Honda engine into MK2 chassis

[ShaggysGTI]

So I'm throwing the idea around and more and more it seems like a good idea. The car currently in question is an 87 GTI with a 2l 16v. I have a g60 waiting to be made into a 16vg60, but the idea of putting a b18 or b20 is tempting. The local market is flooded with good honda parts, and for good prices. Just about everything would be fairly easy to make, or make work, but just a couple concerns. I'm sure many have attempted this, but does anyone have any pictures? Particularly of mounts, or axles. Actually, if you have any pictures of odd swaps in Volkswagens, they could be helpful. Please, no hating. I know this is blasphemy, but its my car, and the big picture for me is in the process of making this work. I have another 87 1.8l 16v that will probably just get the supercharger instead. Anyone interested in throwing ideas around and helping out?
Shags

[CorrieG60]

Already been done, and in a way I would say: me like... (even though it is an japanese engine, but they're build to last...)
http://vagdrivers.net/forums/index.p...opic=8432&st=0

happy reading!

[ShaggysGTI]

That's extremely helpful, thanks! I dabbled in the Honda crowd in the past, and my shining achievement was a 93 Si hatch, with a H23A from the Euro Accord Type R. Very fast, lots of fun. I have owned 9 Civic hatchbacks in total. Something about the hatchback really pulls me in, and I like the european style of my mk2. I'm kinda knowledgable in the Honda game, so wiring for this swap doesn't scare me... Thanks again!

[TDiPusher19t]

go for it...im planning a similar swap....i want everyones head on here to spin off their shoulders and blow up...

[hyperformancevw]

first off...don't do it, but if you are...at least put a k series in it. you can get b series power and probably more torque with a 20/20 and very little custom parts.

[TDiPusher19t]

[TDiPusher19t]

just for that im getting a gsr stroker tonight.......

[ShaggysGTI]

well thats the reason im thinking of doing a b-series, to keep costs down. A h-series tempts me because I know a lot about them, and the cost is extremely low, and it has a cable actuated transmission. but everyone has a b-series, and parts for them...

[hyperformancevw]

if you want to get into a pissing match...i'm not going to do it. i'm going to make my point and that's all. if price is a factor, a 20/20 or something like that is cheap to build and with a few tweaks makes decent power. like more than a stock b16 and about the same as a b18 with more torque. you can rule out the b18c5 because of price. i understand you can build hybrids like ls/vtec and b20vtec but it would still be same price as 20/20 if not more. then you have to factor in all the fab work and all the nickel and dime stuff like custom axles and such. by the time you are done, its not worth it unless having some frankenstien of a car just for the sake of having it is worth the extra cost and effort. if you want a honda because it is cheap to build, then buy a honda car and bolt in the honda motor. if you like vw bodies, then for god sake just build a mild vw motor and enjoy. my head will not explode from a purist standpoint, i just cant justify all the extra work if you aren't really gaining much. then you have to look at maintenance parts. break an axle? well you can't just run to the local parts store and pick one up. its completely custom. if you aren't looking to go all out, there is no point in a honda swap. if you want the car to run mid 13 1/4 mile, handle good, get decent mileage, and be reliable, a mild 20/20 will do that with ease. just my opinion.

[TDiPusher19t]

sooo..youre basically telling after sourcing a 20v head and turning into a 20/20 swap ill make power like a stock honda motor???? sounds great...

[hyperformancevw]

first off...don't do it, but if you are...at least put a k series in it. you can get b series power and probably more torque with a 20/20 and very little custom parts.

and you can chill with the "armchair mechanic' stuff...built quite a few things just because i dont post a new thread every time i wax my car doesnt mean i dont know how to build something.

check the n/a 8v top 1/4 mile list. show me a faster street 8v. still had a lot teft in the setup too never did fine tune it. i just dont get it. i will never have a honda motor in any vw. if i was hell bent on a k20 or b series, i would just buy a honda. yes the k20 is a better engine. so is an gm ls series v8. why not just put an ls1 in it?

[Fireblade RX-7]

Thanks Fireblade RX7 for all the input so far. The green rabbit that you posted up, or even the white caddy, do you have any other information on those cars? Also, are you regestered on VAGdrivers? I want to ask the guy about the K-swap for pictures of any work he has done recently. His signiture leads me to believe he has it finished.

No problem, glad I could help. I've only seen pictures of the cars in question and nothing else, unfortunately. This is the only VW site I'm registered on as I don't currently own one, was looking for a Scirocco, but haven't gotten one yet.

I'm pretty sure that Corrado is running, he has an in car video up of him driving it around.

hyperformancevw
i just dont get it. i will never have a honda motor in any vw. if i was hell bent on a k20 or b series, i would just buy a honda. yes the k20 is a better engine. so is an gm ls series v8. why not just put an ls1 in it?

Well that's your problem that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Unless you have something constructive to add instead of skewed and biased opinions, I'd suggest that you take that crap somewhere else.

[impulse byer]

If you look at the Rabbit It must be right hand drive. Witch would make it easier to swap (imo) but there looks to be no room behind the motor so you would need some sort of aftermarket pedat set up for the b series swap. Cool idea though being an n/a guy myself

[TDiPusher19t]

kinda unrelated but still cool

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

you want a honda get a honda i dont think any dub should have a honda motor in it.

Don't get your skinny jeans in a bunch The simple fact that you refer to them as "dubs" makes you an asshat

[MikkiJayne]

The simple fact that you refer to them as "dubs" makes you an asshat

Like 'Dubin' in your S/N?

[g60vwr]

Like 'Dubin' in your S/N?

Lol...

I personally think its awesome. Its not my cup of tea but maybe when some of you kids grow up you will realize that there is no point to being so euro-centric.

Swapping motors between makes has been done for years, what is wrong with creating something better than one manufacturer could have?

[Prof315]

Lol...

I personally think its awesome. Its not my cup of tea but maybe when some of you kids grow up you will realize that there is no point to being so euro-centric.

Swapping motors between makes has been done for years, what is wrong with creating something better than one manufacturer could have?

agreed The swap I'd love to do is Ecotec Turbo into a Mk2 or Mk3....

[B4S]

agreed The swap I'd love to do is Ecotec Turbo into a Mk2 or Mk3....

Dude...me too. Except mine would be carbed NA .

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

Like 'Dubin' in your S/N?

My screen name is meant to be sarcastic. Ive been toying with VW's since 95.

Lol...

I personally think its awesome. Its not my cup of tea but maybe when some of you kids grow up you will realize that there is no point to being so euro-centric.

Swapping motors between makes has been done for years, what is wrong with creating something better than one manufacturer could have?

This

[MikkiJayne]

My screen name is meant to be sarcastic. Ive been toying with VW's since 95.

Yeah I'm just teasing Still got you beat by 5 years tho

Not knocking these swaps at all. I love seeing engines where they shouldn't be Especially if it gets everyone's panties in a bunch. Like, say, a 911 with a VR6

[69stibug]

I have built a few hondas and I would think a k series such as the k24 with itbs would be awesome. Ncm faster then any vw motor with the same displacement and no turbo problems


It's not how we fall which defines us but how we rise after falling

[CasuallyWreckless]

I'm not gunna hate on the idea at all but, my 12v mk3 with just chip, and ss kit walked on a k wap first gen civic until he hit vtec in the top of third and pulled by a fender....20mph roller... with that being said they are no doubt a fast and reliable motor it's just w.e. your into... BUT i still do not approve of a cam sliding over at 3k for higher lift.... i cannot grasp how that is good for a motor at all.....buttttt maybe thats y i always see a honda with 100k on it puffing out white smoke cause its rings are shot... there was a guy in the mk3 forum that did a nissan swap i dunno if he ever finished it Do it and bring it to shows.... set a hat out with a pc of paper saying your .02 you make enough to boost it off one show prob gl man def start a build thred id like to see how you go about it

[CasuallyWreckless]

I have built a few hondas and I would think a k series such as the k24 with itbs would be awesome. Ncm faster then any vw motor with the same displacement and no turbo problems


It's not how we fall which defines us but how we rise after falling

negative..... kswaps are weakkkkk big around the local city in my area... (reading pa) and twisted torque ****s weakkk almost all of their cars are swaped with something and my relitivly stock + chip exhaust 12 stays right with their "built" jdm garbage

[B4S]

negative..... kswaps are weakkkkk big around the local city in my area... (reading pa) and twisted torque ****s weakkk almost all of their cars are swaped with something and my relitivly stock + chip exhaust 12 stays right with their "built" jdm garbage

Hey, that's great. Your 2.8 6-cylinder can actually keep up with a 2.0 4-cyl!

[insanedubposse]

Lol I had a similar thought.but I wanted to do a vr6 in a crx.then I saw pics of someone who did it .scraped the idea


My mobile unit

[HagbardCeline]

My Jetta has been sitting in the garage for over a year now due to Digi2 burnout. I am SERIOUSLY considering this swap, since VW parts and knowledge are slightly slim in my area, and the same cannot be said for the H word.
The fab and fitting seems well within my scope of capabilities, but does anyone have any definitive info regarding the wiring particulars involved? i.e what to keep from the stock harness, what is unnecessary, what electrical components are required from the Honda, instrument cluster details, etc.

any info or insight is appreciated!

[B4S]

But VAG BOUGHT those exotic makes...not built them...

Also, I feel obliged to mention that.you're comparing boosted engines to NA, so your nutswinging isn't completely correct. Also, you are comparing limited edition engines to everyday production ones.

Honda isn't jealous of VAG, lol. Dude, just because you looooooooove VW, doesn't mean you have to be blind.

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

WRONG what hes saying is by spending 100 for a 2l motor(did it today) and spending 600 for an AEB motor(did it today so eat me) and you put them together( with these 2 engine you have everything needed to create a 20/20(did it today so eat me). change the turbo to FWD turbo and mk4 exhaust mani and intake mani for less than 200 (lets keep count, thats 900), buy a g60 tranny for 250 shipped (did this a couple months ago so eat me) and misc other factory vw pieces (did this recently) you will have a motor that will put out MORE hp than the baddest stock b-series motor money can buy, AND twice the torque. all for about the same price or less than a b-series motor and i dare you to challenge me to provide proof....ill have you looking at 1xxhp b18c5's and 2xx+hp 1.8t's...not even 20/20's


hondas dont break remember? who ever thinks about replacing honda parts hahaha hondas the unbreakable entity



watch your mouth..VWAG is a huge auto group and make better engines than honda could ever dream of making. you can frind proof when you have enough money to afford one of these various high performance vehicle that VWAG manufactures. Lambo's, RS6's, Bugattis, just to name a few...fiind me a honda motor (ANY HONDA MADE MOTOR) that can put out as much hp on factory equipment as say aaaaaa...... rs6 v8TT..lol..cant find one? better start looking in the F1 section of honda production plants hahahahha..and even there, with a simple tune, exhaust and an intake, the v8TT reigns supreme over honda F1 motors...and lets not forget to again mention, rs6 has all factory equipment lol. VWAG is an engineering marvel that honda can only dream to be like. seriously theres no end to the ways that VW ENGINES, and itself as a company, stand head and shoulders over honda.... **** 100hp/liter, if i want that ill go to BMW! vw is smart and uses these lil tiny turbos to help create power. the end all be all, you do this swap and ill still beat you for less money, and time put into my swap!


couldnt have said it better myself! hahaha. **** it..just put an s85 motor into it..thats a waaaaaaay better engine than a k20 haha.

Relax fella. I suppose you got a new waterpump, timing belt/tensioner, head studs, gaskets, etc., etc. FOR FREE?? You left out a lot of $$$ in hardware bud.. just sayin..

I really don't understand your animosity towards someone swapping another manufacturers engine into a VW. Its the same hot rod formula used FOREVER to go fast.

32 Ford coupe with...

...Ford 9" rear

...4 speed muncie sourced from a GM muscle car

...a supercharger canibalized from a 1950's GMC semi truck

...427 hemi sourced from a Chrysler land yaught

...custom cut and welded driveshaft.

All assembled to create the classic hot rod..



Honda engine into a VW .. I don't see the issue

[K.M.A.S.W.]

Relax fella. I suppose you got a new waterpump, timing belt/tensioner, head studs, gaskets, etc., etc. FOR FREE?? You left out a lot of $$$ in hardware bud.. just sayin..


Honda engine into a VW .. I don't see the issue

first off if your read properly i bought 2 engines...they are complete...why would i need a w/p,timing ****, or anything else? waaait preventative maintenance right? so why dont we incorperate that into his honda build? throw in a vtec solenoid for him cuz they always leak, throw in a vtec controller because its a must have for a modified honda, throw in a dizzy, throw in an IAC because they are always bad, TB, W/P, throw in everything he needs to run coolant through the motor(custom hoses)...shall i continue? the only thing that would be a necessity in my swap would be new headbolts and headgasket(and if you really want to cut corners, ive seen ppl re-use both of these items..and i kno there are tons of ppl on vortex who can attest to that). so a huge $80 that needs to be spent on hardware..whoa what an expense!lol bro your talking to someone who HAS DONE THIS SWAP ALREADY! and is in the midst of doing a 1.8t into a mk...an even easier swap. mounts,brackets,coolant system,d/p,shift mechanism/method, axles,ecu,wiring can all be sourced from some factory vw that is not hard to find or can be sourced from the donor car itself if you got it with a motor in it. and if you added up the prices, it only adds up to 1150...incase you didnt know.. GSR's run from 1300 all the way up to 4k..just for the motor! dude from a money aspect its a NO BRAINER..the math doesnt lie.and if you dont believe me..i literally am days away from completing my second hybrid swap of this nature and can post paypal reciepts,online buying receipts and picture prof that its in the car already lol. i dont care if the O/P wants to put a honda motor into whatever..**** if he wants to ill help him source a 3cyl geo motor and throw in there...to each his own.i dont care what he wants to do with his money. what i do care about is when someone trys to bash vw or act like honda motors are all powerful and vw motors are under the dirt...so i made my point: with some research, less money than it takes to buy and mount a honda swap, some factory vw parts, and some time, you can have a better,faster,more reliable, and more mechanically practical car...but the honda swapped vw will definitely be more unique...

and do me a favor... next time you feel like "just sayin" something.. dont assume that, because i have a low post count, i havent been doing this for a while and dont know what im talking about.

[ps2375]

...426 hemi sourced from a Chrysler land yacht

fixed, 427 was a ford and chevy displacements,,,,,

[dubinsincuwereindiapers]

first off if your read properly i bought 2 engines...they are complete...why would i need a w/p,timing ****, or anything else? waaait preventative maintenance right? so why dont we incorperate that into his honda build? throw in a vtec solenoid for him cuz they always leak, throw in a vtec controller because its a must have for a modified honda, throw in a dizzy, throw in an IAC because they are always bad, TB, W/P, throw in everything he needs to run coolant through the motor(custom hoses)...shall i continue? the only thing that would be a necessity in my swap would be new headbolts and headgasket(and if you really want to cut corners, ive seen ppl re-use both of these items..and i kno there are tons of ppl on vortex who can attest to that). so a huge $80 that needs to be spent on hardware..whoa what an expense!lol bro your talking to someone who HAS DONE THIS SWAP ALREADY! and is in the midst of doing a 1.8t into a mk...an even easier swap. mounts,brackets,coolant system,d/p,shift mechanism/method, axles,ecu,wiring can all be sourced from some factory vw that is not hard to find or can be sourced from the donor car itself if you got it with a motor in it. and if you added up the prices, it only adds up to 1150...incase you didnt know.. GSR's run from 1300 all the way up to 4k..just for the motor! dude from a money aspect its a NO BRAINER..the math doesnt lie.and if you dont believe me..i literally am days away from completing my second hybrid swap of this nature and can post paypal reciepts,online buying receipts and picture prof that its in the car already lol. i dont care if the O/P wants to put a honda motor into whatever..**** if he wants to ill help him source a 3cyl geo motor and throw in there...to each his own.i dont care what he wants to do with his money. what i do care about is when someone trys to bash vw or act like honda motors are all powerful and vw motors are under the dirt...so i made my point: with some research, less money than it takes to buy and mount a honda swap, some factory vw parts, and some time, you can have a better,faster,more reliable, and more mechanically practical car...but the honda swapped vw will definitely be more unique...

and do me a favor... next time you feel like "just sayin" something.. dont assume that, because i have a low post count, i havent been doing this for a while and dont know what im talking about.

And.. Don't assume because my join date on here says 2008; that I don't know what im talking about. FWIW I was horse trading engines in mk2's back in 95-97 before these forums even existed for support.

I NEVER patronized you in my statement; so please give me the same courtesy bro.

All I said is that you left out a lot of $$ in your impromptu budget/rant; assuming that you follow normal assembly protocol for a 1.8t; which entails replacing the timing belt, tensioned, water pump, head gasket, and new factory stretch bolts.

Yes YOU CAN reuse that stuff, but I wouldn't recommend it. In fact I truly dont understand the logic behind doing a 20/20 build without doing a minimum of upgraded connecting rods to sustain a BT setup; as a 20/20 is essentially pointless on a stock Turbo. You will gain maybe 10 HP by the displacement increase on a 1.8t. 20/20's are built to spool a BT with less lag. A stock k03s has zero lag on stock displacement. A better tune can more than make up for increased displacement.

Have you budgeted a good tune into your build? I don't remember; as I've read your thread. Again.. im being civil, and unpatronizing in this dissertation.

Just voicing my questions, and opinions in a public forun

[speeding-g6O]

i personally like the idea, myself. i know i know. i just joined recently, have a low post count, and dont really know much about fast cars and stuff.

car customizing for the sake of DOING it far outweighs what people on some sh!tbag car forum think about the end result. if it aint yours, dont worry about it.

and just cuz its like me to stir it up, i saw this the other day and respect the hell out of it, too.

CRX with a VR6. CR6?? VRX??

[vento86]

I bet that thing hauls ass

[K.M.A.S.W.]

All I said is that you left out a lot of $$ in your impromptu budget/rant; assuming that you follow normal assembly protocol for a 1.8t; which entails replacing the timing belt, tensioned, water pump, head gasket, and new factory stretch bolts.

Yes YOU CAN reuse that stuff, but I wouldn't recommend it. In fact I truly dont understand the logic behind doing a 20/20 build without doing a minimum of upgraded connecting rods to sustain a BT setup; as a 20/20 is essentially pointless on a stock Turbo. You will gain maybe 10 HP by the displacement increase on a 1.8t. 20/20's are built to spool a BT with less lag. A stock k03s has zero lag on stock displacement. A better tune can more than make up for increased displacement.

Have you budgeted a good tune into your build? I don't remember; as I've read your thread. Again.. im being civil, and unpatronizing in this dissertation.

dont need a tune, just an immo defeat really. also again i say, everything you list that i "should" do.."should" also be done by the guy wanting to put a honda motor into a vw. and there is nothing wrong with having a 20/20 with stock turbo and internals..not everybody builds a car to go big turbo or have 9707 hp..i certainly didnt..i just want something good on gas and relatively fun, it just so happens that what i put into my car has more hp and torque than the honda swap and costs less..that remains true