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    Thread: Cam follower "recall"

    1. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      02-18-2011 01:32 PM #106
      That's great news, dummy, thanks for the update. Please keep us all posted and if you can get your hands on that updated TSB, we'd all appreciate it so those who run into this problem can use it with VoA/AoA, should the need arise.

      Quote Originally Posted by dummy View Post
      So I've been getting the boost and fuel cut like everyone else has been talking about for the past couple weeks. I scheduled my 80k service and took my 2006 GTI in this am and told them to pull the fuel pump and check the follower. My tech (who is a friend of mine) had done this 10k miles ago and said it looked fine.

      After checking for codes, they found the 2293 and a few others and once the tech pulled the HPFP i got a phone call. the dreaded phone call. Follower had no surface left. Cam, HPFP, and follower needed to be replaced.

      I very politely (but firmly) told my service advisor that under no circumstances would I be shelling out the money to fix an engineering issue that VW/Audi have known about since 2007 and referenced the TSB(s) that have been released. Supposedly there is an even newer TSB than the 150702 that everyone online are referencing. (I will be trying to get my hands on a copy of it to scan and upload for all of you from my tech). I let my service advisor know that I would be more than happy to call VWoA and talk to them about reimbursement when he started talking about my engine being out of warranty, etc. He quickly told me he'd call me back and that he was going to talk to the service manager and the VW rep.

      15 minutes later I got a call letting me know VW was covering 100% of the cost of parts and labor.

      I guess the way that works is be nice about it but give solid reasoning why you're not going to pay and they are. It worked for me. I hope it works for the rest of you who are having issues.

      I told them to keep my parts. I will post pics of them when I get the car back monday.

    2. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      02-18-2011 01:34 PM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by saaber2 View Post
      Dummy, Nice Job! Just goes to show that us VW owners have to educate ourselves and not rely on VW to spoon feed us information (because they won't). The same lack of information from VW that applies to the cam follower issue also goes for the extremely poor performance of "approved" motor oils, the valve deposits issues, and the DSG issue. The only reason the DSG issue became a warranty extension were the NHTSA complaints and Dennis' ABC news spot. We have to educate ourselves on these cars weak spots, not just leave it up to VW. "They designed the car so they should know what's best" as we so often hear, is just not accurate. We have to educate ourselves.
      Not to defend Volkswagen, but I think this is an unfortunate reality for most manufacturers and products these days. The potential liability to Volkswagen for the 2.0T cam issue is extremely large and no doubt they would prefer to handle these quietly on a case-by-case basis to keep the storm to a minimum.

    3. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      02-18-2011 04:27 PM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by Travis Grundke View Post
      Not to defend Volkswagen, but I think this is an unfortunate reality for most manufacturers and products these days. The potential liability to Volkswagen for the 2.0T cam issue is extremely large and no doubt they would prefer to handle these quietly on a case-by-case basis to keep the storm to a minimum.
      isnt that kind of the same thing toyota did? bury your head in the sand and hope people just stop complaining???

      sooner or later, there is going to be a HUGE number of failed parts and cars and the media will get their hands on it and VW is going to be the new Toyota/ chevy.
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    4. 02-20-2011 05:17 AM #109
      Doubt it will be as bad as toyota was when the media attacks. Mostly cause its doesn't cause harm to/ kill you when you follower goes

    5. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      02-20-2011 12:19 PM #110
      yeah, but how few people had their accelerator get stuck open? how many shelled out thousands and thousands of dollars before 100,000 miles for our car? its going to be a big story, just for different reasons.


      btw, its a toyota... so they can go WOT and go from 0-60 by Thanksgiving.... with a good tailwind...
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    6. 02-20-2011 01:38 PM #111
      I agree but I think I should have said the public reaction will be less because if no one is getting hurt then people who are not affected will not care as much imo

    7. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      02-20-2011 01:53 PM #112
      im sure people merging on the highway and get fuel cuts and get hit would disagree. lol
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    8. 02-20-2011 03:22 PM #113
      Okay dude idc what you say its not really a dangerous issue. Yeah fuel cuts are scary but I'm sure hardly anyone has been hurt from them. Lol

    9. Member rickjaguar's Avatar
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      02-21-2011 02:05 AM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by Preppy View Post
      I have a 2007 GTI with 48,000kms (~30,000mi).

      I haven't experienced any engine trouble aside from the odd CEL from time to time that typically disappears if I fiddle with the fuel filler cap (my assumption is that the fuel filler cap isn't tightened properly).

      Since the first change, I've used the German Castrol 0W30 Synthetic (the one recommended here and on BITOG) every 8000kms or 6mos as recommended by the dash indicator. This is the full synthetic that meets VW's european long change interval requirements... not the crappy dino base oil that the dealers stock (Castrol Synth 5W40). I use oem oil filters, the dealer performs all oil changes for me using my supplied oil.

      I change the paper air filter once per year with OEM filters.

      Engine is not modified in any way. I do not have a catch can. I am not running aftermarket software.

      My car will be out of full b2b warranty in July 2011.

      Should I be concerned about this problem? How do I know if I'm already suffering from follower wear and or pump and cam damage? I have a good relationship with my dealership, and have someone looking into the issue for me... but no response yet. I'm a bit concerned, and would like to have any work done / replacements made prior to warranty end period.

      Thx.
      Preppy, I have an 07 too and i first checked my cam follower at 55000km. I started a thread in this forum but (the short of it is) that i found a very evenly worn follower. I replaced it anyway and it didn't look at all like it was gonna blow. So... you'll only feel better when you check for yourself. It gave me a much better insight to my car's life.
      Re: oil. Umm, hot topic but if you're doing a lot of city driving maybe a 4 month interval is a better idea than 8000km if it takes you longer to reach that. I do 8000km and that's 4 changes a year for me. I like LubroMoly, but after seeing a UOA for Shell 5w40 T6 Rotella i want to try that one next.

    10. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      02-21-2011 11:08 AM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by Travis Grundke View Post
      Not to defend Volkswagen, but I think this is an unfortunate reality for most manufacturers and products these days. The potential liability to Volkswagen for the 2.0T cam issue is extremely large and no doubt they would prefer to handle these quietly on a case-by-case basis to keep the storm to a minimum.
      No matter how you spin it the facts are:

      • The design has the potential that even if you follow the manufacturers recommended maintenance exactly you might have a failure that causes you thousands of dollars to fix.
      • They know that if it is inspected periodically that the incidence of failure goes down dramatically but don't tell anyone this.
      • They have known about this for years but have never told their customers and are just now starting to pay claims.
      • Many people have had the failures outside of warranty and paid for it, with little or no VW help.
      • Some dealers don't know about it and if you don't push for VW to pay you probably won't get help.

      They have hardly gone out of their way to fix the issue or help out customers. My opinion is even now they are taking a "wait as long as possible to do anything, this reduces exposure, then pay only when pressed, don't admit anything and don't offer anything" attitude. Maybe this will change but it could have years ago.
      Last edited by dmorrow; 02-21-2011 at 11:10 AM.

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      02-21-2011 11:42 AM #116
      Pulled my follower at the weekend, put a new one in simply to get to the dealership this morning:




      Can't find any pictures of HPFP lobes, but as far as I can tell mine is worn, which likely means the cam is worn as well. Waiting on the dealer to hopefully to the right thing and replace it all (still under CPO).

      Car has 89k, not chipped, driven gently (crap commute = driving trying to maximize MPG) and oil change every 5k with either Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum.

      Glad I read forums, or I would never have known about this. Wish I had known about it before buying the car, but at least it is fairly easy to check, would be nice to know how often to check though.

      Edit: Dealership being useless, citing lack of CEL as reason to do nothing unless I authorize $450+ of work.
      Last edited by naiku; 02-21-2011 at 04:18 PM.

    12. 02-21-2011 06:08 PM #117
      join the facebook group i think it is going strong, i think it is vw audi 2.0t fsi

    13. Member Travis Grundke's Avatar
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      02-21-2011 06:27 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by dmorrow View Post
      No matter how you spin it the facts are:

      • The design has the potential that even if you follow the manufacturers recommended maintenance exactly you might have a failure that causes you thousands of dollars to fix.
      • They know that if it is inspected periodically that the incidence of failure goes down dramatically but don't tell anyone this.
      • They have known about this for years but have never told their customers and are just now starting to pay claims.
      • Many people have had the failures outside of warranty and paid for it, with little or no VW help.
      • Some dealers don't know about it and if you don't push for VW to pay you probably won't get help.

      They have hardly gone out of their way to fix the issue or help out customers. My opinion is even now they are taking a "wait as long as possible to do anything, this reduces exposure, then pay only when pressed, don't admit anything and don't offer anything" attitude. Maybe this will change but it could have years ago.
      dmorrow -

      I'm not trying to "spin" anything, I'm simply stating the underlying reason why VoA likely has not gone out of its way to publicize this issue. No doubt it is a manufacturing defect, they state so in the original TSB.

      They pulled the same crap with the 1.8T sludging issue and with the coil packs on the MK IVs: they waited as long as they possibly could before admitting fault. While we'd all love Volkswagen to "do the right thing", they're sure not going to unelss we push them on it.

      Forum discussions like this, along with the Facebook group, along with well documented and sternly worded letters help. Unfortunate, but all true.

    14. Semi-n00b
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      02-22-2011 08:27 PM #119
      Does anyone know what exactly VWOA has made the warranty for the cam follower issue? Im currently in the middle of installing my GT3071r but am not going to finish if i have to take it to the Dealership for they wont warranty it if they see the turbo.

    15. 02-23-2011 02:24 AM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by Travis Grundke View Post
      dmorrow -

      I'm not trying to "spin" anything, I'm simply stating the underlying reason why VoA likely has not gone out of its way to publicize this issue. No doubt it is a manufacturing defect, they state so in the original TSB.
      The only thing they admitted to being a "manufacturing defect" is the hardening of some of the A camshafts, not the followers or design.

    16. Semi-n00b
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      02-24-2011 06:10 PM #121
      Maybe we need to get GMA on the case, http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8378724&page=1

    17. Member Krieger's Avatar
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      02-24-2011 07:38 PM #122
      that'd be the day.
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

    18. 02-24-2011 09:21 PM #123
      Lol I would hate to hear gma try and explain a high pressure fuel pump wearing through the cam follower and destroying the intake camshaft in terms that would be easily understood by the general public.

    19. 02-24-2011 09:22 PM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by Krieger View Post
      that'd be the day.
      That I actually watch GMA

    20. 03-01-2011 02:03 AM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by Jimmys2.8 View Post
      Lol I would hate to hear gma try and explain a high pressure fuel pump wearing through the cam follower and destroying the intake camshaft in terms that would be easily understood by the general public.
      Actually, my 1st-hand experience was just the opposite; the camshaft wore its way all the way through the follower and then started to damage the actuator shaft on the HP-Fuel-Pump. I hope that Jimmys2.8 just mixed-up the facts inadvertently . . . if we [on the Vortex] cannot agree on what the issues are then obviously GMA is not going to want to waste their time.
      .
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    21. 03-01-2011 02:49 AM #126
      Yeah I messed up there lol sorry

    22. Member rdjr74's Avatar
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      03-01-2011 02:24 PM #127
      And why didn't they include my 2006 GLI in this recall???

    23. 03-10-2011 09:11 PM #128
      Okayguys I replaced the camshaft and fuel pump (with apr hpfp) and fuel pump housing and cam follower 12000 miles ago. Tonight I got p0089. Are you kidding me? Please someone tell me other things could cause that. Fuel filter needs changing? Sensor bad? I will look at the follower when it stops raining out but for now any ideas? I didn't wanna make a new thread for this

    24. Member Bill6211789's Avatar
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      03-10-2011 11:23 PM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by Jimmys2.8 View Post
      Okayguys I replaced the camshaft and fuel pump (with apr hpfp) and fuel pump housing and cam follower 12000 miles ago. Tonight I got p0089. Are you kidding me? Please someone tell me other things could cause that. Fuel filter needs changing? Sensor bad? I will look at the follower when it stops raining out but for now any ideas? I didn't wanna make a new thread for this
      I'm not sure if Thts the code I got wen my buddy follower failed but have u been checking the follower at all through the 12k miles? The Apr HPFP has been know to eat through followers faster then the OEM HPFP

      Sent from my EVO
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    25. 03-11-2011 05:53 AM #130
      No I haven't I was gonna check at my next oil change

    26. Member Bill6211789's Avatar
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      03-11-2011 08:10 AM #131
      Yea I'd check ASAP. I started changing my oil at 3k intervals to try n help my follower wear down.

      Hope for the best.

      Sent from my EVO
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    27. 03-11-2011 02:00 PM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by Bill6211789 View Post
      I'm not sure if Thts the code I got wen my buddy follower failed but have u been checking the follower at all through the 12k miles? The Apr HPFP has been know to eat through followers faster then the OEM HPFP

      Sent from my EVO
      To once more clarrify the core of this manufacturing defect and help us understand and share real [first-hand] information.
      Is it true that the HP-Fuel-Pump is actually eating through any of these Cam Follwers? Sorry if it seems like I am splitting hairs . . .
      My experience is not the same at all. I hope we can agree on the core of the problem; regardless of which HP-Fuel-Pump is in use. From most of what I've read on several Vortex threads and on the FB-Page, the insufficiently hardened Cam Lobe [as it wears down] sheds material and becomes an agressively abrasive member that grinds through the follower - and eventually the HP-Fuel-Pump actuator shaft. The uploaded pictures seem to consistently support this process. But the idea that the HP-Fuel Pump could be responsible for "eating through followers" seems like a new and yet to be documented theory. Not that it is impossible, just unlikely. But I am stating that [when we communicate anything to VWoA or Audi] that we cannot have it both ways.
      If some aftermarket or modified Fuel Pump is truley causing these same followers to wear out prematurely, then i suggest that is 1. a new development and 2. a seperate thread and 3. not a valid concern for VWoA to absorb and the people who read this thread probably will want to avoid because it confuses the original claim that the Cam-Shaft-Lobe is the root cause of our engine failures [or "abnormal" wear]
      .
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    28. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      03-11-2011 02:28 PM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by j-deacon View Post
      To once more clarrify the core of this manufacturing defect and help us understand and share real [first-hand] information.
      Is it true that the HP-Fuel-Pump is actually eating through any of these Cam Follwers? Sorry if it seems like I am splitting hairs . . .
      My experience is not the same at all. I hope we can agree on the core of the problem; regardless of which HP-Fuel-Pump is in use. From most of what I've read on several Vortex threads and on the FB-Page, the insufficiently hardened Cam Lobe [as it wears down] sheds material and becomes an agressively abrasive member that grinds through the follower - and eventually the HP-Fuel-Pump actuator shaft. The uploaded pictures seem to consistently support this process. But the idea that the HP-Fuel Pump could be responsible for "eating through followers" seems like a new and yet to be documented theory. Not that it is impossible, just unlikely. But I am stating that [when we communicate anything to VWoA or Audi] that we cannot have it both ways.
      If some aftermarket or modified Fuel Pump is truley causing these same followers to wear out prematurely, then i suggest that is 1. a new development and 2. a seperate thread and 3. not a valid concern for VWoA to absorb and the people who read this thread probably will want to avoid because it confuses the original claim that the Cam-Shaft-Lobe is the root cause of our engine failures [or "abnormal" wear]
      I am not sure how we know which one is the main cause. The cam is on one side and the HPFP is on the other with the follower in between. If the HPFP is pushing too hard on the follower, the cam is too soft, or even the follower is too soft, any of these three would cause the wear on the follower. If the HPFP was designed so that it only needed half as much pressure on the piston than the wear would be reduced regardless of the cam hardness.

      Assuming the aftermarket HPFPs are harder to push than stock (increased pressure on the shaft to push more fuel) I think it is reasonable to expect the wear to be accelerated. I don't know how much or how anyone would know without an extensive study.

    29. Member jmj's Avatar
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      03-11-2011 03:25 PM #134
      I'm not sure that anyone has made a correlation between aftermarket pumps and cam follower/shaft failures. I was on fully stock parts and wore through, as were a number of others who had the same problem.
      Quote Originally Posted by Taipei_E92 View Post
      If you generalize...you are always going to get it wrong.

    30. 03-11-2011 06:56 PM #135
      [QUOTE=dmorrow;70449988]I am not sure how we know which one is the main cause. The cam is . . . .

      Assuming the aftermarket HPFPs are harder to push than stock (increased pressure on the shaft to push more fuel) I think it is reasonable to expect the wear to be accelerated.

      Well it seems like the attempt to clarrify or unify our thinking is not shared by dmorrow.
      We can assume/theorize and talk about 'what ifs' for a few more months even though there are dozens of pictures that support the VWoA Tech-Service Bulliten that stated that there is insufficient hardness on the FP-Camshaft-Lobe . . . Does it seem like VWoA is likely to create TSB's which show problems with their manufacturing processes and give specific engineering recommendations are to be questioned in the way that we are second-guessing? I know that this is an open forum and that people do sometimes modify their engines. . . But the vast majority of the Vortex crowd are using a stock fuel pump and probably want to take the TSB seriously and don't need to second guess the obvious.
      The message [that Audi & VWoA - and owners - can read here] is muddy as ever and we can now "agree to differ" on this subject. Yeay!
      Please shoot me if i ever get up to 1300 posts to this website.
      .
      old daily driver: 2006 BPYengined 2.0turbo
      new daily driver: 2011 TDi Golf DSG

      occasional autocrosser: 2004 Honda S-2000

    31. 03-12-2011 12:25 AM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by j-deacon View Post
      To once more clarrify the core of this manufacturing defect and help us understand and share real [first-hand] information.
      Is it true that the HP-Fuel-Pump is actually eating through any of these Cam Follwers? Sorry if it seems like I am splitting hairs . . .
      My experience is not the same at all. I hope we can agree on the core of the problem; regardless of which HP-Fuel-Pump is in use. From most of what I've read on several Vortex threads and on the FB-Page, the insufficiently hardened Cam Lobe [as it wears down] sheds material and becomes an agressively abrasive member that grinds through the follower - and eventually the HP-Fuel-Pump actuator shaft. The uploaded pictures seem to consistently support this process. But the idea that the HP-Fuel Pump could be responsible for "eating through followers" seems like a new and yet to be documented theory. Not that it is impossible, just unlikely. But I am stating that [when we communicate anything to VWoA or Audi] that we cannot have it both ways.
      If some aftermarket or modified Fuel Pump is truley causing these same followers to wear out prematurely, then i suggest that is 1. a new development and 2. a seperate thread and 3. not a valid concern for VWoA to absorb and the people who read this thread probably will want to avoid because it confuses the original claim that the Cam-Shaft-Lobe is the root cause of our engine failures [or "abnormal" wear]
      No no no dude I posted that as a mistake the fuel pump does not eat through the follower I'm not even sure if that's technically possible? Idk, that's not how it happens

    32. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      03-12-2011 03:57 PM #137
      [QUOTE=j-deacon;70454375]
      Quote Originally Posted by dmorrow View Post
      I am not sure how we know which one is the main cause. The cam is . . . .

      Assuming the aftermarket HPFPs are harder to push than stock (increased pressure on the shaft to push more fuel) I think it is reasonable to expect the wear to be accelerated.

      Well it seems like the attempt to clarrify or unify our thinking is not shared by dmorrow.
      We can assume/theorize and talk about 'what ifs' for a few more months even though there are dozens of pictures that support the VWoA Tech-Service Bulliten that stated that there is insufficient hardness on the FP-Camshaft-Lobe . . . Does it seem like VWoA is likely to create TSB's which show problems with their manufacturing processes and give specific engineering recommendations are to be questioned in the way that we are second-guessing? I know that this is an open forum and that people do sometimes modify their engines. . . But the vast majority of the Vortex crowd are using a stock fuel pump and probably want to take the TSB seriously and don't need to second guess the obvious.
      The message [that Audi & VWoA - and owners - can read here] is muddy as ever and we can now "agree to differ" on this subject. Yeay!
      Please shoot me if i ever get up to 1300 posts to this website.
      Unify our thinking? What difference does it make which one causes the problem or if the aftermarket pumps make the bad condition worse? We know the problem occurs on completly stock cars and so does VW. Oh, you are right, if you get the 1% of the total population of 2.0T owners that come to this forum to agree to something you will really have VW shaking. I can't wait until you call VW and tell them what this forum has decided is the problem.

    33. 03-12-2011 04:15 PM #138
      Lol I'm not involved in this nvm

    34. 03-12-2011 06:13 PM #139
      some good info inthis thread...here is want happened to my car about three weeks ago

      Spent $650 on a APR rebuilt HPFP around october not knowing about this being a common issue. New cam follower was installed at this time also. was at 80k mile at this time. 5k miles later....








      I am not sure how I can get 80k miles on a stock HPFP and only 5k on an APR Rebuilt HPFP. So im thinking more along the lines of it having to do with the aftermarket HPFP. just my experience.

    35. Member Krieger's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 5th, 2009
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      4,182
      Vehicles
      Turbocharged 2004 Civic SI with K20/K24 engine swap, 2006 Audi A3
      03-12-2011 06:19 PM #140
      is it an A series Cam?
      2006 Audi A3 | 2.0T | 6MT | APR Stage 2+ | Fully loaded ECU | FK grill | EJ CAI | BSH TBP |EJ DV Reloc. | Eurojet TBE | EuroJet Catch Tank | Cross drilled and Slotted Rotors | EBC "Redstuff" Kevlar | Raceland Coilovers | Forge Side to Side Short Shifter | Forge Front to Back Short Shifter | Devil's Own DVC-30 Methanol injection | BSH RSB | BSH Motor mount Kit | 42 DD Shifter Bushings | HPFP Stage 1 upgrade |

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