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    Thread: Drake 16v heads for sale

    1. 04-11-2011 12:51 PM #26
      I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

      Drake 16v Motor Pictures:



















    2. Senior Member cyclops594's Avatar
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      04-11-2011 12:54 PM #27
      Very, very cool!
      Last edited by cyclops594; 04-11-2011 at 12:59 PM.

    3. 04-11-2011 01:00 PM #28
      I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.












































































    4. 04-11-2011 01:05 PM #29
      I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

      Drake 16v Cams & Combusion Chamber:

















    5. 04-11-2011 01:08 PM #30
      I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

      Drake 16v Intake (FI and variants)



















    6. 04-11-2011 01:13 PM #31
      I highly recommend somebody archive these photos because eventually I'll take them down. I'll promise to leave them at my server for at least two years. But I still recommend somebody download and archive these photos.

      Dry Sump:












      Pistons:












      Molds:





    7. 04-11-2011 01:19 PM #32

    8. Senior Member cyclops594's Avatar
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      04-11-2011 01:43 PM #33

    9. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      04-11-2011 03:31 PM #34
      Someone who's rich needs to get on this! Amazing that this window into history has been opened and a huge thanks to Mr. Collins for getting this info out to the masses. I remember reading about the drake stuff in that old VW Performance book from the 80's by Greg Raven, and even then they were considered Unicorn parts. You would never see them, you would never have them, and be glad you even know they existed.

      Again, thank you for showing us all this stuff, truly amazing!
      Quote Originally Posted by wilm13 View Post
      I refuse to say anything but A1, A2 and A3. As far as I am concerned VW stopped making cars after that.

    10. Member 1983rabbitgti's Avatar
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      04-11-2011 06:44 PM #35
      if i had the cash.....

      "brand new reproduction drake 16v heads for sale"

      almost every guy with a 16v would want one. this is baller.
      Fur die Liebe des Fahrens. Nicht einen Schwanz zu werden

    11. Senior Member cyclops594's Avatar
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      04-11-2011 08:43 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
      huge thanks to Mr. Collins for getting this info out to the masses.

      Again, thank you for showing us all this stuff, truly amazing!
      X2!

    12. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      04-11-2011 09:55 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
      ... I remember reading about the drake stuff in that old VW Performance book from the 80's by Greg Raven..
      You don't still have your's? That book was my bible back in the late 80's

      Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
      ..and even then they were considered Unicorn parts. You would never see them, you would never have them, and be glad you even know they existed.
      ha, yea. I had the Drake catalog in the 80's and still have the vision of the super V engine pictured on the Dyno. Either on the cover or on the 1st page (I forget). I really with I still had it, but I think it got cleaned out with a lot of my VW & P magazines

      This is definitely some cool stuff. If I had the coin, I would buy the whole lot of stuff.
      Build: Project sc2020

      My G60 now on MS3 | 4Cyl Torque Plate Rental | 02M Mounts

    13. 04-12-2011 12:04 AM #38



    14. 04-12-2011 12:06 AM #39
      Here's something I just thought of. That "junk" short block might not be so "junk" after all. When I worked at Drake, we used the Okrasa crankshaft for all of our racing motors. That crankshaft alone might make buying that shortblock worth it (and the dry sump doesn't hurt either).

    15. Banned Digital K.'s Avatar
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      04-13-2011 11:44 PM #40
      $5000 doesn't seem realistic to me -- it seems too low. Stewart did tell one guy $5000, but that was with the provision that price was only good if multiple heads were sold. The one-off price would most likely be $6500-$7200. If you saw one of these heads in person, you'd know why they aren't cheap to manufacture. They are one of the most beautiful designed heads I've ever seen.
      I laughed. this is still vw stuff man! You are talking ferrari cylinder heads at those prices... I mean...all of that stuff is going to have to be gone through by an expert machinist since they werent valuable enough to whoever owned them to take good care of them in the first place. Its going to cost a small fortune to get one of these going properly again. when I saw the thread, in my head I went "if its around $1500 I'll get one". But man... 7 large? I think I'd rather own a 911 so I had an engine worth putting $10,000-$12,000 into? At least then I'd be driving a panty dropper. Instead of an econobox.

      That said. Its amazing these parts still exist. Any of us would love to make something like this work, as an homage to one of the old greats. its too bad they werent found by someone who wants to restore and use them, rather than someone so unplugged they left them rot in storage for 25 years.

      why are the original prices blacked out in the image above?
      Last edited by Digital K.; 04-13-2011 at 11:57 PM.

    16. 04-14-2011 12:41 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Digital K. View Post
      I laughed. this is still vw stuff man! You are talking ferrari cylinder heads at those prices... I mean...all of that stuff is going to have to be gone through by an expert machinist since they werent valuable enough to whoever owned them to take good care of them in the first place. Its going to cost a small fortune to get one of these going properly again. when I saw the thread, in my head I went "if its around $1500 I'll get one". But man... 7 large? I think I'd rather own a 911 so I had an engine worth putting $10,000-$12,000 into? At least then I'd be driving a panty dropper. Instead of an econobox.

      That said. Its amazing these parts still exist. Any of us would love to make something like this work, as an homage to one of the old greats. its too bad they werent found by someone who wants to restore and use them, rather than someone so unplugged they left them rot in storage for 25 years.

      why are the original prices blacked out in the image above?
      A couple of clarifications here.

      The only heads that are for sale are brand new from castings haven't even been machined yet. There are enough castings to make five new heads. The current owner also owns the design, molds, and CnC programming. If somebody wanted 100 of them, they could be made.

      These are the left-overs when John Drake retired, and sold to his former engine builder who now has his own racing shop in Huntington Beach, CA. They were never left in storage to rot, and the castings look like they just came from the foundry. If I showed pictures of the castings, it doesn't give anybody an idea what an assembled head looks like. That's why I photographed the completed heads and partically disassembled head so others could see what it looks like inside and out.

      I hope that makes more sense now.

    17. 04-14-2011 12:43 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Digital K. View Post
      why are the original prices blacked out in the image above?
      Stewart asked that I black out the original 1985 prices.

    18. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      04-14-2011 12:47 AM #43
      Well probably because.........


      Quote Originally Posted by chippievw View Post
      Because I love cylinder heads



      >
      Quote Originally Posted by wilm13 View Post
      I refuse to say anything but A1, A2 and A3. As far as I am concerned VW stopped making cars after that.

    19. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      04-14-2011 12:56 AM #44
      It's also worth saying that $3500 in 1985 is about $7k today, so relatively speaking it's the "same" money. Not that this head didn't cost about 1/3 the price of a new GTI then, or now. It's still big coin.
      Quote Originally Posted by wilm13 View Post
      I refuse to say anything but A1, A2 and A3. As far as I am concerned VW stopped making cars after that.

    20. Banned Digital K.'s Avatar
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      04-14-2011 01:07 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
      A couple of clarifications here.

      The only heads that are for sale are brand new from castings haven't even been machined yet. There are enough castings to make five new heads. The current owner also owns the design, molds, and CnC programming. If somebody wanted 100 of them, they could be made.

      These are the left-overs when John Drake retired, and sold to his former engine builder who now has his own racing shop in Huntington Beach, CA. They were never left in storage to rot, and the castings look like they just came from the foundry. If I showed pictures of the castings, it doesn't give anybody an idea what an assembled head looks like. That's why I photographed the completed heads and partically disassembled head so others could see what it looks like inside and out.

      I hope that makes more sense now.
      Quote Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
      Stewart asked that I black out the original 1985 prices.
      Realistically no one cares what the original price was. Its a historical piece, and the original price has little bearing on what its valued at today.... however the guilty conscience evident from the blacking out the original price is stupid. Why do that?

      So you are talking around $7000 for a complete head with new cams, all new valves and etc? How much is the manifold to go with it and such? Just trying to get a bearing on what realistically is going on here. I've had $2500 into some ****box 16v 9a head. You are not TOO Far off, but I think the original 5000$ idea for a NEWLY built item, is a bit closer, albeit, just a bit too much for me personally to bear. Plus the additional expenses of all the **** needed to make it work? I dunno man. Theres probably only a couple people in the country that would do that. They have more money than brains.

      In my humble opinion there just isn't enough money in the old school market to bear the weight of the costs you are talking about. Im just being honest with you. Of course this is all my opinion and I may be wrong. From a "i have money and would actually buy this ****" standpoint it just might not happen at that price. Especially not considering theres a lot more to go into this than just a head.

      Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
      It's also worth saying that $3500 in 1985 is about $7k today, so relatively speaking it's the "same" money. Not that this head didn't cost about 1/3 the price of a new GTI then, or now. It's still big coin.
      Back in the day this was the latest greatest **** for the newest hottest **** racing on legitimately competitive circuits. The people that would have bought that stuff and have the money to do so drive new TDI cup cars, and FSI ****. Know what I mean?

      just rambling my thoughts....

    21. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      04-14-2011 01:22 AM #46
      I see where you're coming from Kris, and I'm with you. When I look at how much it would cost to make one these actually happen, in the car, and running, I think it's in the neiborhood of $10-15k. That said, there are people who are near that dollar level on vw motors or oettinger builds. I guess my point is that if a person was in the market to build a doomsday NA motor, then this would be a viable option.

      Consider what it would cost to do a full tilt vw head, full schrick solid lifter, big valve, etc, I would imagine that would be $5k easy, never priced it out because that's way too rich for my blood.

      I think these heads are an amazing piece of engineering and history all rolled up into one, and all any of us really want to see is someone, anyone, put one in a street car.
      Quote Originally Posted by wilm13 View Post
      I refuse to say anything but A1, A2 and A3. As far as I am concerned VW stopped making cars after that.

    22. Banned Digital K.'s Avatar
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      04-14-2011 01:43 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
      I see where you're coming from Kris, and I'm with you. When I look at how much it would cost to make one these actually happen, in the car, and running, I think it's in the neiborhood of $10-15k. That said, there are people who are near that dollar level on vw motors or oettinger builds. I guess my point is that if a person was in the market to build a doomsday NA motor, then this would be a viable option.

      Consider what it would cost to do a full tilt vw head, full schrick solid lifter, big valve, etc, I would imagine that would be $5k easy, never priced it out because that's way too rich for my blood.

      I think these heads are an amazing piece of engineering and history all rolled up into one, and all any of us really want to see is someone, anyone, put one in a street car.
      I think there might be a market for this in europe, as vw's are their hotrods. Theres guys here that will put a 20,000$ motor all day long into their old ****box chevy. its the same in europe. vw's and **** like that are their hotrods. I just dont think its the same gig over here in terms of the amount of people willing to do something like this.

      For reference I had krom build me a head. the works. everything. I think I ended up right at around $3000 or $3500 once I was done with it. I had $2500 into some other head. However, I can slap whatever manifold on those, and down the road I go. I can also buy valves and lifters if something goes wrong.

      And by people building oettinger builds like that, you mean PERSON right?

    23. Member g60vw's Avatar
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      04-14-2011 01:51 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Digital K. View Post

      And by people building oettinger builds like that, you mean PERSON right?
      I LOL'd!


      I built a 16v once. It cost twice as much as I planned and so far is about 20-30 hp shy of my original conservative goal. My next 16v build won't even be a build. Stock. 200hp at the crank. Oh I forgot, it's an FSI and sitting on a stand waiting..........


      I'm sorry that I have derailed this thread so far, I will stop.
      Quote Originally Posted by wilm13 View Post
      I refuse to say anything but A1, A2 and A3. As far as I am concerned VW stopped making cars after that.

    24. Banned Digital K.'s Avatar
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      04-14-2011 01:53 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
      I LOL'd!


      I built a 16v once. It cost twice as much as I planned and so far is about 20-30 hp shy of my original conservative goal. My next 16v build won't even be a build. Stock. 200hp at the crank. Oh I forgot, it's an FSI and sitting on a stand waiting..........


      I'm sorry that I have derailed this thread so far, I will stop.
      its a discussion board. don't worry about it.

    25. 04-14-2011 11:28 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Digital K. View Post
      ...However, I can slap whatever manifold on those, and down the road I go. I can also buy valves and lifters if something goes wrong...
      The Drake 16v head is more serviceable than people might realize. All of the valve seats, valve guides, valves, valve stem seals, valve springs, and cam followers are off the shelf components -- just not necessarily all VW components. In that regard, this head is no different than any other head: all of the parts are readily available as off the shelf components, provided you know which parts to order. Anybody doing an engine build on this head would be given all of the service data for replacement parts.

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