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    Thread: Bad ECM?

    1. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-19-2011 06:41 PM #1
      Well, I have a 97 GTI VR6 with 17X,XXX miles, that is parked in the winter. Went to go start it up last week and it would turn over but not fire. I could not hear the fuel pump turn on.

      Had some time today, so I:
      Checked fuse, good.
      Checked relay, good.
      Used jumper wire ot power fuel pump, fuel pump primes.
      Checked for momentary ground while car is turned on at therminal 3 on relay bord, negative!
      Checked continuity from relay board to ECM, good.

      So according to the Bentley, my ECM "could possibly" be bad.

      Any ideas?

      I don't want to have to buy a new one...

      Thanks,

      Mason

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      03-19-2011 08:11 PM #2
      So.. you say the ECU is not taking the circuit to ground?

      Did you have 12v at the 86 pin of relay, which is the hot side of the relay coil that the ECU takes to ground?

      You could just wire the FP relay to ignition by grounding pin 3 (85) The relay will energize when ign is on. Not perfect, but it works.

    3. Member owmygulay's Avatar
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      03-19-2011 10:48 PM #3
      Does the check engine light illuminate when you turn the key on?

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      03-19-2011 11:02 PM #4
      Forgot to ask the most obvious. Do you have spark?

    5. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-20-2011 10:52 PM #5
      I was going to check for spark, but thought it was unnecessary as I have no fuel delivery.

      Yes, I have 12V at the 86 pin.

      Yes, the check engine light comes on when car is turned on.

    6. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-21-2011 09:14 PM #6
      Any other ideas?

      Is there a way to check the ECM with VAGCOM?

      Is there a fail safe way to test the ECM, so I don't have to spend money on a new one... if it is not going to solve the problem?

      Or in other words, what else should I check to save time and money?

    7. Member thomas_ambers's Avatar
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      03-21-2011 09:17 PM #7
      You could try swapping it with a friends known good ecm or if you dont have a friend post up in regionals maybe someone will help you out.

    8. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-21-2011 09:20 PM #8
      That's sounds like a good idea... if I had any friends!

      I will try posting on the regional forum... wish me luck.

    9. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 11:49 AM #9
      Well, I finally had some time to do some more testing. I believe it is the engine speed sensor (G28). The terminals were a little corroded, cleaned them up and still get a reading of ~800 ohms.

      The Bentley says that the correct operating range is 500-700 ohms, is that correct?

      Thanks again!

    10. 03-25-2011 11:57 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by nutz4vws View Post
      The Bentley says that the correct operating range is 500-700 ohms, is that correct?
      yeah...if it's out of that range it's usually toast and will cause a crank but no start. the ones i've seen fail didn't fail all at once though. you'd be able to drive the car for an x amount of time and then it would just die and not start until it sat for a bit.

    11. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 12:07 PM #11
      Thanks, just wanted to make sure the Bentley had it printed right...

      This one just quit, but the car is in storage during the winter... only ran about twice since October, and seemed fine. I also have no fuel, no spark, and good readings from the cam position sensor.

      Hooked up VagCom and found:

      17908 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17): Electrical Malfunction
      P1500 - 35-00 - -
      17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation
      P1340 - 35-00 - -

      Are these two usually paired together? As the fuel is shut off when the reading from G28 is out of spec?

      Thanks again,

      Mason

    12. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 12:09 PM #12
      I take that back, the Bentley did not have a value for the cam position sensor. It just has you test the wire from it to the ECM... Does anyone know what it should read?

    13. 03-25-2011 12:10 PM #13
      yeah, if the crank sensor (speed sensor) is shot it cuts everything. if there's a code for it, it should be replaced.

    14. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 06:25 PM #14
      Well...
      Got a used engine speed sensor from a salvage yard, I should have asked what model year they got it off of, even though I said 1997. I think I got a 1995 speed sensor... At least from what the pictures on GAP are telling me.

      It bolts up, but now I still can't start and have a boat load of fault codes:

      17908 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17): Electrical Malfunction
      P1500 - 35-00 - -
      17633 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 1 (N30): Short to Ground
      P1225 - 35-00 - -
      17634 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 2 (N31): Short to Ground
      P1226 - 35-00 - -
      17635 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 3 (N32): Short to Ground
      P1227 - 35-00 - -
      17636 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 4 (N33): Short to Ground
      P1228 - 35-00 - -
      17833 - EVAP Purge Valve (N80): Short to Ground
      P1425 - 35-00 - -
      17859 - Secondary Air Injection System: Short to Ground
      P1451 - 35-00 - -
      17637 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 5 (N83): Short to Ground
      P1229 - 35-00 - -
      17829 - Secondary Air Injection Solenoid Valve (N112): Short to Ground
      P1421 - 35-00 - -
      17638 - Fuel Injector for Cylinder 6 (N84): Short to Ground
      P1230 - 35-00 - -


      So with that said, who thinks it is the wrong sensor or the ECM? I love electrical issues!

    15. 03-25-2011 06:44 PM #15
      You will always get an engine speed sensor code if you scan with the engine off. If you were able to scan it to begin with, then probably the ecm is okay. I see a lot of posts with a long list of codes that often traces back to a faulty fuel pump relay, but you said you jumped it, so maybe try jumping it again and trying to start it then.

    16. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 06:48 PM #16
      Not sure if that will work... As I have no spark. Well before I replaced the sensor.

    17. 03-25-2011 07:24 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by 'dubber View Post
      You will always get an engine speed sensor code if you scan with the engine off.
      That's a 00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28) code though. Not what he's getting. He already ohmed it at the ECU connector and it was out of range, so it's definitely bad. When I had one go I thought the same thing when I first scanned it and erased the code. Took me days to troubleshoot it before I scanned it again and saw it wasn't the 00513 that's thrown when the car isn't running.

      The crank sensor is the same on all 2.0s. OBD1 and 2 are different on a VR6 and not interchangeable. Sounds like you got the wrong sensor.

    18. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 07:35 PM #18
      Yes, I did. I need the plastic housing one. I didn't know till I got back and removed the old one... should have done that first but was running low on time.

      I hope they have the right one and will be willing to swap them.

    19. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 08:02 PM #19
      Just plugged in old sensor to see what fault codes would go away.
      All is gone, but the fuel relay code. So that makes me a happy boy!

      I will contact the salvage yard on Monday (as they are closed on weekends) and see if they have the correct one and make a swap. If not anyone want a genuine VW engine speed sensor?

    20. 03-25-2011 08:53 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by zero. View Post
      That's a 00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28) code though. Not what he's getting. He already ohmed it at the ECU connector and it was out of range, so it's definitely bad. When I had one go I thought the same thing when I first scanned it and erased the code. Took me days to troubleshoot it before I scanned it again and saw it wasn't the 00513 that's thrown when the car isn't running.

      The crank sensor is the same on all 2.0s. OBD1 and 2 are different on a VR6 and not interchangeable. Sounds like you got the wrong sensor.
      Roger that, i misread his list and saw that g28 hanging out there, but it was part of the cam code description.

    21. Member nutz4vws's Avatar
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      03-28-2011 03:31 PM #21
      Got the correct "new" used sensor in, and all is well!

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