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    Thread: My 91 GTI 8 valve to B4 1Z TDI swap

    1. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-09-2011 01:35 AM #1
      Ever since I drove a mk3 Jetta TDI I was amazed at the performance, something I had only experienced with the later Turbo Diesel Mercedes Benz 300 series from 87-90. I knew right away that it could be even more impressive if the heart of the beast was simply transplanted into a lighter skin...Problem was, the resale value of TDI's in any shape or form were understandably high..So I knew I might as well wait. In November I found a 96 B4 Passat TDI on craigslist for $2,000 dollars..and it only had 150K miles! I went and checked it out, it was rough around the edges but it ran beautifully so I talked the salesman down 500 bucks and drove it home, boosting all the way. I had picked up a 91 GTI 8valve with 130K on the clock for 500 bucks back in August that I originally intended on using as a parts car to complete my 86 Jetta Coupe...but then I realized how mint the GTI was, not to mention the fact that my first dub was a white mk3 golf, and the white mk2 started growing on me..its so clean. As soon as I figure out how to load up photos of the project I will, but unfortunately I am slightly e-tarded, not too net-savy
      Last edited by FaithInMkIII2.0; 02-20-2011 at 10:06 AM. Reason: my photos didnt upload
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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      01-09-2011 03:05 PM #2
      when you finish the car, if it comes up stolen, i DID NOT take it..

      a mk2 TDI GTD is probably the finest car VW never built..

    3. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 12:16 AM #3
      sign up for a free shutterfly.com account.

    4. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 10:17 PM #4
      Well now I have a flickr account, which my photographer girlfriend suggested, who I should say gets most of the credit for the pictures..If I was with her back when I did my 86 Jetta coupe aba swap I would have documented that too. By the way, the pictures are way behind my work progress, mainly due to the fact that I am more used to actually just working on my stuff all the time rather than sharing the progress online...This is new to me..but without the beauty of the internet and technical forums I would have never had this conversion going along so smoothly. More so I should give my boss Scott, owner of Sports Imports of Cape Cod where I work credit for letting me use the nicely heated shop to do it all in!
      [IMG]12.30.10 037[/IMG]
      [IMG]12.30.10 047[/IMG]
      [IMG]IMG_0001
      Last edited by FaithInMkIII2.0; 01-10-2011 at 10:39 PM.
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    5. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 10:47 PM #5
      [IMG]12.30.10 049[/IMG]
      [IMG]12.30.10 053[/IMG]
      good riddance PF gasser
      [IMG]12.30.10 055[/IMG]
      Got the engine out of the Passat donor way faster than the much rustier GTI..was it due to the fact that the passat was a wolfsburg WVW..and the GTI is a 3VW...?
      [IMG]IMG_0007[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    6. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 10:53 PM #6
      Here are a couple of pictures showing how similar the A2 and B4 front engine supports are..I already pressed out the inserts off the A2 support and will install them into the B4 TDI front support after I clean and paint the parts
      [IMG]L-R A2 front mt support, B4 tdi front support, A2radiator support,A2 headligt support[/IMG]
      [IMG]the A2 and B4 front mounts are nearly identical[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    7. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 10:56 PM #7
      After doing my 86 Jetta Coupe OBD1 ABA swap, I was pleased to see how much simpler the B4 TDI harness is...Gotta love VW CE2!

      [IMG]1Z wiring harness! way easier to deal with than a mk3[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    8. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 12:16 AM #8
      G60ing, recognize the moniker from the tdiclub forum..
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    9. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 12:30 PM #9
      I now have the B4 pedal cluster installed. First I modified the firewall by welding a thin piece of sheetmetal over the two small holes where the clutch master cylinder goes through it. I neglected to take pictures of the process, but its pretty self explanatory. I didn't want to just make the large clutch master hole with out dealing with pre existing ones because I would have ended up with a jagged hole that would be hard to seal from the engine bay. [IMG]IMG_0092[/IMG]
      here is the pedal cluster from the inside[IMG]IMG_0094[/IMG]
      and a closer shot of the clutch master hole. I also welded an 8mm rear brake caliper bolt to the firewall for the pedal support bracket because there wasn't one there and I wanted it to be mounted rigidly..it is the stud seen at the top of the photo[IMG]IMG_0095[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    10. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 12:36 PM #10
      A weird thing about my particular B4 pedal cluster is this nut/bolt thing tack welded to the clutch pedal...it didn't affect clutch pedal operation of the donor car at all, and it seems like its purpose is to prevent the pedal from traveling past the over center..maybe to assist in clutch bleeding? I always use a bungee cord to assist the return of the clutch pedal when I bleed hydraulic clutches, but this is a good idea if it is the purpose.[IMG]IMG_0096[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    11. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 12:41 PM #11
      One thing I am not totally sure about is the shifter box install..I realize there is a hole to be drilled for mounting it to the tunnel but the thread I read about B4 passat tdi-mk2 compatibility said that the cable shifter box should bolt right in. The problem is that the cable shift box is more narrow than the linkage shift box..do I just have to make a support tab or plate to make it wide enough?[IMG]IMG_0098[/IMG]
      [IMG]L-R linkage-shift A2 shifter box, B4 tdi shifter box[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    12. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      01-13-2011 07:51 AM #12
      find out what all of the Vr6 swap people do.

    13. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-13-2011 12:50 PM #13
      already figured it out..crawled under there after I took out the subframe and got it up on stands...the shift box fits right in just gotta drill three new holes..I am fixing a lot of surface rusty areas before I bolt anything in so it is taking longer than a simple R&R..I will upload photos up the progress later on after work
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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      01-13-2011 01:06 PM #14
      nice swap, where are you putting your IC? I put the stock MK3 in side mounted in my 88GTI

    15. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-13-2011 09:12 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by 8gti16valve6 View Post
      nice swap, where are you putting your IC? I put the stock MK3 in side mounted in my 88GTI
      good question..I have been trying to fig out the best spot to mount an IC..I may have a set of biturbo S4 IC's to try out..a twin setup would be really cool..The IC that was on my donor Passat is a SAAB intercooler and I would have used it but the end tank is damaged from some dumb*ss who mounted it with a hose clamp..the clamp wore through the plastic from vibration and heat, and I don't wanna mess with trying to seal it with glue. I was also thinking about a cheapo FMIC...
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    16. Member CIH Opel's Avatar
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      01-14-2011 08:25 PM #16
      Swap is coming along nicely.


    17. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-22-2011 10:19 PM #17
      so after much cleaning and a little rust repair I finally have two coats of Alpine white on my GTI's engine bay..Takes a lot of work to redo the half-assed job done by the Puebla crew..found some rust that I'm glad to have taken care of now instead of crying later..[IMG]alpine white so bright[/IMG]
      [IMG]fresh paint! Two coats[/IMG]
      cleaned up and repainted my subframes as well
      [IMG]freshened up subframes[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    18. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-22-2011 10:22 PM #18
      broke a stud taking the down pipe off, so I had to drill it out. I am fabricating a downpipe that will hopefully flow better than stock, as well as eliminate the 5th injector bung. What a nice little turbo, bearings feel good too![IMG]littlebitty Garret 15 turbo[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    19. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-22-2011 10:25 PM #19
      after much heavy brushing I can finally see aluminum [IMG]scrubbed for hours[/IMG]
      [IMG]IMG_0145[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    20. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-31-2011 12:12 AM #20
      getting things back together..bored a 2" hole by the HVAC intake for the ECU plug to pass through, fits really nice...adapted the passat headlight harness to fit the GTI, added an extra ground lead to chassis ground the headlight wiring, hopefully they will be brighter than the average A2...Got the subframe in tonight with a set of Audi TT bushings and polyurethane pivots pressed into A3 control arms..using a ZF A3 rack and the Passat B4 axles and spindles/calipers..the 8 valve base brakes are way too puny..going to use the rear calipers and stubs off the Passat as well before I ship it to the junk yard but stripping this stuff in the snow sucks, at least today was close to 40, its been around 25 for a while...[IMG]IMG_0154[/IMG]
      [IMG]IMG_0159[/IMG]
      [IMG]IMG_0162[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    21. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      01-31-2011 12:17 AM #21
      I installed the A3 subframe on my A2 tonight and the two rear holes for the 8mm bolts are like an 1" away from the holes in the body? From what I have read the two were interchangeable, and it is bolted in by the two large 12mm bolts, but I am wondering what others have done I'm thinking they aren't that important
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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      01-31-2011 12:57 PM #22
      The mk2 didn't utilize the rear holes in the back. On my corrado when I installed the mk3 k-frame I had to drill the holes and then I used a feder washers to take up the gap. An SLC subframe doesn't require the holes but those aren't so easy to grab.

    23. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      02-03-2011 01:03 PM #23
      Getting it together, takes a lot of time to prep and paint so much[IMG]IMG_0176[/IMG]
      [IMG]IMG_0177[/IMG]
      My Passat donor still had the "5th injector" installed, which I am going to definitely remove, I would love to have the return line without the T, maybe something someone may have an extra they'd be willing to part with?[IMG]IMG_0179[/IMG]
      Doing a timing belt before I install the engine, even though it looks fairly new (I can still see the part number on the belt, and the tensioner looks new too), so I needed a cam sprocket counter holding tool since I didn't have one. I have loosened them with a 3/8" impact gun before but I feel more comfortable doing a TDI with the correct tool [IMG]IMG_0187[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    24. Member CIH Opel's Avatar
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      02-03-2011 08:01 PM #24
      Looking good! That Passat heat shield is a real nice touch. I love how nice and clean everything is, and that white back drop looks great! Any ideas on a paint scheme for the engine? Looks like the engine and trans will be soon to follow.

      What is the use for the 5fth injector? Was it used for cold starts? Be easy on me, I only know how gasoline.

    25. Member G60ING's Avatar
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      02-03-2011 09:09 PM #25
      http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...passat-tdi.htm

      The 1996 Passat was the first year for the VW TDI in North America and have a problem with the 5th fuel injector in the exhaust for emissions.

      Volkswagen had diesel powered cars for many years but not the turbo, intercooled, electronically controlled injection pump that distinguishes the TDI from earlier VW diesels, the IDI. There were also other major differences in the engine and engine management.

      The 1996 Passat also had a unique to '96 5th fuel injector. See 1000q: mk3 jetta and passat differences to see a list of differences, interchangeable parts, model year differences, etc. The fifth fuel injector injects diesel fuel into the exhaust downstream of the turbo and upstream of the catalytic converter. The fuel was supposed to clean the emissions by heating up the catalytic converter but it didn't work very well and often made the car smoke more. It's recommended to remove or disable the 5th fuel injector to reduce smoke (emissions) and wasted fuel.

      The 1996 had a technical service bulletin (not a recall) that replaces the fuel injectors and changes the ECU (ECM, car computer) and 5th injector. Since it was not a recall, it may not have been done to all 96 VW Passat TDI. You don't need to have these changes done to plug the 5th injector, you can just plug it. Also check the ecu hose since this problem always shows up sooner or later. See 1000q: ECU hose for more details.

    26. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      02-03-2011 09:40 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by G60ING View Post
      http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...passat-tdi.htm

      The 1996 Passat was the first year for the VW TDI in North America and have a problem with the 5th fuel injector in the exhaust for emissions.

      Volkswagen had diesel powered cars for many years but not the turbo, intercooled, electronically controlled injection pump that distinguishes the TDI from earlier VW diesels, the IDI. There were also other major differences in the engine and engine management.

      The 1996 Passat also had a unique to '96 5th fuel injector. See 1000q: mk3 jetta and passat differences to see a list of differences, interchangeable parts, model year differences, etc. The fifth fuel injector injects diesel fuel into the exhaust downstream of the turbo and upstream of the catalytic converter. The fuel was supposed to clean the emissions by heating up the catalytic converter but it didn't work very well and often made the car smoke more. It's recommended to remove or disable the 5th fuel injector to reduce smoke (emissions) and wasted fuel.

      The 1996 had a technical service bulletin (not a recall) that replaces the fuel injectors and changes the ECU (ECM, car computer) and 5th injector. Since it was not a recall, it may not have been done to all 96 VW Passat TDI. You don't need to have these changes done to plug the 5th injector, you can just plug it. Also check the ecu hose since this problem always shows up sooner or later. See 1000q: ECU hose for more details.
      I have the metal case GQ ecu but still had the 5th injector...kind of odd..wonder if I had the injectors done too...
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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      02-03-2011 10:02 PM #27
      The easiest way to eliminate the 5th injector is to disable it with the programming. The rest is just for show.

    28. Member CIH Opel's Avatar
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      02-04-2011 08:20 PM #28
      G60, that was some really good info, thanks for clearing up the 5 injector deal.

      Chris, I can't wait to see this project finished

    29. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      02-09-2011 10:53 AM #29
      After getting the brake lines squared away I installed the engine.[IMG]IMG_0411[/IMG]
      [IMG]IMG_0407[/IMG] mimicked the passat brake line shape at the master cylinder end
      [IMG]IMG_0405[/IMG]
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    30. Member nothingman's Avatar
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      02-09-2011 06:47 PM #30
      Nice job so far. I'm following this thread. I'm doing my own "simple" chassis to chassis tdi swap. I get the motor in this weekend.
      Quote Originally Posted by MKIII's KING View Post
      lol @ special tools. vortex is full of that.

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      02-09-2011 07:01 PM #31
      Wow! That GTI was in good shape. Are you keeping the ECU or going to an M-TDI injection pump.

      When it's complete, you'll need to make a trip to Ho5G and let Rocketchip work his magic on it.

      Keep an eye on this section of TDIClub for a GTG. They usually have one in May or June. http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=33

    32. Member FaithInMkIII2.0's Avatar
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      02-09-2011 07:47 PM #32
      [IMG]IMG_0409[/IMG]
      [IMG]IMG_0415[/IMG]
      found this schematic after a quick google search for tdi vacuum hose sources, thought it had all the part numbers at first glance, including the red and blue braided hoses, but upon closer inspection it seems that VW wants you to change them to all black hoses, guess if I want to retain the color code I am using silicone hoses..
      [IMG]18764AHUvacuumdiagram[/IMG]
      Last edited by FaithInMkIII2.0; 02-09-2011 at 07:52 PM.
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
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    33. Member liloldbie's Avatar
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      02-10-2011 09:25 AM #33
      LOVE this swap! I also have a 1z TDI motor that I DD at 243k on the clock. I just love my passat.

      I get that awful smoking on startup until the car is warmed up. Thinking about plugging the 5th injector but how do you remove it from the programming? I have a ross tech HEX-CAN cable so it won't be an issue, just would like to know! Thanks and good luck with your project! Watching!

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      '91 GTI TDI powered, '97 B4GLXTDI, Vitus 979, Schwinn Traveler Fixie
      02-10-2011 05:22 PM #34
      Here is what I found about the 5th injector delete a while back..when I first got my passat donor (the only tdi I hadn't dealt with yet) I was puzzled as to what it was, and what its purpose was, so began to research it
      here is the link from myturbodiesel.com
      http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a...passat-tdi.htm
      For VW diesel tuning, parts, and service check out SCHNELL SNAIL TDI PERFORMANCE yes, we do gassers too!
      TDtuning software dealer Southbend clutch dealer

    35. Member
      Join Date
      Apr 15th, 2004
      Location
      Hatfield, MA
      Posts
      2,824
      Vehicles
      2010 Golf TDI 6M 2Dr
      02-10-2011 05:25 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by liloldbie View Post
      LOVE this swap! I also have a 1z TDI motor that I DD at 243k on the clock. I just love my passat.

      I get that awful smoking on startup until the car is warmed up. Thinking about plugging the 5th injector but how do you remove it from the programming? I have a ross tech HEX-CAN cable so it won't be an issue, just would like to know! Thanks and good luck with your project! Watching!
      You'll probably need a chiptune to "delete" the 5th injector from the ECU. Check on TDIClub. Someone there will know for sure.

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