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    Thread: Dealer charging to update my car's software? WTF

    1. Member fastjetta4's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 11:48 PM #1
      I'm not an expert on this, but it just seems absurd to me.

      Over the past month my mom's Jeep Grand Cherokee has been experiencing an intermittent CEL. The second time it came on, I went down to Auto Zone to get it checked out and it showed it was throwing a p0155 code, which is for one of the oxygen sensors. After talking with the guy at Auto Zone and doing a little research, I've found that there is a service bulletin that covers this. According to the service bulletin, this problem is common on her MY (2004) and she just needs new software put on her engine computer.

      So this is my beef, which I may or may not be right about, but since this is TCL, of course I'm going to ask for your opinions.

      The dealer wants to charge me one hour of labor to hook their computer up and put this new software on her car, which seems absurd to me. First off, I'm sure the entire procedure takes 15 minutes or less, and second, I would think Jeep would be at fault (since it's their faulty software) and should update it for free!

      So TCL, am I in the right to be upset with the dealer? Are they trying to screw me over? Maybe someone knows of a cool Jeep dealer in the central NJ area that wouldn't mind helping me out?

      Oh, and here is a text copy of what the service bulletin reads:

      Bulletin Number: 14 Bulletin Date: 20040401 Category: 103100 POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
      Summary: THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) MAY HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED WITH SOFTWARE THAT CAN CAUSE THE ON-BOARD DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM TO MALFUNCTION. EMISSION RECALL NO. D14. *TT

      And of course, rule #1 (not hers but what it looks like):

    2. 01-10-2011 11:51 PM #2
      Is the software update a part of a recall? Shops don't barge by minutes, they charge by work hour. If it's not a part of a recall then you may just have to pay it.

    3. Social Media Iron Man(and Administrator) jebglx's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 11:53 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by MFactor View Post
      Is the software update a part of a recall? Shops don't barge by minutes, they charge by work hour. If it's not a part of a recall then you may just have to pay it.
      yup or go to another dealer

    4. Member compy222's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 11:57 PM #4
      check around at a few different dealers and say what they all see. i'd also call ford and see what they can do for you.
      Last edited by compy222; 01-11-2011 at 12:05 AM.
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    5. Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 11:57 PM #5
      Ummmm, I thought the Oxygen sensors just needed replacing because the original ones were garbage? At least in my experience if you just replace the oxy sensors that code doesn't come back.

    6. Member Burnitwithfire's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 11:57 PM #6
      It's only free when it's a recall or done under warranty.
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    7. Member lowredcabrio's Avatar
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      01-10-2011 11:58 PM #7
      Bummer. I'd ask nicely and hope for the best. Good luck.
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    8. Member fastjetta4's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 12:02 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by MFactor View Post
      Is the software update a part of a recall? Shops don't barge by minutes, they charge by work hour. If it's not a part of a recall then you may just have to pay it.
      I'm a little confused about that myself. Technically, it's a service bulletin, but it says that it is covered under recall D.14, yet when they looked up the VIN number at the dealership there were no open recalls on her car, so they wouldn't do anything...

    9. Member VeeDubbinJetta91's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 12:02 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by compy222 View Post
      check around at a few different dealers and see what they all see. i'd also call ford and see what they can do for you.
      How could Ford help him A TSB(Technical Service Bulletin) isnt a recall and therefore isnt free if you are out of warranty, Shops/Techs dont make money by updating software for free therefore they will charge you for it, even though its a known concern chances are you will still have to pay, because there is still diagnosis involved plus the diagnostic computers/software wasnt free...

    10. 01-11-2011 12:12 AM #10
      Federal Emissions Warranty
      The Federal Emissions Warranty guidelines are based on federal regulations and apply to vehicles in all 50 states. Vehicles are covered by two types of emissions control system warranty, "Emission Defect Warranty" and "Emissions Performance Warranty".

      The Emissions Performance Warranty is usually for 3 years/50,000 miles and depends on the state where you live. The Defect Warranty is generally consistent with the manufacturer's bumper-to-bumper warranty with certain parts (catalytic converter and electronic emissions controls (PCM) for up to 8 years/80,000 miles. Please refer to your owner's manual for specific information on your emissions warranty
      I don't know if this is true or not, but I'd try another dealer or file a complaint with the BAR.

      I think a reflash should be covered provided your under 80k

      http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARR...complaint.html

    11. 01-11-2011 12:17 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by VeeDubbinJetta91 View Post
      How could Ford help him
      Me thinks compy had a brain fart.
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      I was more annoyed with the implication of being a Browns fan.

    12. 01-11-2011 12:19 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by fastjetta4 View Post
      I'm not an expert on this, but it just seems absurd to me.

      Over the past month my mom's Jeep Grand Cherokee has been experiencing an intermittent CEL. The second time it came on, I went down to Auto Zone to get it checked out and it showed it was throwing a p0155 code, which is for one of the oxygen sensors. After talking with the guy at Auto Zone and doing a little research, I've found that there is a service bulletin that covers this. According to the service bulletin, this problem is common on her MY (2004) and she just needs new software put on her engine computer.

      So this is my beef, which I may or may not be right about, but since this is TCL, of course I'm going to ask for your opinions.

      The dealer wants to charge me one hour of labor to hook their computer up and put this new software on her car, which seems absurd to me. First off, I'm sure the entire procedure takes 15 minutes or less, and second, I would think Jeep would be at fault (since it's their faulty software) and should update it for free!

      So TCL, am I in the right to be upset with the dealer? Are they trying to screw me over? Maybe someone knows of a cool Jeep dealer in the central NJ area that wouldn't mind helping me out?
      How did you like the service at Auto Zone?

    13. Junior Member vwsport173's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 08:25 AM #13
      Technical service bulletins aren't the same as recalls and need to be paid out of pocket is the car is out of warranty.

      Updating the software on a module can take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours in some cars like some BMW's when the entire car needs to be upgraded at the same time. An hour of labor for programming is about right when it comes to how much most shops charge.

      I would call up a few other dealerships and see what they can do and to double check that its not covered as a recall. VW had a similar service bulletin for some mkiv's that required an update to the software that controlled the 02 sensors. They treated the upgrade as a recall for cars still under the Federal Design and Defect Emissions Waranty of 8yrs or 80k miles.

      -Rui

    14. Member classicjetta's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 09:02 AM #14
      OP I would call 1-877-IAM-JEEP and politely explain your situation. They may be able to work something out with your local dealer.

    15. Member rpmk4's Avatar
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      01-11-2011 09:07 AM #15
      no recall no free

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      01-11-2011 09:09 AM #16
      While not a recall, since the TSB covers emissions..... you might be able to sneak it into the emissions warranty, if it is still in tact (due to mileage and age of the car)
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    17. Member fastjetta4's Avatar
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      01-12-2011 11:40 PM #17
      I figure I have a few options if this emissions warranty doesn't work out:

      1) Replace the O2 sensor (~$30) and see if that clears up the code since the code is in fact for the O2 sensor
      2) Pay the hour of labor at the dealer for this new software (~$100)
      3) Say screw it and don't do anything until the car needs to be inspected again in 18 months. The car drives fine

      I'm thinking about trying 1 since it's relatively inexpensive, then doing 3 until it needs to be inspected if 1 doesn't work

    18. Member fastjetta4's Avatar
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      01-12-2011 11:46 PM #18
      Also, totally found it on the EPA's website as recalled. Jeep will definitely be hearing from me.

      http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/recall/420b05022.pdf

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