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    Thread: Traction control on snow - do you bother?

    1. Member chrisell's Avatar
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      02-24-2011 08:48 PM #1
      Just wondering how many of you bother with traction control on packed snow or slushy roads? I've had it turned off all winter because its behaviour was amusing but unpredictable. I even had it spin me once when it re-applied the power mid corner :-)
      The VW system doesn't seem very sophisticated. It seems just like the one on my old Honda that simply cuts engine power when it detects slip rather than doing proper torque vectoring. I reckon it's one of those last minute additions that was bolted on because of some silly legislation.

    2. Member Lordboost's Avatar
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      02-24-2011 09:21 PM #2
      do you have 4motion or FWD?
      Myke

    3. Junior Member Adrenalyne's Avatar
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      02-24-2011 10:29 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by chrisell View Post
      Just wondering how many of you bother with traction control on packed snow or slushy roads? I've had it turned off all winter because its behaviour was amusing but unpredictable. I even had it spin me once when it re-applied the power mid corner :-)
      The VW system doesn't seem very sophisticated. It seems just like the one on my old Honda that simply cuts engine power when it detects slip rather than doing proper torque vectoring. I reckon it's one of those last minute additions that was bolted on because of some silly legislation.
      Well if it isn't sophisticate! I wonder how this Tiguan 4 motion get up speed full power (When a floor it down!) on snow like if it was on asphalt without shear or spin (No sign of loosing traction!) And I could continue with the handling in curve ... that's another very nice story! ;-)

      What make you say that? What you're describing is not a 4motion pack!

    4. Member chrisell's Avatar
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      02-25-2011 01:33 AM #4
      I have 4motion.
      It sort of works in a straight line. It keeps you relatively straight but obviously its nothing like accelerating in the dry. You can feel the power cutting in and out. Even with the 4motion it's ridiculously easy to overcome the traction control on packed snow. More sophisticated systems don't simply cut the ignition or limit the throttle. They adjust the diffs to send torque to the wheel or wheels with the best grip too. The VW system seems to interrupt the ignition and the pronounced on-off-on-off feeling is very unnerving. Accelerate-coast-accelerate-coast isnt the best way to drive on snow :-) That's why I keep it off. I prefer the throttle to react to my input directly even if the wheels are spinning. Then I can lift off when I want.
      I've found most low end traction control systems react the same way. You have to go up a lot in price to get one that's even close to competent on snow.

    5. Member MistaRhoi's Avatar
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      02-25-2011 02:11 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by chrisell View Post
      I have 4motion.
      It sort of works in a straight line. It keeps you relatively straight but obviously its nothing like accelerating in the dry. You can feel the power cutting in and out. Even with the 4motion it's ridiculously easy to overcome the traction control on packed snow. More sophisticated systems don't simply cut the ignition or limit the throttle. They adjust the diffs to send torque to the wheel or wheels with the best grip too. The VW system seems to interrupt the ignition and the pronounced on-off-on-off feeling is very unnerving. Accelerate-coast-accelerate-coast isnt the best way to drive on snow :-) That's why I keep it off. I prefer the throttle to react to my input directly even if the wheels are spinning. Then I can lift off when I want.
      I've found most low end traction control systems react the same way. You have to go up a lot in price to get one that's even close to competent on snow.
      Yeah, the Tiguan's 4Motion only changes the power distribution between the front and back wheels, not side to side. It only limits slip side to side using the brakes. I really wished they would have programmed the Tig with different mode settings for various terrains like the Land Rover LR2 and descent control. Speaking of, I think the LR2 is the next cheapest option for an AWD car with better traction control since it does have a mode to compensate for slippin on ice or snow. They say the base price is $36k, but my friend got a new, well equipped one off the lot for $33k. Comprable to a well equipped Tig.

      I really wish they sold aftermarket Haldex controllers that had off-road settings rather than the racing modes found on the one they advertise on the forum here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-Units-On-Sale I think it would be way more suitable for the Tig's set up and they wouldn't have to try as hard to sell them as they do with their weekly 'bump'.

      Just for fun, here's my car accelerating on a big patch of ice WITH traction control engaged: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDXbfUxNVSk&hd=1
      I <3 VW 4Motion & OOOO quattro
      Current: 2010 VW Tiguan 2.0T Wolfsburg, Candy White
      Past: 2007 Audi A3 2.0T S-Line, Jet Black

    6. Junior Member Adrenalyne's Avatar
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      02-25-2011 09:26 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by chrisell View Post
      The VW system seems to interrupt the ignition and the pronounced on-off-on-off feeling is very unnerving. Accelerate-coast-accelerate-coast isnt the best way to drive on snow :-) That's why I keep it off. I prefer the throttle to react to my input directly even if the wheels are spinning. Then I can lift off when I want.
      I've found most low end traction control systems react the same way. You have to go up a lot in price to get one that's even close to competent on snow.
      I didn't feel this "on-off ..." effect like you say since 2 years! (I'll check this on my next slip test!) And oviously it's very easy to spin the tig right on ice but if you do have at least one wheel with traction ... you wont spin! Anyway in my case it's the way it happen! For an all around package it's fine and very good with me, but for pure offroad i'll agree with MistaRhoi. That's where the offroad package offered in europe and NZ could be interesting (Don't know much about it)

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      02-25-2011 10:21 AM #7
      The Tig is definitely not a land rover and it is not an off road vehicle with extra differentials. I find what it does do, it does quite well. It might not be as sophisticated and something more expensive, but I am happy with what it does do. If you read the VW propaganda, they call it anti-slip regulation (ASR), and yes one of its functions is to cut power. it clearly states that in the manual. Yes, if you hammer the pedal, things will go wonky, but if you are snow, you should not be trying to accelerate like on pavement. I find that if you drive for the conditions, it behaves respectably.

    8. Member chrisell's Avatar
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      02-25-2011 12:25 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by shawng View Post
      The Tig is definitely not a land rover and it is not an off road vehicle with extra differentials. I find what it does do, it does quite well. It might not be as sophisticated and something more expensive, but I am happy with what it does do. If you read the VW propaganda, they call it anti-slip regulation (ASR), and yes one of its functions is to cut power. it clearly states that in the manual. Yes, if you hammer the pedal, things will go wonky, but if you are snow, you should not be trying to accelerate like on pavement. I find that if you drive for the conditions, it behaves respectably.
      I suppose.
      I just found it disconcerting that the on/off effect was so pronounced when trying to do something a bit more spirited than the 20mph morning grind.
      I went and read up on the tech they used, with the ABS system braking certain wheels for stability control, the engine management moderating the ignition and the electronic diff locks. I was surprised - I guess this is quite a sophisticated system after all. It just doesn't "feel" like it when you detect it coming and off like it does.

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      02-25-2011 02:10 PM #9
      There are a lot of sensors doing a lot of stuff and I guess the word sophisticated means different things to different people. Keep in mind the EDL is just the ABS modulating the brakes on the spinning wheel to transfer power over to the other wheel. This part is easily overcome by more pedal. So agreed, we don't have a limited slip or locking differential front or back, both are open.

      The only time i hated ASR was on my Rabbit in deep snow, when you want to spin and accelerate and it says sorry, cutting power. That is when you turn it off. On the other hand if you are gentle, it will reduce wheel spin and get you through most stuff. Compared to our older Golf with nothing ASR does get you through a whole lot more crap.

    10. Member Iceman18T's Avatar
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      02-26-2011 10:18 AM #10
      TC can be so invasive especially when trying to gain traction in the snow. Better to have spin and let the snow tires do their job.
      Though ESP can be a life saver if the back end tries to come around on you especially since you cannot use the e-brake to correct it...fugging electric e-brake garbage.

    11. Member NZTIGUAN's Avatar
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      02-27-2011 04:12 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by chrisell View Post
      Just wondering how many of you bother with traction control on packed snow or slushy roads? I've had it turned off all winter because its behaviour was amusing but unpredictable. I even had it spin me once when it re-applied the power mid corner :-)
      The VW system doesn't seem very sophisticated. It seems just like the one on my old Honda that simply cuts engine power when it detects slip rather than doing proper torque vectoring. I reckon it's one of those last minute additions that was bolted on because of some silly legislation.
      I hate to tell you but it's vastly more intelligent than you think, it's even got you totally fooled into believing it's OFF when it's NOT, cos as soon as you go over a set speed (it's around 20mph) it switches itself back ON anyway !!

      The few of us that go off-road in our Tigs are well used to its abilities and always turn it off at low speed when we don't want it to override our own inputs, BUT most of us have the full off-road electronics factory fitted as well. Switching it OFF can be useful for people who are having trouble getting moving in the snow as it will allow some wheel spin to clear the treads and cut through to more "grippy" terrain below.
      Derek
      Alexandra New Zealand
      Second Tig, 2013, TDi, Auto, night blue, park assist 2, auto lights and wipers, RCD510, fogs, tow pack
      http://www.alexandra.co.nz/

    12. Member chrisell's Avatar
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      02-27-2011 04:40 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by NZTIGUAN View Post
      I hate to tell you but it's vastly more intelligent than you think, it's even got you totally fooled into believing it's OFF when it's NOT, cos as soon as you go over a set speed (it's around 20mph) it switches itself back ON anyway !!

      Switching it OFF can be useful for people who are having trouble getting moving in the snow as it will allow some wheel spin to clear the treads and cut through to more "grippy" terrain below.
      That's the problem I always have in snow - no way to 'dig in'. I didn't know it turned itself back on though. That's insidious and unnecessary

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