Buy and selling physical gold and silver

[1.8Tquattro]

Your Youtube video's progressively look more and more official. Next one will be onset of some dude on A&E's Hoarders.

Gold hoarders.

[SAPJetta]

Gold hoarders.

Got a problem with it?

I find it makes fantastic couches, beds, counters, etc etc.

[Yzerman]

Personally I am investing bottled water and canned food which I can trade for sexual favors in the post apocalyptic world

[nezraM]

Personally I am investing bottled water and canned food which I can trade for sexual favors in the post apocalyptic world

with a plan like that, you will be sure to get slaughtered like a pig.

[torxim]

We already know that with silver, ETFs are sold upwards of 100 shares per 1 physical ounce. This is common practice because it is never expected that delivery would be demanded by many at the same time.

what silver contract are you referring to that is upwards of 100 lots per oz? Silver contract on COMEX is 5,000 t oz. per contract...

ETFs are worthless, holding physical metal, real money, is the whole point to investing in PMs.

ETFs are only worthless if you are investing for an apocalypse, which isn't really investing... if you simply want to have gold as a hedge against the dollar, ETFs are the way to go. also you are saying that ETF's aren't "real money" ? can you explain?

[nezraM]

what silver contract are you referring to that is upwards of 100 lots per oz? Silver contract on COMEX is 5,000 t oz. per contract...

COMEX is paper market as you know. Simply put, every 1 oz of physical metal, 100 paper contract exists. So do the math. Physical delivery happens in LBMA. This is effectively, fractional metal leasing which is illegal. Every paper contract comes with physical delivery guarantee. So you tell me, how do you deliver physicals on 100 contracts when only 1 oz of silver is available for 100 expecting investors per se?

[Yzerman]

with a plan like that, you will be sure to get slaughtered like a pig.

LOL joke much?

good lord

[torxim]

COMEX is paper market as you know. Simply put, every 1 oz of physical metal, 100 paper contract exists. So do the math. Physical delivery happens in LBMA. This is effectively, fractional metal leasing which is illegal. Every paper contract comes with physical delivery guarantee. So you tell me, how do you deliver physicals on 100 contracts when only 1 oz of silver is available for 100 expecting investors per se?

ahh, ok so claim of the ''100 contracts per oz'' is simply saying the volume of silver futures traded is higher than what is actually out there. If you look at actual open interest though, as of today dec silver only has 331 lots of OI, which will likely go down before expiration on the 29th.

This is not unique to silver though, I can't think of any commodity that does not have more futures trading than the underlying physical out there. Right now feb WTI has over 300k lots of open interest. Cushing sure doesn't have 300 million BBL worth of crude, and the OI will definitely go down before contract expiration.

[a_riot]

COMEX is paper market as you know. Simply put, every 1 oz of physical metal, 100 paper contract exists. So do the math. Physical delivery happens in LBMA. This is effectively, fractional metal leasing which is illegal. Every paper contract comes with physical delivery guarantee. So you tell me, how do you deliver physicals on 100 contracts when only 1 oz of silver is available for 100 expecting investors per se?

If this is true, then its similar to what happened in housing where the same mortgage was sold numerous times. My memory is dim, but from what I recall, this discovery didn't send the price of housing skyrocketing.

[ab8349]

Well, my daughter got one of these for Christmas:



So I got her this to match:

[GeoffD]

If this is true, then its similar to what happened in housing where the same mortgage was sold numerous times. My memory is dim, but from what I recall, this discovery didn't send the price of housing skyrocketing.

Speaking of dim....

What nonsense. Mortgages are bundled up by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and sold as mortgage-backed securities. It's no different from buying a bond. It's not like the precious metals futures market at all.

The problem happened when the federal government started screwing with the fidelity of the mortgages while concurrently implicitly guaranteeing the securities. You ended up with portfolios that were stuffed full of mortgages where the buyers weren't qualified to pay back the loan or where the real estate backing the loan was improperly appraised. This prolonged the natural real estate cycle that should have corrected in 2003.

[1.8Tquattro]

So I got her this to match:

That thing has creepy eyes. Looks like zombie panda.

[a_riot]

Speaking of dim....

What nonsense. Mortgages are bundled up by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and sold as mortgage-backed securities. It's no different from buying a bond. It's not like the precious metals futures market at all.

The problem happened when the federal government started screwing with the fidelity of the mortgages while concurrently implicitly guaranteeing the securities. You ended up with portfolios that were stuffed full of mortgages where the buyers weren't qualified to pay back the loan or where the real estate backing the loan was improperly appraised. This prolonged the natural real estate cycle that should have corrected in 2003.

You didn't even understand my post so why quote me? Your strawman arguments just make you look silly. Its called fraud, and its been happening in the mortgage and precious metals markets for years. Sorry that the industry that you work in is rampant with fraud and as such will be in a depressed state for many years, but if you were smart you would have seen it coming and got out while the getting was good.

[GeoffD]

You didn't even understand my post so why quote me? Your strawman arguments just make you look silly. Its called fraud, and its been happening in the mortgage and precious metals markets for years. Sorry that the industry that you work in is rampant with fraud and as such will be in a depressed state for many years, but if you were smart you would have seen it coming and got out while the getting was good.

I understand exactly what you wrote. You compared mortgage backed securities to the whole precious metals paper shuffling that's going on. You were dead wrong. Instead of learning something from it, you create more fiction.

I'm wondering. What industry do you think I work in that you are saying is rampant with fraud?

[Gtiupb2002]

So I dont know much about investing and all that, but I have always been told it is a good idea to have some resever of physical gold and silver after all it has been used as a symbol of money for thousands of years. Im not sure why so many people have so much faith in our dollar it looses value every day it seems.

I have been looking at buying PM and decided to go with silver, reason is its the price that gold was in 1971 and within 9 years gold skyrocketed to over $800/oz. However I will buy some gold to just not in the quanity that I can buy silver due to the prices now. Now I dont expect silver to do that but you just never no and considering that silver is now more rare then gold, so why is gold so much more expensive then silver?

Sure I can invest this money into stocks, cd's, mutual funds and whatever else but what is there to guarantee that my money will be there in the next 10 years. I will however still invest in these but I dont plan on putting all my eggs in one basket.

[Fortunate4now]

with a plan like that, you will be sure to get slaughtered like a pig.

He's right! If you buy gold and silver but no guns then the people with guns will take your gold and silver.

So the formula goes Guns-ammo-gold-food.

[a_riot]

He's right! If you buy gold and silver but no guns then the people with guns will take your gold and silver.

So the formula goes Guns-ammo-gold-food.

If it came to that, who on earth would want gold? Food, water, shelter, energy, medicine, and clothing will be valuable not useless precious metals.

[Gtiupb2002]

People would still barter and I'm sure golf and silver would hold value in that.

Next gun will be an ar

[NZTIGUAN]

If it came to that, who on earth would want gold? Food, water, shelter, energy, medicine, and clothing will be valuable not useless precious metals.

This is obviously correct BUT what it fails to take into account is the fact that you (eventually) need a "portable" store of wealth that allows trade (barter if you prefer the term) over a greater area. Pms and the like give that ability to move value around more easily.

The other issue is that "during" the time that the dollar (or the Yen or the whatever) is steadily decreasing in value pms increase in value and are readily tradable for dollars when required (to purchase food, clothing etc etc).

Nobody is suggesting (well I'm not anyway) that pms or other high value reserves of value are the answer in themselves, but that they will hold their value and so allow you to purchase (or trade or barter if you prefer those terms) if required.

[a_riot]

This is obviously correct BUT what it fails to take into account is the fact that you (eventually) need a "portable" store of wealth that allows trade (barter if you prefer the term) over a greater area. Pms and the like give that ability to move value around more easily.

Then we will likely just go back to paper money, as we have for centuries, if we need a portable store of wealth. Besides, no one would know what gold is worth without a paper currency to price it with. How much gold is a cow worth?

[ab8349]

Then we will likely just go back to paper money, as we have for centuries, if we need a portable store of wealth. Besides, no one would know what gold is worth without a paper currency to price it with. How much gold is a cow worth?

That's for the people with the gold and cows to decide.

[nezraM]

US Mint reports 50% surge in silver bullion demand.

Dec 2010 sales: 1.77 million oz
Jan 2011: 3.4 million oz

2010 Average Monthly Demand: 2.88million oz.

[NZTIGUAN]

Then we will likely just go back to paper money, as we have for centuries, if we need a portable store of wealth. Besides, no one would know what gold is worth without a paper currency to price it with. How much gold is a cow worth?

We've had it (paper money) for about 400 years, we've had gold and silver coins for over 3000 years !! The printing of paper money only began when the gold and silver got too heavy to carry around !!

[a_riot]

We've had it (paper money) for about 400 years, we've had gold and silver coins for over 3000 years !! The printing of paper money only began when the gold and silver got too heavy to carry around !!

We've had paper money for 400 years, we've had gold and silver for 3000 years, and we've had token money forever. What that token happens to be made of is rather arbitrary. You are confusing the token with the abstraction. The token just represents the abstraction similar to the way a map represents land. But the map isn't the land, and only a fool would buy a map thinking they are buying property.

[a_riot]

US Mint reports 50% surge in silver bullion demand.

Dec 2010 sales: 1.77 million oz
Jan 2011: 3.4 million oz

2010 Average Monthly Demand: 2.88million oz.

Does that account for the one-day 5% drop in price?

[NZTIGUAN]

We've had paper money for 400 years, we've had gold and silver for 3000 years, and we've had token money forever. What that token happens to be made of is rather arbitrary. You are confusing the token with the abstraction. The token just represents the abstraction similar to the way a map represents land. But the map isn't the land, and only a fool would buy a map thinking they are buying property.

So many posts, so little intelligence.

[a_riot]

So many posts, so little intelligence.

I disagree, you aren't unintelligent, just misinformed.

[Gtiupb2002]

I disagree, you aren't unintelligent, just misinformed.

I don't know what point your trying to make, but weather you like it or not gold and silver will always hold value in peoples minds. Our dollar sucks and I have a feeling it will literally be worth nothing one day. So keep investing it to make more of it just to watch it all go to being worthless. Paper money can be made all day, gold and silver cannot therefore it will always be accepted as a payment method because of it's rarity. Your not going to convince us otherwise.

[a_riot]

I don't know what point your trying to make, but weather you like it or not gold and silver will always hold value in peoples minds. Our dollar sucks and I have a feeling it will literally be worth nothing one day. So keep investing it to make more of it just to watch it all go to being worthless. Paper money can be made all day, gold and silver cannot therefore it will always be accepted as a payment method because of it's rarity. Your not going to convince us otherwise.

Not sure what your point is, and not sure what it has to do with the weather. Gold and silver will always hold value sure no argument there. Is an ounce of gold worth 10 times what it costs to get it out of the ground? I don't think so. But feel free to continue buying it at that price and contributing to the bubble.

Paper gold and silver are indeed made every day, and the gold and silver scams have been around the longest. Whether paper money can be made all day has nothing to do with. A corrupt currency can be designed around any token money. The material used is irrelevant. If you think buying precious metals prevents you from being scammed, you are just naive.

[nezraM]

I don't know what point your trying to make, but weather you like it or not gold and silver will always hold value in peoples minds. Our dollar sucks and I have a feeling it will literally be worth nothing one day. So keep investing it to make more of it just to watch it all go to being worthless. Paper money can be made all day, gold and silver cannot therefore it will always be accepted as a payment method because of it's rarity. Your not going to convince us otherwise.

NO WAY!!!! Dollar is Mighty! It is the WORLD'S RESERVE CURRENCY!!! US Economy is fundamentally sound and we have no problem of paying off $50+ trillion in debt and take on yet another $1 trillion by March! We will be able to pay off the debt by simply being good at what we do! CONSUME! We have successfully shipped off all our basic and even advanced manufacturing jobs oversea and the citizens can take on endless amount of debt because we are AMERICANS! We will pay these debt off with more debt! Let those patriotic politicians worry about the future of our nation & people because they have been doing fantastic job! Still not convinced?

[a_riot]

NO WAY!!!! Dollar is Mighty! It is the WORLD'S RESERVE CURRENCY!!! US Economy is fundamentally sound and we have no problem of paying off $50+ trillion in debt and take on yet another $1 trillion by March! We will be able to pay off the debt by simply being good at what we do! CONSUME! We have successfully shipped off all our basic and even advanced manufacturing jobs oversea and the citizens can take on endless amount of debt because we are AMERICANS! We will pay these debt off with more debt! Let those patriotic politicians worry about the future of our nation & people because they have been doing fantastic job! Still not convinced?

Strawman.

[nezraM]

Wall Street Journal reports, Billionaire Thomas Kaplan have put up $2bill of his own money towards PM.

[a_riot]

Wall Street Journal reports, Billionaire Thomas Kaplan have put up $2bill of his own money towards PM.

Interesting. This is old news, why is it being reported on yet again by the WSJ? Sounds like someone is talking their book because they are very worried about its value.

[nezraM]

CFTC announces. Position Limit no longer applies to JPMC. It is clear, not only Chase controls SLV but CFTC as well. JPMC is the FED. Get your physical silver while you can.

[a_riot]

CFTC announces. Position Limit no longer applies to JPMC. It is clear, not only Chase controls SLV but CFTC as well. JPMC is the FED. Get your physical silver while you can.

What were you expecting? JPMC announcing that they manipulate the metals market and to stop doing it from now on? When you are the house, it doesn't matter what the gamblers do, you always win. I have been telling people to get out of metals for months because of this, but you keep telling them to dive in with no lifejacket.