If the market demands higher rates in exchange for increased risk, the Fed won't have much of a choice. They hope this doesn't happen as it will destroy US housing prices further, leading to more bank failures, and they can try to prop up the stock market to spur investment, but eventually if confidence wanes, rates will have to go up and probably quite quickly. At that point, your precious metals will become semi-precious at best.

      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      Back to main subject, silver and gold. US Mint sold absolute record amnt of silver eagles in Jan 2011
      Yes and the price of silver has done nothing but go down. What does this tell you? It tells me its the dumb money doing all the buying.

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      02-01-2011 10:51 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      US have chosen Hyperinflation over Real Interest Rate hike simply for the fact that any rise in real interest rate will threaten the government's ability to service it's debt. Whereas printing money silently taxes population.
      The problem is that the US debt is mostly short-term. The average maturity of sovereign debt is about 3 years. Hyperinflation won't do much to erode the debt because it will soon mature and be re-issued at much higher interest rates. If there is hyperinflation, the US won't be able to borrow money at low interest rates. The bonds/notes at an artificially low interest rate would sell at a steep discount at auction to account for the inflation rate. The market dictates interest rates, not the federal government.

      Because of that, I don't think we're in for hyperinflation. I think we're in for a more subdued single digit inflation. 5% to 6% inflation over a decade will fix the housing problem and erode wages of the middle class to make them competitive on the world market.

    15. 02-03-2011 11:58 AM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      The problem is that the US debt is mostly short-term. The average maturity of sovereign debt is about 3 years. Hyperinflation won't do much to erode the debt because it will soon mature and be re-issued at much higher interest rates. If there is hyperinflation, the US won't be able to borrow money at low interest rates. The bonds/notes at an artificially low interest rate would sell at a steep discount at auction to account for the inflation rate. The market dictates interest rates, not the federal government.

      Because of that, I don't think we're in for hyperinflation. I think we're in for a more subdued single digit inflation. 5% to 6% inflation over a decade will fix the housing problem and erode wages of the middle class to make them competitive on the world market.


      I want one thing clear. I don't think neither you or a_riot understand the difference between real interest rate and nominal interest rate. Above I referred to real interest rate which is expressed in simple formula;

      ri = ni-ir it says Real Interest Rate is equal to Nominal Interest Rate minus Inflation Rate

      ir= [CPI(this year) – CPI(last year)] / CPI(last year)]

      Guess where our real interest rate will be even if the rate is to go up as inflation accelerates?
      Anyone who wants to understand the real inflation rate, I suggest that you visit http://www.shadowstats.com/


    16. 02-03-2011 12:27 PM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      I want one thing clear. I don't think neither you or a_riot understand the difference between real interest rate and nominal interest rate.
      Why, because it was such a difficult concept for you to wrap your head around?

      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      I suggest that you visit www.shadowstats.com
      Ahh, shadowstats. That certainly explains a lot.

    17. 02-17-2011 02:24 PM #142
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      yap yap yap yap....I know nothing yap yap yap

      aren't you so honest!?


      Anywho~ Silver broke out like gang buster today silencing all the bears and naysayers. I hate to say this to all of you again. If you do not own physical silver or gold, in the near future you will be very sorry. In fact, good luck locating physical bullion now. Thanks to HSBC and JPMorgan Chase, silver has been selling at bargain basement price and stress on physical market is astonishing. Local coinshow was wiped out when a gentlemen walked in with 50k in cash and walked out with all bullion coins and bars. That is how tight the physical market is. Don't let EFT market cap fool you. GET PHYSICAL NOW!

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      02-17-2011 03:53 PM #143
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      aren't you so honest!?


      Anywho~ Silver broke out like gang buster today silencing all the bears and naysayers. I hate to say this to all of you again. If you do not own physical silver or gold, in the near future you will be very sorry. In fact, good luck locating physical bullion now. Thanks to HSBC and JPMorgan Chase, silver has been selling at bargain basement price and stress on physical market is astonishing. Local coinshow was wiped out when a gentlemen walked in with 50k in cash and walked out with all bullion coins and bars. That is how tight the physical market is. Don't let EFT market cap fool you. GET PHYSICAL NOW!
      wow
      Quote Originally Posted by rookdubdoc View Post
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    19. 02-17-2011 11:04 PM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      GET PHYSICAL NOW!
      Let's get physical, physical,
      I wanna get physical, let's get into physical
      Let me hear your body talk,
      Your body talk, let me hear your body talk

      What's the cost to mine silver these days? $3.50 oz? That's some nice margin!
      Last edited by a_riot; 02-17-2011 at 11:07 PM.

    20. 02-18-2011 10:38 PM #145
      How about gold mining companies that are based outside the USA? We've been through a correction in precious metals in the last few weeks, but I think we are through it.

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      02-20-2011 04:23 PM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
      How about gold mining companies that are based outside the USA? We've been through a correction in precious metals in the last few weeks, but I think we are through it.
      Shares in pm mining companies in general is another way of spreading risk. Problem is (versus holding the pm in your hand) that you're once again at the mercy of others. If anything goes wrong (and that can happen to ANY company regardless of size) then you're stuffed, whereas having the physical product in your hand means you have greater control. You're still subject to the vagaries of the market BUT if you're simply "holding" pms as long term protection rather than as an "investment" then the "market" only concerns you when you buy. I think the thing is to NOT hold pms as an investment, particularly a short term investment, but rather as a long term hedge against the potential of the dollar (or any other currency really) depreciating markedly, which a number of commentators suggest is a distinct possibility.

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    22. 02-20-2011 05:05 PM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      Shares in pm mining companies in general is another way of spreading risk. Problem is (versus holding the pm in your hand) that you're once again at the mercy of others. If anything goes wrong (and that can happen to ANY company regardless of size) then you're stuffed, whereas having the physical product in your hand means you have greater control. You're still subject to the vagaries of the market BUT if you're simply "holding" pms as long term protection rather than as an "investment" then the "market" only concerns you when you buy. I think the thing is to NOT hold pms as an investment, particularly a short term investment, but rather as a long term hedge against the potential of the dollar (or any other currency really) depreciating markedly, which a number of commentators suggest is a distinct possibility.

      Cheers
      Problem is that it doesn't earn anything. It doesn't pay dividends, and I can't write call options against it. I can (and do) earn dividends from, and write call options against, mining stocks! Physical gold is essentially "dead money" other than the change in price of the commodity, with a cost associated with buying and selling it, and storing it.

      I realize that the history of mining stocks has been one of slower growth than the commodity itself, but with dividends and a bit of active management thrown in, it enhances the long-term return quite a bit and the storage and in/out costs detract from the growth of the commodity itself, from the individual investor's point of view.

      There are pluses and minuses to every investment strategy and it's best to use more than one.

      I am one of the skeptics about the long term health of the US$ ... which is why I don't own any US stocks and no government bonds!

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      02-20-2011 05:32 PM #148
      I get your drift GoFaster and basically agree with you. That's the point I was trying to make, physical pms are NOT an investment vehicle and that's where (IMO) many go wrong. They just want to buy and sell it as they did with houses etc etc etc.

      IMO "physical" pms are a "hold" item that's real purpose is as a last line of defense against currency failure (I don't necessarily mean the TOTAL failure of currency because in that case only food and bullets will have much value for a long time to come, though pms will (IMO) come through as an excellent store of wealth long term anyway) but more a hyperinflation situation that will (IMO) lead to a massive increase in pms value (against currency).

      So, if you're looking for short term investments and immediate returns on your money, then physical pms (or any other commodity for that matter) are of no value to you. As long as you're aware (as I'm sure you are) that stocks and shares are far from being a "safe" investment in the current economic climate !!

      Cheers
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    24. 02-23-2011 02:29 AM #149
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      IMO "physical" pms are a "hold" item that's real purpose is as a last line of defense against currency failure (I don't necessarily mean the TOTAL failure of currency because in that case only food and bullets will have much value for a long time to come, though pms will (IMO) come through as an excellent store of wealth long term anyway) but more a hyperinflation situation that will (IMO) lead to a massive increase in pms value (against currency).
      Putting a bunch of money into a dead asset is financially nonsensical. You might as well buy something useful like vintage guitars, or stamps so you can at least get some enjoyment out of your money. I think the only reason PMs are so expensive right now is becaue the Fed is buying them surreptiously with created money, for the purpose of dumping them, crashing the market and putting a quick end to anyone thinking they can create an alternate money system to compete with the Fed. Until you can pay your taxes in gold, its just another overpriced lump of metal with few useful purposes and no intrinsic value.

    25. 02-23-2011 09:30 AM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Putting a bunch of money into a dead asset is financially nonsensical. You might as well buy something useful like vintage guitars, or stamps so you can at least get some enjoyment out of your money. I think the only reason PMs are so expensive right now is becaue the Fed is buying them surreptiously with created money, for the purpose of dumping them, crashing the market and putting a quick end to anyone thinking they can create an alternate money system to compete with the Fed. Until you can pay your taxes in gold, its just another overpriced lump of metal with few useful purposes and no intrinsic value.
      Hush you FRAUD!

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