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    Thread: VR6 Swap into a Audi A4 B5 Information

    1. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      12-27-2010 03:41 PM #1
      Just making a running thread that I will update the front page with new information on the swap as it comes by me or if anybody posts it up. If you have any new information on parts, part numbers, where to get parts, or anything about a build let me know and i'll get it on here. Pics to come soon.

      Things like engine management, turbos, etc will not be listed as that is all a basic turbo/engine build and has nothing to do with the swap itself. Also as of now there is no way to use the stock management to power the VR6 from an Audi. I will only mention if certain turbo manifolds do not fit as that information becomes available. As far as I know every manifold works currently except for the Kinetic manifold but I'm not 100% sure on this. I think the Kinetic manifold hits the passengers side strut tower.

      Apparently a starter from a VR5 will work. I don't know what model car it is, I think it's from the B5 VW Passat in Europe. Same with the flywheel. Two options I did not know about before. Might be able to cut down the price of the swap by a few hundred bucks if you can get those parts from across the pond but that's person specific. I'll get more info on that as I find more.

      I'm just putting these here for temp sakes until I can get all the info but there is a guy in Europe who has made a spacer/flywheel adapter to use an Audi 5cyl 7A flywheel in conjunction with a stock VW/Audi/Bosch starter. The starter is from the European VR5 Passat. I have contacted the guy and he said in one of his posts that he'd give out the plans for the spacer/adapter. After I get those plans from him I might have a few made up for us over here in the US in case anybody has access to European parts or people want to shop on ebay.de for the parts. I'm sure the VR5 starters are all over ebay along with the flywheels. In fact you'd probably want to get a L/W flywheel made here in the US that way the only european part is the starter. Starter part numbers are... VW: 012911023 BOSCH: 0001107070. This will be added to the list once I get the rest of the information on the spacer/adapter. The OEM starter also makes it so you don't have to cut/shave anything off for clearance.

      Images for the items listed in the last paragraph.







      Parts List
      Adapter plate - Touareg/ European Phaeton VR6 Adapter Plate, European VR5 Passat Adapter Plate, - 022103551А, 071 103 551A

      Flywheel

      Clutch - 034's Single Disc Flywheel works with the Audi I5 20v clutches, engines 7A/3B/AAN/ADU.

      Starter - 034
      Timing Chain Cover - MK4 Lower Timing Chain Cover
      Valve Cover
      • MK4 Plastic
      • MK3 Aluminum with one end chopped and welded shut

      Oil Pan
      • VR6 Phaeton from Europe - VAG-CAT : The Phaeton pan bolts up and clears everything.
      • Modified Touareg w/Modified Sub-Frame - Touareg pan needs to have the bottom cut and welded shut to be not as low and needs the sub-frame to be trimmed on the top. The Touareg pans can be had for 200-300 bucks used from Junkyards/LKQ/Car-Part.com.

      Intake Manifold - Any short runner should work but I'd recommend the following two
      • 034
      • SPA makes a cast one that has a nice output direction and is the same price. Find it on ebay.

      Makes a nice cheap one to go with the longitudinal setup or you can get an SPA manifold for the same price. I think the 034 is better for the money.

      Application Specific Parts
      12v Engine
      034 Motor Mounts or Custom Mounts - 034 Mounts are direct to the chassis and do not have any vibration dampening so if you want a smoother ride then you will need to make a set. Also the 034 mounts do not allow for an A/C compressor
      24v Engine
      Motor Mounts - Stock Mount from Touareg/Q7, not 100% sure

      You might be asking why a few of these parts are listed. The Mk4 items are for ease of installation. The Mk4 valve cover clears the hood unlike Mk3 ones and requires no modification. The Mk4 timing chain cover has a notch where it bulges out and it doesn't have the extra framing support. The reason why these are removed is because the 01A/01E transmissions won't mount flush if the notch isn't there. You can be cheap and shave part of your transmission off to cut the cost but timing chain covers are cheap. The reason for the new oil pan is to clear the sub frame and to bolt to the transmission. The transmission has two or four bolts that go through the bottom, the Touareg/Phaeton oil pan allow for these to be used.

      Somebody got the stock hood latch to work with the swap. I'll see if I can look up that information on that too. I think most people just go with hood pins though for ease of the swap.

      After you are done everybody needs to get this from 034.

      Adapter Plate


      034 Starter + Bolted Up




      Differences in the two timing chain covers. Notice notch that goes in where the timing chain cover bulges out.




      Modified MK3 Timing Chain Cover to fit


      Modified Transmission Bell Housing to fit Mk3 Timing Chain Cover


      The two valve covers, Mk4 first then Mk3




      Phaeton Oil Pan - Really hard to source here in the states. Being sold for 400+ by two places currently. if anybody has any connections over seas let us know.


      Clearance at the bottom of the pan from the stock sub frame


      Modified Touareg pan to work for the application. These can be had for 200-300 bucks used.


      Sub frame had to be modified to fit the Touareg pan if I am correct. Not 100% sure that it HAD to be modified or not. Either way it's a pretty simple and straight forward change.


      SPA's Intake Manifold. Click the 034 link above to view theirs.


      034's Engine Cradle/Mount Pics








      The following are custom mounts made by others who have done this swap. Some harder and more complicated than others.








      24v OEM Mounts used in this application on a 24v motor


      Last edited by CDJetta; 02-09-2011 at 12:06 AM.

    2. Member
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      12-27-2010 05:08 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by CDJetta View Post

      After you are done everybody needs to get this from 034.
      Wait a sec....

    3. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      12-28-2010 04:15 PM #3
      From my build so far!

      Swap Parts Acquired:
      1. Adapter plate
      2. 034 Single Disc Flywheel
      3. 600hp capable clutch, full face, sprung
      4. 034 Starter
      5. MK4 Valve Cover
      6. MK4 Timing Chain Covers
      7. 1997 Audi A4 12v V6 w/ 01A 5-Speed Quattro Tranny
      8. Phaeton direct bolt on oil pan


      Engine Parts Acquired:
      1. Ebay A/W Intercooler
      2. 3/4" Water Line
      3. Jabsco Water Pump
      4. 5 JE Pistons
      5. MK3 VR6 Rebuild Kit w/ ARP Hardware
      6. MK3 Engine from Automatic 1997 Jetta Parts Car
      7. 60lb Injectors
      8. Titanium Valve Spring Retainers
      9. Supertech Valve Springs


      Items Needed
      Exhaust Manifold
      Downpipe/Exhaust Exit
      Intake Manifold - SPA
      Charge Piping
      Stand Alone - MS3
      Bolts, Nuts, Washers, etc
      Coolant Lines
      Oil Lines
      Turbo Coolant Lines
      Fender
      Hood
      Cams - Current head has nothing
      1 JE Piston + Rings
      MK4 Valve Cover Gasket
      Ignition Setup - Plugs, Wires, Coil
      Last edited by CDJetta; 11-21-2011 at 12:18 PM.

    4. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      12-30-2010 10:36 AM #4
      Slowly going through my swap. Engine and tranny are pulled from my Audi. VR6 engine is on the stand waiting to be rebuilt. I'll get pics up of the bolting together of the tranny and the engine with the adapter plate. I've heard that some people have drilled extra holes because there aren't many used but my initial bolt up yesterday with the adapter plate to the tranny used seven bolts. Didn't try to get it bolted up to the engine though.

    5. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      01-06-2011 04:03 PM #5
      Two things....
      1. My build is on delay. For New Years I decided to have a bon fire and start it with gas. Not a smart move on my part. Went to light it and it blew up on me giving me 2nd degree burns on my arms and face. So build is postponed for a few weeks while my skin re-grows.

      2. Gave in and I ordered a brand new oil pan from Automation place that I linked in the first post. I was thinking about modifying a Touareg pan but I'm pretty sure the sub frame still needs to be modified with that and there's already enough stuff to deal with. That should be here in a few days.

    6. 01-06-2011 07:23 PM #6
      Love the write up. Keep it coming. Have you thought about using an ECU from a 2.7T and then using Maestro7 for tuning?

      I've been using Maestro on a 1.8t for the last few weeks and it doe offer lots of adjustments once one figures out what each item does.

      My plan at some point will be to install a SAAB 2.3T into the 2001A4Q though this looks really interesting.

    7. Member Camride's Avatar
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      01-07-2011 09:39 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by CDJetta View Post
      Two things....
      1. My build is on delay. For New Years I decided to have a bon fire and start it with gas. Not a smart move on my part. Went to light it and it blew up on me giving me 2nd degree burns on my arms and face. So build is postponed for a few weeks while my skin re-grows.
      First, I hope you heal quickly. Second: I'm laughing because I know two people that have done the same thing, both got burned pretty good (nothing serious, which is sounds like yours isn't either or you wouldn't be posting). I feel like I should treat you the same as my friends so I'll tell you what I told them: Dumbass!

      Good luck on the build, this looks pretty cool!
      2001.5 A4 1.8TQ Tiptronic - FrankenTurbo F4L - 440cc Green Giants - TT225 MAF - Borla exhaust - Tuning by Malone (in progress) - Garrett FMIC

    8. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      01-07-2011 10:24 AM #8
      Yeah. That's pretty much what everybody says. I hope you heal fine, retard. Which yeah, it was a super dumb thing to do but I blame it on the alcohol. :p Hopefully I heal soon and I can get working on it again. At the point right now where I just need to go to the local hardware store and get a ton of bolts and nuts to put the whole monstrosity together but I gotta wait for the oilpan to come in first.

    9. Junior Member Euroxk3's Avatar
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      01-12-2011 01:53 PM #9
      Does it matter if the b5 was a 1.8t or 2.8 prior to the swap. I've looked around and cant find the answer.

    10. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      01-12-2011 02:28 PM #10
      Nope. The subframes should be the same between the two and the transmission should be the same, a 01A. I've heard the 01A is good for 500-600 or so till things break. The 01E in the S4's is good for 800+. I'm going with the 01A to see how it lasts in the 600whp range. If it breaks, I'll get a S4 trans setup.

    11. Member CoopaCoopaCoopa's Avatar
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      01-18-2011 01:31 AM #11
      Any estimation at a final cost to have it running?


      This is a really good write up, keep it goin!

    12. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      01-18-2011 01:37 AM #12
      Probably going to be around 10k at minimum when all said and done. I still need to purchase standalone, fueling, ignition, turbo, piping, coolant lines.

    13. 01-18-2011 04:18 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by CDJetta View Post
      Nope. The subframes should be the same between the two and the transmission should be the same, a 01A. I've heard the 01A is good for 500-600 or so till things break. The 01E in the S4's is good for 800+. I'm going with the 01A to see how it lasts in the 600whp range. If it breaks, I'll get a S4 trans setup.
      You will need a 01E if you plan on making more then 500whp. I know people that have broken the 01A's even when making 400whp. I was lucky enough to get mine to hold together while making 500-570whp, but the minute I started making 600whp 3rd gear just kept letting go just as I shifted into that gear. I broke 2 within a few weeks of each other on the first test run of each one.

      If you plan on running a 01A you might want to use a flow control valve to slip the clutch.

    14. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      01-18-2011 04:51 PM #14
      Oh I plan on it breaking. I just want to get the car up and running on low boost before I go and dump 1500 bucks into the 01E swap.

    15. Member b5a4gt28's Avatar
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      01-18-2011 11:29 PM #15
      CDJetta you the man.

    16. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      01-24-2011 12:03 PM #16
      Re-did some of the info up top to be more organized but nothing new on my car. Still waiting for that oil pan to come in so that I can get it all bolted up and fitted into the car. Should have came in last week.

    17. 01-26-2011 11:44 AM #17
      Great write up - thanks alot man

    18. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      02-08-2011 04:50 PM #18
      Got carried away last weekend. Thought I should make a stand for the vr6 and bolt the tranny to it so I got some of my 1/4" angle scrap and made a engine test stand. Still needs the components for it but it's welded together. Just need to finish up my sand blaster setup and I'll strip it and repaint it. I don't really need the test stand but I've been wanting to make one for a while. Should make bolting it all together and test fitting things a lot easier. :p


    19. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      02-08-2011 05:15 PM #19
      Found some more info. Posting the link here just for reference when I get home from work so I can go through it and add the info to the top. Here's a guy that didn't buy the 034 flywheel. He said he'd offer the adapter/spacer for the audi flywheel so I might send him some money for it so that I can get my hands on it and maybe have a few made up for people that want to go that route.

      He also found the OEM starter that will work. They are all European parts so if you have a connection to that stuff then this could make your swap even easier. Also the OEM starter doesn't require you to modify the block/tranny at all.

      http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.p...35242&start=25

    20. Member EuroSportChicago's Avatar
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      02-08-2011 07:09 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by CRAIG1MACK View Post
      Great write up - thanks alot man
      x2
      Quote Originally Posted by aphythiate View Post
      I don't understand what you said. I'm guessing you did a "dump'n'go" minus the go.
      Quote Originally Posted by RayMkIIIvdub View Post
      where are the muffler bearings and is that something i can change myself

    21. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      02-09-2011 12:07 AM #21
      I have now added some more info about the alternate flywheel/starter combo that can be had. I will officially put them into the list once I get the rest of the information on the spacer/adapter for said setup.

      Note to myself... copy images to my own server so that they stay up for as long as I want them and not other people.

    22. Member haenszel's Avatar
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      02-09-2011 12:33 PM #22
      Stole my pics!

      I woudln't even bother with the 01a. Seriously. Just get the 01e from the beginning. It's not even funny how quickly they break.
      10.201@143.35mph - VR6T

    23. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      02-09-2011 12:37 PM #23
      Waiting for the 01E is going to put me back another few months at minimum. They use the same clutches and what not so it's not like I'm spending extra cash to do the 01A. I'm sure it'll break but I'm hoping I can at least get it running and on low boost running 100% with the 01A.

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      02-09-2011 05:20 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by CDJetta View Post
      Found some more info. Posting the link here just for reference when I get home from work so I can go through it and add the info to the top. Here's a guy that didn't buy the 034 flywheel. He said he'd offer the adapter/spacer for the audi flywheel so I might send him some money for it so that I can get my hands on it and maybe have a few made up for people that want to go that route.

      He also found the OEM starter that will work. They are all European parts so if you have a connection to that stuff then this could make your swap even easier. Also the OEM starter doesn't require you to modify the block/tranny at all.

      http://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.p...35242&start=25
      Hi CDJetta and all members here.
      I actually post on VWvortex forums but only on "2.8 12V" and "forced induction" so far. Never had a look here.
      So, about my FW adapter. I'm not rich guy and I need money for my project as most of you too. The FW adapter drawing is not for sale though, it is for free. I have sent it already to few members. I just don't want somebody to make profits from my idea.
      Here is the drawing. I'm sorry it is the only one I have and is hand made. FW bolts part number is also included. You must consult with metal engineer about the FW adapter material(steel). Better use higher quality one. You could check with attached photo to get better picture of the drawing.
      Have to warn you guys though. My project is still in build phase and nothing has been tested for strength etc under real rpm/load conditions. It just fits and matches with all parts around.

      That's all. If you need some more info please just ask.
      Regards to all !

    25. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      02-09-2011 05:30 PM #25
      Thanks a ton VR-Vagman. From recent threads on the Audizine forums it appears as though the 034 single disc flywheel is having some problems because of their materials they used for the ring gear. So far two users have reported that it has cracked on them or a tooth has broken. I am still far away from putting all my stuff together but if it turns out to be a problem that I have to pay more for then I might switch over to this if your swap turns out to be good to go. I like the thought of being able to use any after-market flywheel out there that is available for the Audi I5 engines. It opens up the choices a lot more.

      Thanks for the drawing. I'm going to put it into auto cad and post up that file too for people who don't know auto cad so they can go to their local CNC shop to get one made up too.

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      02-09-2011 06:02 PM #26
      Hi, CDJetta,

      Think 034 starter has very powerfull magnet to engage the ...bendix?(smal gear) with FW gear. Also think that FW gear could be ordered as OEM part since I believe 034 FW is exact copy of 7A FW just a bit deeper to accept the 30mm wide VR6-01A/E adapter plate. My 7A FW is also lightened about 3 kilos at the back side:






      Also my adaptor plate rework to get one more attaching point to cyl block and to gearbox housing:

    27. 02-11-2011 11:13 AM #27
      Very Nice Set up!

    28. 03-08-2011 05:34 PM #28
      If possible, please post the OEM part #'s for the parts associated with the swap... this would help with sourcing from various outlets.
      Bumblebee Tuna

    29. Member DubPerfectionist's Avatar
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      07-01-2011 02:48 PM #29
      Can to get me the part number for the phaeton oil pan please? I checked on vag cat but want to make sure it's the right number for my euro connection to look for. Thanks in advance
      EEMILITIA
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    30. Member naudia4's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 07:35 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by DubPerfectionist View Post
      Can to get me the part number for the phaeton oil pan please? I checked on vag cat but want to make sure it's the right number for my euro connection to look for. Thanks in advance
      Phaeton Oil pan: 022 103 603 D

      What are you guys doing as far as power steering pumps go? Stock VR6?

    31. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 07:40 PM #31
      I don't have all mine together yet still. I'm slow. :p I've got the mounts, pan, tranny, and motor all together right now. Suppose I should test fit the accessories and PS pump. I think 034 used a Corrado pump but I'm not 100% sure on that.

    32. Member CDJetta's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 07:46 PM #32
      Just looked and I don't see a difference between the two so I don't think it matters. I'll slap it onto the block in a day or two when I get some time.

    33. Member DubPerfectionist's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 08:05 PM #33
      Thanks for the part number. I haver got to the p/s set up yet. Let me know if you guys figure anything out. I'm a slow builder too. No time lol
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    34. 02-13-2012 02:13 PM #34
      any info on running no turbo to start? cost wise? id be building custom mounting brackets, so that would drop the cost a bit. standalone would be the biggest expense. but id need intake mani, starter, adapter plate, and id run stock exhaust mani to custom downpipe. (i work for an exhaust and rolll cage shop) i think i can do this for a reasonable price. then later i could build and boost

    35. Member haenszel's Avatar
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      02-13-2012 02:16 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatA4T View Post
      any info on running no turbo to start? cost wise? id be building custom mounting brackets, so that would drop the cost a bit. standalone would be the biggest expense. but id need intake mani, starter, adapter plate, and id run stock exhaust mani to custom downpipe. (i work for an exhaust and rolll cage shop) i think i can do this for a reasonable price. then later i could build and boost
      Mine is currently "N/A" -- aka open exhaust manifold and I've driven it around the parking lot of the shop a few times, and let me tell you....... it sucks.
      10.201@143.35mph - VR6T

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