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    Thread: 09A GNZ transmission problem

    1. Member CoolAirVw's Avatar
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      09-30-2011 11:34 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by carfreak01 View Post
      Does anyone know howto test the multi function switch?
      You plug in vag-com, then pull up the data group that shows gear position. Then you move the shifter and observe whether it shows P,N,D,3,2,1.
      Auto trans fluid change or flush will not make a trans fail. Stop spreading the wives tale/urban myth.
      ASE Master Certified Technician with L1 Advanced Diagnostic Rating Recently passed ASE certification for Light Diesel repair.
      www.KansasCityTdi.com

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      10-15-2011 10:38 PM #27
      I need help!!!!

      Car was only moving forward after I assembled and installed back the transmission. after reading a post by CoolAirVw I noticed that I left the manual valve un-hooked.
      I removed the pan and valve body, assembled it back together level by level (there are 4 of them) to be able to hook the manual valve, put pan and ATF back again, checked ATF level and erased all DTCs in TCM and ECM.
      Now car pulls forward only in D and 4,3 and 2 and also in TIP it pulls forward, as it is supposed to (haven't taken it for a ride yet) the problem is that reverse is not engaged. When I put selector in R car RPMs go up a little as well as in any of the other gears but car doesn't move.
      I noticed that when the car is off but ignition switch is open I can hear a clicking sound inside the transmission as if solenoids were opening and closing randomly (this is with engine off but ignition on)
      What can the problem be? I read that 4th and reverse are engaged by the manual valve, so if R is forced manually but car doesn't move, does this means that the clutch is not closing? I checked check balls positions and they were OK.

      After I cleared all codes and started the car and moved the selector thru all positions I scanned the TCM again and did not find DTCs.
      I will take the car tomorrow for a ride to see if all 5 speeds are engaged and will post back.

      In the meantime if anyone can help me with this I will appreciate it very much!!!!

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      10-16-2011 04:44 PM #28
      Today I checked ATF pressure at reverse clutch (K2) and it seems to be OK.



      I read this thread
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ddenly-problem

      The problem in this thread was a broken brake band.
      I changed the brake band with a new one and haven't taken the car for a ride yet, can this be the problem?
      Solenoids are new, harness is OK, ATF level is OK, there is pressure at reverse clutch when R is selected, R is also showing on the dash display (F125 switch OK), the only part left to check is the brake band, could I have not assembled it correctly?
      This is so frustrating, I don´t want to take the transmission again.

      Please help!

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      10-17-2011 11:23 AM #29
      I checked ATF pressure for the cylinder that activates the brake band (or at least where I think it should be checked if at all possible) and it does have good pressure.

      Here is where I checked


      And this is the pressure reading


      This is the actual connection


      I still hear the clicking sound where the valve body is located, this clicking happens after I turn the engine off but with the ignition on (or at least is when I hear it, maybe because the engine is louder). If I turn off the ignition the clicking stops and after a few minutes if I turn the ignition on again there are no clicking noises. When I was checking for ATF pressures, the needle was not holding steady at one value it was moving up and down (like in a range of around 4 marks) and I was thinking that maybe this clicking noises really are the solenoids opening and closing and maybe this is happening with the engine running and with gear selected and maybe this is why the needle moves up and down. This clicking started after I hooked the manual valve, maybe I did some damage to the wiring. What do you smart people think?

      I took the car for a test drive and it drove fine, gears changed from 1st to 5th with no problems in auto and in tip. In 5th however it hesitated a little before it engaged it, but still no reverse.
      After a few minutes of driving, all of the sudden the car will not move like it couldn't engage any speed (auto or tip) it was like that for maybe 2 minutes and then it started working again. Drove back home, check for codes and TCM had gear monitoring code and engine torque not detected and it said that maybe the ECU had DTCs stored, check ECU and it had a code for the MAF, I read that a faulty MAF could cause shifting problems, so I'm attributing this to the MAF. I did connected and disconnected MAF several times, maybe I damaged the wires, I have to check it. I erased all codes, turn the car on, move selector thru all gears and check for codes again and found nothing.

      Please try to read my 2 previous posts in this thread.

      Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.

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      10-31-2011 11:04 AM #30
      I forgot to upload these pictures, they may be of help to someone else.
      If manual valve is not hooked, depending on the position it was left, car will not respond to the selector (PRND432)

      Unhooked manual valve


      Manual valve connected


      I used transjel to hold checkballs in their possition.


      I only became aware of this manual valve when I read a post by CoolAirVw, thank you.

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      11-16-2011 07:46 PM #31
      Update.

      My car still has no reverse. Since pressure tests where OK, I removed the tranny and opened it to see if the brake band, which is new.

      Brake band is in its place and correctly installed (at least I think it is)


      Closer look to the piston that closes the band.


      What I did notice is that the brake band is not closing, I say this because prints on the inner side of the band are intact, it's not showing any signs of friction.



      So pressure at reverse clutch is OK, pressure at piston that closes the band is OK but band is not closing, I modified the lenght of the piston a little because I did notice that a significant amount of force (by hand, I know it is minimum compared with the hydraulic force of the transmission) has to be applied for the band to stop the drum, which was not the case with the old band.

      I will install the transmission again during the week and post

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      11-21-2011 08:10 AM #32
      Watching this thread and researching leads me to a question: I see in the catalogs that you can buy different thickness pressure plates. (High clutch has 4 sizes 3.00 to 3.06mm thick, and reverse clutch also has 4 size but in a bigger range 3.60 to 4.2mm.)

      I assume this is like buying oversized pistons when rebuilding a motor. But how do you know which thickness to order? I guess you need the manual to tell you the total pack thickness (frictions and steels) should be, right?

      If you order a set, steels and frictions, are they matched up?

      I haven't re-read this entire thread, but if you bought standard thickness frictions and re-used possibly worn steels, that could be a problem I think.

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      11-21-2011 02:34 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_M View Post
      Watching this thread and researching leads me to a question: I see in the catalogs that you can buy different thickness pressure plates. (High clutch has 4 sizes 3.00 to 3.06mm thick, and reverse clutch also has 4 size but in a bigger range 3.60 to 4.2mm.)

      I assume this is like buying oversized pistons when rebuilding a motor. But how do you know which thickness to order? I guess you need the manual to tell you the total pack thickness (frictions and steels) should be, right?

      If you order a set, steels and frictions, are they matched up?

      I haven't re-read this entire thread, but if you bought standard thickness frictions and re-used possibly worn steels, that could be a problem I think.
      You could be on to something with this, but I should at least see slippage....but car is not moving backwards at all. forward gears at all ok...car runs fine and changes are smooth..i do not notice lack of speed that could make me suspect of tranny slipping....but since the brake band is not showing any signs of friction I will address that issue first and see if that fixes this problem.

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      01-01-2012 03:26 PM #34
      Hello everybody.

      First of all, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

      I started this year working on my car.
      My car still has no reverse.
      So far I've changed all 9 solenoids, all frictions, high clutch metals, all rubber bands and seals, brake band, high clutch piston, filtr and atf. I cleaned the VB, change gaskets, replace plastic checkballs (I knstalled them back in the same position).
      Car runs fine forward but no reverse, ATF presure at reverse clutch checked out ok as well as presure at piston that activates the brake band. High steady presure on both.
      Removed trans again to check brake band condition amd it still has the inner markings and it's not presenting any signs of friction, I compared it with the old brake band and old one doesn't need too much force to stop the drum but new band does, I gave a little more lenght to the piston rod that pushes the brake band and reinstalled transmission, poured ATF until level was reached.
      Turn engine on moved selector thru all gears, car's ok on all except reverse, now when R is selected, I can feel car pulling back a little but when accelerating it does not move at all. Disconected battery and transmission to TCM harness to activate limp mode and tried again but it does the same.
      I think I should give a little more lenght to the brake band piston.
      Can any of the experts give me a little advice?

      Thank you.

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      01-02-2012 03:43 PM #35
      Anyone can help?
      I gave a little more lenght to the brake band piston but still nothing, I checked for atf preasure again at reverse clutch and it is showing enogh preasure.
      I know is not an electronic problem because since it is in limp mode, reverse is forced but car is not moving in reverse.
      Any help....am I ok to doubt the brake band?....when inspecting the brake band I checked that sprag clutch was turning one way and not to the other and it is working like that.

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      01-03-2012 12:22 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by carfreak01 View Post
      Anyone can help?
      Sorry, I don't have any specific suggestions. But have you seen and followed the assembly instructions in the workshop manual here: http://foor.ee/m6/Mazda6/English/1738-1E-02D.pdf ? (Mazda, but same Jatco transmission). Look especially at the clearance specifications. Also, maybe check the reverse inhibit: supposed to inhibit low and reverse brake over 19 MPH, so no damage if R is selected accidently when moving forward.

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      01-03-2012 07:13 AM #37
      Carfreak01,

      What pressures are you seeing and at which ports? Reduction band or reverse clutch pressure taps? Are you seeing an increase in pressure as you increase the engine speed with your foot on the brake? It is likely not the reduction band if you are seeing all forward gears and no slipping here. If you only have no reverse I would look at the the low/reverse clutch and reverse clutch as these are ONLY used in "R". the manual linked at by Charlie_M is so-so, but it may have the proper reduction servo adjustment procedure inside as you said that you changed this in hopes it would help. It may now be out of "spec" and needs to corrected or you will have issues later due to either slipping or dragging of the band during operation. Tell me what pressures you saw and where and whether you see an increase and we'll go from there. If you need anything else such as the servo adjustment procedure, let me know.

      Also, whenever one inspects the clutch material, even on a used transmission just about to be rebuilt, the builder wants to see the writing on the material as this shows minimal wear and glazing/burning and can even be used as verification for the new clutches. Don't hope to find the writing worn off as this is a bad sign, especially on a fresh rebuild. However, some clutches don't have writing on them at all, even when new, so don't jump to conclusions if it is missing. This all comes with experience so keep up your inquisitive nature and don't get bummed out by this bump in the road, you're almost in the clear! Good Luck!

      Brad

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      01-03-2012 11:42 AM #38
      Thank you for your reply.

      I measured pressure at reverse clutch and at brake band actuator...for both reading was between 200 and 225psi at idle. When gauge was conected to reverse clutch (K2 on self study programme) gauge was at 0 when selector wasn't on R (as expected), whem selector is on R reading will go up to 225psi at idle.
      I took a picture of the gauge while measuring pressure, click on any of the pictures of this thread and it will redirect you to my images on imageshack.com
      The markings I was not expecting to see due to friction or at least worn were the ones on the friction material of the brake band, is not showing any signs of friction, either is not closing or is closing but low clutch is not moving thus not creatong friction when brake band is closing. Since it is not an electronic issue I think I will have to remove the tranny again, but I need to know where to look or what to look for.

      Thank you for your help I really appreciate it.

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      01-03-2012 11:57 AM #39
      Brad,

      I don't have the servo adjustment procedures, if you can provide it will be very helpful.

      While looing at the link Charlie-M provided I saw ATF going to brake band and to low clutch with the activation of the same valve but with different ports, I realized I haven't checked for atf pressure at low clutch, if it's possible to check it I will, don't know if there's a port to do so.

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      01-03-2012 05:09 PM #40
      Hello.....the link provided by Charlie_M shows a servo adjustment procedure:
      -tighten piston stem
      -loosen stem 5 rotations.

      Brad, is this the same procedure you have?
      I will do this tonight and see what I find.

      I did not checl for clearences when assembling, I will leave this for last since I have to remove the transmission for mw to do this.

      Thank you

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      01-03-2012 06:31 PM #41
      Send me an email at bmjohnson@huskers.unl.edu and I will send you the PDF. Haven't figured out how to post those here yet.

      Brad

    17. 03-11-2012 11:24 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by bjohns86 View Post
      Send me an email at bmjohnson@huskers.unl.edu and I will send you the PDF. Haven't figured out how to post those here yet.

      Brad
      I hit some road debris and cracked the casing in multiple places. I took the tranny out, took it apart, Got the casing welded, put it back together with new seals. My problem now is that I have no reverse. Seems like a similiar problem to yours. I did not take any pressure measurements anywhere though and have no codes set. I did notice some grinding when I shifted from D to P, this happend twice. When I went to back out of the garage There was no reverse.

      Did you find the problem for the reverse? How did you find it and what was the solution?

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      04-14-2012 02:06 AM #43
      if u still have issues, remove the valve body and behind it there are 2 O rings .....I bet u a case of whatever u like to drink that u forgot to put it on (u r missing one)

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      05-02-2012 01:56 PM #44
      Hi Everybody,

      I just want to continue with this until it is resolved, maybe the information I post here can be of help to someone else.
      The last issue with the tranny was that it had high pressure on all gears, but it worked fine. I removed the VB to see if the issue was there but everything was OK, then assembled it back and tested for pressure and now it has no pressure on low clutch, I checked the reverse clutch and it has pressure and car pulls back with enough force, so the pump is working properly. I scanned the ECM and TCM but found NO codes. Then I unplugged the TCM to make it go into limp mode so 4th and R were available but still no pressure in the low clutch port. I removed the VB again checked every single valve and solenoid and harnesses but everything was OK, I assembled back and I still have no pressure in the low clutch port and high pressure in the low/reverse clutch port.
      I can assume is not the pressure control valve or the N93 (line pressure) solenoid since there is pressure in R.
      Car moves when in D but I have to accelerate like if it was slipping but gauge needle doesn't move so I'm assuming pressure is way too low.

      The o-rings behind the VB are present, I made sure they were there and in good condition, I placed new ones when rebuilding the tranny.

      I will keep looking into this and post later, if you have any advice I will appreciate if you share them.

      Thank you,
      Jose Luis

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      05-05-2012 02:11 PM #45
      Update:

      I scanned again the ECM and TCM before starting to perform any testing and found out that transmission was in limp mode, it showed all solenoid valves with short circuit either to ground or positive but it showed them as intermittent errors so I thought since the battery was unplugged when I plugged it back maybe the TCM detected a few errors and since they are intermittent then maybe those aren't really failures. I erased all codes and turn engine on, with pressure gauge plugged at low clutch port put it in drive and no signs of pressure, put the car in reverse and it pulled back strong.
      Then I scanned again the ECM and TCM and found the same errors, all solenoids with short circuit to ground or positive.
      It's odd that all solenoid valves are no good, I don't think that all the new solenoids are bad or that the entire harness is bad....maybe the TCM is no good?...and this is why it is in limp mode all the time?...I will have to look for another TCM and test it.

      I also found 17748 error which is Camshaft Position Sensor G40/ Engine speed sensor G28 incorrect correlation, but I checked the three speed sensors and they are all OK, I don't know if this can trigger faults in the TCM.

      Any thoughts????.....I need advice from the experts....CoolAirVW...Brad????

      Thank you,
      Jose Luis

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      05-06-2012 11:05 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by carfreak01 View Post
      Update:

      I scanned again the ECM and TCM before starting to perform any testing and found out that transmission was in limp mode, it showed all solenoid valves with short circuit either to ground or positive but it showed them as intermittent errors so I thought since the battery was unplugged when I plugged it back maybe the TCM detected a few errors and since they are intermittent then maybe those aren't really failures.
      Are you using VCDS or a generic scanner? Can you post all the codes? It may be showing "intermittent" because the TCM will *not* keep trying if a short or open is detected. Once it detects an electrical problem, limp mode is triggered and you get only 4th and reverse (and that is mechanical, I believe, based on the linkage position only). In limp mode, all of the gear indicators are in 'reverse video', ie white letters on black backgrounds.

      I erased all codes and turn engine on, with pressure gauge plugged at low clutch port put it in drive and no signs of pressure, put the car in reverse and it pulled back strong.
      Then I scanned again the ECM and TCM and found the same errors, all solenoids with short circuit to ground or positive.
      It's odd that all solenoid valves are no good, I don't think that all the new solenoids are bad or that the entire harness is bad....maybe the TCM is no good?...and this is why it is in limp mode all the time?...I will have to look for another TCM and test it.
      Testing another TCM is a good idea, but you first should rule out harness problems and solenoid problems the old fashioned way ... with an ohm meter. And as CoolAirVW likes to point out , ohm testing is not conclusive unless they test bad. If you get all solenoid codes right away, chances are you will find something. Guidelines for ohm testing are in the FAQ, but post back if you have more questions about it.

      I also found 17748 error which is Camshaft Position Sensor G40/ Engine speed sensor G28 incorrect correlation, but I checked the three speed sensors and they are all OK, I don't know if this can trigger faults in the TCM.

      Any thoughts????.....I need advice from the experts....CoolAirVW...Brad????

      Thank you,
      Jose Luis
      Jose, it seems to me that you have at least *three* separate problems going on that make it harder to diagnose.

      1. Solenoid codes causing limp mode: this is always electrical AFAIK. Need to find the cause and fix it.
      2. No forward (but was no reverse earlier, right?) Even in limp mode, you should be able to move forward in 4th. If you can't, and you don't see pressure in the right port, that tells me there may be a mechanical problem with the selector linkage to cause this.
      3. Your 17748 code is engine related, not related to the tranny. G40 and G28 refer to the cam position sensor and the crank position sensor (60-2 tooth on the crank), both on the motor. The TCM does get an engine speed signal (which is how it finds unexpected slipping), but that sensor is in the tranny. That code in particular could be caused by several different things, and should be fixed, but would not cause your transmission issue.



      Hope this helps. I haven't re-read your whole thread, but kudos for sticking it out and posting updates.

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      05-06-2012 01:38 PM #47
      Hey Charlie_M thank you for your response.

      I'm using VCDS, I don't have the codes at hand right now but I will get them later and post them.
      The indicators on the dash are not in "reverse video" but transmission is acting as it was in limp mode. Car will move forward is in D but I have to accelerate it otherwise it will not move but even when starting to move forwards, gauge plugged at low clutch port will not show any pressure. If cars needs higher RPMs to move when in D then it might be because is in a higher gear, maybe 4th? but when in R it pulls back strong. Gauge when in R port it shows high pressure even at idle. Based on this two situations, I think TCM is in limp mode.
      The no reverse issue I found at the beggining was that I left the manual valve unhooked and the piston for multidisc brake B2 (I think it was B2) unaligned, once I fixed those issues, R became available and forward gears were available and TCM was not showing error codes but pressure at low clutch port and R port was higher than it should be when at idle, so I dissasembled the VB to ensure that I had left everything correct but when I assembled it back and installed it back in the transmission I encountered this "no pressure at low clutch port", after that, I removed again the VB and checked valve by valve and all of them were assembled correctly, I also ohm checked all nine solenoids and they checked out OK, I also checked harnesses and they were OK, I put everything back together but still no pressure on low clutch port. This is when I checked for codes and found all solenoids with intermittent errors, I erased them and test again but no change, checked for codes again and found all nine solenoids again with intermittent errors.
      I will try to ohm check the solenoids with them inside the tranny, maybe from the harness of the TCM if they check out OK I will look for another TCM and try that.

      Thank you,
      Jose Luis

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      05-06-2012 03:19 PM #48
      Update:

      I ohm-checked the solenoids but from the TCM end of the harness, so I will see what the TCM is seeing, this is what I found:

      N88 --> 8ohms (Spec: 9-24ohms)
      N89 --> 8ohms (Spec: 9-24ohms)
      N92 --> 20ohms (Spec: 9-24ohms)
      N90 --> 20ohms (Spec: 9-24ohms)
      N282 --> 19ohms (Spec: 1-5ohms) NO GOOD
      N281 --> 20ohms (Spec: 9-24ohms)
      N283 --> 16ohms (Spec: 9-24ohms)
      N91 --> 19ohms (Spec: 9-24ohms)
      N93 --> 19ohms (Spec: 1-5ohms) NO GOOD
      G182 Speed Sensor --> 556ohms (Spec: 400-600ohms)
      G265 Speed Sensor --> 556ohms (Spec: 400-600ohms)
      G68 Speed Sensor --> 569ohms (Spec: 400-600ohms)

      I think that TCM is OK, I think that my next step should be to remove the transmission's oil pan (for the "n"th time) and unplug the solenoids and measure them individually, at least N282 and N93.
      Also I will check the internal solenoid harness.

      With G68 measuring correctly, I think the error code 17748 is due to camshaft position sensor, I will check G28.

      Any input will be very much appreciated.

      Jose Luis

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      05-06-2012 06:25 PM #49
      Please disregard my previous post.

      The readings I took from the TCM end of the harness I took them with the ground of the harness not the ground comming from the VB. Also, what I posted as specs for N282 and N283 are incorrect.
      Check coolvdub's post for correct resistance of solenoids for 09A.
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ation-Function

      I removed all the solenoids and ohm checked them one by one and they all checked out OK. I removed from the transmission the solenoid harness and check it for continuity and it is OK too.

      I also check continuity from the end where the solenoid harness plugs in and the TCM end of the harness and there is no interruption in any of the 10 pins (see pictures below).

      None of the wirings show a significant resistance that could make the TCM look at a different value

      TCM end of harness


      End where the solenoid harness plugs into


      Could it be the TCM is no longer good? I think that my next step is to find known good TCM and try it.

      Any input will be very much appreciated.

      Jose Luis

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      05-06-2012 09:30 PM #50
      Update:

      So after measuring and re-measuring, I found a slight difference between the old N93 and the new N93 solenoid.
      When I measured N93 between tab (tab = tip where harness connects to) and ground, it gave me the expected resistance, but then I tried measuring between tab and the body of the solenoid and it gave me a reading I tried again and got nothing and then again and it gave me a reading.
      Luckly I kept the old solenoids and check N93 and it gave me the expected reading between tab and ground terminal but it did not gave me any reading between tab and solenoid body.
      Is this a case of short circuit? (see pictures below)

      New N93, measuring between ground and tab.


      New N93, measuring between tab and solenoid body.


      Old N93, measuring between ground and tab.


      Old N93, measuring between tab and solenoid body.


      I really don't want to assemble again and find that TCM still shows error codes, by the way, I connected the solenoid harness again to all solenoids and TCM showed no error codes. But I think I have to turn the engine on and run selector through all gears so it can show codes in case it has failures, since oil pan is down I didn't do it. I want to make sure about this N93 issue first.

      Any input will be very much appreciated.
      Jose Luis

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