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    Thread: The how to 16v my ABA

    1. Member Svedka's Avatar
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      01-03-2011 02:55 PM #1
      Simply because people can not use the search option or scroll down and read others posts on how to 16v my aba.

      This is the collection notes for the 16v aba.

      Quote Originally Posted by Svedka View Post
      For people who want to do a 2.0 ABA 16vt or NA low compression this is a generic list for adapting this hybrid combo to mk1-mk2-mk3 chassis


      16v ABA OBD1 notes can also be used with OBD2 just use OBD2 sensors and ecu harness.
      This yields low compression NA (to be boosted later on) this combo yields a 8.5-1 compression ratio and is perfect to boost, the obd1 motronic engine wiring harness plugs directly into ce2 fuse blocks

      http://www.a2resource.com/

      To make this a 10.5-1 compression motor add ABF pistons from INA or BBM
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/member.php?236736-INA
      http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php...g.php?pid=1938

      Pistons from a 9a & rods from aba re-brushed = 9.2:1. However if you use a 95.5 mm TDi crank those pistons just about perfectly compensate for the extra 1.35 mm stroke of that crank.

      I used mainly BBM and blackforest for part number references parts can be sourced from other suppliers or can be fabricated yourself.

      http://www.bahnbrenner.com/
      http://store.blackforestindustries.com/index.html

      Parts: (I listed the early ABA obd 2.0 because it came with oil squirt and forged crank)

      complete 2.0 aba from 93-95 jetta gti (oil squirt and forged crank able to run obd1)
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...II-ABA-engines
      check for valve clearance might need relief cuts in pistons
      oil pump, intermediate shaft + gear, dizzy adp, crank gear from a 9a block (BBM has a kit if you can not source these parts BBM part #226101222)
      16v head from gli,gti,passat,scirocco
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...light=flow+16v
      I have heard the 1.8 heads flowed better than the later 9a 16v heads anyone can confirm?
      brake booster line from 16v
      obd1 intake boot and maf and throttle body
      use GTI/jetta intake if you want pass side throttle body use scirocco manifold if you want driver side throttle body (there are a variety of sizes from 40mm to 50mm intakes for DOHC 16v)
      Alt and brackets from mk3 serp setup can be used with PS and AC






      Hybrid parts:
      timing belt aba 16v (BBM part # 226101500)
      fuel rail (BBM part #226100693) FPR (BBM part #226100357) lines and fittings not included
      other fuel rail options http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ck-intake-idea.
      digi fuel cups (BBM part #037133555A)
      abf front water jacket (blackforest part #EBFIABFWN)
      obd1 side water jacket new CTS (blackforest part #226110602)
      xflow head gasket (BBM part # 037103383N)
      head studs kit (ARP 16v kit this is a must if going turbo)
      throttle body adaption from oval to square or adapt the tps (blackforest part #037907385Q)to oval throttle body (obd2 must use adapter) (blackforest part #ESPATBA) have your 16v manifold welded to use the obd1 throttle body
      exhaust spacer or extended header not sure if it will work on 16v scirocco manifolds in a mk1 or not? (blackforest part #EBFIMK18VABA) Techtonics has the tall block header for mk1 16v and mk2/mk3 16v
      radiator lines combo from aba and 16v
      alt kit ABF (blackforest part #EBFIABFABA)
      Turbo oil pan (blackforest part #EBFITROP) prep for turbo
      custom crank sep pully (BBM part #226101606)
      vr6 water pump pulley if no PS/AC (blackforest part #021121031D)
      valve cover breather (BBM part #226101739)

      modify a 16v distributor from a 1 window to a 4 window (you need the aba dist for parts) This is also a good writeup
      http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/guides/dizzywindow.gif
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ndow-hall-to-1
      http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/MKII...Conversion.pdf

      Use the factory aba dist intermediate shaft and oil pump by using any of theses caps (EchlinIgnition - EP480,AC Delco - E372C or E392,Airtex - 5D1115,Auto Tune - PT1604,Beck Arnley - 1746847,Borg Warner - C584,Bosch - 03156, 03181, 1235522215, 1235522217, 1235522305,Commercial Ignition - XD227,Niehoff - WA401,Sierra Marine - RB940,Standard - GB427 ) some grinding of the lower part of the factory intake manifold is needed to clearance the sideways cap.

      Custom chips can be made by UM,TT,BBM and others, best thing to do is get it running on a factory ecu with all sensors then talk to one of them and have a custom chip burnt to meet your needs.
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ead&p=67003689


      You must also adapt the ISV and ITS (blackforest part #280130039) from the obd1
      The intake temp sensor will need to be installed into the 16v manifold and you must use the OBD1 ISV

      There is a pin that lines up the head that needs to be knocked down or the head will need to be slightly modified.

      low compression head gaskets for use with 9a and ABA
      Different head gasket sizes BFI has 3 different thicknesses 0.90,1.50&3.5 all for 95$ plus shipping
      http://store.blackforestindustries.c...he0aba4cy.html
      http://store.blackforestindustries.com/spahe1.html
      http://store.blackforestindustries.c...hespaba4c.html

      Block off plates
      http://www.nothingleavesstock.com/page13/page13.html
      http://www.techtonicstuning.com/main...4413316c146ac3

      Anyone care to contribute any more good info to this post on how to make a NA low compression 16v aba 2.0 (to be boosted in the future)

      EGR valve delete cut pin 10 at ecu (solid white or brown and white count from top left)
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4141188


      Make your tach work
      T/28 from your gauge cluster/tachometer it is a solid green wire

      T28/10 Tachometer U1/06 Green Green Green

      Reference

      http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2cluster.html

      or you can hook - from the coil to (any aftermarket tach)

      G1/12 Ignition Coil Pin 1 (all Mk2, most others '90 only), ECU tach signal (all 91+ except Mk2) Tachometer Red/Black (coil) or Green/Black (ECU)

      http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html

      Cheap 16v cam info DIY
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2508013

      Ditch your power steering without swapping racks in a MK2
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ng-Loop-Kit-42

      Great Info here
      http://www.rabbitgtipage.com/Swaps/engineswaps.html

      Now you can get it running and acquire the turbo parts to finish it
      turbo and manifold, injectors and chip, inter-cooler and pipe, oil lines, SRI, BOV, Waste gate solid mounts new fuel pump custom down pipe ect ect ect...
      The threads

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...Q-Thread-going

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...5#post67163415

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ST!!!!!!:cool:


      If you cant find it use the.

    2. Member MecE2.0's Avatar
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      01-04-2011 12:38 AM #2
      Just wanted to add a note or two for people considering NA:

      1. ABF pistons are available in a few different CR's from the different vendors. If someone is just looking for the pistons they can be had for about $500-525 a set.

      2. If people are looking for a more complete "kit" for a NA setup Eurospec is a good place to start.

      3. The ABF head is more like a nice "mating" of the PL and 9A heads, using the larger PL intake ports and 50mm manifold.

      Be nice if Jeff was still around the contribute as well. He basically typed me a parts guide a few years ago that was ridiculously complete and as close to a true ABF as a 16v ABA can get.

      Nice work Svedka

    3. Member Sr. Karmann's Avatar
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      01-12-2011 11:24 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Svedka View Post

      If you cant find it use the.
      Thanks for the .gif will be VERY useful in the future ......
      Quote Originally Posted by crazynorweegian View Post
      Good luck, might want to get vaccinated for "while-I-am-in-there" syndrome.
      tek-euro.com SpoonFedTuning

      my Corrado's specs on corrado-database / My Corrado Build Thread / My Cabby Build Thread / My Boat Build: 18' Powerplay w/5.7l V8


    4. Member Sr. Karmann's Avatar
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      01-12-2011 11:50 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Svedka View Post
      thank Tdogg i borrowed from him =)
      Quote Originally Posted by crazynorweegian View Post
      Good luck, might want to get vaccinated for "while-I-am-in-there" syndrome.
      tek-euro.com SpoonFedTuning

      my Corrado's specs on corrado-database / My Corrado Build Thread / My Cabby Build Thread / My Boat Build: 18' Powerplay w/5.7l V8

    5. Member mk2dub69's Avatar
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      01-28-2011 11:26 AM #6
      what if you dont want to switch blocks, like running my 1.8l 16v block with aba engine management? is that do able? cause if it works it might be a cheap way to go 16vt.

    6. Member Svedka's Avatar
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      01-28-2011 11:49 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by mk2dub69 View Post
      what if you dont want to switch blocks, like running my 1.8l 16v block with aba engine management? is that do able? cause if it works it might be a cheap way to go 16vt.
      Doesn't work no place for the crank sensor a few people have tried to remote mount it but there is still no good way.

    7. Member Stussy NJ's Avatar
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      02-06-2011 04:43 AM #8
      using the aba pistons gives you a 8.5:1? i have read and been told its a little lower, closer to 7.8, and the piston shape is not ideal for the head? Anyone herd of this?
      Drive a VW they said, it'll be fun they said...

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      04-16-2011 10:42 PM #9
      can you just use the obd1 aba computer for this hybrid? I havent seen very much written up about electrical.

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      04-16-2011 11:11 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Stussy NJ View Post
      using the aba pistons gives you a 8.5:1? i have read and been told its a little lower, closer to 7.8, and the piston shape is not ideal for the head? Anyone herd of this?
      Depends on which ABA pistons and which 16V head, but somewhere in the 8-8.5:1 area.

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      04-16-2011 11:12 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by unknowable View Post
      can you just use the obd1 aba computer for this hybrid? I havent seen very much written up about electrical.
      Yes, ABA ECU and sensors. Guts from an ABA dizzy implanted into the 16V dizzy. I tried using a low profile 90 degree dizzy cap and the ABA dizzy, but there were still clearance issues.

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      04-17-2011 12:43 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by jsneed View Post
      Yes, ABA ECU and sensors. Guts from an ABA dizzy implanted into the 16V dizzy. I tried using a low profile 90 degree dizzy cap and the ABA dizzy, but there were still clearance issues.
      Im totally gonna start collecting parts for this project. I can get a 1.8 and 2.0 16v for $130 each. Might as well pick up a spare 2.0 ABA too and just tear everything down for a nice build. I'm excited Next week those two 16v's will be in my garage.

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      04-17-2011 08:01 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by unknowable View Post
      Im totally gonna start collecting parts for this project. I can get a 1.8 and 2.0 16v for $130 each. Might as well pick up a spare 2.0 ABA too and just tear everything down for a nice build. I'm excited Next week those two 16v's will be in my garage.
      It's a fun and rewarding project. If you go NA, you can really make it look OEM. I used a lot of 1.8T parts on mine, including the engine cover, and it really looked like it could have come that way. And you know, even if they won't admit it, it makes the VR guys green with envy that they can't be that creative with hybrid parts.

    13. 05-13-2011 09:11 PM #14
      So I have been doing some reading and I found out all I need to know at this point. But the one thing I have yet to find is info on using the aba block and 1.8 16v head. the bore is different between the aba and 1.8 16v ( 82.5 to 81mm ) thats if i keep it stock bore and not .5 over

      Isn't there going to be a lip on the inside of the combustion chamber? We don't really want that. wouldn't this cause problems with the piston hitting the cylinder head?

    14. Member MecE2.0's Avatar
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      05-14-2011 12:33 PM #15
      ^ Using the PL head is not an issue. In fact the casting is a little closer to the ABF casting (particularly on the intake side).

    15. Member boost_addict's Avatar
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      05-16-2011 02:02 AM #16
      heres a great write up from VWSPORT for aba 16v turbo on the cheap

      Motor: The theory behind the aba/16v method, in my opinion, is the ease and cost efficiency of using the ABA block as opposed to vw's original 16v block. By using the ABA block, you can use more OEM parts (no stacked head gaskets or custom pistons). However, if you have a perfectly fine 1.8 or 2.0L 16v motor, no need to swap out blocks on purpose. Those can be used equally as well. A separate thread will be made on that method later.
      Fuel injection: As you know, the 1.8l or 2.0l vw motors came equipped w/ a form of cis; either cis-e or Cis motronic. Both of these systems are capable in n/a format. However, it has been my experience that boosting these systems is crude at best. Granted, an additional injector controller can be used to supply fuel. However, it is so much easier to run intercooler piping w/o having a cis-e air box. In addition, by removing the OEM mechanical fuel systems and converting to an electronic fuel system, you open up your tuning abilities. Granted, cis was used on the old Indy turbo cars, as well as Porsche turbo cars. But we don’t have the resources an Indy team does. I'm not saying that cis cannot be done, but for the most part, it is antiquated. The bare minimum that should be used, imo, is the digifant 1 system off a corrado g-60. Chips can be made for these from SNS tuning (http://www.snstuning.com). Achieving over 200 wheel horsepower is very doable, and reliability is far superior to an eic and cis setup.
      As for stand-alone systems, there are numerous aftermarket systems that can be used. This ranges from the cost efficient SDS (www.sdsefi.com) and Holley systems (http://www.holley.com), to the more upscale tec 2, Autronic, or Halteck. What one needs to decide is a) can I install this b) can I tune this c) what options do I need. By answering these questions, you will see what additional parts you may need to purchase, if you need a laptop, and what options would you like to have (such as data logging). SDS has been a staple of 16v turbo cars because it needs no laptop, is very easy to install, and tuning is simple. Basically, your best option for a stand alone system is getting something that will suite your needs, and can be tuned in by yourself, or who ever is tuning it. Don't expect a local tuning shop that jets carbs for a living to master an efi system- so go w/ what the tuner is most familiar w/. Like any programmable EFI, it’s only as good as its programmer!
      Collect Parts!
      Now for the nitty-gritty parts list and how to- Keep in mind, you will need new gaskets for manifolds, etc. Victor Renz sells complete gasket kits.

      #1- grab an ABA code block. To use this block, you will need the following from the 2.0L 16v block- the intermediate shaft and intermediate shaft pulley, the crank timing pulley, the oil pump and drive gear, the oil pump block off plate (the 1.8's don’t fit tightly, I know 1st hand). Since you are using this block w/ a 16v head, an abf code motor timing belt will be needed (hence why you need the wider crank timing pulley and intermediate shaft pulley). You can get the OEM vw belt from TT, or Kent makes a cheaper cost version. Concerning pistons- it has been my experience that I do not touch valves. Some people notch their pistons; I have yet to interfere w/ them.

      #2 a 16v head and intake manifold. What head you use doesn’t matter. Same thing for the intake manifold. Whatever manifold is easier for you to run intercooler piping is best to use. Also, since you need to mount efi injectors go to the dealer and get 4 new injector cups for the g-60 head. They cost like 10 dollars. These will screw into the 16v head.

      #3 A fuel injection system- whatever you decide to use. Keep in mind, you need injectors, a fuel pressure regulator, a fuel filter, miscellaneous fittings and fuel line- all variable upon what system you choose. This will also decide if you use a distributor or coil packs.

      #4 A throttle body. If you’re getting a aftermarket fuel system that needs a tps switch, grab an automatic throttle body from a g-60 or a passat 16v. Secure the throttle cable like you would on a n/a car.

      #5 A turbo. This can range. You can get a nice sized t-3 from a ford/merkur or an 85/86 Nissan 300z. This turbo will pull toward 6k no problem. The Saab turbo works well too, but they spool really quickly- as a result more responsive down low, but suck for top end. If you can, buy a new turbo. There are various options you can go w/ new. It is my purpose to just list some options for budget minded people. If you want to buy a new turbo, and have no clue, than just ask for ideals. Someone should be able to help out.

      #6 a waste gate setup. Here you can vary. For ease of installation an internal waste gate is recommended. However, it is more efficient to run an external waste gate. Also, the waste gate housing off a ford turbo is recommended. It has two bolts that hold the down pipe to it. There it has a “cup” shape to it (think of vw’s “toilet bowl” manifold). This cup allows the down pipe to rock. To rigid a down pipe will cause it to crack. By using this, you effectively do away w/ the need of a flex section.

      #7 a manifold. You can buy a weld ell style one from vortex members, or one through ATP.

      #8 oil lines. Make a trip to the local hardware store, or order from atp. You need to tap your existing oil pan, or buy one done for you.
      Time to bolt it up!

      #9 buy the OEM ABA head gasket. This will work w/ the 16v head. Another member has figured out the CC of everything and came out to 8.1-1 compression ratio using this gasket, aba block/16v head. The exact c/r has been debated, but it is believed to be no more than 8.5-1 and no less than 8-1. You may have to knock 1 dial pin off the ABA block using a punch and hammer. You will see what I mean. Also, if you can afford it, I recommend a set of head studs- such as ARP’s. Order a set for the 16v.

      #10 now that your motor is assembled, add your manifolds. Put the turbo on the manifold while outside the car. It will drop into the car no problem! As for where to get oil supply from- use the side of the head (distributor side).

      #11 Plugs- a set of NGK BCP7ES plugs will do. They are a colder plug than OEM. Also, if you can afford it, grab a nice set of wires Magnacore or similar.

      #12 An intercooler. You can go junkyard way, or buy new. I recommend a starion/conquest intercooler. This intercooler will fit in front of the radiator.

      #13 Intercooler plumbing. This is tricky. Get an assortment of mandrel bends. I buy from http://www.stahlheaders.com As for silicone connectors- rape them off of cars in the junkyard (1st gen dsms, as well as saabs are good candidates), or go to a local diesel truck stop. At the truck stop, you can get 2 ¼ inch silicone hose for $15 a foot. Then you can cut your connectors to fit. It is best to mount your intercooler first, and work from the turbo to the intercooler, then to the throttle body.

      #14 a blow off valve. Budget wise, a bov from a 1st gen dsm is the best way to go. You can find them for under $20 at a junkyard. If you can, get the mounting tube too so u can cut the OEM flange off and weld it onto your new pipe. If you want, you can buy new.

      #15 a boost controller. Ideally, you can make one for fewer than 20 dollars in parts. Or look around for a used brand name one. It is best to set boost as low as you can at first, and then work you way up.
      #16 an Exhaust system. You will have to fabricate your own down pipe the majority of the time. Some companies offer 2-½ cat back systems- none offer this for a1 cars, so you’re making your own. 2 ½ will fit over the rear axle of a a1, three-inch will if you notch the axle beam or of the gas tank is gone and your running a fuel cell. Try to run ATLEAST 2 ½ the entire way back. No backpressure is good.


      Here is all the parts you need. Assembled, you should have a wicked motor. If you go stand-alone keep the boost LOW until you can tune the car on a dyno w/ a wide band o2 sensor. If you go g-60 injection method, SNS will be able to tell you more specifically than I can. When you go to tune on the dyno, shoot for a 12-1 air fuel reading.
      Also recommended are gauges! A Boost gauge, EGT gauge, an A/F gauge, and a OIL pressure gauge. I recommend Greddy’s egt gauge over VDO or auto meter. It seems more accurate. You want to mount the egt probe as close as you can to the number one cylinder. The egt gauge is more useful than the A/f gauge.
      Keep in mind; the added horsepower is going to bring hell upon your transmission. So either stock up on trannys, or bite the bullet and get a limited slip differential. Plus, you will need a better clutch setup. Look at Kennedy engineering for a clutch disk and pressure plate combo.

      Have fun with it-

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      05-16-2011 12:59 PM #17
      i dont mean to split hairs, but one of the last lines in the post above mine, it says to mount the EGT probe as close to cyl #1 as you can.. and i call BS.. you are supposed to mount it in the manifold where it can get readings from all 4 cylinders. right under the inlet of the turbo is where ive been taught to run it forever..

      i would rather have the reading be from all 4 cylinders, rather than just from 1 cyl..

      other than that.. i dont see any problems.

    17. Member MecE2.0's Avatar
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      05-16-2011 01:11 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by boost_addict View Post
      Look at Kennedy engineering for a clutch disk and pressure plate combo.
      KEP makes really nice clutch/pp and adapter kits... for aircooled cars.

    18. Member deryll1's Avatar
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      05-12-2012 12:21 AM #19
      i have 1 correction...as far as i know u have to modify the 16v dizzy to a 1 window not a 4 window....

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      04-01-2013 09:15 AM #20
      Hey guys. Awesome thread. I was just wondering what the compression ratio would be if you use ABA block, ABA connecting rods, 1.9L TDI crank, 9A pistons and 9A 2.0L 16v head. I read that it's going to be 10.2:1

      I haven't read it from anywhere else and I have been doing a lot research and can't find anything. My goal is to get 11.1:1 compression ratio.

      Thanks for the info.
      Live Life

    20. Member leon whalen's Avatar
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      04-01-2013 03:25 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by NoShow20x96 View Post
      Hey guys. Awesome thread. I was just wondering what the compression ratio would be if you use ABA block, ABA connecting rods, 1.9L TDI crank, 9A pistons and 9A 2.0L 16v head. I read that it's going to be 10.2:1

      I haven't read it from anywhere else and I have been doing a lot research and can't find anything. My goal is to get 11.1:1 compression ratio.

      Thanks for the info.
      the parts combo you listed is the exact combo i used. it gives 11:1 comp.
      when i was building mine, i phoned Colin at T.T. and he told me 11:1 comp. with that combo. you have to grind a little off the counter weights to clear the oil squirters so the crank will need to be re-ballanced.
      the long stroke makes for a real torqie motor (you will be pleased)

    21. Member leon whalen's Avatar
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      04-01-2013 03:32 PM #22
      Svedka in your first post you list ABF pistons to achieve 10.5:1 comp. a cheaper alternative is to use the 9a pistons and have the block decked 70 thow. this will give 10.8:1 comp. i have done this, there is no clearance issues and it is pump gas friendly.

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      Boston, MA
      Posts
      3,846
      Vehicles
      1998 Jetta GT, 1998 GTI 2.0, 2012 GLI, 2012 GTI
      04-01-2013 10:52 PM #23

    23. 10-23-2013 12:10 AM #24
      Hi fellow!
      I think it's an extraordinary thread! A very complete guide and anyone can get answers for any questions regarding 16v to turbo conversion.
      Does anyone can show me such a thread for a "How to 16v my PG?" question?
      Thanks!

    24. 10-23-2013 12:12 AM #25
      Hi fellow!
      I think it's an extraordinary thread! A very complete guide and anyone can get answers for any questions regarding 16v to turbo conversion.
      Does anyone can show me such a thread for a "How to 16v my PG?" question?
      Thanks!

    25. 10-23-2013 12:21 AM #26
      Hi fellow!
      I think it's an extraordinary thread! A very complete guide and anyone can get answers for any questions regarding 16v to turbo conversion.
      Does anyone can show me such a thread for a "How to 16v my PG?" question?
      Thanks!

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