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    Thread: 09A GNZ transmission problem

    1. Member
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      03-09-2011 07:08 PM #1
      Hello all,

      I need help. I have a 2003 1.8T jetta with a 5speed automatic transmission (GNZ code).
      Problem started with no 3rd speed available when cold, after running a few miles and tranny gets warm, 3rd speed will become available but in the meantime, tranny will shift rough from 2nd to 4th with rpms high (of course so it can reach the speed for 4th to be available). When the transmission is cold and if I try manual shifting, the transmission tries to engage 3rd speed but it can't then it goes back to second.
      Now 1 more problem added to this, now whenever it's time for the 4th speed to kick in, it doesn't engage. It disengages 2nd(when cold) or 3rd(when warm) and it can't engage the 4th speed, rpms go up (of course due to not engaging the speed) and I have to wait for the rpms go down to idle speed and accelerate again so the 4th speed can kick in.
      Recently, whenever I'm changing speeds manually, If i decrease from 5th to 4th or 4th to 3rd(when available) instead of rpms going up (like it should due to lowering the gear at higher vehicle speed) they go to idle speed.

      I haven't check for codes yet, I will do that tonight and post whatever I find tomorrow. In the meantiem if anyone can help me solve this I will be forever thankful since I don't want to spend $5000 on a new tranny ( I hate VW does this, not selling internal transmission parts )

      Thank you,
      Jose Walters

    2. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      03-12-2011 12:22 PM #2
      no upshift cold is thoroughly covered here. Your hard shift could be sticky solenoids also.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...hen-cold/page3
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
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    3. 04-01-2011 11:53 PM #3
      Changing one solenoid does not help. Change all nine to eliminate solenoid probable cause. I just installed a set that I purchased from www.electricaladvantage.net
      electricaladvantage.net,1771 Harrison Pond Drive, New Albany OH 43054; $339 with free shipping and no tax. Cobra trans is more expensive. However, after work done, I have the same problem, only first and second gears. no 3rd, 4th or 5th no matter what I do. Looking at the power diagrams of the 09A textbook I'd think that the High Clutch has failed, as it is required for 3-4-5 drive. I hoped the solenoid kit would've fixed it, but no cigar. I need to source an used 09A and transfer the new solenoids.

    4. 05-17-2011 09:41 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by porschetek View Post
      Changing one solenoid does not help. Change all nine to eliminate solenoid probable cause. I just installed a set that I purchased from www.electricaladvantage.net
      electricaladvantage.net,1771 Harrison Pond Drive, New Albany OH 43054; $339 with free shipping and no tax. Cobra trans is more expensive. However, after work done, I have the same problem, only first and second gears. no 3rd, 4th or 5th no matter what I do. Looking at the power diagrams of the 09A textbook I'd think that the High Clutch has failed, as it is required for 3-4-5 drive. I hoped the solenoid kit would've fixed it, but no cigar. I need to source an used 09A and transfer the new solenoids.
      Thanks to Mazda MPV forums got the answer to my problem, as I suspected High clutch is burned. Took it out right in car, have ordered frictions and steel plates from Whatever it Takes transmissions since VW does not retail loose parts. I'll get back with update.

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      05-17-2011 11:13 PM #5
      Please keep us updated on that one. I've got the same problem on my '02 1.8T. I was wondering how bad it would be to rebuild that trans, considering there are several sites that sell the rebuild parts.

      thanks,

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      05-18-2011 01:07 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by porschetek View Post
      Thanks to Mazda MPV forums got the answer to my problem, as I suspected High clutch is burned. Took it out right in car, have ordered frictions and steel plates from Whatever it Takes transmissions since VW does not retail loose parts. I'll get back with update.
      09A textbook? Do you mean the Self Study Program #232? That's the best reference I've found as to how the 09A works.

      High clutch == K3, I take it (as on p20 of SSP#232)?

      If that fixes your problem, it would be great if you could take some pictures and make a short how-to! Especially if you can do it without dropping the transmission ...

    7. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      05-18-2011 04:20 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by porschetek View Post
      Thanks to Mazda MPV forums got the answer to my problem, as I suspected High clutch is burned. Took it out right in car, have ordered frictions and steel plates from Whatever it Takes transmissions since VW does not retail loose parts. I'll get back with update.
      Make sure you find what caused the High clutch failure. It would be a shame to put it back together only to have it burn out again. Check to make sure the piston isn't cracked and check other areas that could leak pressure to the clutch.
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
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      05-19-2011 10:43 AM #8
      Just wondering if you need special tools to take apart the tranny. Found this book on Ebay,

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

      Is this the book you are talking about?????

      Thanks, Lee.

    9. 05-21-2011 10:31 PM #9
      Thanks for all the questions, I'll try to give info as I go along. Removing the trans rear cover, in this case driver's side cover was not too complicated. it helps to remove the air filter housing, battery and tray, selector switch and loosen the 3 trans mount bolts and back them out enough that the cover clears the car's frame side by the left strut, I know pictures are best but I didn't take any yet. sorry, a little more time. With the cover out then you pull the reverse clutch/ hi clutch drum assembly off the trans and watch out for front and rear radial bearings. Later on I will post web addresses where you can download Mazda's trans repair manual and update for free. It is plenty for this repair. And some more addresses to facilitate this job. A shop press is needed to remove and install the hub circlip. I had bought a reverse/ high piston kit from Cobra, a rubber ring kit from WIT so I was ready to do it. Guess what, surprise, no cracked reverse or high pistons! Instead, a lowly outer rubber ring on the high clutch piston had lost a half inch piece allowing oil pressure to leak from high clutch and caused high clutch steels and frictions to drag until burned useless!! I am not too good at editing write ups, I will post as much linkage as I have found in the www to get this done. VW parts department sells replacement transes. There are alternatives. Please copy and paste:
      http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=24788
      http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.p...a90009e863f2c0
      https://www.wittrans.com/signin.aspx
      http://www.muddyoval.com/articles/fl...20Part%201.pdf
      Last edited by porschetek; 05-21-2011 at 10:38 PM. Reason: spelling


    10. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      05-26-2011 12:12 PM #11
      Nice job on the info gathering!!! Be sure to keep us updated.
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
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      08-04-2011 01:11 PM #12
      Hello everybody,

      So I finally finished disassembling the tranny.
      I found so much metal shavings on the magnet, but these shavings account for 7 years of no service whatsoever.

      Codes on the TCM were 00300 (Transmission Fluid Temp. Sensor (G93) - Implausible Signal), 00526 (Brake Light Switch (F): Circuit Malfunction), 00652 (Gear Monitoring: Implausible Signal).

      I started this thread on march, so problems before I started dismounting the transmission (last week) were:
      1.- No 3rd available when cold
      2.- When warming up, 3rd, 4th and 5th not available, transmission will try to engage 3rd but can't so it goes back to 2nd, engine revs high disengages 2nd and will not engage any speed, if selector is moved to manual, display is on 5th, if selector is moved to 4th or 3rd no speed will be engaged, only 2nd when selected.
      3.- When transmission is hot, 3rd will become available.
      4.- When 4th and 5th are engaged (trans cold) transmission will slip
      5.- Supercharger like whining

      I see that the High/Reverse drum is damaged and also the brake metal band is worn and the direct clutch drum is a little scratched due to the brake band being worn.
      That is all the damage I see.
      I need some advice on replacing these parts or not but I think it will be better if you guys see the pictures.

      And yes, you need to take down the tranny and open it to change the filter (some were wondering) I have the pictures just need to know how to attach them.

      I have a lot of pictures of the transmission being dissambled but I do not know how to attach them, I see the icon to insert images but I do not know the URL to my local hardrive. Can anyone enlighten me in this matter?

      Thank you very much.

    12. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      08-04-2011 03:42 PM #13
      To post pics your gonna have to have a service Host them. Its free.
      Here's a write up I did for posting to another forum. Most of the info is the same.

      http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/v...php?f=8&t=6632
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
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    13. 08-04-2011 07:13 PM #14
      Hey, I am hoping to get some good info here that will help me, thanks for posting! I have a 02 1.8T that slips into nuetral in 3, 4, 5 when the revs go over 2,200.... as long as I stay below that everything is fine. Not sure if it is a solonoid or something else?

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      08-05-2011 12:26 PM #15
      Hello everybody,

      I will try to put some pictures.

      This is the magnet full of metal shavings.



      The thing is that the magnet is located at the bottom of the strainer and in order to have access to it you have to dismount the tranny.



      The damage I found was on the High/Reverse drum, but I found out that this is included in the master kit I bought so I will replace it.




      I owe you guys the picture of the direct clutch drum which is also damaged, I will take it today in the afternoon and post it as I'am at work right now, obviously not working hehehe

      In this picture you will see that transmission overheated, due to low ATF level.


      All the bearings aren't showing any damage but I will change them just to play safe.

      I will start with the assembly tomorrow so I will disassembly the clutch packs tomorrow and see the condition of the discs and metals in each pack.
      I'm guessing 1st, 2nd and reverse will be OK but 3rd, 4th and 5th won't because transmission was slipping too much when those speeds were engaged.

      I still need to check the wiring harnesses, I will do that tomorrow also and post any findings.

    15. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      08-05-2011 03:27 PM #16
      Nice post!

      Does your rebuild kit come with the piston as well?
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
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      08-05-2011 06:36 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by CoolAirVw View Post
      Nice post!

      Does your rebuild kit come with the piston as well?
      Thanks

      Yes it does come with the piston, at least that's what they told me, I will be picking the parts today at the store. The only thing I bought extra is the brake band.

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      08-06-2011 07:53 PM #18
      Hello everybody,

      I checked all friction plates and steel plates and I found the high clutch is burned.
      This is one of the steel plates of the high clutch



      This is one of the friction plates of the high clutch



      They are no good, need to change them.

      And this is the piston inside the high clutch drum, its all covered with burned ATF


      I also found damage on the low clutch housing, I don't know if I should change these parts or just remove the metal burs. Can anyone tell me if transmission could fail if I only remove the metal instead of replacing these parts?



      I still need to check the wiring harnesses. The rest of the tranny is OK, steel plates and friction discs are OK, only the high clutch is burned. My guessing is that solenoids started failing either because of bad wires or the solenoids themselves. Hardshifting to 4th led to premature wearing of the high clutch. After this, ATF leaked out of the tranny thru a bad axle seal leading to transmission overheating. Excess temperature on an already worn high clutch led to transmission failure.

      What do you guys think? I will post later today what I find on the harnesses.

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      08-07-2011 02:22 AM #19
      Hello everybody,

      I checked all internal harnesses and they are all OK.
      I checked also all solenoids and sensors and they seem to be fine. I cannot check the mechanical operation of the solenoids.

      G182 Turbine-shaft speed sensor 400 to 600 ohms 571
      G265 Intermediate-shaft speed sensor 400 to 600 ohms 587
      G68 Output-shaft speed sensor 400 to 600 ohms 571
      G93 temperature sensor ? 1.89K @ 18ºC room temperature
      N88-SV 1 shift solenoid A 9 to 24 ohms 17.1
      N92-SV5 Shift solenoid C 9 to 24 ohms 16.9
      N91-SV4 TCC solenoid 9 to 24 ohms 17.1
      N282-SV9 2/4 Timing Solenoid 9 to 24 ohms 14.1
      N90-SV3 low-clutch timing solenoid 9 to 24 ohms 17.1
      N281-SV8 Reduction-timing solenoid 9 to 24 ohms 17.2
      N93-SV6 pressure-control solenoid 1 to 5 ohms 3.7
      N89 SV-2 shift solenoid B 9 to 24 ohms 18.1
      N283-SV10 2/4 duty solenoid 1 to 5 ohms 3.7

      I got the 00300 code which is for the G93 and I didn't get the ECT sensor on the ECM so I guess something actually did happen in the tranny that triggered 00300. I think I will just replace G93. I have to keep reading to see how G93 should meassure at certain temperatures.

      I still need to check the transmission to TCM harness. I will do that tomorrow and post what I find.

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      08-09-2011 12:36 PM #20
      Hello everybody,

      I checked the transmission to TCM wire harness and it is OK, no short circuits and no interruptions.
      I can only assume sticky solenoids. What do you smart people think?

      I will replace all 9 solenoids.
      I found this page, in which they explain how they test solenoids at their lab. It's very useful information
      http://rostratransmission.wordpress.com

      I will continue with the tranny assembly and post later with pictures.

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      08-30-2011 12:10 PM #21
      Hello everybody,

      Some were wondering about the check balls position in the valve body.

      Remeber this is for the valve body of an 09A with GNZ code, I don't know if this will change for another code.

      In the positions fully colored with red go chrome check balls and in the positions with three red lines go plastic (I think is plastic) check balls.

      Hope this can help out other people.



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      09-23-2011 01:10 PM #22
      I'm almost done with this rebuild, hehehe. It's taking me an eternity.

      I broke some of the plastic connectors of the harness that connects the solenoids (terminals that are puggled on the solenoids). The harness is OK, it has no broken wires or anything and I don't want to spend another $145 for a new one. Can anyone recomend something to secure the terminals when connected to the solenoids? I was thinking of tubing but I really don't know.


    22. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      09-28-2011 12:34 PM #23
      I love these posts....
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
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      09-28-2011 07:06 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by CoolAirVw View Post
      I love these posts....
      Not funny hehehe

      I found tubing for high temperature but since the metal connector has a secure lock I didn't use anything.

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      09-29-2011 02:15 AM #25
      Hello all,

      Does anyone know howto test the multi function switch?
      I finally turned the car on but it only goes forward at any position. I tried adjusting the switch position but did not work.
      Any suggestions? I checked for co.tinuity on the switch terminals but only 2 showed co.tinuity or gave any reading at all in all positions.

      Thank you

    25. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      09-30-2011 12:34 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by carfreak01 View Post
      Does anyone know howto test the multi function switch?
      You plug in vag-com, then pull up the data group that shows gear position. Then you move the shifter and observe whether it shows P,N,D,3,2,1.
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
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      10-15-2011 11:38 PM #27
      I need help!!!!

      Car was only moving forward after I assembled and installed back the transmission. after reading a post by CoolAirVw I noticed that I left the manual valve un-hooked.
      I removed the pan and valve body, assembled it back together level by level (there are 4 of them) to be able to hook the manual valve, put pan and ATF back again, checked ATF level and erased all DTCs in TCM and ECM.
      Now car pulls forward only in D and 4,3 and 2 and also in TIP it pulls forward, as it is supposed to (haven't taken it for a ride yet) the problem is that reverse is not engaged. When I put selector in R car RPMs go up a little as well as in any of the other gears but car doesn't move.
      I noticed that when the car is off but ignition switch is open I can hear a clicking sound inside the transmission as if solenoids were opening and closing randomly (this is with engine off but ignition on)
      What can the problem be? I read that 4th and reverse are engaged by the manual valve, so if R is forced manually but car doesn't move, does this means that the clutch is not closing? I checked check balls positions and they were OK.

      After I cleared all codes and started the car and moved the selector thru all positions I scanned the TCM again and did not find DTCs.
      I will take the car tomorrow for a ride to see if all 5 speeds are engaged and will post back.

      In the meantime if anyone can help me with this I will appreciate it very much!!!!

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      10-16-2011 05:44 PM #28
      Today I checked ATF pressure at reverse clutch (K2) and it seems to be OK.



      I read this thread
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ddenly-problem

      The problem in this thread was a broken brake band.
      I changed the brake band with a new one and haven't taken the car for a ride yet, can this be the problem?
      Solenoids are new, harness is OK, ATF level is OK, there is pressure at reverse clutch when R is selected, R is also showing on the dash display (F125 switch OK), the only part left to check is the brake band, could I have not assembled it correctly?
      This is so frustrating, I don´t want to take the transmission again.

      Please help!

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      10-17-2011 12:23 PM #29
      I checked ATF pressure for the cylinder that activates the brake band (or at least where I think it should be checked if at all possible) and it does have good pressure.

      Here is where I checked


      And this is the pressure reading


      This is the actual connection


      I still hear the clicking sound where the valve body is located, this clicking happens after I turn the engine off but with the ignition on (or at least is when I hear it, maybe because the engine is louder). If I turn off the ignition the clicking stops and after a few minutes if I turn the ignition on again there are no clicking noises. When I was checking for ATF pressures, the needle was not holding steady at one value it was moving up and down (like in a range of around 4 marks) and I was thinking that maybe this clicking noises really are the solenoids opening and closing and maybe this is happening with the engine running and with gear selected and maybe this is why the needle moves up and down. This clicking started after I hooked the manual valve, maybe I did some damage to the wiring. What do you smart people think?

      I took the car for a test drive and it drove fine, gears changed from 1st to 5th with no problems in auto and in tip. In 5th however it hesitated a little before it engaged it, but still no reverse.
      After a few minutes of driving, all of the sudden the car will not move like it couldn't engage any speed (auto or tip) it was like that for maybe 2 minutes and then it started working again. Drove back home, check for codes and TCM had gear monitoring code and engine torque not detected and it said that maybe the ECU had DTCs stored, check ECU and it had a code for the MAF, I read that a faulty MAF could cause shifting problems, so I'm attributing this to the MAF. I did connected and disconnected MAF several times, maybe I damaged the wires, I have to check it. I erased all codes, turn the car on, move selector thru all gears and check for codes again and found nothing.

      Please try to read my 2 previous posts in this thread.

      Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.

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      10-31-2011 12:04 PM #30
      I forgot to upload these pictures, they may be of help to someone else.
      If manual valve is not hooked, depending on the position it was left, car will not respond to the selector (PRND432)

      Unhooked manual valve


      Manual valve connected


      I used transjel to hold checkballs in their possition.


      I only became aware of this manual valve when I read a post by CoolAirVw, thank you.

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      11-16-2011 08:46 PM #31
      Update.

      My car still has no reverse. Since pressure tests where OK, I removed the tranny and opened it to see if the brake band, which is new.

      Brake band is in its place and correctly installed (at least I think it is)


      Closer look to the piston that closes the band.


      What I did notice is that the brake band is not closing, I say this because prints on the inner side of the band are intact, it's not showing any signs of friction.



      So pressure at reverse clutch is OK, pressure at piston that closes the band is OK but band is not closing, I modified the lenght of the piston a little because I did notice that a significant amount of force (by hand, I know it is minimum compared with the hydraulic force of the transmission) has to be applied for the band to stop the drum, which was not the case with the old band.

      I will install the transmission again during the week and post

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      11-21-2011 09:10 AM #32
      Watching this thread and researching leads me to a question: I see in the catalogs that you can buy different thickness pressure plates. (High clutch has 4 sizes 3.00 to 3.06mm thick, and reverse clutch also has 4 size but in a bigger range 3.60 to 4.2mm.)

      I assume this is like buying oversized pistons when rebuilding a motor. But how do you know which thickness to order? I guess you need the manual to tell you the total pack thickness (frictions and steels) should be, right?

      If you order a set, steels and frictions, are they matched up?

      I haven't re-read this entire thread, but if you bought standard thickness frictions and re-used possibly worn steels, that could be a problem I think.

    32. Member
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      Jun 13th, 2009
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      501
      Vehicles
      2003/VW/1.8T Jetta 5sp Automatic
      11-21-2011 03:34 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_M View Post
      Watching this thread and researching leads me to a question: I see in the catalogs that you can buy different thickness pressure plates. (High clutch has 4 sizes 3.00 to 3.06mm thick, and reverse clutch also has 4 size but in a bigger range 3.60 to 4.2mm.)

      I assume this is like buying oversized pistons when rebuilding a motor. But how do you know which thickness to order? I guess you need the manual to tell you the total pack thickness (frictions and steels) should be, right?

      If you order a set, steels and frictions, are they matched up?

      I haven't re-read this entire thread, but if you bought standard thickness frictions and re-used possibly worn steels, that could be a problem I think.
      You could be on to something with this, but I should at least see slippage....but car is not moving backwards at all. forward gears at all ok...car runs fine and changes are smooth..i do not notice lack of speed that could make me suspect of tranny slipping....but since the brake band is not showing any signs of friction I will address that issue first and see if that fixes this problem.

    33. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 13th, 2009
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      501
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      2003/VW/1.8T Jetta 5sp Automatic
      01-01-2012 04:26 PM #34
      Hello everybody.

      First of all, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

      I started this year working on my car.
      My car still has no reverse.
      So far I've changed all 9 solenoids, all frictions, high clutch metals, all rubber bands and seals, brake band, high clutch piston, filtr and atf. I cleaned the VB, change gaskets, replace plastic checkballs (I knstalled them back in the same position).
      Car runs fine forward but no reverse, ATF presure at reverse clutch checked out ok as well as presure at piston that activates the brake band. High steady presure on both.
      Removed trans again to check brake band condition amd it still has the inner markings and it's not presenting any signs of friction, I compared it with the old brake band and old one doesn't need too much force to stop the drum but new band does, I gave a little more lenght to the piston rod that pushes the brake band and reinstalled transmission, poured ATF until level was reached.
      Turn engine on moved selector thru all gears, car's ok on all except reverse, now when R is selected, I can feel car pulling back a little but when accelerating it does not move at all. Disconected battery and transmission to TCM harness to activate limp mode and tried again but it does the same.
      I think I should give a little more lenght to the brake band piston.
      Can any of the experts give me a little advice?

      Thank you.

    34. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 13th, 2009
      Location
      San Diego
      Posts
      501
      Vehicles
      2003/VW/1.8T Jetta 5sp Automatic
      01-02-2012 04:43 PM #35
      Anyone can help?
      I gave a little more lenght to the brake band piston but still nothing, I checked for atf preasure again at reverse clutch and it is showing enogh preasure.
      I know is not an electronic problem because since it is in limp mode, reverse is forced but car is not moving in reverse.
      Any help....am I ok to doubt the brake band?....when inspecting the brake band I checked that sprag clutch was turning one way and not to the other and it is working like that.

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