DarkSideGTI Big Turbo Build Round 2

[DarkSideGTI]

I figured I should start another build thread since I am rebuilding my car.

A few months ago I started noticing a bit of smoke coming out of my car under boost. I figured it was a bit of oil burning off from a leaky VC gasket that I had just replaced. I went to the track and my car felt like it was breaking up a bit under full boost I figured it was plugs so I short shifted my way to a 12.9. I replaced my plugs and went to the track again, the car did a bit better but was still breaking up and I short shifted my way to a 12.5. Well after that day I decided to investigate what was causing the smoke. Turns out cyl 5 had a broken piston.



The cylinder walls looked fine, so I de-glazed them with a ball hone and replaced the piston using one I got from Gabe at Bluewater. I also replaced the rings and rod bolts. The car ran fine for a few days, but I never got into boost. About 5 days later I started hearing a bit of noise from the car and it sounded like rod knock. I was a bit burned out on working on the car so I parked it and let it sit for a couple months.

A couple weeks ago I finally got a bug up my @ss to work on the car again so I pulled the motor and tore it apart. I found that the rod bearings on cylinder 5 were completely gone. I must have installed the rod cap 180* out and it caused the bearings to wear out. Hoping to save the crank I took it to a local machine shop where it is currently being ground to accept .25mm oversized rod bearings.

Here is the scoring on the #5 rod journal.


I also took the block down to the machine shop to receive a .5mm overbore, fresh hone, and a good hot tanking. The new block will be fitted with some JE 84.5mm pistons and the brand new Integrated Engineering Tuscan rods for the VR6. I believe there are only two of us with these new connecting rods, but the 1.8T versions have been pushed to ~800 whp. imagine the potential with two extra rods.







I figured while the motor was out I would get rid of some stuff in the engine bay and do a wire tuck as well. I am not sure how crazy I am going to get with shaving stuff, but I would like to redo all the seam sealer and re-spray the bay as well.

Labeled wires.


Motor out.


Empty bay.


Cleaned up passenger side.( the easy one).


Drivers side.


getting there.


organized confusion.


the other plans I have are:

United Motorsports Big Turbo software
Powdercoat all charge pipes, inlet, valve cover, etc.
New -6 braided fuel line
-10 braided catch can valve cover vent
deleted aux radiator
deleted coolant reservoir
relocate PS reservoir
powdercoat VF mounts
powdercoat fuel rail
new coolant hoses ran cleaner
low temp t-stat
low temp fan switch
shaved front bumper
fix cracked rear bumper
new wheels
coat brake calipers

I'm sure I'll end up doing more as well. Hope to have everything done before Wuste 2011 in June.

[MPSquared]

Wow! Looks amazing! Im excited to see times when this thing is done. What are you wire tuck plans?

[huichox4]

nice

[JamesO]

Tuscan connecting rods! When did these come out?

I have the "regular" connecting rods and really liked their quality and engineering. They came balanced, but I sent the whole rotating assembly out to be balanced.

[DarkSideGTI]

Wow! Looks amazing! Im excited to see times when this thing is done. What are you wire tuck plans?

Going to route all the wires down through the frame rails. Actually going to be able to delete a lot of stuff.

Tuscan connecting rods! When did these come out?

They aren't officially out yet.

[DarkSideGTI]

Just ordered a catch can setup with -10AN fittings and lines. Damn that was not cheap.

[Gear_444]

I'm sorry you are having so many issues with that motor. You have put a lot of time and money into this car so far. It sounds like you are on track to really make it bulletproof once and for all. I am pretty excited to see the end product. I still need to get around to doing my turbo build... but The more and more I dig into it, I hear about weird issues like this. So I keep wanting to do it right, and as I go down that path... the price just keeps going higher and higher with it... so I never pull the trigger.

Have you thought about running the new TT CAMs with this new motor? I think they are 275s... or 277s... I don't recall.

Good luck Nick. If anybody can do it, it's you.

[DarkSideGTI]

Bad news from the machine shop tonight. The crank needs to be ground more than .010" that means in order to use those bearings I would need to weld the crank and then grind it. That kinda sketches me out. Anyone know of a fairly cheap crank for sale?

[xbluewaterx]

I have 2 cranks out right now that both are being welded and then ground down to accept .25mm undersized bearings. It should be fine if the machine shop is used to that kind of thing. I have had it done multiple times without issue.

[JamesO]

I have 2 cranks out right now that both are being welded and then ground down to accept .25mm undersized bearings. It should be fine if the machine shop is used to that kind of thing. I have had it done multiple times without issue.

I was faced with a similar issue when I went to rebuild my .:R. But I wasn't so sure about welding and grinding on the crank. I realize that it is an acceptable repair, but I don't like the idea of a forged crank with welds on it. Maybe that's just me, but I can be overly meticulous.
When you say you have utilized this repair, what was the application? Was it just a stock rebuild or repair, or was it something that went into a higher HP VW? Would you run it in your .:R, or are we talking about yours?

[DarkSideGTI]

People weld/grind forged cranks all the time. If I could find a crank cheap enough I would try to avoid it though.

[Basil Fawlty]

People weld/grind forged cranks all the time. If I could find a crank cheap enough I would try to avoid it though.

Subscribed ...why not balance and blueprint the crank it while you're at it?

[JamesO]

Subscribed ...why not balance and blueprint the crank it while you're at it?

I think your head is in the right place but your using terminology that doesn't really make sense. When you weld onto the crank and then grind the excess off you HAVE to balance it. That is actually how they decide where to grind the excess material off. They throw it on a balancer and strategically grind off certain areas to get the crank in balance. So it will already be balanced if they repair it.

Secondly, my pet peeve is when people mis use the word "blueprint." All that means is you have a plan for the engine and you follow it. Which actually means that a stock motor is blueprinted! VW had a "blueprint" and they followed it when they manufactured the engine. So when you are rebuilding your engine I would hope that you have some sort of plan or "blueprint" in mind for the application and requirements BEFORE you start slapping parts on. If you do, then your engine is already blueprinted. But if you don't, well then your just wasting your money b/c it won't last.

In a nutshell...
If it's going to be a Turbo application for racing then you will use a set of specifications for a turbo engine. If your running a Nitrous only car then you will go with different set of specs. If your going for a monster NA engine then, you guessed it, you go with a different set of specs.

I'm not trying to bash on ANYBODY, just want to merely educate others to some common misconceptions.

Basil Fawlty, I do agree with you that he should blueprint the engine. Also, send your WHOLE rotating assembly to be balanced together for a proper and quality build. This means your crank, pistons, connecting rods, flywheel.

[DarkSideGTI]

Blueprinting is taking the entire motor apart and measuring everything and verifying all of your clearances/specs. This will happen, once I get the block back I am measuring everything before assembly.

[JamesO]

Blueprinting is taking the entire motor apart and measuring everything and verifying all of your clearances/specs. This will happen, once I get the block back I am measuring everything before assembly.

You have part of that right. It's all about adjusting those measurements to meat certain application requirements.

For example, if your running forced induction you will adjust your ring end gap to one spec. Then if your running NA you will adjust your end gaps to another spec.

I used the specs provided by JE for a Turbo application because I have JE Pistons. Some people may have different numbers but there is no question that you must vary tolerances based of application.
And THAT is what it means to Blueprint an engine!

[eastcoaststeeze]

im excited to see this finished.. again haha

[newcreation]

You have part of that right. It's all about adjusting those measurements to meat certain application requirements.

For example, if your running forced induction you will adjust your ring end gap to one spec. Then if your running NA you will adjust your end gaps to another spec.

I used the specs provided by JE for a Turbo application because I have JE Pistons. Some people may have different numbers but there is no question that you must vary tolerances based of application.
And THAT is what it means to Blueprint an engine!

James you are correct with your info. Hopefully others read and learn a few things from your info posted may not be alot but a short general idea for them

[DarkSideGTI]

You have part of that right. It's all about adjusting those measurements to meat certain application requirements.

For example, if your running forced induction you will adjust your ring end gap to one spec. Then if your running NA you will adjust your end gaps to another spec.

I used the specs provided by JE for a Turbo application because I have JE Pistons. Some people may have different numbers but there is no question that you must vary tolerances based of application.
And THAT is what it means to Blueprint an engine!

Right, when I said measuring clearances that includes adjusting ring gaps. I will be using a bore gauge, micrometer, etc to make sure the main/rod journals have the appropriate clearances, adjusting ring gaps, clocking the rings, etc.

Today I sorted through more of the wiring and re-routed some stuff. I need to go get a hole saw and a rubber grommet so I can route some wires down through the bottom of the rain tray.

[JamesO]

It sounds like you have the right idea! :: The rebuild process is an exciting time, I remember it well. I have yet to make a build thread, but I took a TON of pictures! Hopefully you will grace us with the same. 

[euro.lo]

Wow! Another quality build thread coming out. Looking forward to seeing this thing running again.

[DarkSideGTI]

** Boring Update **

After talking with Pete @ IE a bit, he is recommending that I use a new crank instead of welding this one. I have a WTB thread but if I cannot find an R32 crank with a reasonable price I will get a 2.8l crank. This will shorten the stroke and I will need to run 2.8 pistons, but I would get 85mm pistons. This would give me a 3.1l instead of a 3.2l, which I am not concerned with at all. I would rather get the 3.2l crank, but they are often a lot of money and spending the extra ~200 or so on custom pistons would be cheaper.

Anyway, here are some pics of my recent order from Summit.

I am deleting the ugly VW coolant bottle and using this inline filler neck. I will route the overflow to the Moroso recovery tank. I found an anodized black billet radiator cap that looks better than the ugly silver ones.



I also am revamping the fuel lines in the bay. And adding a catch can. I got some 5/16" to 1/4" NPT push to connect fittings for the hard lines. The PTC fittings are converted to -6 AN fittings and I am running black braided line with Mr. Gasket Shadow Series fittings. The R32 fuel rail will have -6 bungs welded on to finish the connection. I got a -10 bung as well that will be welded onto the valve cover breather port with some black braided line to the catch can as well. It should all look pretty slick once the IC pipes and VC are powdercoated to match the Mr. gasket fittings.



This is the catch can I ordered that is not here yet.


The DEI titanium exhaust wrap is a pretty close color to the titanium Mr. Gasket fittings.

I also got a Fusor bumper repair kit and some spare plastic and I will be shaving the bumper lights and grille notch.

The color of those Mr. Gasket fittings looks off in my pics. This is a better representation of the colors. Everything will be powdercoated to match.

[JamesO]

I really like where your headed with this last update! Hardly a boring one IMO, but I find joy in the little things.

I am in the midst of my catch can integration right now. Trying to find a place to put the catch can has been the hardest part so far. I'm being somewhat picky as where it goes and how it looks in relation to OEM.

Im anxious to see how your coolant setup looks once you integrate it. Are you painting the coolant tank?

Also, where are you going to locate your catch can? Also, it looks like your venting your crankcase to atmosphere. Any particular reason why your going with this style as opposed to recirculating?

[BOUDAH]

Wow man. I cant say i see alot of detailed Motor builds. i really like the way this is paning out.

[Andy Redz]

Wow man. I cant say i see alot of detailed Motor builds. i really like the way this is paning out.

Totally agree this threads getting interesting the devils in the detail.

[DarkSideGTI]

I really like where your headed with this last update! Hardly a boring one IMO, but I find joy in the little things.

I am in the midst of my catch can integration right now. Trying to find a place to put the catch can has been the hardest part so far. I'm being somewhat picky as where it goes and how it looks in relation to OEM.

Im anxious to see how your coolant setup looks once you integrate it. Are you painting the coolant tank?

Also, where are you going to locate your catch can? Also, it looks like your venting your crankcase to atmosphere. Any particular reason why your going with this style as opposed to recirculating?

I am thinking about either polishing the tank or powdercoating it. Haven't decided yet.

I am going to mount my catch can on the rad support by the passenger headlight. Kinda like crazy02gti's that you can see here.

Wow man. I cant say i see alot of detailed Motor builds. i really like the way this is paning out.

Thanks.

Totally agree this threads getting interesting the devils in the detail.

The details are spendy though, that 180* -10 AN fitting is $30 alone.

[BOUDAH]

But you're not taking some eas way out and doing it how you want to. So thats admirable. and hella cool

[DarkSideGTI]

I have a lot to do. I am planning on shaving the front bumper, getting an R-line rear bumper, shaving the hood, and painting the roof black as well. O and getting new wheels. Hope to have everything done before Wuste in June. But I am hoping to just be able to drive it within a month.

[deadguy]

to you

[R32R1]

What do you mean your rod bearings were installed wrong?

[DarkSideGTI]

What do you mean your rod bearings were installed wrong?

When I pulled the cyl 5 piston to replace it I must have installed the rod cap on backwards. There are no dowel pins like on the IE rods, so it is easy to put them on backwards. that or there was some kind of contamination, although I cleaned the bearings with brake cleaner and then applied assembly lube.

[huichox4]

When I pulled the cyl 5 piston to replace it I must have installed the rod cap on backwards. There are no dowel pins like on the IE rods, so it is easy to put them on backwards. that or there was some kind of contamination, although I cleaned the bearings with brake cleaner and then applied assembly lube.

yeah we talked about this before and it could have been many things, from over torque which could compress the bearings too much or under torque which lets them loose, or installing the cap backwards therefore the bearings are installed wrong which could cause some issues with oil getting to the bearing.

[R32R1]

yeah we talked about this before and it could have been many things, from over torque which could compress the bearings too much or under torque which lets them loose, or installing the cap backwards therefore the bearings are installed wrong which could cause some issues with oil getting to the bearing.

Okay let me get this straight one more time because I'm getting nervous lol the bearings go in one way and one way only due to the little indent in both upper and lower bearing. With aftermarket rods, do the little indents need to be facing a certain way (front or back) or does it not matter?

[huichox4]

Okay let me get this straight one more time because I'm getting nervous lol the bearings go in one way and one way only due to the little indent in both upper and lower bearing. With aftermarket rods, do the little indents need to be facing a certain way (front or back) or does it not matter?

they will only fit one way, the rods have a little indent on them too for the bearings to seat there, the rod caps are marked as the rods so you just make sure the marks are matching or on the same side. with new rods and bearings you assemble the rod outside and torque it, measure the inner diameter and then compare with the outer diameter of the crank journal were the rod is installed. check your clearance/Gap and if its within tolerance you install it as per spec.

[DarkSideGTI]

Even the OEM ones are marked, I just made a mistake.

[DarkSideGTI]

so what do you guys think, Hold out for a used 3.2l crank, or get a 2.8l crank with custom pistons? 85mm kinda scares me on the 3.2l block. I've only heard of one person breaking a block and that was DM, they were probably pushing 35+ psi.

I didn't get to work on the bay over the weekend because I had to work. The overtime should help pay for some of this crap though.