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    Thread: Journal Bearing Precision VRT guys - Are you running an oil restrictor

    1. Member dub_slug's Avatar
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      04-21-2011 11:13 AM #71
      Back on topic...

      If my seals were blown due to excessive oil pressure; would the car be smoking all the time? My buddy says I don't smoke at all while in WOT and full boost it does smoke a little on warm up and decel

    2. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      04-21-2011 11:22 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by dub_slug View Post
      I don't smoke at all while in WOT and full boost it does smoke a little on warm up and decel

      That's exactly what mine did when the seals were blown. James Bond all over the ****ing place.

      It might be a function of EGT & flow, ie for the volume of oil leaking (volume being constant since this particular turbo had a restrictor), if the temp exceeds a certain level the rate of burn and gas flow is so rapid that you don't "see" the smoke plume (but oil is still being burned). When you slow down the oil burns slower and the overall rate of exhaust gas is less (the smoke stagnates and you see it).
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    3. Member dub_slug's Avatar
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      04-21-2011 11:35 AM #73
      Hmm that's very interesting. Where would I go about getting an inline oil pressure gauge so that I can make sure I'm not doing something wrong?
      Or can I log oil pressure through VAG-COM?

    4. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      04-21-2011 11:47 AM #74
      If your oil pressure sender is tapped off the oil filter housing (which I assume is where you are running your oil feed line from) then the pressure will be identical (assuming no additional restriction in your oil line itself).

      If your oil feed is from someplace other than the filter housing then your concern is valid and you might need to monitor pressure literally from the line itself (uncommon).

      Never checked oil pressure in Vag-Com but who knows, might be possible?
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    5. Member dub_slug's Avatar
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      04-22-2011 11:01 PM #75
      I'll be doing some logs via vag-com to see what pressures I'm running. But for now the gti will be back off the road since I stripped 3rd gear at 22psi...gonna save up for the aptuning gforce setup

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      04-23-2011 02:58 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by dub_slug View Post
      will be back off the road since I stripped 3rd gear at 22psi...gonna save up for the aptuning gforce setup
      ^ this is what i did after my 2nd stock trans with a quaife broke 3rd gear... i love the straight cut 3rd and 4th!!! I want to get another set and build a back up trans
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    7. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 11:00 AM #77
      So.... a friend installed a "kit" last weekend from Kinetic on his 1.8T with a Precision JB and it was interesting to note that it came with a restrictor supplied. Is Kinetic covering their azz given the problems that people have been having with Precision JB units or do they know something that the general users/installers are not being told by Precision? I'm not sure on the specs of the feed & drain supplied with the said kit.

      Just thought I'd stir the pot a little. FWIW, still not using a restrictor on mine and not having problems (~25,000 miles on mine now).
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    8. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 11:06 AM #78
      I have a good 3,000 miles on my 6262 journal bearing, no restrictor, no problems.

    9. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 12:46 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      I have a good 3,000 miles on my 6262 journal bearing, no restrictor, no problems.
      Good to hear but rack up a few more thousand on it. I should be around 30K within another couple of months (~2) or so. That being said people have had failures at your mileage or less. Perhaps you posted already but what is the spec on your feed line? It seems as if the "issue installations" are the ones with a -4 feed/-10 return. I think the failures with the -3 feed on the Precision JB are less common. What I'm seeing is that the guys with the -4 feed lines either are running a restrictor and/or a larger drain as people in this thread have already suggested.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    10. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 02:36 PM #80
      -4/-10 here.

      I think it's -4 anyway, whatever comes with the Kinetic kit. I know it's a -10 drain because I just swapped to a braided line last week.

      EDIT - I should also mention, I'm running 5w30, and not some retardedly thick oil that everyone likes to pimp out for the VR's. Journal bearing turbo with no restrictor, 5w30 oil, 9.5:1 compression on a turbo motor.... by Vortex definition, my car should have blown up long by now.
      Last edited by SVTDanny; 05-13-2011 at 02:52 PM.

    11. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      05-13-2011 03:13 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      -4/-10 here.

      I think it's -4 anyway, whatever comes with the Kinetic kit. I know it's a -10 drain because I just swapped to a braided line last week.
      I run -4/-10 also.

      I have been meaning to increase the -10 return on my Mk3 for a long time but it keeps falling to the bottom of my priority list. I think -10 is acceptable but in a minimal form. I'd really like Kinetic et al to start supplying larger return lines. Ultimately I will probably go with a -12.


      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      Journal bearing turbo with no restrictor, 5w30 oil, 9.5:1 compression on a turbo motor.... by Vortex definition, my car should have blown up long by now.
      Lol, you are correct!

      I don't even want to start the compression and oil topics up.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    12. Member DubmyRUCA's Avatar
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      06-08-2011 04:49 PM #82

    13. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      12-10-2011 04:55 PM #83
      Found oil in my intercooler pipes today, pretty sure it's pushing it out on the turbine side as well.

      Another 6262 killed by a VR. Will be running a restrictor next time whether Precision says OK or not.

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      12-10-2011 06:50 PM #84
      Will be running a restrictor on my JBearing 6766 soon i used a restrictor on my old Pt 61 turbo and it was still good when i sold it 3years later
      1988 Jetta Carat Vr6 powered by www.LugTronic.com (99.9% done!!! )

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      12-10-2011 09:15 PM #85
      i started this thread last year, i have been running a restrictor all season and have had 0 problems

    16. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      12-11-2011 08:56 PM #86
      I might try just sticking a restrictor on mine and seeing if that resolves the problem rather than having to take it off and be without the car for who knows how long while Precision tries fervently to find a reason why it's my fault....

    17. 12-11-2011 09:57 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      while Precision tries fervently to find a reason why it's my fault....
      It's sad, but true.

      On my setup I bought an undrilled oil inlet flange and then drilled it to a size I wanted, which was a slightly larger than the standard oil restrictor most people use. 0.065" seemed a bit small. No problems thus far on a -4 / -10 setup... not many miles on it yet though.

    18. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      12-12-2011 04:56 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      I might try just sticking a restrictor on mine and seeing if that resolves the problem.
      It should.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    19. Member Stangy's Avatar
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      12-13-2011 04:14 PM #89
      Precision 6031 w/restrictor. It was reccomended by Precision as they stated without the restrictor the excess oil would bleed through the oil seals. Meh.

    20. Banned SVTDanny's Avatar
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      12-13-2011 05:37 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by Stangy View Post
      Precision 6031 w/restrictor. It was reccomended by Precision as they stated without the restrictor the excess oil would bleed through the oil seals. Meh.
      They told you to use a restrictor?!?!?! Sounds like they've changed their tune.

    21. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      12-13-2011 07:40 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      They told you to use a restrictor?!?!?! Sounds like they've changed their tune.
      Lol, yep cuz they have always been adamant not to run a restrictor unless you have abnormally high oil pressure.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    22. Member Stangy's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 12:05 AM #92
      Straight from horses mouth haha. Nik from cts Turbo! If I am not mistaken he says he reccomends it for all t3/t4 turbos. This was months ago so I may be off.

    23. Member Big_Tom's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 02:20 AM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Stangy View Post
      Straight from horses mouth haha. Nik from cts Turbo! If I am not mistaken he says he reccomends it for all t3/t4 turbos. This was months ago so I may be off.
      Quote Originally Posted by V-dubbulyuh View Post
      Lol, yep cuz they have always been adamant not to run a restrictor unless you have abnormally high oil pressure.
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      They told you to use a restrictor?!?!?! Sounds like they've changed their tune.
      Quote Originally Posted by Stangy View Post
      Precision 6031 w/restrictor. It was reccomended by Precision as they stated without the restrictor the excess oil would bleed through the oil seals. Meh.
      Quote Originally Posted by V-dubbulyuh View Post
      It should.
      Quote Originally Posted by optiks View Post
      i started this thread last year, i have been running a restrictor all season and have had 0 problems
      LOL i guess restrictors do work after all everytime i mention it 900 people swear their turbos were destroyed by running them lol
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      12-14-2011 07:23 AM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by Big_Tom View Post
      LOL i guess restrictors do work after all everytime i mention it 900 people swear their turbos were destroyed by running them lol
      Good job on confusing everyone again to restrictor or not to restrictor a Precision turbo
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    25. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 09:07 AM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by Stangy View Post
      Straight from horses mouth haha. Nik from cts Turbo! If I am not mistaken he says he reccomends it for all t3/t4 turbos.
      Hold a sec, that is misleading... CTS/Nick is not Precision Turbo. Entirely two different sources. I am yet to hear Precision themselves agree to restrictor usage. I spoke to them in August (2011) about one of my turbos that I sent in.

      That being said despite Precision on multiple times telling me not to use a restrictor (unless you have what they determine "high oil pressure") I think we have proven that on Vrs if you are using the -4/-10AN combination you will run into issue on their JB turbos.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    26. Member Stangy's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 10:42 AM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by V-dubbulyuh View Post
      Hold a sec, that is misleading... CTS/Nick is not Precision Turbo. Entirely two different sources. I am yet to hear Precision themselves agree to restrictor usage. I spoke to them in August (2011) about one of my turbos that I sent in.

      That being said despite Precision on multiple times telling me not to use a restrictor (unless you have what they determine "high oil pressure") I think we have proven that on Vrs if you are using the -4/-10AN combination you will run into issue on their JB turbos.
      Im going to make this more confusing...i am running it on a 16vt . I suck at reading the titles haha

    27. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 11:50 AM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by Stangy View Post
      Im going to make this more confusing...i am running it on a 16vt . I suck at reading the titles haha
      What do you 16vt guys see for oil pressure at idle?
      What do you 16vt guys see for oil pressure at cruise?

      Unless you are very confident in your return system, ie large drain (> -10 AN) on a VR you might be better suited to running a restrictor despite Precision's advice. I have had good results without a restrictor but given how many failures we have on the JB turbos it is probably the wise thing to do.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

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      12-14-2011 01:48 PM #98
      Not a VR owner but have had problems with my PTE BB5557 JB turbo. Here's a cool story:

      1 year into the turbo with about 5K miles. Running with no restrictor -4an feed and -10an return. I have another car for daily driver. Ran the car at the track twice with a total of 5 runs at 30psi on race fuel. When driven off the track it sees about 20-24psi depending on my mood. Good chunk of the 5K mileage came from driving to North Carolina from NYC and back.

      About a month after my warranty expires, the car starts smoking. Checked the IC piping.. all were clean and dry. Checked the tailpipe and nothing but oil on the inside. Took off the vband on the downpipe and dry. I'm thinking at this point the oil is just spitting towards the back of the exhaust.

      Turbo is off the car and everything looks fine and dandy. Take off the back housing and voila.. bad seals and oil leaking from everywhere. Sent it back to Precision, told me there was damage internally and that this was not manufacturer defect. Pay to rebuild and change seals or upgrade to BB.

      I've read and heard personally from my shop that the journals have issues. Precision does clearly state not to use a restrictor. Stand by your product or dont sell it. Hopefully this ball bearing unit holds up.
      Got Boost?

    29. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 02:33 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by BklynVeeDub View Post
      I've read and heard personally from my shop that the journals have issues. Precision does clearly state not to use a restrictor. Stand by your product or dont sell it. Hopefully this ball bearing unit holds up.
      The BB will hold up as it is internally restricted (can't see that they will use a different oil seal on the BB product-maybe they do and I'm ignorant to it but my suspicion is otherwise). I've never had an issue with their BB turbos, the JB is another story. Not that the JB are "unreliable" but they are certainly not as bulletproof as the BB (oil issues on one JB but never on a BB). If they were not asking ~$800-1000 to upgrade each JB to BB spec I would go ahead an have the upgrade done on everything. For now it is more cost effective to run a larger drain and then a restrictor if oil is still present.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    30. Member BklynVeeDub's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 02:56 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by V-dubbulyuh View Post
      The BB will hold up as it is internally restricted (can't see that they will use a different oil seal on the BB product-maybe they do and I'm ignorant to it but my suspicion is otherwise). I've never had an issue with their BB turbos, the JB is another story. Not that the JB are "unreliable" but they are certainly not as bulletproof as the BB (oil issues on one JB but never on a BB). If they were not asking ~$800-1000 to upgrade each JB to BB spec I would go ahead an have the upgrade done on everything. For now it is more cost effective to run a larger drain and then a restrictor if oil is still present.
      When the idea of putting a restrictor on was bought up, the argument was that it would starve the turbo. Didnt they run the proper tests for oil pressure on the JB turbos? I wasnt very happy with the idea of having to up a lot of money to upgrade it to BB to avoid this problem again but I am happy with the new found spool up time.

      I just hope that Precision will come up with a fix for these issues.
      Got Boost?

    31. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      12-14-2011 04:42 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by BklynVeeDub View Post
      When the idea of putting a restrictor on was bought up, the argument was that it would starve the turbo. Didnt they run the proper tests for oil pressure on the JB turbos? I wasnt very happy with the idea of having to up a lot of money to upgrade it to BB to avoid this problem again but I am happy with the new found spool up time.

      I just hope that Precision will come up with a fix for these issues.
      Yep, their BB are great (I also agree with you on spool time). JB are kinda iffy for daily drivers if your configuration is not right. With respect to your question on starvation, all restrictors are not created equal. You can get blank restrictors of which you drill to your own spec or if you think that the pre-drilled restrictor is too restrictive then you can increase the bore.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    32. Member Dave926's Avatar
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      12-15-2011 06:12 PM #102
      On my 16vt I see about 12 psi at idle, and 60psi or so at 6k rpm. That's using valvoline vr1 20w-50w on a tired motor.

      Id still be suspicious of a precision jb turbo, its not just vw's/vr's that are having issues, there was a pretty decently sized thread on dsm tuners as well.

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      12-15-2011 08:15 PM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave926 View Post
      On my 16vt I see about 12 psi at idle, and 60psi or so at 6k rpm. That's using valvoline vr1 20w-50w on a tired motor.

      Id still be suspicious of a precision jb turbo, its not just vw's/vr's that are having issues, there was a pretty decently sized thread on dsm tuners as well.
      ^^^ yup, i seen problems on multiple forums
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      12-15-2011 08:30 PM #104
      Toasted a 6262 journal bearing turbo in 6 weeks with a restrictor. Precision says not to run a restrictor because the oil pressure in the VR6 isn't considered high.
      Quote Originally Posted by ..Derek.. View Post
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      12-15-2011 09:00 PM #105
      Ok now idk what to do with my journal bearing 6766 lol
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