CIS-E G Lader

[nbvwfan]

10-03-2012 Updates
Everything is done except for lengthening the ISV, TPS, and T/B connector and the Crankcase to G60 breather.

[nbvwfan]

I extened the connectors and made a block off plate and Crankcase breather to charger.
It started right up.
BUT, I need to make an aluminum version of the "snake head".
Apparently it does not work at 30 in of vaccuum.
I suspected this would be the case.
More fabricating tonight, hoping it is the last of it for this conversion.

[nbvwfan]

Replaced the snakehead and the lower intercooler rubber transition with aluminum. Clearance is tighter than I like. The car starts and runs and I see boost as the FPR rises up and down relative to pressure. It surges though and then stalls once off the gas. A/F is better responding as I had hoped (FPR after G60), but the location of the T/B so far upstream of the intake manifold induces a pressure wave that the FPR cannot readily respond to.
I am going to have to relocate the T/B back to the intake manifold and work out a pre FPR bypass or dump valve. Will dig through my parts to find a N/A 8V T/B and just pull the corrado version.

Messed around with making steel flares. Did not like 3" so I trimmed it down to 2". Still too much flare so I may trim it to 1". If it still looks to flared I will just ditch the idea.
Pictures if anyone is watching or cares... I thought there would be more interest in an outside the box build.

[CodeMan]

Pictures if anyone is watching or cares... I thought there would be more interest in an outside the box build.

Lookin good man, and I'm still watching. I think the "CIS" in the title is scaring off most of the forum.

[Clay.0]

I'm interested and following. Good job with the fabrication and doing something different

[nbvwfan]

Lookin good man, and I'm still watching. I think the "CIS" in the title is scaring off most of the forum.

Thanks, I think you raise a good point.

[nbvwfan]

Been debating what I can do to get the A/F and idle resolved.
Last night I went back to the Corrado T/B at manifold and got it to start, run, and idle fine, but A/F is way rich at ~9.5:1 pretty much all the time.
I took out the DPR and did a reverse power tune (~1 turn CCW) and it only leaned it out ~1 point. Idle screw is CCW to stop, still too rich.
I am waiting on a BOV that I can run pre intercooler, thus eliminating the excess air going through the metering head. I am hoping this fixes things. If not I can always run the BOV as a bypass return or plumb the T/B dump back to the G60. But that would probably put me right back to where I was when I started; a 12.5:1 A/F at idle and a lean spot, then ~12:1 at WOT. I am thinking about the DPR and if one off an Audi or Volvo turbo might have more +/- Mah bandwidth. But this is all speculaltion on technology that is about 15 years beyond the realm of performance tuning enthusiasts.
I could always go standalone, but I am not there yet.
More after the weekend.

[nbvwfan]

2. I got a couple BOV's in and threw them both on last night. One was junk, but after my Ebay bucks it was only $8 so it was fun hoping. The other cost a bit more and is an alternate for the 1.8T diaphragm BOV that goes bad.
Plumbed in it worked but I had to crank it all the way loose to get it venting at idle.
It is loud and it seems to not have the flow to vent to ~10-15in of vacuum, but a ~1 PSI positive load on the G Lader might not be too taxing.
I plan on refining the setup some tonight.
I threw a 8V T/B on and managed to clock the throttle cable to ~120 degrees from stock so I can run the cable without binding. Once I have my 2.5" to 3" reducer hooked up I should have more to work with.
Considering throwing on my spare DPR's to batch run and see if I have one with more +/-mah bandwidth to affect A/F tuning. I plan to also look at the counterweight and see if the alignment screw also can shift the CG of the sensor plate
Sealing the aluminum snakehead and getting organized and methodical is the plan along with all this over the weekend.
If I get frustrated, maybe I will step back and make some steel flares while I think of next steps.
No one commented, but should I fabricate some ~1.5 flares all around and ditch/sell the plastic flares?
I was hoping for comments on the look. I plan on 25mm spacers and eventually some wider rims, but I want the power to justify it first.

[DocWalt]

I don't know enough about CIS-E to suggest anything on that side, but I like the project.

I'm not a huge fan of the GTI or G60 flares, but they look great if the car's stance is proper. IMO, it's much more livable with metal flares and cleaner looking too.

[nbvwfan]

So I should make some 1-1.5" steel flares?
I did one mockup and got the arc swept nearly no gap on the first attempt.
I just don't know if I want to commit to making four, especially after I just finished the rust repair on teh rear two.
But I will be kicking myself once it's painted for not doing it.
I am torn between OEM and Oettinger
Stock, the 195/60/14 on teardrops and HR's soft sports look pretty decent. If I flare it I have to go wider, if I go wider, honda kids will want to race me. If I end up racing honda's, who knows what else I will do.

[nbvwfan]

I made up a post charger, pre-FPR dump pipe and fitted both BOV's.
Next was a tweak of the DPR and I found an oring for the vanagon waterpump that fit the groove of the FPR flowmeter flange. I managed to wedge my intake hood over that.
It started up after a few tries and ran as I had hope. Throttle response is very quick, it stumbes at mid to WOT, but I think that is due to clogged injector pintles.
I shifted gear and decided to finish the body work and prep it for sealer.Below are pic's from teh weekend.
Dual BOV's



Before

Before

After

Before

After

[garytightpants]

This may be the nerd in me, but i like seeing this thread, i've been lurking on what your doing for a while

[nbvwfan]

This may be the nerd in me, but i like seeing this thread, i've been lurking on what your doing for a while

Thanks!
It is nice to have someone lurk out into the open and make comment. I was looking for my pictures to update yesterday and saw that I started this teardown about 2 years ago.
I am happy it is almost complete, frustrated it has taken this long, and now better educated with what to do nect time.

Ordered a second BOV last night. and made a diffuser to quiet them down. Kindof intake muffler. It will either work or it was good practice TIG welding. If its the later, I can just buy some from Mc Master Carr.

[nbvwfan]

Silencer for the dual BOV's
And a pic of our GTI's. My brothers is an 86 GTI, non sunroof, with black Leather model.

[garytightpants]

Thanks!
It is nice to have someone lurk out into the open and make comment.

I figured I'd offer some support considering I have a frustrating G60 project myself, albeit nothing compared to this.

Silencer for the dual BOV's
And a pic of our GTI's. My brothers is an 86 GTI, non sunroof, with black Leather model.

I can't tell if it's just the pics making it seem this way, but that looks HUGE.
It is very ingenuititve and pretty badass. I've been contemplating something similar to that to attach to the stock TB "BOV" butterfly thing to quite it down since i have my boost return deleted.

[nbvwfan]

It is 2.5" tubing about 8" long with 1" inlet ports and a 1.5" outlet port, drilled haphazardly.
OR
You could just get this from McMaster Carr.
1" NPT is ~1.3 OD
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/366/=jqxa0s #4450K6 @8.88 each
Or attached this to your dump tube
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/366/=jqxb2g
You should be able to clamp it straight to the discharge hose.
these are air line diffusers and should muffle the hiss.
I should have just bought two of the 3/4" and avoided 2 hours fabrication.
But like I said, it is good practice and I like messing with mufflers.

PM me with your G60 problems.
I have read a bunch on Bosch and VW application in MK1-MK3 and the hybrids in between.

[kinkerstinker]

can't wait to see this done.

[nbvwfan]

Last night I installed the brass CIS injectors from a Mercedes to see if the WOT stumble would improve then I mocked up the silencer.

Picture is not the final placement.




Video with silencer installedhttp://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/...thSilencer.mp4


Video without silencer installedhttp://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/...utSilencer.mp4



I would say it does the trick.
I have a longer video of the in seat sound, but I may post it later.

[garytightpants]

That's wicked sick! I like the way it sounds in both videos, but that silencer certainly does its job.
What were you thinking for the final placement of it?

[nbvwfan]

I am planning on tidying everything up and plumbing it in parallel to the charger to I/C pipe, and maybe routing the outlet at the wheel well behind the I/C.
The sound is more pronounced with them off, I was standing about the same distance but out of the path of the BOV exhaust so it seemed quieter than it was in the "without" video.
The in cabin noise is what I was after, and it is almost inaudible
When I first had the Tandem BOV's plumbed and started at ~10 PM, I was told I woke up the kids and the car work needed to stop for the night. It was that loud.
It sounds like a busted air line from the front of the car without the silencer. I know it would get the "cool" attention, but it also would get old crusing on the highway.
Thanks for the reply.
I have two diffusers on the way from MMC and may try them, but I like how the silencer turned out except for the bubble gum TIG transition work. When all is done I am going to pull all the pipes and wrinkle finish them in flat black.

[nbvwfan]

Bump this thread if you want some new pictures.
I have a lot of progress to report from over the weekend.
Here is a teaser

[garytightpants]

Gimme more

[nbvwfan]

I fabricated a new Charger to I/C tube.
Lost the loss of the 3 90 degree bends in exchange for a single part that has 3 22 transitions. Added the dual BOV dump ports and it fits better over the hump of the radiator fan.
Pulled it all out, tucked the wires and fuel lines to the center of the engine block so I could clean the fender sills and prep for a full respray in tornado red.
Finished masking the bay and shot 3 coats of base and 3-4 coats of clear.
Shot all the piping in the same color and clear and then reassembled most of the parts back on carefully while letting the paint and clear firm up.
I have a couple areas that have orange peel and there are some bugs and debri, but once it is all hardened up, I plan on wetsanding the whole car, then compounding and buffing.
The body work turned out decent, though the door is a little wavy. I can always pick one up and respray it in the next couple months. Overall, I think it is a big improvment over the faded, bondoed, and primered look of the last several weeks.
To the pictures,

[Volkswageneer1990]

l really like the look of the 7-slat Aero setup and G60 badge on the Golf

And as per your painting, did you paint the coolant hoses as well? Or what hoses are those? Did you paint in Tornado Red?

Looks awesome! It's great inspiration for me. I'm going to be painting my car in the coming weeks with OEM Tornado Red.

[akabigmike2]

this thread is awesome!

[DocWalt]

Looks fantastic! Keep on truckin'

[nbvwfan]

l really like the look of the 7-slat Aero setup and G60 badge on the Golf

And as per your painting, did you paint the coolant hoses as well? Or what hoses are those? Did you paint in Tornado Red?

Looks awesome! It's great inspiration for me. I'm going to be painting my car in the coming weeks with OEM Tornado Red.

The grill was a carpartswholesale $38 special, did not know the type but thanks for clarifying. The Badge is an OEM off a corrado, and it took a while to find, though a number of people I bought bits from promised to throw it in, but that did not happen. I was going to put GTI on it, but the font is different, so it stays just badged a VW and G60 (special on CIS-E)

Those are not coolant hoses, They are all boost pipes I made to replace the Eurosport set and OEM plastic that was no longer useable.
One is the charger to I/C main pipe with two BOV dump ports
The other is the FPR to T/B pipe, and I had to iterate it due to the "snake head" collapsing under vacuum.
And the last is my own BOV silencer (intake muffler). It was a first attempt at silencing the hiss at idle and I am happy with it.
I made an RSR outlet but it is not painted right now.

Yes the color is OEM Tornado red, U Tech 2 stage, 2-3 coats base and 3-4 coats clear. It is still hardening up but it turned out about 7 for 10 coverage and about 6 for 10 for lay. I plan on a lot of colorsanding, compounding, and polishing. I started last night with 1500,2000, and 2500 but I need to go to autogeek.com and watch some refresher videos and buy some supplies.

Thanks for all the inputs, it keeps me going too.

[nbvwfan]

Looks awesome! It's great inspiration for me. I'm going to be painting my car in the coming weeks with OEM Tornado Red

Prior to you painting, a couple of things I learned

1. Watch some you tube videos, specifically a guy in New Zealand who gives some great tips on garage painting. This guy RESTOLAD is great.
I wished I saw this Friday before shooting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7jFNUGUhIs
2. Don't rush, wait for it to dry/flash
3. Consider buying Fast activator for clear (I got medium and it is still soft after 48 hours, cannot sand yet )
4. When it gets dark, stop shooting a. You cannot see b. Bugs like sticking/dropping/crawling on your wet coat
5. Get frog tape, it works
6. Clean clean clean
7. Wear a respirator
8. Make sure you buy paint prep (wax/grease remover)
9. Buy a DA/polisher and some a Wolfgang products swirl remover kit, and lake industry pads
10. Spray the bay, nothing like opening the hood and seeing the color continued.

I am not a painting pro, but these are somethings I have learned, some the hard way.
Whatever it ends up like, you can always shoot over.

Last, lots of clear is your freind, and learn to love wet sanding (autogeek has some great product and videos), it is the solution to the garage spray blues.

[nbvwfan]

Started wet sanding.
Started at the worst orange peel on the car. 1500, then 2000, then 2500.
Then compound (gently) with my DA, and then Wolfgang swirl remover.
Also started the hood.

Before



After (WIP)



Before



After (WIP)



I realized I need to go easier on the sanding pressure. I also need to get my compound then polish process sorted out. But it was late and I wanted to see how it would improve and how much the bugs and nibs would still show after blocking it.
I think it should make the 6 of 10 clear to about an 8 of 10 final finish. I can always respray the clear.
I have enjoyed telling the kids "no, its not still wet". They have enjoyed seeing shiny red on the 26 year old car that has been in garage for almost two years.

[nbvwfan]

Not much progress.
Ordered a 4-7 PSI hobb Switch, a Rheostat, and a 3 BAR GM MAP sensor. to do some DPR signal tuning.
Clear is still too soft but tried another pass with 2500 to see if I could sand out the hatching and minimize the blemished.
Also started cleaning up the wiring harness. Frustrating though that no mater what arrangment is made it is still cluttered.
Ended the night fitting the boost tubing and figuring how the BOV's muffler was going to end up.

[nbvwfan]

My dream job,
I thought the guy switiching seat positions had the worst/funnest job of all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Piw...feature=g-vrec

[nbvwfan]

Managed to get a little more done in spite of the storm that blew through and knocked out power.
Wired/Plumbed in the Hobb Switch to WOT. Dressed, wrapped and tucked all the wires in the bay. Routed the injector lines and clocked the FPR. Started it up again and have some tuning to try to do. Still have a stumble at half to WOT. Need to feed in a 5V 20Mah signal to the DPR to get it corrected.
Sanded the hood and roof with Trizact 3000 grit. Experimented with compounds until I found one that seemed to work well enough. Muguires 105 is a little to agressive, so I finished with 205 and a soft foam pad on my polisher. did some hand sanding in the fender and door, still in process.
See the pictures and comment if you like.


Roof sanded


Roof compounded


Hood and roof partial compounded with 205




Bay wiring

[nbvwfan]

11-1-2012 Update.
I wired up an simple circuit last night. 4 AA batteries (6V, ~15Mah) with a pushbutton plumbed to the test ports on my DPR harness. With the car running I had A/F bouncing ~14:1, cracking the throttle I would see it drop momentarily to ~12:1 then surge to ~15:1. With the wired in switch and hitting the button, the A/F dropped immediately to ~10:1 and stayed under 11:1 all the way WOT to redline.
I have sucessfully figured a way to patch in load enrichment to DPR in CIS-E. I made this into an "OR" circuit to hook to a pushbutton and the Hobbs switch and will have a two color LED to indicate when the switch is closed on the hobbs. When this is reliable I plan on swapping the battery pack for a MAP sensor, because the one I bought was ebay junk.

[CodeMan]

Dude, that's awesome. I love the way you're attacking the fueling problem.

[nbvwfan]

The DPR tuning/manipulating had stumped me for weeks, and was part of the reason I went through a mass relocation of all fuel components.
While I know it was possible, everyangle I attempted to patch in a signal seemed buffered, delayed, or blocked by the ECU.
I figured why not bring in an external signal and make it do what I want. Higher + current (~7v) on the DPR changes the delta pressure and increases flow not just at sensor plate lift but also deflection in the chamber membranes lower/upper. The signal drives the DPR to pull the plate towards the exit port raising upper chamber pressure, lowering the lower chamber pressure, causing a drop in the position of the membrane. This opens the inlet to the injector lines all while causing an increase in slit size due to sensor lift. This happens instantaneously.
I knew it was possible, and I could not believe it until I saw it on my O2 wideband.
I cannot wait to wire this in and drive it. Last week, I got a 68MM pully to try out. Currently with my 78MM and the new 2.5" piping and reduction in OEM transitions, I am seeing 8-10 PSI easy. Just want to drive it to verify.
More tomorrow.