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    Thread: Most Off-Road Capable Stock Vehicle

    1. Member Amdek's Avatar
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      03-18-2011 01:33 PM #26
      pretty hard to beat a stock wrangler IMO


      This is my Dads 01 4.0 up by crown king. We took the back way up that day ( lake pleasant @castle rock - crown king)


      *NOT my video* but this shows the back road. 14+ miles of relatively punishing terrain, lots of vehicles meet their demise out there but our wrangler was tough as nails and did just fine in 100% stock trim, we didn't use spotters or even take our time


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24hci6bQTb0

    2. 03-18-2011 02:12 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel! View Post
      Sorry, I've just got to laugh at this pic - it's obviously taken at an angle. Look at the dirt in the corner of the frame. You could drive a Rav4 on that.
      Yup. First pic I found that had a Rover that looked somewhat good.

    3. Moderator robbyb413's Avatar
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      03-18-2011 03:52 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by EC Transplant View Post
      Looks like everyone is thinking along the same lines as I am. Question: So in what situations will the modern (independent suspension) Rovers be more capable than the solid axle vehicles?
      The situation where you've got to haul your family to soccer practice and you need the quietest ride possible to talk on your cell phone? If you can find a map of "Neverland" you'll see all the trails that an LR3 is suited for.
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    4. Member Pool Runner's Avatar
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      03-19-2011 10:09 PM #29
      Why has the G-Wagen not been posted? OP said no price cap so here you go....


    5. Member Amdek's Avatar
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      03-21-2011 12:01 PM #30
      Does MB even sell these without 20" rims and a "sporty" ride height anymore?

    6. Member Amsterdam087's Avatar
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      03-21-2011 12:19 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Pool Runner View Post
      Why has the G-Wagen not been posted?
      it hasn't been mentioned because it is not the most capable. not even close.

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      03-22-2011 02:57 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel! View Post
      Doubtful. Just too big. Mechanically magnificent, but too big for Moab.
      Factory winch.
      Arguably, a rear LSD and winch gets you further than a pair of lockers.
      5.3L Wrangler work in progress
      Quote Originally Posted by Juniper Monkeys View Post
      "Less Forethought, More Welding"

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      03-22-2011 03:46 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Amsterdam087 View Post
      it hasn't been mentioned because it is not the most capable. not even close.
      I would disagree and say it is pretty close to what has been mentioned so far. Solid front and rear axles and selectable lockers.

    9. Moderator robbyb413's Avatar
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      03-22-2011 05:29 PM #34
      Lockers and axles don't do anything if the vehicle can't get it's tires to the obstacles to begin with. The gwagen is still bested by the Wrangler Rubicon for Approcah/Breakover/Departure angles, axle clearance, and flex. Stock it's only 9 inches of axle clearance and pulls 36/25/31. vs a stock Wrangler coming in at 10 inches pulling 44/25/40.

      Stock for stock the Wrangler Rubicon really isn't going to be bested by anything that is capable of the OP's criteria in the 1st post.

      Here's a list of common competitors and their stats:

      Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4x4 (2-Door) (JK)
      Ground Clearance: 10.2"
      Approach Angle: 44.3 degrees
      Departure Angle: 40.4 degrees

      Land Rover LR3
      Ground Clearance: 9.5" (off-road mode)
      Approach Angle: 37.2 degrees (off-road mode)
      Departure Angle: 27.9 degrees (off-road mode

      HUMMER H2 (with optional air suspension)
      Ground Clearance: 9.7"
      Approach Angle: 42.8 degrees
      Departure Angle: 40.0 degrees

      Toyota 4Runner Limited 4WD 4.7L V8
      Ground Clearance: 9.1"
      Approach Angle: 30 degrees
      Departure Angle: 26 degrees (w/o tow hitch)

      HUMMER H3 Alpha (with optional 33" tires)
      Ground Clearance: 9.1"
      Approach Angle: 39.0 degrees
      Departure Angle: 36.5 degrees

      Nissan Xterra Off Road
      Ground Clearance: 9.5"
      Approach Angle: 33.2 degrees
      Departure Angle: 29.4 degrees

      Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4
      Ground Clearance: 8.3"
      Approach Angle: 35.0 degrees
      Departure Angle: 27.0 degrees
      Last edited by robbyb413; 03-22-2011 at 05:33 PM.
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      03-22-2011 05:53 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by robbyb413 View Post

      Stock for stock the Wrangler Rubicon really isn't going to be bested by anything that is capable of the OP's criteria in the 1st post.
      I agree. The Wrangler Rubicon is still more capable than all vehicles posted thus far.

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      03-23-2011 12:07 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by robbyb413 View Post
      Lockers and axles don't do anything if the vehicle can't get it's tires to the obstacles to begin with.
      Which is why, even though I'd love to own a Wrangler Rubicon, you can't overlook the performance benefit of a stock winch.



      5.3L Wrangler work in progress
      Quote Originally Posted by Juniper Monkeys View Post
      "Less Forethought, More Welding"

    12. Member Amsterdam087's Avatar
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      03-23-2011 12:15 PM #37
      the one im looking at right now has one installed from the jeep dealer.

    13. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      03-23-2011 12:33 PM #38
      In my 10 years of offroading, it is my opinion that 2 solid axles, both locked, makes a vehicle far "more capable" offroad then a winch. Winches are primarily for extraction. They don't make a rig "more capable," they are there as a safety valve for when you get in over your head.

      Besides, you can get a winch for your Rubicon right from the dealer. A buddy of mine got his Rubi with a MOPAR branded winch bumper and MOPAR branded WARN winch right out of the parts catalog.

      As for size... Moab makes overall size less of an issue, but to this NEw England boy, used to tight forest trails and trees everywhere, the idea of wheeling a Dodge Powerwagon instead of a Wrangler just seems nonsensical.

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      03-23-2011 01:55 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      In my 10 years of offroading, it is my opinion that 2 solid axles, both locked, makes a vehicle far "more capable" offroad then a winch. Winches are primarily for extraction. They don't make a rig "more capable," they are there as a safety valve for when you get in over your head..
      I don't necessarily disagree, but I think the point they are trying to make is a winch can still get you through obstacles that even a f/r locker equipped vehicle gets suck on, therefore making a winch equipped vechicle "more capable."

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      03-23-2011 01:57 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      They don't make a rig "more capable," they are there as a safety valve for when you get in over your head.
      That's a contradiction man. A winch makes an offroad rig more capable, way more capable. It's about the best tool you can have if you're stuck. Which, in 10 years experience, I'm sure you know a lot about recovery. (generalizing) Most times winching out is easier, safer, faster, than strapping up and pulling. Look at the KOH cars, winching is part of the course, doubt you're finishing the hammers without one.

      BUT... The fact that you can get a Mopar stickered Warn straight from Jeep, makes my argument pointless. It makes the 2 door Rubicon the winner hands down.

      Your last point about tight trails, I agree, and was only playing devils advocate for the winch. On that note: 2006 Rubi > 2010 Rubi.
      Do we go there though? The thread limits this to 5 years, which makes the TJ a contender...
      5.3L Wrangler work in progress
      Quote Originally Posted by Juniper Monkeys View Post
      "Less Forethought, More Welding"

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      03-23-2011 02:13 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by deucestudios View Post
      On that note: 2006 Rubi > 2010 Rubi.
      Do we go there though? The thread limits this to 5 years, which makes the TJ a contender...
      This is a tough call. Jk's have 1" larger tires (I think ?) and a sway bar disconnect from the factory. TJ's are obviously smaller, which is nicer for tighter trials, but JK's would probably be able to do the same tight trails, albeit not as easily and with possibly some body damage. On the other hand, the longer wheelbase of the JK would be better for hillclimbs.

      Tough call.

    17. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      03-23-2011 04:30 PM #42
      I think a winch is a HUGELY important thing, don't get me wrong.

      But when I think of how "capable" an offroader is, I think of it moving on under it's own power, taking you places(and back) that less "capable" rigs can't. To me, that does not mean pulling cable to drag it another 12' before turning around. Which is why I don't weigh a winch so heavily when deciding what rig is "most capable."

      Just my opinion though, and I absolutely get what you guys are saying.

    18. Moderator robbyb413's Avatar
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      03-23-2011 05:22 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by deucestudios View Post
      Which is why, even though I'd love to own a Wrangler Rubicon, you can't overlook the performance benefit of a stock winch.
      The winch will do nothing if the vehicle can't physically approach/break over/depart an obstacle without destroying it's body/drivetrain/running gear. Stock vehicles don't have beefy skid plates made to let you drag them over things with winches, even if the approach angle permits you to drag it up the obstacle safely in the first place. You're also assuming you have perfect winch points at any given time AND you're using the winch in a manner other than as directed. it's not supposed to be your go-to move to get through things as you are proposing. It's something to use in a pinch when you have no other option.

      What do you drive on the trail? Have you ever had to go down the trail with full sized rigs? Do you notice how they can't handle even the smallest of obstacles with the same agility as a smaller rig? How exactly is a winch going to solve all those issues they have? You'll just break more stuff when you put a winch on a big truck and drag it over things.
      Last edited by robbyb413; 03-23-2011 at 05:27 PM.
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    19. 03-23-2011 05:28 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      I think a winch is a HUGELY important thing, don't get me wrong.

      But when I think of how "capable" an offroader is, I think of it moving on under it's own power, taking you places(and back) that less "capable" rigs can't. To me, that does not mean pulling cable to drag it another 12' before turning around. Which is why I don't weigh a winch so heavily when deciding what rig is "most capable."

      Just my opinion though, and I absolutely get what you guys are saying.
      My train of thought is along the lines of this.

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      03-23-2011 09:01 PM #45
      I would have to say it is the jeep TJ rubicon. If you count factory options you can get a lift and I believe a winch already...

    21. Moderator robbyb413's Avatar
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      03-24-2011 09:04 AM #46
      There are a LOT of things the Jeep dealer will install - lifts, winches, body armor, a matching expedition trailer...

      Is it fair to include that stuff in the discussion though? Some of it comes right from the mopar catalog but some of it doesn't, and the things that will be installed vary be dealer. It might be more reasonable to just look it as 100% stock and exclude "dealer installed options".

      But I mean really if we're adding the dealer install options from the mopar catalog the Wrangler Rubicon is literally unstoppable. It's the only one you can roll an Expedition Trailer into the initial purchase price. I mean look at it - Dealer installed lift kit, dealer isntalled skids/body armor, dealer installed winch, dealer installed expedition trailer - give it to her, son!
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      03-24-2011 09:41 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by robbyb413 View Post
      What do you drive on the trail? Have you ever had to go down the trail with full sized rigs? Do you notice how they can't handle even the smallest of obstacles with the same agility as a smaller rig? How exactly is a winch going to solve all those issues they have? You'll just break more stuff when you put a winch on a big truck and drag it over things.
      I've had a Cherokee for the past 5 years, started having fun with YJ wrangler in '98. I know exactly what you mean, there's lots of trails that even a Cherokee is too big for, but that's Northeast wheelin. Take that to the soft sand of North Carolina, size is a non issue. Never wheeled, or even been to the PNW, but from what I've seen, it's at least similiar to the north east, as far as tight trails go. South west? Full size truck all day, for 9 out of 10 trails. Are you gonna inevitably eat the 6' rear driveshaft in the power wagon? sure. And that's why I'm agreeing that the Wrangler wins. I'm not up on all the goodies you can get new from Mopar, that's above my pay grade.

      I'm just playing devil's advocate. A nod to the Power Wagon, and Disco for having that as part of their "stock" gear was all I wanted. Put the Power Wagon against the Raptor... say which is more "capable", and don't ask "for what".
      5.3L Wrangler work in progress
      Quote Originally Posted by Juniper Monkeys View Post
      "Less Forethought, More Welding"

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      03-24-2011 11:45 AM #48
      The 5 years thing kills it a bit, but the D90 Rover is the actual answer to this question. I adore Wrangler Rubicons, and agree that if you cannot get a D90, then it is the clear answer. However, a stock D90 is a purpose built truck for exactly this. V8, solid axles, roll cage, the works. They even have sealed electronics and are serviceable with a flathead screwdriver.

      But they weren't sold in the US in the last 5 years.

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      03-24-2011 01:24 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by dbreid View Post
      The 5 years thing kills it a bit, but the D90 Rover is the actual answer to this question. I adore Wrangler Rubicons, and agree that if you cannot get a D90, then it is the clear answer. However, a stock D90 is a purpose built truck for exactly this. V8, solid axles, roll cage, the works. They even have sealed electronics and are serviceable with a flathead screwdriver.

      But they weren't sold in the US in the last 5 years.
      Wait, the only thing differing between a D90 and a Wangler is the V8. A V8 that, I might add, is only slightly more powerful then the unit in the Jeep and is 10x less dependable.

      Also Defenders have a tendency to purposely unbuild themselves at the most inappropriate times. In short, they are junk.

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      03-24-2011 01:53 PM #50
      I feel you also have to look into cost too... The jeep wrangler costs a substantial amount less for something that has an almost endless amount of aftermarket parts for it, because we all know that no one wheels a stock vehicle for very long.

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