2.5 Intake Timing Chain Issues

[indybuell]

I have a 2005.5 MK5 Jetta. It has a grand total of 71k miles on it. The CEL recently came on, and through a P0016 error. Cam and Crank timing sensors reporting an error. I took it in. Well, the timing chain has totally worn down the gear on the intake cam shaft. The tensioner is all the way out, and the chain is stretched beyond use. This is screaming engineering fail. Has this happened to anyone else? I took it to a well respected local euro garage, and paid $3k to have them fix it. They replaced the timing chain, all of the guides, gaskets, chain, and gears. It runs like a champ now, but I shouldn't have had to drop $3k on a 5 year old car that has been impeccably cared for.

Would love to know if this is happening to anyone else, and if there is an active recall or case with VW, or class action suit starting. I want my $3k back.

[DCLarios]

That's very unfortunate. Me and my wife each own Jetta's. I had an '07 I just traded in for a TDI and her's is an '08 both with the 2.5L. We both put over 80K mi on our cars in less than two years, and I haven't noticed any sign of timing chain issues. I'd like to think the 2.5L is a solid engine, but it does sound like you may have ended up with a lemon for an engine. There is no reason why the timing chain should have catastrophically failed like that, short of bad maintenance. I certainly hope your rebuild lasts you much longer. Good Luck!

[thygreyt]

most of the "affected" engines are the early 05s and 06s... you should consider an engine change.

[classicjetta]

Yeah seems to be an increasingly common problem on the 05.5 and early 06 cars. You should call 1-800-822-8987 and politely explain your situation. You may qualify for at least a partial reimbursement since you're not that far out of warranty.

[VDUBVWJETTA]

I have my Volkswagen service paper that my timing chain change at 104,000 mileage at VW dealership and it cost total $874.71 to get fix.

[indybuell]

What all did they change out? For me, they had to replace the intake cam, the tensioners, the pulleys, the guides,. the gears, and the chain itself.

[Nick_C]

Did any of you that have had this problems notice anything prior to needed the repair? My car is a 06 with around 80k KM and I'm noticing my motor seems to make a ticking notice at idle...Sounds like a sewing machine. Wondering if this is a sign of bad things to come.

[EricRK]

My chain skipped almost a year ago at 73k miles, all said and done it was $1600+ in diagnostics to find the cause, dealer quoted $3200 for timing chain replacement, so instead I got a motor off car-part.com and had a local shop install it. Cheaper to put in a motor with 35k than to rebuild part of one with almost 75k. VW Corporate essentially said they'd never heard of timing chain problems on the early MKV's and instead of any kind of break, they offered me $500 off a purchase of a new VW.

[rustlerdude]

I also have to vouch for the 05.5-EARLY 06 chain failures. They redesigned them in 06 and again in 08 to prevent this.

[mk5RABt]

early 2.5l are plauged with valve train issues...get a new model...they've only gotta better.

[Finkle56]

I just had this happen recently, 2 days ago to be exact. I am wondering if I have a leg to stand on with VW. I mean it is about 10000km out of warranty, I bought it a year and a bit ago and this just happened. Is it worth complaining to vw about it and try to get them to do something being it seems this is a common theme of this engine? I think the worse part of all of this was when I bought this car I asked if there was any known issues with it, I guess a timing chain slip was considered a known issue then.

Anyways, is it just less expensive for a replacement engine? What should I be looking for from the mechanic doing the swap? Sorry I am so pissed and a noob with cars that I am at a loss what to do outside of taking a shot gun to the engine and say " Now it is dead".

[irishman13]

This just happened to me. I have in being repaired at a local Euro garage with a quoted repair of $2,100.00. The problem is they don't know the extent of damage until they get into it so this could end up running closer to $3,000 all said and done.

I filed a complaint with VW customer service and they pretty much said too bad but we will give you a $1,000 towards a new car which I told them to shove it. I have just under 79,000 miles on the car. I am friends with an owner of the local VW dealership and they told me this is a known problem that is why the timing chain was re-designed in '06 and again in '08. VW will not admit to it though. I filed a complaint with the BBB and the NHTSA hoping maybe it will spur a recall. I think the more people putting in complaints VW will eventually have to acknowledge the issue. I too am extremely pissed now that I am reading that this is becoming more of a problem with these cars all hitting 60K-80K. I have always made sure I kept up on the maintenance and even kept records of everything. This should not be happening to a car with only 79K on it.

ANYONE THAT HAS HAD THIS PROBLEM PLEASE FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE BBB AND NHTSA! THE MORE THE COMPLAINTS THEY GET THE BETTER CHANCE OF SOMETHING BEING DONE ABOUT IT.

[indybuell]

Definitely call VW of America and report the issue. The more of us that report it, the better chance of a recall or a TSB or some slim chance we can get our money back.

I would take it to the dealer and get a quote. I found a local Euro Garage that has a stellar reputation that took care of mine. Cost me $3200 when all was said and done. A new motor from VW installed can be close to $5k.

Good luck.

[indybuell]

irishman,

Where do you complain to the BBB and NHTSA? Is it an online form, or a phone #?

[irishman13]

The BBB I did online. If you visit the website it is right on the home page. The NHTSA you can do online, I submitted mine over the phone. I don't know if anything will happen with this but I figure it can't hurt.

[Finkle56]

I just got the quote tonight from the garage it will be fixed at. He is putting in a 2008 engine with 80,000km on it for 2900 cdn. He will also be going over the timing chain and making sure it is perfect.

I am going to be bring the whole engine ( the mechanic even is allowing me to use his truck) to an authorized VW dealer, which is where I was told to bring the car after I had asked them 4 times what I should do and on the last return call told me to get the car to the shop. Hey morons, I need my car for work so the repairs had started. I informed them that the engine will be deliveried once out and if they do not accept it, I will be deliverying to VW canada's door and let them know how I feel about this bullet proof engine of theirs that is costing me so much. I bought this car for its high rating and till now a solid vehicle. If it wasn't for the the dealer I bought it from being so good to me and helping navigate the bs of vw, i would not own another one.

Funny thing about my call to vw today, after all that bs they still informed me about a minor recall on a wire harness for the airbag and asked when I would be bring it in to get looked at. Thanks for taking care of my main issue VW

[irishman13]

Finkle56, file a complaint with the BBB and NHTSA, the more complaints they get the more pressure VW will get about doing something. Hey the worst nothing happens which is what is being done now, or they could end up covering the repair costs.

[Finkle56]

Can I do that from Canada or what?

[Nick_C]

I just got the quote tonight from the garage it will be fixed at. He is putting in a 2008 engine with 80,000km on it for 2900 cdn. He will also be going over the timing chain and making sure it is perfect.

I am going to be bring the whole engine ( the mechanic even is allowing me to use his truck) to an authorized VW dealer, which is where I was told to bring the car after I had asked them 4 times what I should do and on the last return call told me to get the car to the shop. Hey morons, I need my car for work so the repairs had started. I informed them that the engine will be deliveried once out and if they do not accept it, I will be deliverying to VW canada's door and let them know how I feel about this bullet proof engine of theirs that is costing me so much. I bought this car for its high rating and till now a solid vehicle. If it wasn't for the the dealer I bought it from being so good to me and helping navigate the bs of vw, i would not own another one.

Funny thing about my call to vw today, after all that bs they still informed me about a minor recall on a wire harness for the airbag and asked when I would be bring it in to get looked at. Thanks for taking care of my main issue VW

Extremely crappy deal man... Did you notice any warning signs before your motor went? How many KM on the car when it went? I only ask cause I'm sitting at 80km and I'm dreading this may happen to me.

[Finkle56]

Extremely crappy deal man... Did you notice any warning signs before your motor went? How many KM on the car when it went? I only ask cause I'm sitting at 80km and I'm dreading this may happen to me.

The Check engine light came on and it had a rough start in the morning. It seemed like an ignition coil was going as I had the issue before. It ran normal after 15 seconds and that was it. That night engine was not starting at all. Saw the valves and they were bent in a nice c shape. So it went big but no real sign.


As for mileage, I had 153,000 km. I put 50,000 of that on myself but the rest was before. I bought it pre-loved as VW says. I guess pre loved means you better love your vw more. Get your timing chain inspected, it has no maintenance schedule so they may look at you funny but just say you have heard of it jumping. If they are any good they will look into it and inspect it. Funny that it isn't something that the 2.5 has for maintenance checking.

[nitrodub16]

Does anyone know when they redesigned the chain (i.e. VIN range?) I just recently bought an '06 with 61k and would rather change the chain before these issues rear their ugly faces!

[indybuell]

From what I have been able to find out, all of the 06's were affected.

I would suggest spending some money on a couple of hours at a respectable Euro garage to pull the intake timing cover off, and see what the damage is if any. Another clue that I had is that when I was initially trying to figure out what the problem with the car was, there were some small bits of metal shavings in the oil. These turned out to be coming from the cam gear itself.

[nitrodub16]

Thanks for the info i will look into it and if i find anymore out i'll be sure to post it up

[thygreyt]

guys, the chain isnt the issue.

however, the chain is what DOES the damage.

the guide and/or the tensioner fails, and the chain slips, and it messes up timing, and in the end, you have broken/bent valves and/or more

[AtalayaBoze]

So, my car threw code P0016 after we replaced the plugs yesterday. Now it has this horrible grinding on acceleration. I'm waiting for two dealers to call me back with quotes for the full service. Oh and both dealers VW customer care say they have never heard of this issue before but ma'am you have a wiring harness recall for the airbag that we can take care of when you come in.

I've been so happy with my car until today.

[classicjetta]

So, my car threw code P0016 after we replaced the plugs yesterday. Now it has this horrible grinding on acceleration. I'm waiting for two dealers to call me back with quotes for the full service. Oh and both dealers VW customer care say they have never heard of this issue before but ma'am you have a wiring harness recall for the airbag that we can take care of when you come in.

I've been so happy with my car until today.

Bummer. The "we've never heard of this before" is a standard response, don't think it means the techs won't know exactly what's wrong.

Definitely get the wiring harness fixed, but don't feel obligated to have the chain/guide issues fixed at the dealer if there are shops that specialize in VWs in your area.

[Jayj]

The chain is a hit and miss issue, it does stretch as I have replaced maybe 10 as a dealer tech over a 5-6 year span. Usually it's just the upper chain that is the problem. Never saw any cam sprocket collateral damage though. Your issue must have been developing for quite a while. A bad sign might include a fairly Distinctive slapping noise against the chain cover that you can localize with a stethoscope or long screwdriver and a cam deviation/advanced fault. Considering how many 2.5 vw's were sold in North America, the number of issues are comparatively small. Every part on that car has an associated failure rate. Sorry you're going through the bull**** but it happens.

[bryanp22]

I am having this issue it seems for a second time. My 2005.5 2.5 is at the dealership today. It was replaced a little under 12,000 miles ago so we will see what they say on the parts warranty. Could this be because of the oil I use or the frequency that I change it? I use Mobile 1 0w40, and change it every 10,000 miles like the owners manual suggests. Anyone else having better luck with a different oil or should I start changing it at 5,000 miles?

[indybuell]

Thats what they all say. Let us know how much it costs you. My guess is atleast $2k.

[bryanp22]

The dealership called yesterday saying VW would be covering the repair of all parts relating to the timing chain replacement. If anything else comes up during that process he'd call and let me know.

[Trench]

I own a '06 Jetta (that is now at 90k miles) and when i heard about the timing issue i started researching it. Mostly reading forum posts and reading a few consumer reviews that dealt with the timing, it seems that the timing issue does occur more with people that follow the 10k mile service. I noticed that my dealer a couple years ago went from a 10k service interval to recommending a 5k mile service interval.

I dont remember where i read it (it most likely was on BTOG) that many jetta owners that do their oil analysis say they dont recommend going over 5k miles and at most they would change oil at 7.5k miles.

My guess is the early jettas are affected more by a higher (10k mile) oil change interval than the later ones due to the redesign in the later models. So if you have a 05-06 2.5l, drop to a 5k mile service if the cost of doing that doesnt hurt you in the wallet to much.

[indybuell]

The dealership called yesterday saying VW would be covering the repair of all parts relating to the timing chain replacement. If anything else comes up during that process he'd call and let me know.

What? What?

How many miles did you have? Do you have a reference number?

[dissonance]

Yes, any more info on VW owning up to their shoddy engineering please!

I am trying to help my mom with her 2005.5. I need to find someone who has undertaken this repair themselves so I can try to save her about $1500 that she really doesn't have. Have been unable to locate a DIY or FAQ and I know I will need the RB manual anyway, but I am trying to conceptualize if this is something that I can pull off in 3 days next week. I have above average competence with car repair and a reasonable facility to work in, but obviously can't go into this one without all the info. Any tips please! For the story of this incident keep reading...

My mom is original owner of '05.5 Jetta 2.5, regular maintenance, 63k miles. She got a camshaft position sensor error about a week and a half ago around the same time it started to make a clattering nose at low load and low RPM. She had the code pulled and cleared and it didn't return. The next day my brother went by to check it out and he told her there was definitely something wrong and that she should go nowhere but carefully the few miles to the dealer. I checked it out and it clatters on start up (something that she has complained about several times and been told by dealer is normal on these cars since new). It idles smooth, then will shake intermittently. The sound can be produced by raising RPM to maybe 2k or so in park, and at low load as it passes through that range. The dealer told her that the timing chain is stretched and needs replaced. I told her that she really ought to call VW because there should be no good reason that a critical major engine component fails like that and at that mileage. VW apparently said they'd pay for 25% of the bill, or give her $1500 off a new VW.

I also told her to try to blame the dealer, since a year ago when she went to have the coils replaced they ended up replacing the entire cylinder head. Yes, that's right. She went to have the coils replaced and they found that the plugs also needed replacing. Then they called her and said it would be a little while as they were ordering a new head from VW. I read the tech notes on her invoice and it said something to the effect of "Check engine light on. Verified concern, removed (whatever) and found camshaft (adjuster thingy whatever) pin sheared off and intake cam not turning; replaced (whole damn cylinder head). Then of course they sent VW a bill for something over $5000. Soooo... she drove the car in perfectly operational for a coil recall and they "found intake cam not turning"? WTF? If I was in to conspiracies I would say the dealer is trying to scam some $$$ from VWoA. They offered no explanation, and she didn't understand enough about it to ask more. Anyway... their response to this new problem is that since it is hydraulically tensioned it couldn't be anything they did that caused this failure.

Bottom line they told her:

"Hello Ms. (My Mom)
> Here is the estimate to replace timing chains $ 2296.54 and VW will pay 25% which equals to $ 574.13 , Your cost $ 1722.41 plus tax , Waterpump is leaking and to repair and
> replace waterpump = $ 493.00 plus tax . Please let me Know if you want it repaired ,We still need to order parts . Thank you so much .
>
>(Service Dude)

So, I'm pissed at VW, pissed at the dealer, and really pissed that they want an extra $500 to replace a $100 water pump when they are already in there (or am I wrong about that?).

So my thoughts so far are:
1. I understand basic engineering principals and I know that everything has a rate of failure but it seems like in modern automobiles this should be exceedingly rare and therefore VW can afford to step up to the plate here. Unless thousands of cars are affected in which case they might try to dodge the issue.
2. Without knowing intimate details of previous work I don't know what the dealer might have done, but I at least blame them for repeatedly telling her that clattering valve train noises are normal in these cars (are they?) ...and for being a sheisty dealer overall to begin with.
3. I don't want to spend a week of my time sorting this out, but worst case I can get all of the parts from ECS for $500 an RB DVD for $90 and I'll have an excuse to buy a couple more tools. Then lock myself in the garage for 3 days and I can probably pull it off for $1500 less even with VW's discount.

Thoughts?

[LampyB]

well for one if you can't get the dealer to cover the repair is there another dealership within a reasonable distance to take it to? you can always get a second opinion. i would also call VWoA and file a formal complaint or open a case. if VWoA starts giving you a hard time i would just throw it out there that you're considering taking them to court if its not covered. especially if you can find the paperwork or case # for VWoA footing the bill for the guy above.

the best thing you can do is call them ASAP to get the ball rolling, as it may take a while if they do decide to cover it. Also, if you have the dealer do the work it'll be easier to document the cost of the job should VW decide to reimburse you for the job. If you do it yourself, yes you'll save a bunch of money, but its a whole other story trying to get reimbursed for parts you just bought online to get the job done.

what a bummer man, i really feel for you. in the future you might want to let your mom know to try and stay away from the first generation of a new vehicle, as there are ALWAYS problems that come up and get worked out by the time the car has been produced for 2-3 years. another strong case in point is the cam follower issue on the 2.0T FSI...the common problem was fixed after two years and 08+ models are good to go (TSI).

[nate122]

So this only applies to 05.5-06 jettas?