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    Thread: She's goin water cooled...'72 Westfalia

    1. 02-19-2011 01:18 AM #1
      Not my bus, but doing the conversion for a friend. New motor '89 Jetta 1.8.
      Pulled it in tonight. And this is where it is so far. Hoping to have it done in a week. We'll see.









    2. Member
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      02-19-2011 12:00 PM #2
      Damn, that's clean...great project

    3. Member Schell R32's Avatar
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      1965 type 1 chassis car,1971 super beetle,2006 GMC crew cab Duramax,'04 mustang GT
      02-19-2011 12:12 PM #3
      sweeeeet I love those conversions...the biggest "fail" or the bays...

      their stock motors!...though way better than the first gens, the suby and 4cyl/5 cyl conversons are awesome.
      www.401restos.com

      Quit your complaining and do it right!!!

    4. Member SauerKraut's Avatar
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      02-19-2011 03:24 PM #4
      The purists might be getting some sand up in their business.
      DCI FOR LIFE
      vansquad - poppin your top, bitch!

      dmiw.

    5. 02-19-2011 03:36 PM #5
      cool project, keep us posted man
      DHP, bringing the Dry Heat or What?!

      http://dhpvw.com/blog/

      pinstripes by el Roy http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/El-...52145338182434

    6. 02-19-2011 04:38 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by SauerKraut View Post
      The purists might be getting some sand up in their business.
      Funny. But who cares Mike, it's your bus!!
      You can do what you want. Thats my motto!!!

    7. 02-20-2011 12:56 AM #7
      Cleaned up the new motor some. Pulled the fuel tank out and replaced it with a
      fuel injected one. Checked the sending unit to make sure it was good, don't
      feel like pulling it back out later. Cut 7/16 off of the tip of the input shaft and
      beveled the edge to accept the new KEP support bearing that is pressed into the crank.
      With luck the motor will be in tomorrow.





      Last edited by air skooled; 02-21-2011 at 03:27 PM.

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      02-20-2011 10:26 AM #8
      Ahhh, I love the smell of progress in the morning.So the stock tranny is good to go after cutting the shaft back?.You don't need to worry about the internals at all?

    9. Member SauerKraut's Avatar
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      02-20-2011 05:08 PM #9
      People have run VR6s or American V6s on bus trannies without issue. As long as the clutch is upraded for those motors, it can handle it.

      So a little 8v shouldn't cause any issues.
      DCI FOR LIFE
      vansquad - poppin your top, bitch!

      dmiw.

    10. Member Schell R32's Avatar
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      1965 type 1 chassis car,1971 super beetle,2006 GMC crew cab Duramax,'04 mustang GT
      02-20-2011 05:14 PM #10
      ^^X2

      any 3-5-6 rib bus trans can handle well into 200hp..going easy and not banging gears.

      091,6 rib is the "holy grail" of 'em all if you gonna stuff some hp in there.
      www.401restos.com

      Quit your complaining and do it right!!!

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      02-20-2011 05:21 PM #11
      Sounds simple enough.

    12. 02-21-2011 12:38 PM #12
      I am watching this thread closely.

      I plan to do the same to my 72 westfalia. Just picked up the donor car the other day. A 91 GTI - 8v with only 150,000 kms.

      Are you sure that the 3 rib will be ok gearing wise? I heard that it might be geared too low. I have a spare 5 rib but I don't think that is much better. Been holding out for a 6 rib.

      Where are you putting the rad? Under frame rails? That is where mine is going.

      What are you doing for an engine access panel under the bunk?

      Thanks and keep posting the progress.

      Craig

    13. Member SauerKraut's Avatar
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      02-21-2011 12:47 PM #13
      The stock trans gives you about 65 at 4000 in 4th on the freeway, which is as fast as I need to go in a bus, and fine for an inline 4. Not wanting to regear or find a freeway flyer trans was the main reason aside from cost for not going with a TDI.

      With the stock bus motor there was always a huge power gap between 2nd and 3rd, and 3rd and 4th, so it should fill the gaps nicely.

      May add an engine hatch in the future if it turns out to be a pain.
      DCI FOR LIFE
      vansquad - poppin your top, bitch!

      dmiw.

    14. 02-21-2011 03:03 PM #14
      According to KEP: No modifications are needed to the vw transaxle unless the engine is exceedingly large or unusal abuse is expected. But also has these side notes.
      (a) 74 and newer buses and vanagons used very gear fine teeth on 3rd and 4th. They are quiter but will not stand much abuse and will break up if the main shaft bearing gets worn.
      (b) '84-'88 bus transaxles are subject to cracking of the 3-4 slider hub.
      (c) the bus gear ratio 4.875/1 is preferred for its strength.
      (d)'72 and newer buses have a welded 4th gear.

      Last edited by air skooled; 02-21-2011 at 03:24 PM.

    15. 02-21-2011 03:23 PM #15
      Cleaned the motor some more. Dirty pig. Installed a new timing belt and roller.
      Went to install the adapter and noticed that one of the alignment dowels was missing. Went on a hunt for something that would work. Couldn't find anything that was even close. Then I noticed a oil pressure relief piston from a vw case and wondered how close it might be. Well it fit so well I couldn't believe it.
      A perfect press in fit. NICE. All I had to do was finish drilling through the piston and shorten it
      about 3/8". Couldn't have asked for a better fit from a machine shop. So the adapter is on, along with the flywheel. KEP also supplies a bearing that is a press fit into the end of the crank to support the input shaft. Installed the 200mm clutch and pressure plate.





    16. 02-21-2011 05:13 PM #16
      This motor originally had a power steering pump on it. Since that is gone the belt for the alt no longer lines up with any other pulleys. Guess I need to find some different pulley(s).
      The breather in the valve cover was plugged full of oil. So bad, that it in no way it could of
      vented the motor correctly. The valve cover was also leaking, had more red rtv on it than comes in a tube. Took it off and let it soak in solvent over night and then put it in the oven for about 45 minutes at 450 degrees to burn off whatever was left. Then powder coated it along with the timing belt cover.




    17. 02-21-2011 06:17 PM #17
      Looking good. Keep the pictures coming. You have motivated me enough to place an order to KEP tomorrow.

      Not sure what to tell you about the pulley for the power steering pump. I'll need to do the same.

      Have you tackled the engine mounts yet?

      Are you familar with these conversion sites?

      Someone there might be able to help you out. I have some other pictures and links that I have saved over the past year doing some research. PM me if interested.

      Thanks

      Craig

      http://shoptalkforums.com/

      http://www.vwkd.co.uk/bb/

    18. 02-21-2011 06:40 PM #18
      That's cool. Always happy to motivate. Now that I think of it, there was a belt from the lower crank pulley to the ps pump but no other belts on the engine. I think they were running it
      with the belt on an angle, which doesn't surprise me because of the other halfassed things I'm finding. I'm thinking the alt pulley needs to be longer. As far as mounts go, I will figure that out
      when I get to it. I've looked at the other sites too. I've been doing engine/trans swaps in cars and trucks for years.

    19. 02-21-2011 08:23 PM #19
      lookin good
      here is a great site for any swap you can imagine into an aircooled, you may be familiar wit it if not it could help
      http://frost.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions
      DHP, bringing the Dry Heat or What?!

      http://dhpvw.com/blog/

      pinstripes by el Roy http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/El-...52145338182434

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      02-21-2011 09:04 PM #20
      I've never had the pleasure of driving a bus (yet) I'ld imagine the difference will be night and day with this motor.

    21. 02-22-2011 02:19 AM #21
      Blocked off the water outlet along with the oil pressure port.



      Attempting to install it, but the throttle body hits the insulation.



      Pulled out the insulation but the throttle body hits the brace so I removed it.

      Engine is now bolted in but I can't get the throttle body back on without cutting out the brace or removing the floor. I vote the floor. Access will be so much better.




      There is about a 1/4" between the head and the fuel tank cover.



      Down pipe exits right on the tire so I will be building a new exhaust system.


    22. Member SauerKraut's Avatar
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      02-22-2011 11:00 AM #22


      looks good in there.
      DCI FOR LIFE
      vansquad - poppin your top, bitch!

      dmiw.

    23. 02-22-2011 08:09 PM #23
      I didn't think you would be able to get the motor in there without removing the panel above. The 72's have a brace that goes right across there. Different than the 73-79.

      I picked up a access panel and suround out of a 74 for mine. May go bigger though and put one in out of a vanagon.

      Keep at it and keep posting pictures.

      If only it would warm up here I would go out in the garage as well. Minus 15 c here this morning. Going to be at least another couple of weeks before I start in on mine.

      Craig

    24. 02-22-2011 08:48 PM #24
      Not that warm here either. Snowed all day today. I have a heated garage which helps alot.
      Now I can work on it.


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      02-22-2011 10:18 PM #25
      Damn man you weren't F'n around cutting that....looking good!

    26. Member SauerKraut's Avatar
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      02-22-2011 10:47 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by air skooled View Post
      Not that warm here either. Snowed all day today. I have a heated garage which helps alot.
      Now I can work on it.

      Now that's what I'm ****in talkin about!
      DCI FOR LIFE
      vansquad - poppin your top, bitch!

      dmiw.

    27. 02-23-2011 12:46 AM #27
      Thanks guys. Glad your happy Mike. I used a type 3 engine cover for the pattern.

      So the heater tube is now gone. Gotta start the radiator setup next.



      If you mess around with the stock mount locations it hugs the oil pan quite nicely.



      I will be using these mounts. A few years ago I swapped a Vortec V6 in a Toyota 4x4 pickup
      and these mounts were left over. I just can't bring myself to use the original mkII mounts. It is no longer supporting a fwd engine/trans combo and it just doesn't need all that. I have figured out where I can pickup the original block holes and will make the brackets tomorrow. Was also looking at the exhaust downpipe and it looks like I will be able to use it after all.


    28. Member SauerKraut's Avatar
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      02-23-2011 10:59 AM #28
      Is that trans in the background gold plated?
      DCI FOR LIFE
      vansquad - poppin your top, bitch!

      dmiw.

    29. 02-23-2011 02:28 PM #29
      sure.

    30. n00b
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      02-23-2011 03:34 PM #30
      Very good and nice job.

      I did the same kind of modification with my 76 Westfalia double deck with a Nissan 2.0l 4cl in line, also pretty easy job and good results. the only difference is that i had installed the radiator in the same engine area (back, left side) and remove the plate to have a grill installed. With the electric fan, it was good enough and avoid the front modification.

    31. 02-23-2011 07:49 PM #31
      You are making great progress! You were not kidding about getting it done in a week.

      When you say play around with the stock mount locations what do you mean? Redrill?

      Also very interested in whatever you come up with for mounts.

      What do you have in mind for a rad? I have one from a 2003 dodge durango that I plan to use with a small push pull electric fan.

      Craig

    32. 02-24-2011 12:30 AM #32
      No. Use the stock holes. No need to drill. Inboard on one side outboard on the other. Position the bar for the best fit.




      The exhaust is done. Just need to weld on on o2 sensor bung. Once I run it make sure there are no leaks, I'll blast it and powder coat it with 1000 degree powder coat.




      Mounts will be finished tomorrow. As far as radiators are concerned, you need to run a large radiator if you are going to run it underneath. I am using one from a '73-'86 full size chevy pickup with A/C. That should be the minimum size to run. Also running two fans from a ford taurus. Dime a dozen at the wreckers. A small single fan will not cut it.

    33. Semi-n00b
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      1973 westfakia, 1987 Wolfsburg weekender, 1988 Wolfsburg Weekender
      02-24-2011 02:31 PM #33
      Wow, excellent progress. I started my conversion months ago and it hasn't come that far yet. I am working on mine in a cramped space in my spare time and I don't know if my engine is ever going to be as clean looking as that one.

      I'm bolting a low-mileage 1.8L 1990 golf motor up to a Mexican transmission's bellhousing and starter and will be using the mexican bearer bar as well. I plan to put the rad on the nose housed inside a fake spare tire assembly. The mexican flywheel uses a 228mm clutch and pressure plate, same as a late-bay or vanagon.

      From what I can see, my mexican bellhousing will move the engine back about 2" further than my current transmission does.

      It has been a learning experience for sure.

      Question for you: I see you have capped off the heater outlet on the head. Are you planning to run heat inside the bus? If yes, where do you recommend splicing the heater into? I am planning to use the rear heater core from a vanagon, it'll fit perfectly up against the front of the bus and provide great heat for the dash and I can put a second unit under the rear seat for the passengers.

      Also, I can't help but think that with short pipes and such a small muffler the exhaust is going to be pretty loud. There's an email forum for inline4 conversions that suggests running dual pipes about 27" before joining them in order to get the best low end torque from the engine. I kept all the exhaust components from the donor car, it was whisper quiet but had a cat and two mufflers and about 4' of pipe between the header and the tailpipe. Your setup looks like it will fit a lot better.


      I've been documenting my own work so far, it's online here:
      http://www.pottsfamily.ca/inline4Engine/
      Last edited by westfakia; 02-24-2011 at 04:50 PM.

    34. 02-25-2011 12:55 AM #34
      westfakia

      Thanks. Yes I too am in a cramped space. Working on it 2-3 hrs a day. Planning on running a heater. I will detail it when I get to that point. I guess we will find out just how loud it is. The factory down pipe runs 15" before joining the two pipes together. There must be a reason for that. If you are going to run the radiator up front, this is a cool way to do it.

      Last edited by air skooled; 02-25-2011 at 01:03 AM.

    35. 02-25-2011 01:14 AM #35
      Here's the mounts. Fresh out of the powder coat oven. Need to get shorter bolts for the mounts. They are too long because the original setup is to run a mount above and below. I don't think that will be necessary in this case. Remember when you build your new mounts, lift the motor up about 1/4"-3/8". That way you get some support from them when you let it back down. I found the link for the mounts. http://www.advanceadapters.com/products/pn-713008-ns/







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