Ar-15 for dummies

[Obin Robinson]

What do you guys say about UTG? I know they are not a good brand, but how crappy can they make a quad rail? Unless its made of plastic I don't see it being an issue. Reason I ask is I found one on the cheap $60. I basically just want a quad rail to get me started with my rifle, but I don't want to have to drop over $100.

I had a Knight RAS on my M16A2. It was solidly built and extremely durable. I would first ask why you need a quad rail to begin with? It's better to save your money for a solid piece rather than to go cheap and get something you will later regret.

obin

[RiceIsntNice]

The "el cheapo" rails have fitment issues on some guns, are either wayyy too heavy, or extremely thin and have a tendancy to brake at the worst times. Obin is right, save up and get a quality rail (if you really need one) the only "cheap" forearm i'd put on is the magpul moe, this allows you to attatch tidbits of rail sections where you want them. If you are dead set on a conventional quad rail, go with knight's, daniel defense(my personal pref.), troy trx, or Midwest industries(slightly lower quality but cheaper)...look for a rail that's free floating, and most importantly one that's light..all those ounces add up on a rifle. Go to bravocompanyusa.com pretty much everything they sell there is of decent quality...stay away from yhm though, that'd be the low quality stuff.

[gtguard]

What do you guys say about UTG? I know they are not a good brand, but how crappy can they make a quad rail? Unless its made of plastic I don't see it being an issue. Reason I ask is I found one on the cheap $60. I basically just want a quad rail to get me started with my rifle, but I don't want to have to drop over $100.

I have a utg in my bushmaster and it is well built and was really easy to install

[Elbows]

Let's put it this way...for anything beyond creating YouTube videos in a quarry somewhere...UTG should be avoided. They're a plague on AKs. You know how UTG started? Airsoft accessories. As Airsoft guns got more realistic, they started making real firearms accessories.

I've got one thing from UTG, a $17 bipod which I use for sighting in on railed rifles. It's pretty hard to f-up a bipod, and I sure as hell wasn't going to invest in serious money for 20 minutes worth of use.

All firearms questions come down to this: what will you use it for?

[00boraslow]

All firearms questions come down to this: what will you use it for?

I use all of my firearms for Delta Team Special Forces Elite Tactical Training. I need to be prepared for the Zombie Apocalypse.

[Elbows]

Oh, sh_t...well then you better get everything made my Troy and Knights Armament...NOTHING LESS WILL SUFFICE.

[00boraslow]

Oh, sh_t...well then you better get everything made my Troy and Knights Armament...NOTHING LESS WILL SUFFICE.

Surprisingly, I do not own one KAC item. I do own some Troy BUIS.

[Gtiupb2002]

Let's put it this way...for anything beyond creating YouTube videos in a quarry somewhere...UTG should be avoided. They're a plague on AKs. You know how UTG started? Airsoft accessories. As Airsoft guns got more realistic, they started making real firearms accessories.

I've got one thing from UTG, a $17 bipod which I use for sighting in on railed rifles. It's pretty hard to f-up a bipod, and I sure as hell wasn't going to invest in serious money for 20 minutes worth of use.

All firearms questions come down to this: what will you use it for?

I don't want to put "cheap" parts but I wouldn't think you could fk up a quad rail that bad. If its mad of the same chit. But I will keep my eye out for some used goods.

Why free floating?

[Elbows]

free-float simply means that the handguard makes no contact with the barrel (where a normal M16 style handguard clamps into the front sight base etc.).

The fewer things you have touching your barrel, the less you're interfering with its natural movement. In simplest terms, if you're holding a handguard which is holding onto the barrel, you're pushing or pulling (however slightly and unconsciously) on the barrel itself while aiming and firing the rifle.

The loss of accuracy is questionable, and can likely be measured in 1/10ths of an inch...but regardless when available, people prefer free-floated rail systems.

[Gtiupb2002]

free-float simply means that the handguard makes no contact with the barrel (where a normal M16 style handguard clamps into the front sight base etc.).

The fewer things you have touching your barrel, the less you're interfering with its natural movement. In simplest terms, if you're holding a handguard which is holding onto the barrel, you're pushing or pulling (however slightly and unconsciously) on the barrel itself while aiming and firing the rifle.

The loss of accuracy is questionable, and can likely be measured in 1/10ths of an inch...but regardless when available, people prefer free-floated rail systems.

Ahhh makes sense. Good to know!

[gtguard]

Honestly I got the utg because I didn't want to mess around with removing the front sight, etc to add a free float rail, and the Troy drop in rail is about twice as much as the utg. Buy ammo with the savings.

[Obin Robinson]

Take a look at what I just found on the sample list:

http://www.samplelist.com/Knights-Ar...O-C-P2955.aspx


Model: P/N: 98065 NSN: 1005-01-452-6771
•Manufactured by: Knight's Armament Company
$99.95


That's a heck of a deal on a high quality component.

obin

[gtguard]

Wow, that is pretty good.

[VEEDUB_FAZEVR6]

Whats your input on an AR-15 chambered in 7.62x39? (DPMS)

These are the reasons why I was considering the 7.62x39 AR over a .223/5.56NATO AR:

-For bulk, 7.62x39 ammo is cheaper than 5.56NATO.
-bigger round
-7.62x39 AR is different.

I know a lot of people will probably say "Cool, but why?"

Well, after some thought, Why not?

Purpose for the rifle, battle? zombies? who knows.

[Elbows]

Don't bother. Just get an AK. You can get a quality Arsenal SAIGA for a very reasonable price (or an InterArms). Despite the movies you've seen or internet threads you've read - a quality AK is an accurate reliable rifle.

Don't buy an AK in 5.56, and don't buy an AR in 7.62x39. I had an AR upper in 5.45x39 and I sold that too --- there is no 100% reliable 5.45x39 AR (though some are fine for practice/range work). You can have a quality AK, mags, and a box of ammo for under a grand.

[VEEDUB_FAZEVR6]

Don't bother. Just get an AK.

Idk why, maybe its me, but I think AK's are fugly.


Thanks for clearing it up on the "no-no's" of 5.56 AK's & 7.62x39 AR's. People seemed pretty happy with them, but I guess they're looked down upon.

[Elbows]

I know some people will harp on me for saying it - but the AR is not a fantastic rifle system. It started as a mediocre design and has thankfully been painfully improved along time. It's been a long bumpy road getting the rifle to properly fire it's own caliber .223/5.56, let alone others. Short of KAC, most companies make AK-chambered ARs just "because" and their goal is only to reach another small part of the market.

I'd just be weary of proprietary parts (magazines, bolt carriers, bolts, barrels, chambers etc.) Because there is no mil-spec or industry standard for guns like this, they're just making stuff up. If you want to grab one for fun, go for it - but I promise you it'll be no more accurate, and likely less reliable than a proper built AK. If you're concerned about looks, I suggest looking at a 7.62x39 AR again...

[ultimate steve]

Sorry if this is an inactive thread, but I just bought a stag model 2t ar15. Thought id Chime in since
I've been researching AR's the last few months and seem to have the same budget as you. I started out looking at stag, and after comparing them to everything else in their price range, wound up right back where I began, with stag. I wound up going with the model 2t which comes with a samson free float quad rail and a really nice A.R.M.S. rear flip up sight. It comes with a standard a2 front sight, but I ordered mine with a railed gas block instead so I can mount a flip up sight. The model 2t is $1150, compared to the model 2 (standard m4 plastic handguards, and a lower quality rear sight $950) if you're going to add a quad rail, its going to cost at least $150 for a decent one. So that's why I went that route as the samson star c quad rail that it comes with retails at 260ish. I also added the plus package for an extra 100 bucks which upgrades the barrel steel to 4150 with a 1/7 twist, m16 bolt, an extra mag, more HP and mpi testing on the bolt carrier group and barrel, and a few other details I forgot what they were. Just seemed like a lot for not much more loot. There's a chart online somewhere, if you Google "ar 15 chart" you should find it, that compares the different manufacturers in a number of categories, judging them by the quality of steel used, the kind of testing of materials they go through, and various other categories, and the stag with plus package was right on par with colt and bcm and some other higher end companies, while coming in at an affordable price point. Another thing I liked about stag is they're based in CT and I'm in NY and they have a lifetime warranty. Also all of their parts are machined in house so they have complete control over quality control. I didn't read the whole thread, so if it hast been suggested yet, check out stag arms.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

[SpclAgentD]

Gonna revive this thread...

Any takes on GPUs (Gas Piston Uppers) for AR's? I haven't seen any mention about these.

Being in California, I have more restrictions on my AR platform than others, so I plan on building one (also helps me learn about the rifle in the process). It'd be nice if I could just buy a Colt 6920 or a DD Carbine, but we can't get them here (at least not without the bullet button or whatnots).

[NoDubJustYet]

Gonna revive this thread...

Any takes on GPUs (Gas Piston Uppers) for AR's? I haven't seen any mention about these.

Being in California, I have more restrictions on my AR platform than others, so I plan on building one (also helps me learn about the rifle in the process). It'd be nice if I could just buy a Colt 6920 or a DD Carbine, but we can't get them here (at least not without the bullet button or whatnots).

I've read good things about Adams Arms... They make conversion kits as well as complete uppers.

Once I'm back CONUS I plan on building an SBR using an 11.5" Adams piston upper.

[TurboWraith]

I've read good things about Adams Arms... They make conversion kits as well as complete uppers.

Once I'm back CONUS I plan on building an SBR using an 11.5" Adams piston upper.

Just my opinion, stay away from the conversion kit stuff. If you want a piston gun, the lwrc and ruger are solid rifles. There are some other makes out there as well, but everything I've read is pitting a piston retrofit kit on a DI gun is generally a bad deal all around. Not to mention a lot of money for more weight on the muzzle and no real measurable reliability gain.

[Elbows]

Lots of guys rave about Adams Arms conversion kits - but as Wraith said, if you're going to get a piston gun - buy a piston gun. Having been an LWRC owner, and watching them grow/develop their product line, they (and I) can tell you there are a ton of small adjustments/changes made to make the piston gun run perfectly.

Will an Adams Arms conversion kit work - absolutely, but I'm not sure what to expect beyond the 5K round count etc.

Buy a good DI gun, or a good piston gun...don't buy a cheapo/crap version of either. I'll be the first to tell you - unless you're using it for work or war, you don't "need" a piston gun. For the average range jockey, the longer-lasting parts, cleaner operation, better can use, etc. are not really as necessary.

If you're going to get a piston gun, I'd definitely recommend LWRC - they're the best on the market right now, hands down. But I'd personally be just as happy with a Bravo Company rifle (maybe I'd still stick in an LWRC ACB/EFG )

[Elbows]

(come on, who doesn't want this!?)

[img][/img]

[dj age one]

Take a look at what I just found on the sample list:

http://www.samplelist.com/Knights-Ar...O-C-P2955.aspx


Model: P/N: 98065 NSN: 1005-01-452-6771
•Manufactured by: Knight's Armament Company
$99.95


That's a heck of a deal on a high quality component.

obin

I actually bought this same hand guard about a month and a half ago. found it while searching around for hand guards for my dissipater project. it was pretty rough, scratched up and stuff but I didn't mind because I was alumahyding it brown anyway.

I decided, that due to ammo prices I would build it in 5.54x39.. like has been mentioned here its best to spend as much time shooting as possible, when the ammo is cheap its even better. though I've had some teething issues with this round I'm sure I'll have it up and running 100% in no time (I get a light strike about every 10-15 rounds other then that its perfect)




its a bit of a Harliquin right now since its on my dpms lower. I'll be assembling a matching lower with matching furniture for it pretty soon though. (though I kinda like it like this, if only it were more reliable with my Jard trigger, stupid hard primers)

[Elbows]

DJ - if you're having light strikes in your 5.45x39 it's due to the stiff primers on Russian ammo. My LWRC 5.45x39 upper was shipped with a Wolf extra strength hammer spring. This ensures a harder hit on the round, and guarantee primer ignition. Try that out.

I got rid of my 5.45x39 upper before I even shot it because everyone else was having magazine feed issues with them unfortunately.

[Power5]

(come on, who doesn't want this!?)

[img][/img]

Damn, thats almost able to be used for CCW. May want to wear some gloves on your off hand.

[NoDubJustYet]

I don't see anything wrong with a complete piston upper... What's the difference in buying a complete upper from Adams, LWRC, POF, SIG, or any other company that builds a piston upper?

I don't see how buying a complete piston upper from Adams and using your own custom built lower is a problem? I don't want the true conversion kit that involves taking a DI upper and converting it.

I want this:

Was it on Deadliest Warrior? No. But I'm okay with that.

[HighFructoseCornSyrp]

Don't bother. Just get an AK. You can get a quality Arsenal SAIGA for a very reasonable price (or an InterArms). Despite the movies you've seen or internet threads you've read - a quality AK is an accurate reliable rifle.

Don't buy an AK in 5.56, and don't buy an AR in 7.62x39. I had an AR upper in 5.45x39 and I sold that too --- there is no 100% reliable 5.45x39 AR (though some are fine for practice/range work). You can have a quality AK, mags, and a box of ammo for under a grand.

I see Saigas online for 299 brand new. Is it still possible to get this deal? I went to the LGS and all they could order was full AK'ified Saigas for like $750+.

[dj age one]

DJ - if you're having light strikes in your 5.45x39 it's due to the stiff primers on Russian ammo. My LWRC 5.45x39 upper was shipped with a Wolf extra strength hammer spring. This ensures a harder hit on the round, and guarantee primer ignition. Try that out.

I got rid of my 5.45x39 upper before I even shot it because everyone else was having magazine feed issues with them unfortunately.

yeah, I tried that, I run a Wolff extra power in my 9mm ar because I was hoping to still find pakastani surplus ammo (that crap was CHEAP but its all gone now, didn't work for most people who bought it because it is sub gun ammo and way to hard primers for pistols)

unfortunately that spring was incompatible with the Jard trigger.

so its getting its own lower

[Elbows]

I see Saigas online for 299 brand new. Is it still possible to get this deal? I went to the LGS and all they could order was full AK'ified Saigas for like $750+.

Yes you can still find Saiga rifles for $299-350. In fact since Russia has announced they're finally ditching the AK (and replacing it with...an AK, lol) the arsenals at Izhmash etc. have stated they'll be upping international commercial sales - so we're hoping to get a bump of Saiga rifles.

Unless you're doing the work yourself - the SGL line of Saigas (the fully AK'ized models) are worth the money - especially if you can get one for $700's.

NoDub - regarding the Adam's upper - it's probably plenty good. I'd still choose an LWRC simply based on all of the other "neat" stuff (nickel boron, advanced combat bolt, skirmish sights, ridiculously good barrel, one-piece carrier, etc.). The only "bad" true piston company I've heard of so far is POF. They seem to be completely hit or miss. Shame as I thought they looked awesome on paper.

PS: Oh - Jard trigger? Gotcha, hope you do get your lower sorted out.

[Elbows]

NoDub --- this is what the Brits requested (mum's the word on "who").

UCIW (Ultra Compact Individual Weapon)...7.5" barrel, shortened butt-stock, buffer tube. I think overall length collapsed is 21".



I guess if you're going to go small...go big?

[NoDubJustYet]

NoDub --- this is what the Brits requested (mum's the word on "who").

UCIW (Ultra Compact Individual Weapon)...7.5" barrel, shortened butt-stock, buffer tube. I think overall length collapsed is 21".

-Pretty Picture-

I guess if you're going to go small...go big?

LWRC is too rich for my blood... especially that fancy SBS/SAS room sweeper.

I hadn't heard that the POF rifles weren't any good. They sure look nice - I love their lowers too. Oh well, they were too rich for my blood too.

[Elbows]

Don't get me wrong, I'll never buy another LWRC - even if I had the money. I'd still stick with a normal BCM probably. But LWRC makes some incredible stuff - and if I had to buy one, I'd pick it over HK etc. any day.

Heck Sig just copied LWRC until they sued them (then they barely changed their design to avoid more legal issues). I like LWRC because they really push the envelope of the AR platform. Constant innovation. But as you said, with their "cheap" gun being about $1500...it's tough unless you're made of money. Then again when I had mine, five other agents I worked with bought them too - so I guess we were a bit rich-blooded.

[NoDubJustYet]

it's tough unless you're made of money. Then again when I had mine, five other agents I worked with bought them too - so I guess we were a bit rich-blooded.

A bunch of single guys at a journeyman GS-12s with LEAP? Sounds about right...

I'm a -12... with a wife and two kids.

[Elbows]

LEAP!? Hah...try "AUO" - AuthorizeD Unavoidable Overtime....the BP's brilliant way of saying "You work a minimum of 10 hours a day...but those last two hours, you're not going to get real overtime, but just +10-25% instead of 50%".

Trust me, we would have killed for LEAP.