2011 GTI APR Stage 1 Results

[Eviloliv3]

Went to the track with 100% stock car and ran 14.9 @ 95. Chipped it roughly a week later and then went again.

Put into stock mode and ran 14.8 and 14.9 as a baseline. Put into 91 oct mode and it ran a 15.0 and 15.1.

Just had a dyno of Stock and 91 oct mode done



Not sure why its pulling all power above 4k rpms

Id imagine heat soak, but i cant imagine it dropping 100 ft lbs....

any ideas?

[Arin@APR]

Yeah, that's most likely a protection routine. When you don't have a lot of airflow through the car such as when it's on the dyno it will pull power to protect the motor. It does this by doing several different things such as running richer and so on. It looks like that's what's happening.

Your quarter mile may be slower if you're spinning tires at the track... was your trap speed higher?

If you have a vag-com, we can run data logs on the road to see if everything is running correctly once you have proper airflow over the car.

[Eviloliv3]

No spinning. The top end just fell on its face the further into the 1/4 I went. Trap speed was 93, 94.

[Arin@APR]

Did you send tech support a round of logs?

[jepva]

No, your car definitely flatlines at 5,000 and if you look at my dyno what you are seeing is not normal. It looks like you did hit your peaks though and you put up similar numbers to mine, but what kind of dyno was it? I don't recognize that graph, was it a hub/crank dyno or a chassis (wheel) dyno?

Also heatsoak isn't as much of an issue as people make it out to be there's plenty of people on Stage 1 running into the 13's, if you had shifted at 5k lol you probably would have had better results.

[Eviloliv3]

The shop that the dyno was done at said they were sending up their logs to APR. Ill see if I can get my hands on a VAGCOM to see what it's showing

It was a roller dyno.

[Arin@APR]

It's a MAHA roller.

I have the logs here and I can't find anything alarming that would indicate the dip. Were the logs preformed on the dyno?

Looking at the logs I did notice your o2 sensor was not active during the first pull till the end. This will happen when it's not heated up. Is there any chance the dyno pull was conducted when the car was cold? That still will not explain the low trap though...


Anyways, you had 3 pulls conducted.

Run 1 -
MAF - Smooth without any dips.
Timing - Smooth without any dips.
Timing Retard - -2 on one cyl.
Boost - Smooth without any dips.
Boost N75 Duty Cycle - Smooth without any dips.
Throttle - Smooth without any dips.
Lambda - Appears the sensor was not active till redline.

Run 2 -
MAF - Smooth without any dips.
Timing - Smooth without any dips.
Timing Retard - 0 on all cyls.
Boost - Smooth without any dips.
Boost N75 Duty Cycle - Smooth without any dips.
Throttle - Smooth without any dips.
Lambda - Smooth without any dips.

Run 3-
MAF - Smooth without any dips.
Timing - Smooth without any dips.
Timing Retard - 0 on all cyls
Boost - Smooth without any dips.
Boost N75 Duty Cycle - Smooth without any dips.
Throttle - Smooth without any dips.
Lambda - Smooth without any dips.

[Eviloliv3]

The car was driven for 30 miles to get to the shop, sat for roughly 20 minutes and then ran on the dyno

[Eviloliv3]

If the logs arent showing anything, would this be something mechanically related? I cant seem to think of anything that would be the cause that wouldnt already be caught by the logs

[Arin@APR]

If the logs arent showing anything, would this be something mechanically related? I cant seem to think of anything that would be the cause that wouldnt already be caught by the logs

It if were something mechanically wrong with the car, we would probably see it in the logs as well.

Do you personally have access to a vag-com? We could run some logs of Mass airflow stock vs chipped to show the difference.

[Eviloliv3]

I dont personally have one, i can check to see if anyone locally has one

[hazy450]

I have a 2k10 tiguan and ran a 15.7 stock and then a 14.9 in 91 mode then a 14.4 with 100 on the 100 mode.... I put 246whp on 91 tune.

[NEW2B]

theres definetly something wrong with the car, maybe a boost leak?
all i can say is i ran a 14.2 on stage 1 and a 13.9 on stage2 with crapy tires.
if the dyno is a maha then your not going to get good whp readings but there pretty accurate
with hp to the motor.

[Etuners]

Went to the track with 100% stock car and ran 14.9 @ 95. Chipped it roughly a week later and then went again.

Put into stock mode and ran 14.8 and 14.9 as a baseline. Put into 91 oct mode and it ran a 15.0 and 15.1.

Just had a dyno of Stock and 91 oct mode done



Not sure why its pulling all power above 4k rpms

Id imagine heat soak, but i cant imagine it dropping 100 ft lbs....

any ideas?

Something goes wrong ... Did you check the load and the IAT ( VAG-COM @ 118 ) ? On a MAHA dyno , the load is heavy and maybe this is the cause ( ΙΑΤ ) of the huge drop of torque at 4500rpm .

I use a MAHA LPS 3000 and my settings are : Load : 0% , Roll-out : 100% - 120% , with good ventilation. That keeps the IAT at 110-115oF ( Golf VI GTI stg2 , 23psi overboost ) , which is an acceptable number .

[Eviloliv3]

In case anybody searches this in the future...

Problem still hasnt been fixed.

APR stating its not an issue with the tune and that all parameters showing normal. Shop says its some kind of internal boost leak that cant be tracked down.

Bought a "D" diverter valve and its the same plunger type as the "C" valve that came in the car. New DV does nothing different.

[feplazas]

Don't give up. There's no such thing as a boost leak that can't be tracked down. Your car is NEW. Try everything. A reflash for instance. With all due respect to Arin and APR, my stage 1 results have not been good, just as yours (and i'm living with it until i find the way to get another tune so i can compare. I'm in Colombia btw). I mean, come on, your times are better on stock mode!!!! If i were you i'd go get my money back and then head straight to a GIAC or Unitronics tuner. Hope everything works out for you. Let us know.

[Arin@APR]

Problem still hasnt been fixed.

I was not aware you were still having issues. Do you know the date when you were flashed? I'm going to look into this further and I'll get back to you.

Thanks!

-Arin

[Arin@APR]

I actually just took a look at the logs and sent them off to engineering. We also verified the file to make sure nothing was incorrect as far as we could see.

Here's what I'm seeing in the 3 runs you sent me:

Boost - looks spot on.
MAF - is a little low, but not far off for 91 in hot weather.
Lambda - looks right for 91 and actually 1 run appears to be when the o2 sensor was not heated up yet, which is why it's a flat line at .99.
Timing pull - You only pulled a little on one cylinder during the first run when the o2 was not warmed up.
Timing advance - 15 by redline is a little low, even for 91 but I believe it's much lower due to intake air temperature. I reread a few emails and was told the logging weather was fairly hot so it makes sense the advance was pulled. Essentially as the intake air temperature rises, and the intercooler heat soaks, you'll run into knock issues with too much advance, because of that advance has to be pulled back. An intercooler upgrade will really help you out.

Basically, I'm not seeing any big dips in power in these logs which would explain any power losses on the dyno or at the track.

Thoughts?

[Arin@APR]

Eviloliv3,

can you check your PMs? I want to try one more round of logging.

Thank you!

-Arin

[Eviloliv3]

Arin,

Sorry, was out visiting family since the post.

The dyno runs were done in 70 degree weather which is far from hot. I can understand a little power loss from heat soak, but not 100ft lbs.

I replied to the pm and appreciate you looking into it further for me.

As for switching to a different tuning company, not gonna happen. Had APR on my last GTI and will stick with it on this one.

[feplazas]

Arin,

Sorry, was out visiting family since the post.

The dyno runs were done in 70 degree weather which is far from hot. I can understand a little power loss from heat soak, but not 100ft lbs.

I replied to the pm and appreciate you looking into it further for me.

As for switching to a different tuning company, not gonna happen. Had APR on my last GTI and will stick with it on this one.

Nope, no switching, just compare. Then you'll know you are where yo have to be.

[Simmsled]

Is the OP's car a 6mt or DSG?

I only ask because I've been seeing more and more stage 1 TSI's equipped with manual transmissions where the engine will keep on going/boosting/producing power, but not transmit all of the power to the wheels (clutch slipping). I've been experiencing it and have seen a stage 1 CC do the exact same thing.

It could be something to look into.

[Eviloliv3]

Its a DSG

[icon5585]

Wait, you're saying the 6MT will slip, but the DSG is fine??? I would have thought it'd be the other way around.

[Eviloliv3]

I was stating that my vehicle is DSG. The previous poster was saying that the manual can slip

[Schumi69]

I have APR's stage 1 and I had something like you describe above happen to me. My first flash was perfect in till I went to the Dealer for an oil change and they flashed the ecu to stock with out me knowing. I did not realize this in till a few weeks later when I noticed a difference in my car. I had assumed it was the 100+ temps that were affecting the nonperformance. Long story short I went to the distributor where I got the car flashed and they re-flashed the car. The car had to be flashed 4 times as it would freeze up and not complete. It felt faster but never as good as it did before and I felt like I was up against a brick wall above 80. I talked to the guys at the distributor and they said bring it back and they would try again. They did it again and WOW now I have my car back. Huge difference. Now even part throttle spins the tires again. If you are experiencing less than expected gains you might want to have them re-flash your ecu and see if that fixes the problem. It felt like the car was pulling huge amounts of timing up top. I cant say for sure what the problem was but I do know getting it re-flashed fixed the problem. I'm not even sure if APR is aware this can happen.

[TecklenburgVW]

I was stating that my vehicle is DSG. The previous poster was saying that the manual can slip

Did your above issue ever get resolved? If so, what was causing the problem?

[TecklenburgVW]

I have APR's stage 1 and I had something like you describe above happen to me. My first flash was perfect in till I went to the Dealer for an oil change and they flashed the ecu to stock with out me knowing. I did not realize this in till a few weeks later when I noticed a difference in my car. I had assumed it was the 100+ temps that were affecting the nonperformance. Long story short I went to the distributor where I got the car flashed and they re-flashed the car. The car had to be flashed 4 times as it would freeze up and not complete. It felt faster but never as good as it did before and I felt like I was up against a brick wall above 80. I talked to the guys at the distributor and they said bring it back and they would try again. They did it again and WOW now I have my car back. Huge difference. Now even part throttle spins the tires again. If you are experiencing less than expected gains you might want to have them re-flash your ecu and see if that fixes the problem. It felt like the car was pulling huge amounts of timing up top. I cant say for sure what the problem was but I do know getting it re-flashed fixed the problem. I'm not even sure if APR is aware this can happen.

Perhaps Arin@APR can comment on this?

[Arin@APR]

Perhaps Arin@APR can comment on this?

Maybe in the wrong program.