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    Thread: CEL Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor

    1. 06-12-2012 10:12 PM #36
      At 82,000

    2. Junior Member
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      07-21-2012 06:58 PM #37
      Was coming back from Vegas today, MIL goes on. When I threw the Vag Com on the car (it's at about 26,700ish miles) I saw the following:

      1 Fault Found:
      008213 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1): Implausible Signal
      P2015 - 000 - - - Intermittent - MIL ON

      I checked VW Vortex and saw that I went through this last time at 7900 miles. This is getting scary. Luckily, still under warranty. Can't wait to see what the dealership says since they already supposedly replaced the intake manifold with the updated part last time.

      Stay tuned, friends...

    3. Member Chutem16V's Avatar
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      07-23-2012 08:16 AM #38
      I have a 2010 Passat with the 2.0 motor & the DSG. My car has always (since new) been very grabby & lurched at lower speeds - very annoying at low speeds. I had it to the the dealer many times ( the service manager actually drove the car himself for a few days). I really thought it was the DSG or the mechatronics unit. I learned to live with it, but did not always feel the love for the car. At 45k, a coil pack went & they replaced it N/C (I have the Platinum extended warranty to 100K - but they said it was factory warranteed). Last week (at 50K), another coil pack went. They replaced it N/C, but also replaced the entire intake manifold & flapper motor - THE CODE FINALLY SHOWED UP - (all N/C - not even the $100 deductible). WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! The car feels 99% better & light years better in the drivability category. The service manager said he never heard of this result from this recall - but he has done quite a few! Kudos to Reydel VW in Edison, NJ - WAY COOL!.

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      07-23-2012 03:50 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Chutem16V View Post
      I have a 2010 Passat with the 2.0 motor & the DSG. My car has always (since new) been very grabby & lurched at lower speeds - very annoying at low speeds. I had it to the the dealer many times ( the service manager actually drove the car himself for a few days). I really thought it was the DSG or the mechatronics unit. I learned to live with it, but did not always feel the love for the car. At 45k, a coil pack went & they replaced it N/C (I have the Platinum extended warranty to 100K - but they said it was factory warranteed). Last week (at 50K), another coil pack went. They replaced it N/C, but also replaced the entire intake manifold & flapper motor - THE CODE FINALLY SHOWED UP - (all N/C - not even the $100 deductible). WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! The car feels 99% better & light years better in the drivability category. The service manager said he never heard of this result from this recall - but he has done quite a few! Kudos to Reydel VW in Edison, NJ - WAY COOL!.
      So they replaced the intake manifold bc a code showed up or is there some recall on the flapper motor?

      Also, could you explain in a bit more detail what sort of drivability issues you were having at low speeds? Would you describe them as "hesitations" or "hiccups"? Did they occur at specific rpms? Did hot temps make them worse?
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    5. Member Chutem16V's Avatar
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      07-23-2012 05:59 PM #40
      It pretty much happened at low speeds (crawling in traffic. start/stop in town, etc.). If I was at a stop in traffic on the hwy & took my foot off the brake, the car would surge forward, & get real grabby like the trans (or the clutch packs) were slipping. Turn a corner & when you put your foot on the gas it would grab kinda hard (very annoying). Hot or cold didn't matter. Sometimes (this is weird) when I put it in reverse, it would take a good few seconds before it would grab (now it goes it quite a bit quicker). Like I said it's not perfect, but I think that now it is fixed - this is how the car should be. I was thinking of trading it in before this (to sell on my own - I think if someone did a test drive, they would notice the jerkiness - my wife hated it), now I think I'll keep it. Hope the gas mileage improves also. I average 27 MPG with "spirited highway/local driving". Also wish the A/C got colder (it's been checked). This was not the greatest year for the Passat as it is a bit of a mishmosh of parts from previous years (there is no 2011) as they knew a big redesign was in the works for 2012. What can you do??!!

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      07-28-2012 07:18 PM #41
      UPDATE: Just back from dealer. The CEL was off but I told them it was probably in memory and that I had used my Vag-Com. They found the code. Same problem. Another new intake manifold. I told them of my displeasure. Am I going to need a new intake manifold every year? Anyway, they also did the 30K service. So let's see how long this intake manifold lasts...I hope this is not a recall type situation.

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      07-29-2012 09:03 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by camarkim View Post
      UPDATE: Just back from dealer. The CEL was off but I told them it was probably in memory and that I had used my Vag-Com. They found the code. Same problem. Another new intake manifold. I told them of my displeasure. Am I going to need a new intake manifold every year? Anyway, they also did the 30K service. So let's see how long this intake manifold lasts...I hope this is not a recall type situation.
      When you had yours replaced before it might have been before the revised intake manifold came out.

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      07-30-2012 09:46 AM #43
      Could be. First time they replaced part they used part number: 06J-133-201-AL. This time they used part number 06J-133-201-AS.

    9. Junior Member metaldisc's Avatar
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      08-18-2012 02:29 AM #44
      2009 VW CC 2.0 TSI Auto 54,000k miles.

      Add me to the list of Intake Manifold failures. Engine would stutter and want to stall when stopped. It does not idle correctly. On the streets and freeway, it would go ok. Just not when it is stopped.

      I'm going to give the VW dealership a call tomorrow to see about a fix. Hopefully I can get this resolved.

      Are these intake manifolds generally in stock in their parts dept? This is showing as a 3.3 hour job for a technician in a repair manual. Is this accurate?

      These are my codes from a $30 USB OBD2 reader connected to my laptop:

      Code Type Description
      P2015 PowerTrain Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit Range/Performance
      P0300 PowerTrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
      P0304 PowerTrain Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
      P2015 PowerTrain Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit Range/Performance
      P2015 PowerTrain Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit Range/Performance
      P0300 PowerTrain Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
      P0304 PowerTrain Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
      P0302 PowerTrain Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
      P2015 PowerTrain Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit Range/Performance
      P0301 PowerTrain Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
      P0303 PowerTrain Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
      Last edited by metaldisc; 08-23-2012 at 02:45 AM.

    10. Junior Member metaldisc's Avatar
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      08-18-2012 07:13 PM #45
      Just got a call from the dealership and it is the intake manifold. Pretty cool dealership because they told me right off the bat that if it's the intake manifold, warranty will take car of it. I didn't have to say anything about warranty or fight about it.

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      08-26-2012 02:24 PM #46
      Check the part number after they replace it. See if it matches my first replacement intake or my second replaced intake part. I'm hoping it matches the second, which would give us both hope that that is the proper/updated part number.

    12. Junior Member metaldisc's Avatar
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      08-26-2012 09:59 PM #47
      They put on the same manifold as your second one.

      This is what's on the service invoice:

      Replace the intake manifold, fuel injector seals and oil filter.


      06j115403j oil filter
      06j998907b repair kit
      06j133201as manifold

    13. Member GTI16VFAN2's Avatar
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      12-17-2012 04:19 PM #48
      All this is making me think that this may not be TSI specific...... My horror story continuing :

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-GTI-Nightmare

    14. Member onevrsix's Avatar
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      12-17-2012 04:36 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by GTI16VFAN2 View Post
      All this is making me think that this may not be TSI specific...... My horror story continuing :

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-GTI-Nightmare
      After reading your post I think it's safe to say mechanic error may have played a part in your repairs.

      The FSI is known for flap failure as well as the tsi only difference is the Flapper on the FSi can be replaced without doing the whole manifold while the TSI requires the entire manifold to be replaced. I had to replace my TSI manifold once and when I got in there there was a good deal of residue from the PVC system. People will tell you a catch can will solve this but that is false; I've come accross plenty of people with catch cans who have the same issue. All direct injection cars will have carbon residue buil up on intake valves and parts with or without a catch can so do yourself a favor and don't spend the big $$ on a useless part. People will show you pictures of gunk and tell you it's worth every penny but your car burns those vapors off.

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      12-17-2012 04:44 PM #50
      Yes I agree that the mechanic going "by the books" could have skipped some of this nonsense but now that all that is replaced ( two flapper motors, wiring harness, ecu) do you agree that the last thing to point at is the intake manifold?

    16. n00b
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      01-18-2014 09:45 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      Will do. From my research, it looks like this is not a totally un-common problem, but from what I can tell most if not all were w/in the warranty period(s) which is just our luck it seems...

      The new intake is ~$145 from 1stvwparts, so I guess any type of repair is not really worth it. It appears from the pic of the part on ECS that it comes with the vacuum actuator as well as the solenoid valve (which was my concern). Since it appears to be a bit of a pain job, I will likely replace. Possibly already revisions on the assy. 06J133201G -> link to ECS -> http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/06J_133_201_G/ES251176/, but they are more than 1stvw.

      I did try one last attempt though. This time with some WD40 and compressed air on the actuator shaft while attached to a manual vacuum pump to activate the flap to a fro about 100 times. It seems to work better, but the sound of plastic to plastic seems to be what is likely causing the sticking over time and possibly due to wear of the shaft.

      I will post as things develop, but one more time the code it thrown and a new intake will be in store... sigh

      Shawn
      Not all. Our '08 2.0T Passat Wagon just had this happen at 90K.

      Quote Originally Posted by Boosted2003! View Post
      Fuel pumps don't have any real issues anymore.
      that would be nice. But the high pressure pump quit in ours at 80K. We needed it back quick so I wasn't able to get to it myself... but $750 for the dealer installed FP... ouch! I'll be doing it myself next time as long as I'm at home and we aren't in a jam.

      Quote Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic View Post
      I have a spare intake manifold and I did a small video about it showing how the flappers work and such:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6McP_FmZ9Lk
      Thank you!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      Changed in the intake..

      Hopefully, this thread will serve someone well in the future.

      Anyway, I replaced the intake assy which comes with all sensors and the solenoid for the flap, etc.

      With only 45k, I was shocked to see the buildup of thick gunk on the flaps, diverter plates, head ports and valves. I literally spent 2 hours cleaning this stuff out... Valves closed of course, port by port.

      I guess a catch can might be a good investment. The car is completely stock and meticulously maintained... FYI

      The job would be fairly straight forward if there was an easy way to get to the p/s rear Throttle body bolt . I wasn't removing those coolant lines, but it definitely would have made it easier.

      2000ft rundown in case you need to change it out yourself.
      [snip...]
      I am sure I am missing something as I am going from memory, but this will get you 99% there if you are mechanically inclined.
      Thank you!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by piperpilot964 View Post
      Had a chat with the service guys concerning what was really done when mine was replaced last month. Apparently the intake has been redesigned to strengthen the point where the flapper motor linkage connects to the actuating shaft. So they should be replacing the whole intake when the flapper acts up.
      Very interesting - so should I just replace the intake?

      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      I think VW is keeping the price of the whole intake assy low (much like the MKIV Cops) to elude some of the hassle Not that it looks like a super expensive part, but the one solenoid alone sells for ~$80 and the whole intake was as mentioned with the pos sensor, actuator, solenoid, etc, etc. Seems like a typical $500 VW overpriced part.

      Didn't even think about the PT warranty to be honest, just needed it fixed and since the mechanical part is no problem for me, It was cheap enough just to fix. I did mention it to the tech there though and he said to just keep the receipt in case they issue a TSB/recall down the road. I did this on the Fuel pump on my MkII Scirocco back in the day some 5 years after the recall
      Any tips on where to get VW parts for less than dealer walk-in rates?

      Thanks for keeping this forum alive guys. I don't use it much and overall we haven't needed much, but whenever I have questions it's always here!!!

    17. n00b
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      01-18-2014 09:56 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by dasdub89 View Post
      it really isnt the debris that is the problem. in all honesty, its just the manufacturing of the electrical components. the fault is set off by the flap motor that sits on the right of the manifold. the new manifold comes with a new intake pressure sensor, and a new flap motor already installed. you just have to transfer the fuel lines, the pcv valve and another small sensor on the front of the manifold. I am a tech in the D.C. area and we have cars with these faults come in all the time. And very rarely do you see debris in the vacuum system related to this fault. Now that isnt to say that there isnt carbon build up in the intake ports on the head, but that is due to the fact that the fuel injectors are under the intake ports so the fuel doesnt get to clean the ports out, so that part you will sea alot of carbon build up. especially with 40k on the motor...which by the way is one of the most important maintenance procedures on our DUBs, so be mindful of that as well. anyway taking off the intake manifold isnt as bad as it looks. You only need a few tools and a lil bit of patience. you will need a T30 torx bit to remove the bolts from the manifold (there are 6 of them i believe, and also two 10mm bolts on the lower part of the manifold), you also need to take off the throttle body, it makes it alot easier to maneuver and finagle with the manifold once its off, you also will need a flat head screw driver. take off the intercooler piping from the throttle body, you will end up removing about a two foot section of plastic and rubber tubing. take the throttle body off after that, (dont forget to disconnect all the connectors) un bolt the manifold and be sure again to disconnect the connectors before you start pulling. once everything is disconnected, un bolted this is the part where you have to be very careful. you can go ahead and tug on the manifold untill it starts to back out. make sure you pull it straight from its point of mounting or you run the chance of bending a fuel injector and trust me....you dont want to sepnd the money on one of those. after a few tugs the manifold should come loose. you will need to replace the fuel injector seals at the point, (you need to everytime you remove the manifold). thats really all it takes to remove the manifold. and obviously do the steps in reverse order to reinstall the new manifold...which you will need to do in order to rid of that fault. gl
      Thanks for this post. So are you saying it's good preventative maint. to pull the intake and clean the carbon out of it periodically? ('08 2.0T Passat) We have 90K. At this point is it better to just replace the intake? And in the future should I pull the intake periodically to clean it? Is it a reusable gasket?

      If I replace w new intake, do I read right that the CDVS Vag Com cannot update the computer, will I still need to bring it to the dealer for that?

      Thanks

    18. n00b
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      01-18-2014 10:12 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by MrRline View Post
      Just out of curiosity how many of you are over 60k miles? Anything with p2015 should be covered under the power train warranty for the car and in the event like with mine last week with the flapper motor failing the entire intake manifold was replaced at no cost to me.
      90K, 6 years. Well out of warranty. If it's this problematic, I guess we are lucky to have made it to 90K!

    19. Junior Member kevlar557's Avatar
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      03-07-2014 02:39 PM #54
      Just had this happen to me at 81k. Dealer replaced under extended intake manifold warranty. At least VW admitted there was a problem with the parts, unlike this whole GM ignition debacle

    20. Member MrRline's Avatar
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      03-07-2014 03:41 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by deekster_caddy View Post
      90K, 6 years. Well out of warranty. If it's this problematic, I guess we are lucky to have made it to 90K!
      Really lucky I think lol. better news though for those that are going to run this past the warranty period. They seem to be quite cheap on ecs and to be honest it doesn't look all that hard to replace, although having never done one I dont' want to be the first test dummy
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    21. n00b
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      03-07-2014 03:56 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by MrRline View Post
      Really lucky I think lol. better news though for those that are going to run this past the warranty period. They seem to be quite cheap on ecs and to be honest it doesn't look all that hard to replace, although having never done one I dont' want to be the first test dummy
      Actually, I'm very happy to report that I checked w the dealer just before I ordered the manifold, and they covered it under the extended service bulliten about this specific problem. I did have to pay out of pocket for the carbon cleaning, but even so that was cheaper than me buying the manifold!

      I believe he said the extended coverage on the intake problem was to 120K miles, so if you are having this issue, it's worth checking in!

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      04-16-2014 10:14 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by deekster_caddy View Post
      Actually, I'm very happy to report that I checked w the dealer just before I ordered the manifold, and they covered it under the extended service bulliten about this specific problem. I did have to pay out of pocket for the carbon cleaning, but even so that was cheaper than me buying the manifold!

      I believe he said the extended coverage on the intake problem was to 120K miles, so if you are having this issue, it's worth checking in!
      i just noticed this issue this week, and i checked my car with a vag com, and BAM P2015 code. i'll be calling my dealer, but how much was it for carbon cleaning?

    23. Member MikeinNJ's Avatar
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      04-16-2014 10:27 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Lucian1988 View Post
      i just noticed this issue this week, and i checked my car with a vag com, and BAM P2015 code. i'll be calling my dealer, but how much was it for carbon cleaning?
      Friend of mine just went through this. If they warranty the intake manifold, that will be free and the carbon cleaning should run about $300, which is a lot less than normal, since they will have the intake manifold off already, which is half the labor cost of a typical carbon cleaning. Normally, a dealer will charge $7-900 for a carbon cleaning, and most indy shops will charge $5-600 or so. My friend did the manifold and full carbon cleaning for $300. They said the carbon cleaning by itself would have been about $900. Good luck!
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      04-16-2014 11:34 PM #59
      Common problem for bmws too my e39 3.0 had the same problem until some guy game up with his own repair kit with a metal flapper and internals well worth it cause it would self destruct and then forced into the valves and bending them luckily when mine had self destructed it didn't bend the valves I just had horrible throttle response, I always found it amusing how people from the bmw community would make their own fixes and would far surpass oem parts and giving you peace of mind but that goes to show that some crafty person who know a lot about how the 2.0 tsi intake manifold works and come up with a permanent fix like a kit
      The bmw kit was 60$ and used your existing unit and you replaced the internals took 20min tops
      Or you could buy one from bmw for 450$ for it just to fail again, kinda like in this case

      Posted via Topify using iPhone/iPad

    25. Member milan187's Avatar
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      04-17-2014 09:50 AM #60
      How many of you guys where tuned and got the part replaced under warranty?
      I'm in Canada and we just got letter on extended warranty for intake manifold and fuel injectors. (up to 160k miles I think).

    26. n00b
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      04-17-2014 11:57 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Lucian1988 View Post
      i just noticed this issue this week, and i checked my car with a vag com, and BAM P2015 code. i'll be calling my dealer, but how much was it for carbon cleaning?
      It was around $100 labor. I don't remember the exact amount.

    27. n00b
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      04-17-2014 12:04 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Luis Munoz View Post
      Common problem for bmws too my e39 3.0 had the same problem until some guy game up with his own repair kit with a metal flapper and internals well worth it cause it would self destruct and then forced into the valves and bending them luckily when mine had self destructed it didn't bend the valves I just had horrible throttle response, I always found it amusing how people from the bmw community would make their own fixes and would far surpass oem parts and giving you peace of mind but that goes to show that some crafty person who know a lot about how the 2.0 tsi intake manifold works and come up with a permanent fix like a kit
      The bmw kit was 60$ and used your existing unit and you replaced the internals took 20min tops
      Or you could buy one from bmw for 450$ for it just to fail again, kinda like in this case

      Posted via Topify using iPhone/iPad
      My impression is that the problem was the actuator and the buildup of gunk for being post-turbo. I don't believe there's any physical damage to the flappers.

    28. 06-27-2014 02:11 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by dasdub89 View Post
      it really isnt the debris that is the problem. in all honesty, its just the manufacturing of the electrical components. the fault is set off by the flap motor that sits on the right of the manifold. the new manifold comes with a new intake pressure sensor, and a new flap motor already installed. you just have to transfer the fuel lines, the pcv valve and another small sensor on the front of the manifold. I am a tech in the D.C. area and we have cars with these faults come in all the time. And very rarely do you see debris in the vacuum system related to this fault. Now that isnt to say that there isnt carbon build up in the intake ports on the head, but that is due to the fact that the fuel injectors are under the intake ports so the fuel doesnt get to clean the ports out, so that part you will sea alot of carbon build up. especially with 40k on the motor...which by the way is one of the most important maintenance procedures on our DUBs, so be mindful of that as well. anyway taking off the intake manifold isnt as bad as it looks. You only need a few tools and a lil bit of patience. you will need a T30 torx bit to remove the bolts from the manifold (there are 6 of them i believe, and also two 10mm bolts on the lower part of the manifold), you also need to take off the throttle body, it makes it alot easier to maneuver and finagle with the manifold once its off, you also will need a flat head screw driver. take off the intercooler piping from the throttle body, you will end up removing about a two foot section of plastic and rubber tubing. take the throttle body off after that, (dont forget to disconnect all the connectors) un bolt the manifold and be sure again to disconnect the connectors before you start pulling. once everything is disconnected, un bolted this is the part where you have to be very careful. you can go ahead and tug on the manifold untill it starts to back out. make sure you pull it straight from its point of mounting or you run the chance of bending a fuel injector and trust me....you dont want to sepnd the money on one of those. after a few tugs the manifold should come loose. you will need to replace the fuel injector seals at the point, (you need to everytime you remove the manifold). thats really all it takes to remove the manifold. and obviously do the steps in reverse order to reinstall the new manifold...which you will need to do in order to rid of that fault. gl

      dasdub89,
      Is a seal tool required when replacing the injector seals? I noticed this "tool" when looking up a seal kit and was curious if I needed to purchase one. I have 111k on my 10 CC and I know for a fact the carbon has not been cleaned since I purchased it at 39k. In fact I never heard of it until checking out this forum. I would take it in to the dealership for the 2015 code but they quoted me $400-$600 for the carbon cleaning alone.... besides I already purchased a new intake before I found about about the extended warranty.

      Thanks in advance
      Tim

    29. n00b
      Join Date
      Aug 25th, 2014
      Location
      Riverview, FL
      Posts
      1
      Vehicles
      2010 VW CC R-Line
      08-25-2014 02:10 PM #64
      Looks like VW knows this is an issue. I just took my wife's car on Friday with a P2015 code, and sure enough it was the manifold (thanks VW Vortex for helping me know what it might be). They replaced it, and told me that this part would normally be covered under the 6/60K powertrain warranty, but VW has had quite a few of these come back in so they extended the warranty on these parts. The new warranty on the manifold (an attached sensors) as well as the injectors is 120K miles. Great news if you've had this issue.

      Unfortunately, my wife's car died today...back to the dealership to figure out the new problem. Hopefully it's related to the manifold, as we have passed the 3/36K comprehensive coverage (we're at 47k), and don't have an extended warranty.
      Last edited by Rattler98; 08-25-2014 at 03:01 PM.

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