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    Thread: My governor is a retard.

    1. 03-28-2011 04:53 PM #1201
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      The issue is that my government is making bad decisions that are detrimental the environmental and scholastic well being of my state. Not only have they been untruthful in their desire to break the Wisconsin tradition of organized union labor but they are gambling with the well being of the environment. Both of these issues are detrimental to the well being of my future child and my friends and neighbors children. To me that is more important than possibly being out of state debt for a couple months.
      Please explain how teachers collectively bargaining for their benefits improves the quality of education.

    2. 03-28-2011 09:49 PM #1202
      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      Please explain how teachers collectively bargaining for their benefits improves the quality of education.
      I've wondered the same. I think it's because public school teachers have a coin slot in the back of their heads and if you stop putting in money, they stop teaching

    3. Member 22AudiQ's Avatar
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      03-28-2011 10:26 PM #1203
      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      Please explain how teachers collectively bargaining for their benefits improves the quality of education.
      Agreed. I went to a high school that sent kids to Harvard and Princeton while an hour away in Cleveland kids were more likely to end up in prison than graduate from high school. Our school spent about $9k per student while the inner city schools in Cleveland were spending about $23k per student. It's not about funding or money. It all comes down the socioeconomic backgrounds, not teacher pay and funding.

      I'm not anti-union necessarily, nor am I necessarily pro SB 5, but I'm beginning to lean 52% pro-SB 5.

      If this is really about the kids (and it isn't; it's about politics, union lobbying and partisanship, IMHO) we'd be wise to give them a future that isn't burdened by enormous debt. Even though it isn't really about the kids, we still owe it to them to give them a sustainable future.

      (Yeah, that includes you, too, Mr. Obama. )


      Food for thought: if it's "unfair" to teachers to take away collective bargaining, why isn't it unfair to overburden the taxpayers of OH and WI?

    4. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 06:01 AM #1204
      Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
      I've wondered the same. I think it's because public school teachers have a coin slot in the back of their heads and if you stop putting in money, they stop teaching
      Only in Wisconsin. We voted to remove that coin slot here in SC.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    5. Banned patrikman's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 11:37 AM #1205
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      Maybe I'm doing it wrong but don't you need to have friends to participate in social networking?
      Some of us get out in the real world and make friends the old fashioned way instead of sitting around waiting to be poked or tweeted to.

      Quote Originally Posted by Doedrums View Post
      Ouch, that was harsh.
      see above

      Quote Originally Posted by pentaxshooter View Post
      see above pt. 2

      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      Please explain how teachers collectively bargaining for their benefits improves the quality of education.
      Quote Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
      I've wondered the same. I think it's because public school teachers have a coin slot in the back of their heads and if you stop putting in money, they stop teaching



      Nowhere did I claim that collective bargaining rights improved education. The point you guys are missing here is that it is a fiscal issue through and through. Not only did he strip bargaining rights
      ( I am neither pro or anti union..it has been discussed in previous pages) he stripped a very large amount of funding that will directly cost teachers their jobs due to budget cuts.

      For example:
      My brother teaches on a small island a few hours north of here, and has done so for about 35 years. He teaches all of the math and science for K-12 on this island. A few weeks ago they had 12 teachers, today they have 6 because of the recent budget "enhancements."

      If you can explain to me exactly how substantially cutting school funding (materials, staff, and incidentals) will not affect the children's education now and in the future, then you win. The schools in WI (like many other states regardless of public worker specifics) have been dealing with near constant budget cuts for years already, they are already operating on bare minimum funding for staff and materials. A further reduction can only hinder the progression of these young people. As a parent if you aren't bothered by this, then maybe you should reevaluate your role as a parent first and as a breadwinner second.


      If all you wish to come here and sling dirt, at least familiarize yourself with specific WI issues. This thread is not a background check for me nor it is a dumping site for all of your vague political ideals. I would like to see this thread stay open as most of you have been civilized thus far.

    6. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 11:43 AM #1206
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      If you can explain to me exactly how substantially cutting school funding (materials, staff, and incidentals) will not affect the children's education now and in the future, then you win.
      A number of different people have pointed out that spending per student has nearly zero relation to sucess in students. Yeah, I'd like every kid to have a laptop, an iPad, and a gold plated pencil sharpener too, but really, to learn all you need is books, a chalkboard, paper, pencil, and a teacher. It seems as though most teachers talk about quality of education, but are really worried about quantity into pocket(book.)

    7. Member Doedrums's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 11:47 AM #1207
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Some of us get out in the real world and make friends the old fashioned way instead of sitting around waiting to be poked or tweeted to.



      see above
      You're right. That is why I don't do Facebook, Twitter or any other "social" networking crap. I have a real life not a virtual one.
      And if love remains, though everything is lost, we will pay the price but will not count the cost. -Neil Peart
      All hands, abandon ship!! Repeat, all hands abandon ship!!!!!
      I'm addicted to track!
      I'll stop "Hatin'" when YOU stop acting like a jackass.

    8. Banned patrikman's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 11:49 AM #1208
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Maybe quoting it accurately would help you understand it.
      Oops, my bad I was trying to do schoolwork and be nonproductive at the same time.

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      You protest that you want to discuss the issues, but then become resentful when people discuss them becuase you do not meet unanimous agreement.
      I don’t protest anything other than my government and the mistreating of my state’s citizen’s, please stop making inferences regarding my goals.

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      You run from questions, then claim to answer them candidly.
      For the last 35 pages I have done my best to take on all comers and answer as many questions as I can truthfully and honestly. You can not honestly expect me to take on you and all of your News & Politics Forum buddies that just happened to have been here before me.

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      You protest about not having time to asnwer questions about what you write, then post copiously.
      Again, I don’t protest anything other than my government and the mistreating of my state’s citizen’s, please stop making inferences regarding my goals. Posting copiously? Should I ignore the rest of this vast forum because you and the teabaggers came up wih 10 more loaded questions today? Probably not.

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      You accuse me of being a spelling nazi even though I've not corrected your spelling, then protest that I am attacking you personally.
      You did not correct me, but you were very quick to point out my haphazard mistake and attempt to spin it to fit your argument.

      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Instead, there are people here who insist on unfounded personal attacks and insults instead of the real issues.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      I expect my funding from the Koch brothers to be here shortly.

      ^Just one example….

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile
      then protest that I am attacking you personally.
      Again no prostesting here..

      When you start making comments regarding my intelligence, personal lifestyle, etc etc etc then yes, those are personal attacks. This thread was intended to discuss my state government. Somehow, through the sheer will of threadjacking and mudslinging I have been put on trial. All of my public and personal info, my posts, my purchases, my history, and my family have been questioned. I have dilligently and maturely explained and/or discussed as much eprsonal info as I feel comfortable with.


      If you guys want to talk about the issues without attacking me or being disrespectful I would be more than happy to continue int his direction. I will not bullied and pushed aroung anymore. The countless attempts at breaking my character and demeanor have all been in vain.

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      See a theme yet?
      Yes, you take yourself way to seriously. Following me around day in and day out, watching where I post and how much just so you can pass judgment on me because I don’t have time to answer to YOU. What exactly do you do all day that you have the time to be hunched over in your little cubicle and harass people on the internet? Do you not have a family or a job to go home ? I bet if I was willing to put in the hours you would be so petty as to argue with me all day and all night. If you want to screw me, you are going to have to buy me a drink first.

    9. Banned patrikman's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 11:56 AM #1209
      This is why I don't have time to answer all of your questions. I type out one reply and two questions pop up in it's place. If I miss your question, I am not dodging you.


      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      A number of different people have pointed out that spending per student has nearly zero relation to sucess in students. Yeah, I'd like every kid to have a laptop, an iPad, and a gold plated pencil sharpener too, but really, to learn all you need is books, a chalkboard, paper, pencil, and a teacher. It seems as though most teachers talk about quality of education, but are really worried about quantity into pocket(book.)
      Teachers have an extremely low budget for learning aids and simple things from art supplies to field trips. Sure, you can tell yourself you don't need these items. But, when I was in school I was always an art nerd and that had a large influence on how I deal with stress as a teen. And who the **** doesn't like field trips? If not you deserve to be home schooled.

      Quote Originally Posted by Doedrums View Post
      You're right. That is why I don't do Facebook, Twitter or any other "social" networking crap. I have a real life not a virtual one.
      You are taking this too seriously. I use this website to pass time and educate myself, not to keep track of that long lost high school flame and who she took fish lips pics with at the bar last weekend. Ok, now I am 7 min. late for class, BRB to argue some more on my lunch.

    10. Member Doedrums's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 11:59 AM #1210
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      You are taking this too seriously. I use this website to pass time and educate myself, not to keep track of that long lost high school flame and who she took fish lips pics with at the bar last weekend.
      Not really. The Vortex is just a time waster for me. I don't put too much stock in what people say on here.
      And if love remains, though everything is lost, we will pay the price but will not count the cost. -Neil Peart
      All hands, abandon ship!! Repeat, all hands abandon ship!!!!!
      I'm addicted to track!
      I'll stop "Hatin'" when YOU stop acting like a jackass.

    11. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 12:01 PM #1211
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Some of us get out in the real world and make friends the old fashioned way instead of sitting around waiting to be poked or tweeted to.
      Social networking is extremely useful to figure out where to go for happy hour and what ski lift I'm going to start at. The technology is there to use.

    12. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 12:02 PM #1212
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Teachers have an extremely low budget for learning aids and simple things from art supplies to field trips. Sure, you can tell yourself you don't need these items. But, when I was in school I was always an art nerd and that had a large influence on how I deal with stress as a teen. And who the **** doesn't like field trips? If not you deserve to be home schooled.
      I understand that, and I sympathize. But you know what? It's a tough economy, and a lot of people are trying to get by with less than they are used to. And if that means fewer art supplies and field trips, and the school has pare back and only concentrate on the 4 Rs, well, that's a lesson junior is just going to have to learn.

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      03-29-2011 12:05 PM #1213
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      For the last 35 pages I have done my best to take on all comers and answer as many questions as I can truthfully and honestly. You can not honestly expect me to take on you and all of your News & Politics Forum buddies that just happened to have been here before me.
      Pat..... Two people from the News & Politics forum have asked you questions in this
      thread, directly.

      Two. (let that number sink in)

      zukiphile & myself.


      Edit - Make that three. Seabird asked you about your fake Scott Walker account.
      Last edited by 2.FOH!!; 03-29-2011 at 03:39 PM.
      We are JIMP

    14. 03-29-2011 12:07 PM #1214
      Quote Originally Posted by Blossom
      Yes, you take yourself way to seriously.
      Yet,

      Quote Originally Posted by Fiona
      When you start making comments regarding my intelligence, personal lifestyle, etc etc etc then yes, those are personal attacks. This thread was intended to discuss my state government. Somehow, through the sheer will of threadjacking and mudslinging I have been put on trial. All of my public and personal info, my posts, my purchases, my history, and my family have been questioned. I have dilligently and maturely explained and/or discussed as much eprsonal info as I feel comfortable with.


      If you guys want to talk about the issues without attacking me or being disrespectful I would be more than happy to continue int his direction. I will not bullied and pushed aroung anymore. The countless attempts at breaking my character and demeanor have all been in vain.
      Unofficial Feelings Manager for OT. http://www.npboards.com/index.php

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    15. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 12:11 PM #1215
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Teachers have an extremely low budget for learning aids and simple things from art supplies to field trips. Sure, you can tell yourself you don't need these items. But, when I was in school I was always an art nerd and that had a large influence on how I deal with stress as a teen. And who the **** doesn't like field trips? If not you deserve to be home schooled.
      I think I got a far better education in an environment that had virtually no "learning aids" at all. Students have books, paper, and pencils. Teacher has blackboard and chalk.

      The slacker teachers taught social studies and showed movies all the time rather than prep a real lesson and actually teach something. Field trips are secret code for having the entire day off. From the "internet ebonics" I see every day, the country would be far better off going back to the basics. Arithmetic and math. Reading and vocabulary. Writing coherent paragraphs. Spelling and grammar. Public speaking and being able to express yourself in front of a group. You don't need elementary school phys ed teachers. Just go outside and play. You don't need middle school guidance counsellors. If you're interested, things like art & music should be extra-carricular activites.

      If you run the schools that way, the costs go way down and the students actually are given the skills necessary to be competetive in the 21st century global economy.

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      03-29-2011 12:41 PM #1216
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      You can not honestly expect me to take on you and all of your News & Politics Forum buddies that just happened to have been here before me.
      I'm not in the N&P forums, actually most in here are not over there either.

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      03-29-2011 03:30 PM #1217
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I'm not in the N&P forums, actually most in here are not over there either.
      It's a vast right wing conspiracy!!
      And if love remains, though everything is lost, we will pay the price but will not count the cost. -Neil Peart
      All hands, abandon ship!! Repeat, all hands abandon ship!!!!!
      I'm addicted to track!
      I'll stop "Hatin'" when YOU stop acting like a jackass.

    18. 03-29-2011 03:39 PM #1218
      Quote Originally Posted by Doedrums View Post
      It's a vast right wing conspiracy!!
      No, it's THE vast right wing conspiracy!! There is only one, and we haven't seen you at the last two meetings. Last week, 2.FOH! made Dick Cheney laugh so hard a Cheezit flew out of his nose. Watching 2.FOH! catch some birdshot in the face just made it pants pissingly funny.
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    19. Member Doedrums's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 03:53 PM #1219
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      No, it's THE vast right wing conspiracy!! There is only one, and we haven't seen you at the last two meetings. Last week, 2.FOH! made Dick Cheney laugh so hard a Cheezit flew out of his nose. Watching 2.FOH! catch some birdshot in the face just made it pants pissingly funny.
      Yes, you're right. I've been slacking off and not doing my part to put people out of work, take away their access to health care, ship jobs overseas, destroy education and deny people basic freedoms that is necessary to advance THE vast right wing conspiracy. I fail.
      And if love remains, though everything is lost, we will pay the price but will not count the cost. -Neil Peart
      All hands, abandon ship!! Repeat, all hands abandon ship!!!!!
      I'm addicted to track!
      I'll stop "Hatin'" when YOU stop acting like a jackass.

    20. 03-29-2011 03:59 PM #1220
      Quote Originally Posted by Doedrums View Post
      Yes, you're right. I've been slacking off and not doing my part to put people out of work, take away their access to health care, ship jobs overseas, destroy education and deny people basic freedoms that is necessary to advance THE vast right wing conspiracy. I fail.
      Well, it's not like they're going to screw themselves*.



















      *Unions excepted.
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    21. Banned patrikman's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 05:02 PM #1221
      Quote Originally Posted by Doedrums View Post
      Not really. The Vortex is just a time waster for me. I don't put too much stock in what people say on here.
      I try not to either.

      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      Social networking is extremely useful to figure out where to go for happy hour and what ski lift I'm going to start at. The technology is there to use.
      I never said it wasn't, I just don't think it suits my needs right now.

      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I understand that, and I sympathize. But you know what? It's a tough economy, and a lot of people are trying to get by with less than they are used to. And if that means fewer art supplies and field trips, and the school has pare back and only concentrate on the 4 Rs, well, that's a lesson junior is just going to have to learn.
      I agree, times are tough. Basics are necessities and that is fine, field trips and things aren't essential. Reducing the amount of faculty to me is the worst thing they can do. Schools are already underfunded and understaffed. Where will it stop? No public schools?

      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      I think I got a far better education in an environment that had virtually no "learning aids" at all. Students have books, paper, and pencils. Teacher has blackboard and chalk.

      If you run the schools that way, the costs go way down and the students actually are given the skills necessary to be competetive in the 21st century global economy.
      My basic education, was sparse also but wse relished the few treats and surprises we had. I loved field trips, I loved having a guest orchestra, etc etc etc. I didn't need them, but it was sure nice having them.

      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I'm not in the N&P forums, actually most in here are not over there either.
      Never said you were, I know you from my homebrew thread...I quite like you actually. You have been kind and I appreciate that.

      I was referring to the handfull of people that share usernames exactly between the forums that have been involved repeatedly in the discussion against me. I am sure there are few others that are on both but, those jump right out at me.

    22. Banned patrikman's Avatar
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      03-29-2011 05:04 PM #1222
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Yet,
      This is the last time I ask you to stop with the names and general smug disrespect.

    23. 03-29-2011 05:21 PM #1223
      So serious.

      Quote Originally Posted by Brittany
      This is the last time I ask you to stop with the names and general smug disrespect.
      Good.
      Last edited by zukiphile; 03-29-2011 at 05:24 PM.
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    24. 03-30-2011 09:29 PM #1224
      Patrikman,

      Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.

      You claim they are underfunded.

      Reconcile those points.

    25. Banned patrikman's Avatar
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      03-31-2011 12:19 AM #1225
      Quote Originally Posted by DIAF View Post
      Patrikman,

      Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.

      You claim they are underfunded.

      Reconcile those points.
      Please provide a source so we can compare how much per pupil alongside students from other areas in the midwest. This has been brought up before in this thread and each time I asked for numbers for comparison and it was met with just another question from somebody regarding something else.

      You make it seem like spending money on schools is a bad idea. Schools in every city and state are hurting, it isn't just Wisconsin. Teachers here are losing jobs directly due to budget cuts and I have firsthand experience to attest to this fact.

      Thank you for being polite and straightforward, it is much appreciated.
      Last edited by patrikman; 03-31-2011 at 12:23 AM.

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