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    Thread: Buy and selling physical gold and silver

    1. 03-20-2012 02:50 PM #726
      how about removing the regulations that the USD is the ONLY currency or in other words the world's reverve currency
      so if someone wants to buy something they can use USD or gold, or silver, or another countries currency, or chickens or whatever
      the corruption is the fact that no one has any freedom about it.........it's use the USD or we devistate you

      the poor guy that was making silver coins for use got thrown in jail for a long time for attempting that

    2. 03-20-2012 04:02 PM #727
      Quote Originally Posted by mauslick View Post
      how about removing the regulations that the USD is the ONLY currency or in other words the world's reverve currency
      Please link to that regulation. I am interested in reading it.

      Quote Originally Posted by mauslick View Post
      so if someone wants to buy something they can use USD or gold, or silver, or another countries currency, or chickens or whatever
      the corruption is the fact that no one has any freedom about it.........it's use the USD or we devistate you

      the poor guy that was making silver coins for use got thrown in jail for a long time for attempting that
      As far as I know, bartering is legal, and currency exchange is too. Do you really think an unlimited amount of different currencies would LIMIT fraud?

    3. 03-20-2012 04:21 PM #728
      it makes as much sense as 'the current sytem is just fine, just need to get rid of the fraud"

      also your the guy that was disparaging people for watching utube videos, getting their information off the internet, wearing tin foil hats and warnings of the sky falling

      then you tell me I don't know how to use a search engine to get information off the internet?

      use of gold and silver as legal tender in not legal and the words 'far as I know' go a long way.

    4. Member sdpauly's Avatar
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      03-20-2012 06:15 PM #729
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Please link to that regulation. I am interested in reading it.
      Here is the relevant section of the US Code

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5103

      According to the Wiki on Legal Tender:

      There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender

      However, here is Ron Paul's perspective on how legal tender laws undermine other currencies according to an economic law known as Gresham's Law.

      "One of the main stumbling blocks is Federal legal tender laws, which state that government-controlled fiat currency MUST be accepted for many kinds of monetary transactions.
      In light of this, Gresham’s Law takes effect. Gresham’s Law states that bad money drives out good money. Meaning, if someone is forced to accept your bad money, it is to your advantage to pass it off, like a hot potato, in exchange for something of value. Any good money you have, you will hoard. Eventually, real money is driven out of circulation and under people’s mattresses, so to speak. In the absence of legal tender laws, people are free to accept the medium of exchange of their choice, and are likely to insist on payment in something of real value."

      http://www.ronpaul.com/2008-09-28/ro...l-tender-laws/

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

      /discuss
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

    5. 03-20-2012 11:20 PM #730
      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Here is the relevant section of the US Code
      So your point is that we shouldn't have legal tender, and anyone can demand whatever form of payment they want? That would just be chaos. Surely even you see that. The whole point of money is that its fungible. By its very nature, fungibility implies easy to replace, which means that it is prone to being counterfeited, criminally or by banks/gov't. So if I understand your meaning, you want money to not be fungible, and this is your solution to counterfeiting?

      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      However, here is Ron Paul's perspective on how legal tender laws undermine other currencies according to an economic law known as Gresham's Law.
      There's no real insight there. What you are essentially saying is that people value valuable things. Value is based on perception which is rather easy to manipulate, as you can see from the price of silver right now. Fiat currency is an agreement between all smart citizens that instead of the value of the currency constantly changing its value due to supply, demand, emotion, fashion, or other extraneous reasons, making markets almost impossible, we agree that it will have the same value across the country at all times so that markets can rely on the value of the currency they are using. This logic seems to bother you, and I don't understand why. If the fiat currency is being corrupted, then the corruption is the problem not the currency. If we go to a gold standard, and banks start making bars of gold from gold plated tungsten, then using your logic, gold is a terrible currency and must be abolished.

    6. 03-22-2012 01:23 AM #731
      "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" hence the logic against gun control. But of course, a guy can kill a whole of people with an automatic rifle vs. a pocket knife.

      Since people kill people, getting rid of guns won't help ... the problem is the people not the gun.

    7. 03-23-2012 01:48 AM #732
      Quote Originally Posted by livingVoice View Post
      "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" hence the logic against gun control.
      Actually uncontrolled bleeding from a bullet wound is what usually kills people. Or perhaps the large hole in the brain or heart. Regardless of how it got there, its still fatal.

    8. Member sdpauly's Avatar
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      03-23-2012 02:13 PM #733
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      So your point is that we shouldn't have legal tender, and anyone can demand whatever form of payment they want? That would just be chaos. Surely even you see that. The whole point of money is that its fungible. By its very nature, fungibility implies easy to replace, which means that it is prone to being counterfeited, criminally or by banks/gov't. So if I understand your meaning, you want money to not be fungible, and this is your solution to counterfeiting?
      I don't know that it would be as chaotic as you describe. And I wouldn't use the term "demand payment", instead I would choose the term "accept payment" in other words the consumer would have more options to pay, I don't think this would result in businesses demanding payment in anything in particular. I think it would be a merchant's best interest to be able to accept payment in a variety of different ways, that just means more potential sales. And actually, according to the information I linked, it is perfectly acceptable now.

      In a rural area, perhaps bartering for bushels of wheat or barrels of apples might make good economic sense. Again, there is nothing stopping individuals from doing this now, for example if a business chooses to deal in Au/Ag as method of payment. But there are other nuances here that stop alternative currencies from coming into widespread use. For example, taxes.

      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      There's no real insight there.
      Maybe, maybe not. I think what the article explained later on is that the court system invariably chooses to settle disputes in dollars. And that this is the mechanism by which, according to Gresham's Law, the bad money pushes out the good.

      Now, I don't know for sure if this really happens or not, I haven't studied enough cases to know, this is just what the article claims. But it sounds likely. Now, perhaps the courts choose this avenue (always settling disputes in Federal Reserve notes) because it's more efficient, but it does actually serve the purpose of elevating FRN's to a special status and undermining other forms of payment by refusing to enforce the original terms of the contract.

      Allowing other substances to be used as money would also require some changes in our capital gains tax laws as well. Because if merchants were required to pay taxes (or claim as losses) the value of the gold they are using in transactions (as measured in FRNs) then that could be another disincentive to using Au/Ag in transactions. So for competing currencies to work, we would need some pretty radical changes to our existing tax structure.

      Personally, I think all capital gains taxes should be eliminated, but I guess that's a topic for a different discussion...
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

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      03-23-2012 02:50 PM #734
      Out of curiosity, did anyone watch the videos I linked at the top? I think it's worth checking out...

      Here is more information about the LETS system proposed in the videos. Apparently, this kind of system has actually been used with some degree of success in other places around the world. I have my own opinions about the feasibility/practicality of a system like this, but I was wondering what others think.

      Here are some additional links about LETS.

      http://www.gmlets.u-net.com/

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_e...trading_system
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

    10. 03-24-2012 12:56 AM #735
      if (a_riot)
      {
      while (1)
      { nothing }
      }

    11. 03-24-2012 03:04 AM #736
      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Out of curiosity, did anyone watch the videos I linked at the top? I think it's worth checking out...

      Here is more information about the LETS system proposed in the videos. Apparently, this kind of system has actually been used with some degree of success in other places around the world. I have my own opinions about the feasibility/practicality of a system like this, but I was wondering what others think.

      Here are some additional links about LETS.

      http://www.gmlets.u-net.com/

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_e...trading_system
      I watched the videos and there're very interesting but I was already aware about the debt equals money portion, and the rest of the videos are also very cool thank you

    12. Member sdpauly's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 12:36 PM #737
      Great read today on Mises.org

      http://mises.org/daily/6028/New-York...e-the-Building

      TLDR; an Austrian economist gets invited to give a speech at the New York Federal Reserve. This is mainly directed at those on this thread that have claimed the Austrian School of economists are some kind of "fringe" group that lacks any credibility. Say what you will about the overall credibility of the Fed or the economics profession in general, but this is a refreshing development.

      Besides, this thread needed a bump, it had fallen to page 2.
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

    13. 04-30-2012 03:07 PM #738
      update: all central banks still holding tons of gold, some , like the russians are buying gold

      why? ben bernanke: "it's a tradition"
      ron paul "a lot of people think gold is money"

      some even quote the golden rule "he who has the gold makes the rules"

      that has been transformed to "he who has the nukes, makes the rules"

      which has given us " how is you credit score".........

    14. 05-01-2012 12:08 PM #739
      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Doesn't seem to have made silver go over $100/oz though. When is that going to happen? i want to mark that on my calendar.

    15. 05-07-2012 12:36 PM #740
      Whatever happened to Mezran? Is he too busy backing his truck up buying more silver to post anymore? Or is he too embarrassed that all his prognostications were completely wrong? Perhaps he's too busy working a $8/hr job to pay off his silver debts.

      Silver is now under $30 so I wonder if that previous support will turn into resistance. Glad I didn't take his advice and convert my life savings into silver when it was in the $40's like he insisted everyone do or die bankrupt.

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      05-07-2012 08:51 PM #741

    17. Member sdpauly's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 11:25 AM #742
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      Doesn't seem to have made silver go over $100/oz though.
      Was it supposed to?

      The current pullback in Au/Ag should be seen as a buying opportunity. Remember both hit lows last Summer too (July to be exact) and came back with a vengeance in the Fall. The fundamentals have not changed, and with France's latest election putting another nail in the coffin of the EU, it's only a matter of time before Global Economic Crisis "part 78910" occur again...

      Combine that with the prospect of another middle east war, and radioactive clouds from Fukushima blowing across the West Coast, etc... Yup my Au/Ag investments are staying right where they are. I may even add some more to my position this week, depending on how low we go.

      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

    18. 05-08-2012 11:33 AM #743
      Quote Originally Posted by nezraM View Post
      STFU a_fraud!

      September 4th, 2011.

      Silver $43.06
      US 74.708

      Silver Chart


      Dollar Chart
      Has to be the absolute worst call in the history of M&I. Look at the charts from September forward. Both trades went in the losing direction in concert. Ouch!
      Last edited by a_riot; 05-14-2012 at 09:45 PM.

    19. 05-09-2012 03:35 PM #744
      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Was it supposed to?
      According to you and Mezran yes.

    20. 05-10-2012 01:27 AM #745
      how about those who bought gold at 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500,?????

      how about those who bought silver at, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 , 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27,???

      how about those cremding on themselves for buying apple at 500.00?

      how about the guy who's pay hasn't gone up but a big mac meal is 7.00?

      how about considering the game isn't over before making some sort of smug judgement

      how about those who don't give a sh*t whats posted on some internet forum?

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      05-10-2012 11:22 AM #746
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      According to you and Mezran yes.
      Please go find where I said silver would be $100 this year. I'll wait...

      I might have said silver will hit $60, back last year when it almost did, but I never said it would be $100 any time soon. I do think it's possible within the next 10 years or so, if present trends remain unchanged.
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

    22. 05-10-2012 11:56 AM #747
      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Please go find where I said silver would be $100 this year. I'll wait...

      I might have said silver will hit $60, back last year when it almost did, but I never said it would be $100 any time soon. I do think it's possible within the next 10 years or so, if present trends remain unchanged.
      You've been relentlessly pushing silver as an investment for months, even when it was $50. If you are pushing silver at $50 obviously you think it will go a lot higher. I can only hope that no one here listened to you and Nezram and lost a lot of their money. I know one poster here took you at your word and bought silver at around $45, so they've lost almost half their money. Way to go!

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      05-10-2012 01:37 PM #748
      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      You've been relentlessly pushing silver as an investment for months...
      Relentlessly pushing? LOL, that's ridiculous. Please find where I did so and quote me. I always caution people to do their own research, anything I ever stated was an opinion and I have always qualified it as such. I have always stressed a long term time horizon for PM investing.

      Quote Originally Posted by a_riot View Post
      I know one poster here took you at your word and bought silver at around $45, so they've lost almost half their money.
      That's a bummer. Good thing I never told anyone to buy anything. And if your time horizon is 10 years or so, I think it will be back over $45 some time in the next few years, maybe sooner. So, they haven't really lost anything if they don't need to sell it right away. I have also always advocated cost-averaging, not buying all of it all at once. Instead spread your purchases over the course of a year or several years, if you did that you could take advantage of the recent pullback and add to your position and lower your average cost basis.

      I haven't gotten any angry PMs from anyone on the 'Tex chastising me for telling them to buy silver, so I think you're just making all that up to sound superior.
      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

    24. 05-10-2012 05:20 PM #749
      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Relentlessly pushing? LOL, that's ridiculous.
      You've got to be kidding. The evidence is all through this thread. You were promoting PMs and telling members to "buy at the dips" back when silver was falling through the high 30's.

      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Please find where I did so and quote me. I always caution people to do their own research, anything I ever stated was an opinion and I have always qualified it as such. I have always stressed a long term time horizon for PM investing.
      Yeah, in your dreams maybe...

      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      That's a bummer. Good thing I never told anyone to buy anything.
      Yeah, a real bummer you lie through your teeth constantly.

      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      Silver is also exploding right now! Again, wait for a pullback before loading up substantially, but silver is much more approachable (price wise) than gold and has a much better prospect for big percentage gains in the coming years. I am expecting silver to be several hundred dollars an ounce in the next 10 years.
      Quote Originally Posted by sdpauly View Post
      I would suggest putting some money into gold and silver. Buy and hold physical, not just ETFs or futures contracts. See my comments posted in the other thread about gold and silver for reasons why.


      You must hate it that I was correct about PMs, USD and CHF after calling me a_idiot countless times. I won't rub it in though, since you have enough to worry about after losing all that money you invested in gold and silver, shorting the USD, etc.


      Silver Chart


      Dollar Chart
      Last edited by a_riot; 05-14-2012 at 09:46 PM.

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      05-10-2012 07:13 PM #750
      Saying "several hundred in 10 years" is quite a different thing from saying "100 this year" but thanks for trying. Also thanks for saving me the time and proving my case for me. I never said silver was going to be 100 this year and you proved it for me, thanks!!

      I see nothing wrong with what I said, and it's certainly not even close to what you characterize it as... There were certainly words of caution along with the 'hype'. I have and continue to advise buying the dips. Now is a dip (IMHO $28 is a steal right now). Could I be wrong? Sure. Make your own choice.

      "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -H. L. Mencken

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